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ANA B787 Emergency Landing and Fleet Grounding  
User currently offlineeksath From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1317 posts, RR: 25
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62493 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
ARTICLE EDITOR

Just breaking...

"ANA-operated Boeing 787 makes emergency landing, smoke seen-NHK

Jan 16 (Reuters) - A Boeing 787 operated by All Nippon Airways Co made an emergency landing in Takamatsu in western Japan after smoke appeared in the Dreamliner cabin, public broadcaster NHK reported on Wednesday."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...6/boeing-ana-idUST9N09U05C20130116

[Edited 2013-01-15 16:42:03]


World Wide Aerospace Photography
300 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62390 times:

This is not good.

Grabbing some popcorn for this one. People say that as an expression, but I am literally going to make popcorn because a whole bunch of people will have a whole lot to say about this through the night and it's going to get interesting.



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62330 times:

Everyday it's a new problem with this airplane. WTF Boeing?!

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20334 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62280 times:

If it's true that there was smoke again, this is bad. That said, let's wait and see what actually happened. More than one flaming wreck has been reported initially by the news media that wound up being a blown tire or IFSD or something else mundane.

User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1383 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62199 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
If it's true that there was smoke again

Interesting too, if it was again battery-related, as S.Ray from Bloomberg tweeted:

"NHK, Japan's public broadcaster, says that a Boeing 787 flown by ANA had an emergency landing; battery problem signalled, smoke seen in jet."

Still early.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3667 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62127 times:

"Smoke in the cabin" never sounds good, but it can have its benign causes (certain engine or AC system issues, for example). Best to wait for more info.


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 62122 times:

PR wise another bad day for the 787 but there is not really enough information available right now to judge how serious, or not, this incident is.

User currently offlineBau From Italy, joined Oct 2009, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 61985 times:

Looking at flightradar 24 it seems like It could be flight NH692 UBJ-HND, reg: JA804A.
http://fr24.com/2013-01-15/23:38/ANA692

[Edited 2013-01-15 17:10:20]

User currently offlinebaldwin471 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 61979 times:

Can't jump to conclusions and no-one is saying this plane is not fit to fly, but even some of you boeing fanboy's need to acknowledge that these problems are not just teething. They are more than that. I'm still looking forwards to my first trip on QR's 788 next week.

User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 61811 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

I'm a huge 787 guy, and it pains me to say it. But they need to really start getting serious here. They have to find the problem and fix it quick. Or else the aviation authorities are going to resort to something a little more serious. This has went from a teething issue to a big issue.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3667 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 61824 times:

Evacuated using slides:



NHK story (in Japanese): http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20130116/t10014825641000.html

Not the photo the 787 needed right now.

This is also giving NHK the excuse to run stories like this: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20130116/t10014825561000.html

That story goes into the history of the 787's problems. In Japan, this kind of thing can be very damaging, and so far Japan is the 787's biggest customer.

[Edited 2013-01-15 17:17:03]


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineRicknRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 61784 times:

First of all, is it the more probable galley overheating something in the microwave type of thing. Could be something worse, but it's always nice to get some facts first.

User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 61483 times:

From BBC:

"ANA said that there was an error message in the cockpit citing a battery malfunction.

However, it would not confirm or deny reports that there was smoke in the cockpit or in the cabin"


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3667 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 61450 times:

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 12):
However, it would not confirm or deny reports that there was smoke in the cockpit or in the cabin

Look at the photo above - a pilot (especially not an ANA pilot) is not going to evacuate a plane on the tarmac using slides solely due to a battery malfunction notification. According to NHK, this also closed the runway.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 61339 times:
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Lets wait to get something official from ANA. They are pretty level headed and will check things out before releasing information. There could be a ton of reasons for the diversion/landing - most having nothing to do with a "thermal event"   

User currently offlinersmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 61248 times:

Maybe ANA doesn't know how to maintain this aircraft... seems only ANA is having the bulk of the problems.


Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 61246 times:

I am truly surprised to see all this teething problems for the 787, considering how much time Boeing had to work on the plane and its systems. Systems not directly causing the almost 4 years delays should hence had reached a higher level of maturity.


SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3667 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 61036 times:

Just a bit more info - in the photo above, that is the hold line for Takamatsu's only runway, so he cleared the runway and immediately evacuated. Despite that, the runway is closed (I'm guessing to allow emergency vehicles to work, and passengers to remain safe).

Also, apparently this happened 16 minutes after departure.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60967 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 15):
Maybe ANA doesn't know how to maintain this aircraft... seems only ANA is having the bulk of the problems.

That statement is not at all accurate. ANA is the largest operator of the 787. They had their hands on this plane before anyone else and haven't had that many issues with the a/c. We need to wait to see what took place but lets just hope this wasn't a repeat of the JL issue in BOS.

