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Southwest To Take Over LAX T-1; US Air Moves  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11638 times:

Per January 14 LAWA board meeting, Southwest Airlines and LAWA have reached an agreement whereby Southwest will invest approximately $400.2mil on a wide ranging renovation of the near 30-year old terminal-1 facility at LAX.

Planned renovations include:
o Revised passenger security screening checkpoint
o Design and implemention of new inline baggage sorting system
o Upgrading holdrooms and associated building infrastructure
o Refurbishing the arrival/baggage claim area
o Replace passenger boarding bridges
o Renovate airline support office space
o Replacement of ramp paving sections and associated fuel hydrant pit locations.
o Proprietary improvements include branded improvements unique to Southwest's operational needs

To facilitate the renovations SWA will cover $14.7mil in expenses to relocate US Airways from T-1 to T-3.

Once complete by July 2014 Southwest and AirTran Airways will become sole tenants of T-1.


I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.


News story:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_2...st-lax-plan-400-million-renovation

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11640 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Interesting. I like how the LAWA representative quoted felt the need to "manage expectations" on just how nice this $400M could make T1. Nonetheless, improvements are obviously needed - with the checkpoint first and foremost. I have on multiple occasions driven by T1 and seen the line to check-in and/or go through security literally stretch out the door and down the sidewalk. That's ridiculous. Also interesting to see what US will get at T3 - same four gates? Exclusive or preferential use? Space for a USAirways club?

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23023 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11453 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Nonetheless, improvements are obviously needed - with the checkpoint first and foremost. I have on multiple occasions driven by T1 and seen the line to check-in and/or go through security literally stretch out the door and down the sidewalk.

Agreed. What's the difference in T-1 as opposed to the others? Is it just a lack of space at the top of the steps? I've never been able to put my finger on it.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Planned renovations include:

I am disappointed that they are not doing anything about the too narrow ticketing lobby, but I imagine that would be very costly. Removing the CTX machines should help some, though.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.

Maybe only a net gain of 3 if they close 4A. It's not going to be real useful once the 735s are gone.

[Edited 2013-01-15 08:07:19]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineboeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11450 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):

One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day? Is it because LAX is such a valuable market, and they are trying very hard to please their dividend miles customers there?

Well anyways this news seems good for FL/WN. They can really make themselves a large market out of LAX for themselves. I think this is one of those things that shows WN isn't the carrier it was ten years ago, I highly doubt anyone would think WN would have their own terminal in LAX



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11370 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Per January 14 LAWA board meeting, Southwest Airlines and LAWA have reached an agreement whereby Southwest will invest approximately $400.2mil on a wide ranging renovation of the near 30-year old terminal-1 facility at LAX.

Great news for LAX and Southwest!   $400 million should really bring great improvements to T-1.

Not so good news for those who must compete with Southwest at LAX.    They can beef up substantially with 4 more gates.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11369 times:

No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11015 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I guess we will finally see SWA beef up LAX beyond its static 110-120 departures it has been stuck at the last 10-years having only 11 gates. This will bring into play another 4 gates for the airline.

Great news to see WN get additional gates. I have no doubt they will put the three or four additional gates to use right away. It looks like WN will only be on the hook for about $16 million of the $400 million (assuming the city council approves this).

Where do you guys think we will see new flights to? 3 or 4 additional gates should be another 30 daily flights or so all said and done. They have most of the short-haul well covered out of LAX. SEA and PDX are big holes, but I doubt WN will ever be interested in those. I have no doubt DAL will come online once Wright goes away. MCO is the largest WN station unserved from LAX, but that ties up a lot of aircraft time (SAN is also one of the largest but I don't see WN entering LAX-SAN). Would WN consider LAX-OKC/TUL? Not sure if those really need another carrier. Possibly LAX-OMA/MSP/IND (I'm going to guess unlikely)? HNL is a given when/if it comes online as station. Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN? Those seem like reasonable candidates if not.

