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AA Propose New 787-9 And 737 MAX Terms  
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2612 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 19175 times:

Just posted a while ago from Flightglobal


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...CFGFG%7Ctwitterfeed%7CFlightglobal

Quote:
American Airlines parent AMR Corp is seeking to convert orders for 20 Boeing 787-9s to a smaller variant, restore the timing of the first 787-9 delivery to 2014 and finalise a deal to buy 42 787s overall by the end of the month.

American Airlines now wants to finalise the deal with 20 787-8s and 22 787-9s, while keeping the option to buy 58 more 787s.

Interesting they want to convert 20 to the -8 version, we could finally see this order firmed up by the end of the month according to the article.


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36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18885 times:

Was there a change to the 737MAX terms as well? (Article link is unavailable now)


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User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18745 times:

This makes sense for AA since their B-767-300ERs are beginning to get up there in years of service. But what about the B-737MAXs? Does this also effect the orders for the A-319/-321s?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18692 times:
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The Dallas Morning News has the same info at http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...reamliners-in-november-2014.html/.

New terms are as follows:

● The entering into of a definitive purchase agreement with respect to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft;
● First 787 delivery moved forward to November 2014 and final delivery moved forward to September 2018;
● Certain financing commitments for Boeing 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft and certain Boeing 737-800 aircraft;
● The assumption of certain other aircraft spare parts, support and services agreements;
● A comprehensive settlement of claims among American and Boeing (including affiliates) in AMR’s and American’s bankruptcy case.


Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
But what about the B-737MAXs? Does this also effect the orders for the A-319/-321s?


American also said it and Airbus signed a definitive agreement Friday for American’s purchase of 260 aircraft from the Airbus A320 family.

[Edited 2013-01-14 15:40:50]

[Edited 2013-01-14 16:12:37]

User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5856 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18570 times:

I thought some 787-8s might happen. Kind of surprised it's a conversion rather than an additional order, though.

A 787-9 is an awful lot of plane for many of the markets the 763 serves.


User currently offlineprost From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1249 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18543 times:

It sounds like all of the pieces are coming together for their emergence from bankruptcy. I wish the employees and the new shareholders nothing but the best in their reinvigorated future.

User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2612 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 18374 times:

The flightglobal link is available again, not sure why it stopped working...

The Part about the MAX:

Quote:
The proposed deals announced today by AMR also seek to finalise a purchase agreement for 100 737-8 Max aircraft, but at reduced prices.


[Edited 2013-01-14 16:05:50]


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User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 18050 times:

Wow I am rather suprised the amount of planes converted. I'm not suprised they converted some, but 20 is a large amount. Maybe we could see a top up order from AA; they have a rather large 767 fleet, also with the range of the 787 they can cover a large amount of the globe from DFW. But 42 is a good amount too.


Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 17984 times:

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 7):
I'm not suprised they converted some, but 20 is a large amount.

I imagine it was an economies of scale thing. The -8 and -9 will share most things in common, but there is probably some -8 peculiar equipment, training, etc. that made it worthwhile to get a certain quantity to make financial sense. Plus, the larger the fleet, the more scheduling flexibility that provides for the airline across a broader segment of the overall network.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 7):
Maybe we could see a top up order from AA; they have a rather large 767 fleet, also with the range of the 787 they can cover a large amount of the globe from DFW. But 42 is a good amount too.

Absolutely. I highly doubt AA will be done at 42. I suspect that long-term the 787 (both -9 and now also -8) will be replacing not only the 767s, but also likely a large chunk of the (if not the entire) 777-200ER fleet. By the time the last of these 787s arrives in September 2018, AA's oldest 777 will be just under 20 years old.


User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 17546 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):

So AA could eventually have over 100 787's eventually if that statement is true. I can imagine they can open many, many new routes with these planes.

I wonder when carriers will schedule 787's on domestic service, beside the training and fleet familiarization.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineseahawks7757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 17124 times:

What slots were they able to get for the 787-8? Any idea when we could see its first one roll out of the factory?

Also read a tweet somewhere they are ordering 2 more 77W's, I am sure all the details will come out at the earnings call.


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 492 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 16517 times:

Quoting seahawks7757 (Reply 11):
Also read a tweet somewhere they are ordering 2 more 77W's, I am sure all the details will come out at the earnings call.

Yeah I read that too on yahoo.

Link:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...es-firms-orders-787-003414620.html



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 16476 times:

I'm guessing a 787-8 sooner is better at this point than a 787-9 later. Boeing hasn't even begun to build a -9 yet, have they, never mind providing a firm EIS date?


Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16329 times:
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Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 13):
Boeing hasn't even begun to build a -9 yet, have they, never mind providing a firm EIS date?

Parts for the first 787-9 are arriving at PAE and assembly will commence later this year. EIS with Air New Zealand is planned for next year.


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15865 times:

Those slots were given to AA when they did a hand shake deal on getting the 787's a couple of years back when a lot of people said that Boeing would have 787 slots to give to AA till 2018. Great to see...