ANA was able to quickly divert and land this a/c on a domestic flight. This option isn't available for UA (for example) on their LAX to NRT route, especially eastbound.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60814 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 4):
Interesting too, if it was again battery-related, as S.Ray from Bloomberg tweeted:

"NHK, Japan's public broadcaster, says that a Boeing 787 flown by ANA had an emergency landing; battery problem signalled, smoke seen in jet."

Hi Flood,

Just to remind you that battery fires in flight will not lead to smoke in the cabin, have you not read the other thread?

Cheers

BV



BV
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1383 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60823 times:

According to Reuters, ANA has grounded its 787 fleet for "emergency inspection".

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60766 times:

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 15):

Maybe ANA doesn't know how to maintain this aircraft... seems only ANA is having the bulk of the problems.

"Only" ANA...and also JAL. Oh yeah, and UA, too. I love Boeing, and think the 787 is a phenomenal aircraft but this is getting ridiculous. PR statements and pressers only go so far. Figure it out, already Boeing...

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60748 times:

I wonder if anyone has done a correlation between which aircraft are having issues and those that were subject to major reworking and long delays in a semi finished condition - or is that all of them currently in service?

My gut feel is that the long delays and reworking of certain aircraft may well contributed in some way to systems not operating correctly and appliances deteriorating before the planes actually got to be used.

I am no engineer, so it is a layman's view, what do you professionals think?


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60679 times:

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 15):
Maybe ANA doesn't know how to maintain this aircraft... seems only ANA is having the bulk of the problems.

Really? Some other airlines have had some pretty bad issues:

JL

Japan Airlines Is Smoking Up At BOS Part 2 (by jetblueguy22 Jan 8 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Another Fuel Leak On JAL 787 (by 71Zulu Jan 13 2013 in Civil Aviation)

UA

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/united...-makes-emergency-landing-1C7423108

Yes, ANA may be experiencing the bulk of the problems....and they will continue to do so because they have a larger amount of frames delivered to them AND they are the older ones. First planes to fly experience the problems first unfortunately.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20334 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 60670 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 18):
That statement is not at all accurate. ANA is the largest operator of the 787. They had their hands on this plane before anyone else and haven't had that many issues with the a/c. We need to wait to see what took place but lets just hope this wasn't a repeat of the JL issue in BOS.

Actually, I hope it is exactly that. If both incidents can be traced to the same battery, then the battery is the problem and the solution is to change battery types in future aircraft. A bit of a pain, but not insurmountable.

If the cause is wholly unrelated, then that would be more indicative of pervasive design and manufacturing flaws with the 787 and that would, IMHO, be a far worse situation.