Current LAX WN routes:

OAK
SFO
SJC
SMF
RNO
LAS
PHX
TUS
ABQ
SLC
DEN
SAT
AUS
HOU
MCI
STL
MDW
MKE
BNA
BWI
ATL
MSY



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23023 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10928 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN? Those seem like reasonable candidates if not.

FIS is going to be a problem on those. It'll be interesting to see how international flying at places like PHX, LAS and LAX, where the FIS gates are separate from WN gates, shakes out. At least at PHX, they are in the same terminal.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10869 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Possibly LAX-OMA/MSP/IND (I'm going to guess unlikely)?

WN flew LAX-IND as recently as a few years ago, but dropped it in the NW IND focus city days and when FL jumped on the route with redeyes.

FL left, and DL is down to less-than-daily service on the route (very poor service for an airport like IND). I could see WN restarting LAX-IND with these "new" gates.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10772 times:

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day? Is it because LAX is such a valuable market, and they are trying very hard to please their dividend miles customers there?

In its heyday at T-1 in the early 90s, US operated nonstop to:

BWI 3x/day
CLT 3x
DAY 1x
IND 3x
MCI 3x
PHL 2x
PIT 5x
TPA 1x
SFO hourly

(Note: occasional weekend exceptions, and some flights were operated with 762s.)

Plus they still had plenty of other intra-California routes and Vegas from the PSA acquisition. It was a substantial operation which necessitated a lounge. I'm surprised it's lasted this long, though.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10695 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Would WN consider LAX-OKC/TUL? Not sure if those really need another carrier.

I'm not sure WN going into OKC-LAX would be a good idea...for OKC. Though it would help boost the OKC market, but I don't see the company going for it over routing people through PHX, LAS, and DEN.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10291 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Also interesting to see what US will get at T3 - same four gates? Exclusive or preferential use? Space for a USAirways club?

US Airways T-3 leases are not final yet, however I understand it will be use of 3 gates. No word on the lounge yet, but considering VX took over the former TW/AS facility, it might be very costly to build something from scratch now.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I like how the LAWA representative quoted felt the need to "manage expectations" on just how nice this $400M could make T1.

Yes $400mil does not buy much these days.

For example tha baggage system alone has a $60mil price tag

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Agreed. What's the difference in T-1 as opposed to the others? Is it just a lack of space at the top of the steps? I've never been able to put my finger on it.

Volume volume volume. With the high frequency of service, T-1 handles and incredible count of hourly passenger.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day?

They have shrunk down to mere 14 flights currently, they a tiny image of historic past.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
It looks like WN will only be on the hook for about $16 million of the $400 million (assuming the city council approves this).

Well its actually a bit more complex.

SWA fronts the money.

Then LA City buys back the non proprietary general facility refurbishments at max value of $222.4mil.
LAWA option to buy back, or provide rent credit of $146.9mil for the proprietery parts of the refurbishment
TSA throws in $29.6mil

But - SWA rent goes up $9.5mil the first year with up to 4% escalation in subsequent years over the 10-year term.

Also SWA agrees to drop litigation pending since 2007 over airport fee tariff.


But at the end of the day, its a great deal for SWA as they gain some much breathing room, and ability to expand LAX flying.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10290 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):

I think you pretty much got it right. I say that WN at LAX definitely needs a Florida nonstop, either MCO or FLL. Especially since it can take 13 hours to fly LAX-SJU including connections when that starts up in April. WN also needs a EWR nonstop. SEA/PDX is another hole in the network, but I think there's some unspoken agreement with AS that WN doesn't fly these routes (who knows).

WN at LAX can also do several redeyes to MCO, EWR, MDW, and BWI. Not to mention LAX being the springboard to Hawaii flights.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN?

I believe they are, yes.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
FIS is going to be a problem on those.

Actually, T1 is in a DREAM spot for FIS. T1 has gates 1 and 2 that are stand alone gates which are their own rooms. Convert one or both of those gates to Immigration! Each room is plenty big enough for 200 people and each gate could only be used one at a time, so it wouldn't get crowded. T1 is in a perfect situation for this.