User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15820 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 8):

Absolutely. I highly doubt AA will be done at 42. I suspect that long-term the 787 (both -9 and now also -8) will be replacing not only the 767s, but also likely a large chunk of the (if not the entire) 777-200ER fleet. By the time the last of these 787s arrives in September 2018, AA's oldest 777 will be just under 20 years old.

That's what many expect for UAL as well. With one of the largest 772 fleets, UA will need every one of their 50 options plus more to replace the 763, 764 and 772 with the 788 and 789. If Boeing does offer the 78J, then I could see the entire widebody fleet for AA being 788 and 77W. UAL will have the A359.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13601 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
● The entering into of a definitive purchase agreement with respect to Boeing 737 MAX aircraft;
Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
American also said it and Airbus signed a definitive agreement Friday for American’s purchase of 260 aircraft from the Airbus A320 family.

IMO Airbus did correct by not placing the NEO from AA as firm back in July 2011.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2612 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13141 times:

Reuters is saying that the order is firm, can anyone confirm this?

Link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...lines-planes-idUSBRE90E01220130115

[Edited 2013-01-15 01:48:24]


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User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13215 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12872 times:

Interesting, I did not know Boeing have 787 delivery slots for 2014 available.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2223 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12808 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 18):

Reuters is saying that the order is firm, cant anyone confirm this?

Link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...30115

AA and Boeing haven't come out with any press release, I suppose this will happen later today.

I can't seem to understand if the 2 additional 77Ws are new orders or conversions from the 772 order, which means AA now have 15 77Ws on order and either 3 or 5 772s still left.

The 787 order seems to confirm that the 763s will gradually phase out of the fleet quite quickly, unless AA decides to use the 787s for growth and 763s for a role similar to what the A300s used to do. I think either will depend on the state of the economy once they start receiving the 787s.


User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2223 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12787 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Interesting, I did not know Boeing have 787 delivery slots for 2014 available.

It had been rumoured for quite a long time (a couple of years), that AA and Boeing had a gentlemen's agreement whereby AA could get a 787 within 18-20 months of firming their order. There were a few people who questioned whether the Airbus order might have led to this agreement being rescinded, although based on this order it seems this was obviously not the case.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13215 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12770 times:

Quote:
It had been rumoured for quite a long time (a couple of years)

Thanks, I totally missed that information.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12635 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
American also said it and Airbus signed a definitive agreement Friday for American’s purchase of 260 aircraft from the Airbus A320 family.

I wonder what that means exactly  

"We have signed a non-binding agreement which dictates terms for when we sign an order"?

"We have signed an MOU which covers terms"?

"We have signed an order"?

The way they've put it reminds me of the political dance of "talking about talking"  


User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2223 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12559 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 23):
I wonder what that means exactly

It means firming up the 320 NEO part which was never firm.

And renegotiating the 319/321 part to more favorable terms, as they did yesterday with Boeing for the 737-800 and 737 MAX orders.

It does strike me as somewhat odd that they are renegotiating what were landmark deals at the time, they had already told everyone back then that the terms they got were extremely favorable.

This makes me think that what was actually renegotiated for the 320/737s deals was linked more to financing terms than anything else (like the prices themselves).


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4090 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12526 times:

Quoting runway23 (Reply 24):
It means firming up the 320 NEO part which was never firm.

Thats what I am basically asking - is there any indication that it is actually "firm"? The wording of the indication doesn't fill me with confidence - "definitive agreement", whats that really?


25 jfk777 : Great news for AA to solidify its 787 order with some 787-8 to go with the 787-9's. Its an encouraging sign of AA's future to fund a new long haul fle
26 ckfred : When AA announced it's intent to buy 787s, the agreement with Boeing to confirm the order was predicated on AA getting a new contract with the pilots
27 B777ER : At least know we know were DL will be buying their next used aircraft from while AA and UA modernize!
28 B377 : While the agreement on all of the revisions to the original orders, as well as new aircraft added, is finalized between AA/Boeing/Airbus, there is st
29 LDVAviation : Here is how you know it is "firm". AA is going to ask the bankruptcy court to approve the agreements. Indeed, the agreement with Boeing constitutes n
30 moo : Thank you, but you aren't saying anything more than others before you - i found the SEC filing an hour ago which answered my question tho.
31 yyz717 : aerotransport.org is still showing 13 77W's (incl 2 delivered) and 6 772ER's still on order. Current order mix for non-neo A32x is 15x A319's and 116
32 brilondon : This is not really a surprise. It really shows the confidence in the Boeing product despite the recent events that has been in the news with the 787.
33 american 767 : Yes, JFK-SFO now sees not more than 2 daily 762 flights, with the remaining 2 being 763s. It looks like SFO will stop seeing the 762 before LAX will.
34 Post contains links redrooster3 : Today, AA was approved by a Judge to further finalized these aircraft options. This is a major step to AA finalizing their Boeings order. 100 737 MAX
35 Post contains images BD338 : quality reporting....."..granted American Airlines’ motion to acquire a bunch of Airbus and Boeing airplanes in coming years"...the reporter went,
36 yyz717 : Another 762 was retired on Jan 17th. Now 10 active 762's. That's great news. Also good to see the 787 order split. I guess they either want less capa
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