25 Post contains images flood : My bad Reports are currently all over the place... cockpit smoke, cabin smoke... it could be the smoke was only visible upon landing. Maybe no smoke
26 smolt : Radio News reports that one woman was taken to the hospital by ambulance after emergency evacuation complaining her back hurts. Also says ANA decided
27 ordwaw : I was watching today a documentary about SW111, Smoke in the Cockpit. One of the aftermaths of this flight was a directive to treat any unknown smoke
28 SonomaFlyer : The BOS incident was described and appeared to be a battery fire. I.E. the battery itself was involved and given its a Lithium Ion battery, that is a
29 RicknRoll : I would rephrase that to read "should not lead to smoke". The design intent is that they will not, real life events may prove otherwise.
30 777fan : Sounds like a prudent course of action that frankly, I'm surprised hadn't already been ordered by ANA or JAL after the BOS fiasco. I wonder how/if th
31 DocLightning : Not good. Not good at all for Boeing. I hope the FAA doesn't ground the fleet.
32 F9animal : Guys! This is totally normal. Its a new airplane. Things like this happen. Probably another arc or battery containment. Nothing big.
33 DocLightning : And what financial impact it will have on Boeing. It's 6PM in Seattle right now and I bet that some high-ranking Boeing execs who just got home are h
34 Post contains links boacvc10 : just noted all news sources report ANA has grounded entire 787 fleet for inspections. news conf. at 0230 gmt ? Reuters
35 Wolbo : Perhaps, but it was apparently a battery malfunction notification plus reports of a strange smell. It's not unthinkable that the pilots put two and t
36 Post contains links hnl2bos : Sounds like ANA is grounding their fleet: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...anding-amid-battery-indicator.html Whoops I see its a repost. Anyways
37 wedgetail737 : It's one thing to have the Lithium Ion battery to catch fire on the ground...it's a much more severe incident when one catches fire in flight. ANA is
38 Stitch : If smoke did appear in the cabin, it would be helpful to know when it did so and how much. In cruise, there should be no smoke due to the cabin air-fl
39 spacecadet : Either way, it wouldn't apply in Japan. But smoke in the cabin, unless it's from some clearly identifiable source, would never be treated as "contain
40 Post contains links AeroWesty : Video report in English from Japan's NHK: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20130116_13.html
41 Post contains links 777fan : Tell that to Boeing, the FAA, the JAA, QR, UA, etc. For the memory-deficient, the Chicago Tribune provides this rundown of incidents (some 'normal',
42 SonomaFlyer : This to me is the most likely scenario. Battery malfunction msg combined with "smell" (likely reported by F/A)=divert and evac ASAP. In this age of i
43 TheSultanOfWing : Either way, it would have been quite uncomfortable if this were to happen somewhere over water still a few hours flying away from the nearest airport
44 Stitch : F9animal is being sarcastic / trolling the thread, 777fan. He's on record as saying the 787 fleet should be grounded worldwide as unsafe.
45 ikramerica : Again, this happens and life goes on, usually rather quickly. 757 fleet grounded at AA for inspection. MD80 fleet grounded at AA for inspection. MD80
46 PITingres : I'd see that as good news. If they are inspecting then it is presumably inspecting for something specific, known, and fixable. If the reg number was
47 a380900 : Well, at least the slides do work. I'm not sure you read the time it took to complete the program the right way: they were not taking their time to ma
48 CYLW : I don't think any crew would order an emergency evacuation based on a smell. Emergency evacs are dangerous in their own right. Injuries are common on
49 smolt : I saw the burned-out lithium ion battery of JAL 787 in the internet. It does not allow us much optimistic view. I wonder this is the first time for li
50 777fan : Thanks - the flu apparently has affected my sarcasm detection system...in either case, the link will help jog other users' memories. 777fan
51 SCQ83 : Is this the first 787 with an emergency evacuation on a commercial flight?
52 rampbro : I wonder the same thing. I just don't want to crunch all the numbers. Another question is how many hours do these aircraft have in service at this po
53 azncsa4qf744er : Rumor has it ANA just announced grounding their fleet of B787-8, can any insider confirm?
54 Post contains images PITingres : When you ship your digital camera or cell phone it's not in a containment box designed to contain a battery fire. The 787 battery IS in a containment
55 spacecadet : Oh it would be much more at this point. This plane, if the reg is what people are saying it is, has been in service for a year on domestic runs all o
56 Post contains links PHX787 : http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...kes-emergency-landing-in-takamatsu Not good. Boeing needs to figure this out. Apparently by next week the minis
57 ikramerica : Over-reaction out of fear is not unknown to pilots. Over-reaction/mis-reading the situation is a main cause of pilot error. At this point, all the hy
58 Post contains links ThomasCook : The moderators just deleted my separate topic on this as apparently a fleet grounding and an emergency landing are the same topic...right...; http://
59 Post contains images 9w748capt : Why "episode" in the thread title? Makes it seem like this is reality TV or something. Oh wait, I suppose it kind of is