Quoting diverdave (Reply 4):
Great news for LAX and Southwest! $400 million should really bring great improvements to T-1.

Heck, a coat of paint would be an incredible improvement. I'll even donate the can.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I like how the LAWA representative quoted felt the need to "manage expectations" on just how nice this $400M could make T1

Yeah, seriously. $400M?! That'll turn T1 into a palace. Once they paint, carpet, and light the terminal, it'll already look like a whole new place. It'll also need new jetways..... badly. Each one may be $1M or so. Considering nothing has been done to T1 since 1984, I think LAX is getting off easy with "only" $400M.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10045 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 12):
Considering nothing has been done to T1 since 1984,

In fairness T-1 has had atleast 3-4 rounds of smaller renovations over the years.

The lobby has changed (got deeper).
Security check point got enlarged
Elevators and escalators changes out
Stores and restaurants got moved and enlarged
New floor tiles up by gate areas
New bathrooms
Updated baggage system
Refurbished back and ramp offices

Also US Airways funded almost $25mil of work after the America West merger, including a lounge redo.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9990 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
They have shrunk down to mere 14 flights currently, they a tiny image of historic past.

Is PSA part of that historic past, or are you referring to America West (or both)?

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 12):
Heck, a coat of paint would be an incredible improvement. I'll even donate the can.

 


User currently onlinedabpit From United States of America, joined May 2012, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9861 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
In its heyday at T-1 in the early 90s, US operated nonstop to:

BWI 3x/day
CLT 3x
DAY 1x
IND 3x
MCI 3x
PHL 2x
PIT 5x
TPA 1x
SFO hourly

It is amazing how US went from having 5x a day to PIT when they no longer fly PIT to LAX and UA now flies that route with 3 flights a WEEK!!!


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9740 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
T6 for a US move

I don't think they would fit. With UA/DL/AS over there its pretty full on space.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
Are all the route authorities used up on LAX-SJD/MEX/CUN? Those seem like reasonable candidates if not.

Yes.

AS/UA have MEX
DL and.....VX? has CUN
AA and....UA have SJD



yep.
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9305 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.

When AA bought TWA, they kept flights at T-3 for a while. They were O&D flights like MCO-LAX, but did have a shuttle bus that would take you to T-4 on the sterile side.

But I do believe this could signal that the AA-US tie-up is much further along than both parties are letting on and US sees no real threat of ever having to occupy T-3.

$15mil seems like a pittance to move, but if they don't plan on moving but dissolving, it's free money.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
US Airways T-3 leases are not final yet, however I understand it will be use of 3 gates. No word on the lounge yet, but considering VX took over the former TW/AS facility, it might be very costly to build something from scratch now.

If US does stay independent, it would be cheaper to make a deal with VX for lounge access. US and VX don't really compete anyway.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlinen515cr From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
o Revised passenger security screening checkpoint

LONG overdue. The TSA checkpoint in T-1 is a major bottleneck.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9147 times:

Quoting diverdave (Reply 14):
Is PSA part of that historic past, or are you referring to America West (or both)?

More the recent past. US East is much smaller at LAX than before.

Even America West is virtually gone from LAX. No more LAS, and PHX is mere 5-6x daily.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

So no FIS facilities for T-1? He I was thinking the WN wound be able to start some nice little international routes from LAX.

Places like GUA, SAL would do well.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9025 times:

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 3):
One thing I find interesting is that US operates a club out of LAX; with only four gates how many flights do they have there per day? Is it because LAX is such a valuable market, and they are trying very hard to please their dividend miles customers there?

That lounge is also available to any WN passengers who have the right color AMEX card. I spent several hours there last Saturday waiting for a WN flight connecting from NZ in Terminal 2. I'll really miss that lounge.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
FIS is going to be a problem on those. It'll be interesting to see how international flying at places like PHX, LAS and LAX, where the FIS gates are separate from WN gates, shakes out. At least at PHX, they are in the same terminal.