60 Post contains links ZKOJH : Sky News are reporting ANA have grounded all 17 dream-liners now, What is going on? did we have so many problems with the A380? http://news.sky.com/st
61 PHX787 : When the 380 suffered those engine problems they were briefly grounded too.
62 a380900 : In one word: no. The entire 787 has had more issues than the A380. The "flying" part of the A380 has always been sound and was only 6 months late or
63 rsmith6621a : By this time tomorrow the FAA will ground all 787s until Boeing fixes all issues with this aircraft.
64 AFGMEL : Grounding the whole fleet sounds like ANA are worried. I am all for pilots erring on the side of extreme caution when it comes to smoke and fires. Nob
65 SSTeve : I assume to make clear it's a new incident.
66 eksath : The way things have been going over the last week or so, it seems that this is a serialized drama (either imagined or actual) hence I used the term "
67 spacecadet : I would be very careful about even appearing to accuse ANA pilots of overreacting. The pressure in Japan is so far in the opposite direction that thi
68 Post contains images PHX787 : In the air currently is the ANA flight from SEA and one en route to FRA. Anyone know if that return flight is going to happen or is it just going to r
69 Post contains links bioyuki : JL is reportedly grounding their fleet of 788s as well: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...o-ground-entire-dreamliner-fleets/
70 Post contains images a300 : I flew on two of UAL 's 787s this month (LAX-IAH-LAX). Both aircraft had been delivered less than a month before. I was generally unimpressed by the i
71 flood : At this point the extent of the grounding only appears to cover the necessary time for fleet-wide inspections. Jon O tweeted that ANA hasn't decided
72 bioyuki : I'm not surprised either considering this is Japanese airlines we're talking about...出る杭は打たれる: the nail that sticks out gets hammered
73 AA94 : ANA According to ANA, their entire fleet of 787s is grounded until further notice. Once NH203 reaches FRA, it will remain on ground there. It will no
74 Post contains images a36001 : O boy! It's one thing to have EIS teething trouble, they are expected, it is however IMHO a very different thing to have smoke in cabin, emergency lan
75 ordwaw : I know it is sarcastic ... yet having seen the same message in a second or third thread within a week or so makes you think that some of us enthusias
76 PHX787 : Will NH/Japan's MoT send someone to FRA? Yomiuri is saying this is indefinite. We could be talking about a 2-3 week grounding potentially.[Edited 2013
77 ChrisNH : I agree. But I had one Boeing apologist declare that we should expect these teething problems EVEN THOUGH the plane was YEARS late and was flying tes
78 PHX787 : Looks like the forums are back and the thread was renamed. Any more updates? I would like to rant and rave about how poor USAToday, FOX, and MSNBC are
79 Post contains links laxboeingman : http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/travel...gency-landing/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Here is another link. This is serious and not the first battery problem for
80 Cubsrule : How many teething problems are acceptable? Is the 777 a bad airplane because it had a very rough EIS?
81 kanban : Hey an A333 had smoke in the cabin today.. in Tokyo no less.. where's the hysteria?
82 StuckInCA : I thought he was a Boeing employee too. Maybe my memory is fading. Hope they sort this out. Smoke and fire (not this flight so far as I know) are not
83 ely747 : This ain't funny any more. Regardless of bad reports coming in last weeks to me the 787 is a beautiful piece of engineering and I am definitely lookin
84 flylonghaul : I must say I'm rather pleased I decided not to fly LO to ORD. I was booking purely as it was the 787. As doubtful as I usually am that nothing will ha
85 ikramerica : Exactly my point. At this point pilots are spooked. Sorry if this isn't Pc because pilots are supposed to have nerves of steel and all, but everyone
86 F9animal : Guys... I am confident that this airplane is safe. It is a very reliable airplane. The media, the crews, and the passengers are overreacting.
87 ordwaw : There isn't. - The A333 aircraft taxied to the gate on its own power rather than stopping in the middle of the airport and having people evacuated vi
88 Post contains links PHX787 : Updated article from Japan Today. I trust this source best. http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...kes-emergency-landing-in-takamatsu
89 Lufthansa411 : When the 787 has 925+ frames produced and has proven itself a safe and reliable aircraft overall then we can start wondering why there is so much hyp
90 7BOEING7 : Didn't mention anything about smoke or smelling something.
91 trent1000 : Perhaps so, but the A333 is a proven workhorse and common aircraft type. The 787 has been extensively tested, but has yet to be proven to be as relia
92 Norcal773 : Ooh boy, Boeing sure need a break with this thing now. It'll be interesting to see if the other operators ground their Dreamliners too and my guess is
93 holzmann : E-Trade -> BA -> Short
94 PHX787 : Was that confirmed from other sources? Yomiuri had it earlier that it "may have been" smoke. But that's not a confirming word in Japanese.
95 BoeingVista : But it may still be charging.
96 DocLightning : Was it three years late? Did it catch fire twice (perhaps three times)? The A330 has around a thousand frames delivered, IIRC and has been in service
97 PHX787 : Didn't an A330 have a crash during testing too? More updates: apparently the NPA is proposing a raid on the company that built the APU for the 787 bu
98 Post contains images AeroWesty : I've actually found it enlightening. Watching engineers close to the program working through each issue thoroughly and methodically one-by-one, which
99 Norcal773 : Why in the hell is this main News on cnn.com. Really? Insider trading? haha.
100 AA94 : Correct. No one - news sources or ANA - have confirmed that there was in fact smoke in the aircraft.
101 brilondon : They have the largest fleet so of course with these problems that the aircraft is having right now, these things that are happening are magnified due
102 Post contains links PHX787 : Guys I am concerned about facts only not anything about opinions on the aircraft itself. Ok look at the photo linked here. http://www.reuters.com/arti
103 cbphoto : What the heck does that mean, the pilots are spooked? I bet the pilots got the information from the FAs about smoke in the cabin, followed company pr
104 ely747 : You might as well question why was FAA certification granted if the plane wasn't safe or fit enough to fly. I don't think they would ever put people
105 deltaflyertoo : Japan Airlines now grounding their 787 too.
106 F9animal : I find it funny that anyone can bring up that a 777 had smoke issues today. There are about 50 787s in service worldwide. The 777 has several hundred
107 wjcandee : This is like all the pilots overtesting and burning out the stab trim on the MD80 after the Alaska accident. Sounds like they got a warning they would
108 Norcal773 : If you actually look at the next picture on the link you provided, the rear slide on the other side was actually deployed. We don't know there was sm
109 Post contains images AeroWesty : There were only 137 passengers on the flight. Perhaps no one was seated in the area near the other door.
110 flightsimer : Really, the Flying of a A380 has ALWAYS been sound? What about the multiple engine shut downs that happened after EIS on multiple carriers BEFORE the
111 jreuschl : I know no smoke was confirmed, but it must be a semi-serious or very serious issue for them to ground their whole fleet.
112 Post contains links and images PHX787 : http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/ne...-OYT1T00225.htm?from=rss&ref=rssad Japanese only. Says the cockpit received a battery error, as we all conf
113 qf340500 : wjcandee, i cant believe that you are putting now the blame on the pilots, for them being vigilant and not ignoring a warning on a relatively new plan
114 jreuschl : I guess at this point we can hope for Boeing that these smoke issues are "only" bad batteries.
115 ordwaw : Idiotic? Tell it to the lady with a hip injury, fire department, the pilot, and all affected by SW111 ... [Edited 2013-01-15 20:56:14]
116 Post contains links dcann40 : Additional coverage which reminds the reader that LOT has its 787 launch tomorrow ANA, JAL Ground Dreamliners for Inspection
117 SonomaFlyer : Problem is that many folks have a short attention span and expect instant answers to their every question. Tracking and solving issues such as these
118 flightsimer : Weren't most 777-200A's grounded briefly in 2009/2010? I remember AA's were for sure, but i thought United's were as well. This is the first full eva
119 ely747 : I guess, this is the right time to buy Boeing shares and keep them for a while ...
120 AA94 : This is so overly dramatic. I am in agreement with you that the plane needs to be grounded, the cause of these problems identified, and fixed accordi
121 DeltaB717 : Would it not be possible to start the APU using a GPU to avoid using/charging the APU battery until such time as the inspections/investigations are co
122 Post contains images lightsaber : Wow. Just wow. With the other 787 issues, I was discussing the plane losing the longer ETOPS (but keeping the TPAC capability). Now I wonder if the ET
123 Post contains links cbphoto : Yahoo news is now saying an "odd smell was detected in the flight deck and cabin, along with a battery error message relayed to the pilots! More info,
124 Post contains images PHX787 : JL 7 in Japanese aerospace now.
125 7BOEING7 : As far as "warnings" are concerned, there are no WARNING, CAUTION or ADVISORY messages that relate to the APU BATTERY. There are ADVISORY messages th
126 PHX787 : Confirmed as well by Yomiuri and the Japanese transport ministry. I'm trying to see if I can find any LiveATC recordings of this flight but I'm not h
127 flightsimer : And we can also say that the 777 has had 2 hull loss accidents and the A330 has had 4 with one being while it was still in testing. The 787 has had Z
128 DocLightning : I wonder if the passengers aboard have heard about this yet?
129 F9animal : We forget that ordinary passengers are experiencing these issues. When you are jumping down a slide, and being told to run for your life... I think yo
130 Post contains images AeroWesty : Think about it, think about it … "Ladies and gentlemen, madams and messieurs, this plane will be grounded upon arrival in Tokyo for a safety inspec
131 Post contains images PHX787 : Now were you just being facetious about your previous posts about the "teething issues" Rumor time: UA planning on comprehensive checks and the ones
132 SOBHI51 : Any chance of telling us what is that App?
133 spacecadet : You and other 787 apologists need to finally give it a rest. You do not know more than the airlines that own and operate this plane. If you did, *you
134 BoeingGuy : This shows how little you know about the Aviation industry, sir. The current Boeing SMOKE, FIRE, or FUMES checklist for all models, which conforms to