Since T-2 (with full FIS) is right next door, could they connect T-1 and T-2 airside and then land incoming non-domestic flights at T-2, off load pax and then tow the plane (a 30 second trip) back to T-1 for boarding?


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8879 times:

WN at LAX is a case study in gate utilization. They have incredible utilization of those gates. Any time you see the terminal, there are no more than 1 or 2 empty gates, which is amazing with WN’s short turn times. I am sure the extra gates will be used.

I am also guessing that US will appreciate going into the much quieter T3. Now that AS is gone, it is really quite with just VX as the primary tenant (along with JetBlue, Spirit and Virgin Australia). T1 has more gates than any other terminal and getting in and out of the terminal is a mess. It’s even better that they get to move and have WN pay for it. I am somewhat surprised that US never moved to T2 once Northwest/Delta moved out. With AS in T6, I guess T3 is the best spot.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23023 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 22):
I am sure the extra gates will be used.

I think so, but I don't know that the flight count will go up as much as some seem to assume. LAX has extremely high utilization, and adding 20 flights or so would put LAX pretty much in line with other similarly-sized stations as far as utilization is concerned.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7950 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 5):
No surprise here at all...this was coming for a while...the only question was going to be where was US going to move? T3 really surprises me on this one though, I would have expected T2 or T6 for a US move. Of course if the AA merger happens, then T3 likely won't happen and it will be a straight to T4 for US.

I don't think that there is room at T4 with AA there. I was through there after Christmas and every gate was in use and the terminal was packed with "masses of the great unwashed."



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
25 aaway : That "quiet" will likely be short lived. In it's agreement with LAWA, AS has a clause that allows it to request relocation of both Allegiant and Fron
26 Roseflyer : Frontier has about 5 flights, so that is one gate. US using 4 gates for their 15 or so additional flights will still be far less than what AS had in
27 aaway : Touche'. At its height, the AS / VX combined represented.... +/- 140 movements(?) Nevertheless, the current day doldrums that afflict T-3 will ebb aw
28 FWAERJ : AA does plan on moving some international flights to the new TBIT, which will be linked with T4. Perhaps that will free up some space.
29 SFOHORIZON : Has this been confirmed? I have never been able to verify whether this is happening or not. Can anyone point me to some documentation?
30 laca773 : I don't think so. As it is, I believe AA is at capacity or very close to it. They may have to do the same they did when they had the two failed merge
31 LAXLocal : Any idea as to the date that US makes their official move to T3 ? I don't believe the article states this. LAXLocal
32 PHLwok : I'll be glad if I never have to deal with T1 again. Just not having to deal with security there will be a plus. The restrooms are pretty dire as well.
33 dlramp4life : But on opposite ends. WN operates on the south side of the airport while the FIS area is on the north side. Depending on what time their "internation
34 apodino : I thought Southwest actually operated a couple of gates on the High B pier (International) already, even before International...but I could be wrong.
35 Cubsrule : They do not, but I think the most likely scenario is a couple of WN gates in that pier to avoid towing because, as you point out: I agree with you ab
36 barney captain : You are correct. It's been several years, but I definitely remember pulling in to the Southeast gate on the B concourse (B-17?) in the past.
37 Post contains links ScottB : You are correct; WN used a few of the high-B gates at PHX before the S2 (D-gates) concourse in Terminal 4 opened in 2005: http://web.archive.org/web/
38 crAAzy : As mentioned above AA did operate flights out of T3 after the TWA take over so it wouldn't be unheard of for it to happen again. I also agree that it'
39 Wingtips56 : IIRC, AA also had moved the former AirCal flights from T1 to T3 as well, and connections were a pain, as it continued to be with TW, QQ and AS codesha
40 aaway : The original plan was to build a T-3 / TBIT connector somewhat concurrent with that of a T-4 / TBIT connector. However, as of now, the T-3 connector
41 wn676 : The FIS gates, with the exception of B22, are all common-use, so I think they would just use one of those. WN would definitely have to term and tow du
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