135 Post contains links and images PHX787 : AV Herald on top of things. http://avherald.com/h?article=45c377c5&opt=0 Flightradar24 This indeed is serious and we should all be thankful Japane
136 F9animal : You better believe passengers were terrified. Come on now! It is a plane built of plastic. When they boarded that plane, they were fully aware that i
137 jporterfi : Not to detract from the topic at hand, but what website/database/software did you use to get that image?
138 Norcal773 : Flightradar24 on iOS devices.
139 cmf : I too am puzzled by this. I find it as bad as the doom and gloom predictions.
140 Norcal773 : Flight Radar does have a big delay today.. JL7 landed at 2:32PM local time (5 minutes ago) but Flight Radar shows it at FL250 and descending as I typ
141 Post contains images PHX787 : Flightradar24 for my iPad mini which has saved my ass throughout this whole thing, including apps for aiding in translating and with various Japanese
142 DocLightning : Yes, but don't they have live TV news and inflight internet?
143 Post contains images astuteman : I must admit that that's where my thinking goes too..... ONE uncontained engine failure? Yes all of it was serious. What multiple engine failures? On
144 AeroWesty : Satellite-based, on the 787? Not that they've ever announced.
145 Post contains links flyingbird : Flightradar24 have 2 data sources. ADS-B that is 100% real time and FAA that is 5 minutes delayed. There are absolutely no other delays on FR24. Find
146 spacecadet : I agree - people really need to use their own critical thinking skills some of the time. Not *every* incident is serious and not *every* incident is
147 PHX787 : Passing through 5,000 feet now JAL7[Edited 2013-01-15 22:12:51]
148 CM : There can be smoke in then cabin during cruise if the problem is in the AC pack or elsewhere in the air distribution system. Fan failures regularly r
149 tdscanuck : If we don't know what the problem is, how do we know they're not just teething? I don't think two of these types of events in rapid succession is tee
150 Post contains links smolt : The link above which PHX787 gave us http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/ne...-OYT1T00225.htm?from=rss&ref=rssad also tells that ATC controller obser
151 multimark : Isn't there also a substantial cost to repacking all the slides?
152 PHX787 : Short finals and touchdown now. It's eerie almost seeing it grounded like this. Is my translation ok? Haha
153 tdscanuck : Yes, although I'm not aware that anybody ever considers that in the process of doing an evacuation...if you need to evacuate, you evacuate. If you th
154 BoeingGuy : So? It's more expensive to recover dead bodies, if it were that kind of situation. The captain wasn't thinking of the inconvenience of repacking the
155 Post contains links Markhkg : Video of the 787 Evacuation (TBS News - In Japanese) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yty-zd1rDnc
156 mingocr83 : 7 incidents in 8 days...not normal. I feel sorry for Boeing at this point. One thing that all these planes have in common is that they needed a ton of
157 PHX787 : Thank you for this video. About :25 into the video you can see the smoke that smolt referenced.
158 pilotanthony : is Boeing going to release any statement? or ANA? anybody? lol
159 spacecadet : Not by me. You're putting words in my mouth. But I don't recall any electrical arcing or fires on board early 767's or 777's, nor do I recall major a
160 pilotanthony : cant have been that serious is everybody is standing around the plane after evacuation, and not running.....
161 Post contains images PHX787 : ANA held a news conference with them being reportedly excessively apologetic. "Bowing deeply" according to fox. Guys it's late in Arizona and I am go
162 tdscanuck : It's possible. Has anyone correlated the incidents to line numbers? Lower line numbers have more rework. That would have some positive aspects...it w
163 spacecadet : I can't tell where that smoke is coming from - it appears to be coming from the ground? Is it actually smoke and not steam? Well, what do you expect
164 NorthstarBoy : I can't help but wonder: A. If the 787 is going to be the modern day equivalent of the Comet, totally revolutionary, but with unforseen problems that
165 Post contains links flightsimer : I guess i worded it in a way that could lead to misunderstanding... I did not mean multiple engine shut downs on one flight. What I meant was there w
166 CM : The smoke in the video appears to be coming from the forward outflow valve. The cabin (at least the aft cabin) appeared in the video to be entirely s
167 mingocr83 : That is my point, if all the incidents can be correlated to the Line number it could narrow down the problems and provide a quicker solution being a
168 airlinebuilder : this is what we call total haste that made a whole lot of waste just to win their share of the market since Airbus has grown to be a formidable giant
169 sankaps : Surely one of the most uninformed statements on this entire sorry series of episodes. This is sarcasm, correct? Or a troll? Sure, but for what kinds
170 Post contains links pilotanthony : 1. The active runway is behind the aircraft 2. The active runway was closed, making it no longer ACTIVE 3. Run to the grass as long as you are away f
171 apodino : Not saying that the 787 doesn't have its issues...but I see a lot of these types of problems on the CRJ on a daily basis, and yet there is no media ou
172 flood : That makes no sense to me. If ANA were to voluntarily ground the fleet for 10 days, surely that wouldn't be counted as a 500+ flight cancellation hit
173 PHX787 : One more thing before I hit the sack for tonight: aircraft in question which landed in Takamatsu is JA804A. Takamatsu's IAT code is TAK and ISCO code
174 cbphoto : First things first, comparing the Comet to the 787 is extremely inaccurate. The Comet had numerous in flight break ups, which resulted in a string of
175 sankaps : The first step of which is to acknowledge there may indeed be something or things wrong with the aircraft (ie it not just dismiss as routine teething
176 PITingres : Certainly there may be something systemically wrong with the aircraft. The point is, that unless you KNOW what the problems are, you DON'T KNOW if th
177 Post contains images peterjohns : Now we know if anything goes wrong, especially in the aeronautical world, someone usually has pictures or even a film of it. But if you are told that
178 FlyingAY : Considering they've probably braked rather hard to get the plane to stop as soon as possible, could it just be coming from the brakes?
179 vegas005 : Fortunate enough to have flown it, but was not really impressed by it. I was flamed last week when I said I won't fly it again until it is fixed. What
180 bluesky73 : I know there are bigger priorities to fix issues but bet ANA paint those 787 titles out over next few months. My wife that knows nothing about planes
181 sankaps : Agreed. Most of the hand-wringers are not saying there is definitively something wrong with the aircraft, but are saying these incidents cannot just
182 Post contains links StickShaker : Just appeared on CNN: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/01/...e-biggest-lemon-in-history/?iid=EL Not the type of headlines Boeing would want. In terms
183 ba319-131 : - I'm impressed you noticed this after such short flights, I've flown the 787 on the FRA-HND and HND-FRA sectors, never noticed the difference.
184 ordwaw : Why is CNN publishing articles with such crazy titles? The headline pretty much suggests 787 is a lemon, and many people just remember headlines. The
185 Post contains images a36001 : I imagine Air India will have a field day with this! Bet they demand Boeing take all their fleet back for refund plus compensation! Sorry but I am not
186 n729pa : I love planes regardless of who makes them, but there are some one-eyed Airbus and Boeing fans on this site, and whilst some were quick to kick Airbus
187 MillwallSean : As long as no fatal crash occurs the 787 should be able to survive relatively unscratched. A fatal crash and all bets are off. However this epidemic o
188 ordwaw : With regard to the "teething" problems ... Is it just me, but I have not heard of any for LA and ET? Other than seeing the opposite, a concurrent thre
189 Post contains links keuleatr72 : LA had some reliability issues. No word from ET though. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-on-787-reliability-issues-380664/
190 Post contains images brushpilot : It's just a bad day for the 787 CHRISTINELINER...
191 GBOAD : Looking on the bright side, that was a sweet-looking slide deployment on the RH side of the aircraft. Looks like Dr 4L didn't deploy, though, which wi
192 LH526 : One ANA B787 is currently stored at FRA (Golf positions)
193 Aviaponcho : Hello CM You can see some fluid under the belly where the smoke is What can it be ? Is there a fire protection in this forward electronic bay ?
194 OzGlobal : Boeing's lawyers must agree with you. CNN has taken down the headline!
195 BlueSky1976 : No. This is NOT normal. Not with the same issue affecting three different airframes operating with three different carriers. Sorry.
196 Post contains images BEG2IAH : 192 responses and only a few that are actually informative. This thread just proves why the mass media that we accuse of being full of it actually exi
197 BEG2IAH : Check his other posts, he has a slow day and is trying to be sarcastic.
198 SKAirbus : Whoever said, "if it ain't Boeing, it ain't going" is an idiot... The 787 is starting to become the Marilyn Monroe of the skies... Looks pretty but ha
199 tdscanuck : The point of a test program is, among other things, to find problems. However, no test program in the history of aviation has (or probably ever will)
200 abba : I understand that JAL and ANA are going to inspect their planes before flying them again in a few days - Thursday I think I saw in a press report. Ba
201 blueflyer : Isn't it standard practice to shut down the engines in case of an emergency evacuation? In the TBS news video, the left engine is clearly spinning sti
202 Post contains links KarelXWB : Update on the smoke: "The airline added that “there [was] no smoke visually confirmed but there was also an unusual smell in the cockpit as well as
203 flood : These problems may be contagious. UA 33 NRT-LAX just returned to gate and is showing a 2hr MX delay.
204 sankaps : Thanks, you are right, I meant UPS.
205 PlaneInsomniac : Artificially treating each incident as completely isolated is not very helpful either. In particular if they occur within days on a small-ish fleet o
206 captcufflinks : Absolutely. You cannot have passengers walking around in front of a jet engine for obvious reasons. Or, indeed, in emergency situations when there ar
207 BlueShamu330s : No, it's still there, unchanged. Its tone echoes the pieces on other networks. Rgds
208 Post contains links and images vivekman2006 : Huh! Far from it in reality.... All six 787s delivered to Air India so far are still flying! http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...y-landing/article
209 IL96M : I was at Beijing's T3 waiting for my flight last night and watched Ethiopian's 787 depart for Addis Ababa. I wonder what they will do with their fllee
210 ba319-131 : - What do you mean? - NH & JL are volunterily grounding their's for checks, there is no AD that calls for a mandatory grounding.
211 moo : There doesn't need to be an AD - people are wondering what other operators are going to do with regard to their fleets now, and its a valid point. He
212 Revelation : Interesting to have my morning ritual interrupted by the dulcet tones of the BBC World Service telling me about the ANA and JAL fleet groundings... I'
213 Wisdom : The QF uncontained engine failure happened 3 years after EIS. We're barely 14 months after EIS on the 787 and major problems are occurring on frames
214 Wisdom : True. In Japan reputation is very important. NH and JL invest the most money into maintenance than any other carrier in the world. Usually, when a ca
215 ltbewr : The need to immediately land with a fire, especially as to certain types of batteries, although of cargo both were with UPS. There was a case of a DC-
216 Post contains images a36001 : Yes I was being sarcastic....
217 scbriml : I think you're giving Boeing's lawyers too much credit. The headline is still there for me.
218 StickShaker : QF grounded their entire 380 fleet after the QF32 incident but other operators of RR engined 380's did not do so. It would be a carefully considered
219 StickShaker : A further quote from the article: .... “Later it was confirmed that the main battery in the forward electronic equipment bay was discolored and the
220 BestWestern : Excellent point, as usual. As I said after the Boston incident, Nobody knows what went wrong, and until then we should all take a chill pill, and com
221 Post contains links LY777 : This is not the first time that a new airplane has problems during EIS: - the A380: QF had to ground their A380 fleet - the 77W: there were numerous I
222 OzGlobal : That would be nice. At the other end of the scale of possibilities: the program itself could be found to have been pressured to push through mileston
223 capri : remember guys A320 first flight tests, it even crashed, and look where is A320 family now
224 moo : It does help that there are two engine manufacturers who have engines on the A380 - what occurs on one manufacturers engine is unlikely to happen on
225 BoeingVista : Y'know, if this is confirmed to be another battery fire Boeing or the FAA should seriously consider grounding the fleet because there is no apparent
226 Cubsrule : How, exactly, could the BOS incident have "ended badly if it had happened over the North Pacific?"
227 Post contains images EPA001 : 3 years after EIS. And the engine was the single cause for that very short grounding period. And it was only QF who grounded their A380's. Here two a
228 BoeingVista : Are you serious? By setting the plane alight.
229 Cubsrule : In view of the containment structure for the battery, how would that have happened?
230 BoeingVista : The BFD described it as being on fire... Maybe you should read some of the previous threads or this one.
231 anfromme : Qantas grounded their fleet for a few weeks, but no other airline did (although all operators of RR-powered A380s carried out inspections). There wou
232 SKAirbus : Bloody hell the cargo hold was smoking!!
233 Cubsrule : . . . AFTER they breached the containment structure which, of course, would not happen in flight. If there is some evidence of fire damage to anythin
234 Post contains links and images Aesma : Well, I didn't expect another incident so soon. Not the first time. For example the Lange Antares 20E/23E uses 150Kg of Li-Ion battery packs in the wi
235 Aesma : There was nothing special that I heard of during the A320 flight testing. It crashed after EIS. And the A330 crash on a test flight was also after EI
236 brilondon : This is becoming a joke from some of you. Really, ignoring a warning light actually leaves the pilot liable for the incident. If it turned out that h
237 capri : i was not sure about the cause, but my point was about the outcry and publicity that surrounds early types incidents, then there was no mass digital
238 airmagnac : There is no information I've seen that suggests any link in the causes or consequences of these problems ; the only link between batteries, landing g
239 Post contains links InsideMan : http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/01/...-787-the-biggest-lemon-in-history/ it's still there......
240 PITingres : An excellent suggestion. If you do that you'll see from an official NTSB photo that the containment was so successful that the paint on the battery b
241 ual777uk : I just know and hope that Boeing are running around like hot potatoes trying to get all these issues sorted and instill confidence back in those peopl
242 Post contains images EPA001 : Very well written. I completely agree with your analysis of which I highlighted this part as the best.
243 Post contains images lightsaber : Finally some information worth going through all the posts. Thank you. I believe (but my friends who could confirm are being quiet as their NDAs requ
244 trex8 : IF (and its a big if admittedly) the fire had gotten out of control, like Swissair 111, it took only 20 minutes to fall out of the sky, or 10 minutes
245 Post contains images TheRedBaron : When Aeromexico recieves their 787 I will be sure to bring my marshmallows on board !!! Well back on topic, I am happy that this incident was handled
246 Post contains images PITingres : I hope not. That would impact the A350 as well, since I believe I read that it's using 4 Li-ion batteries (roughly the equivalent energy storage as t
247 martinrpo1 : Grounding is ridiculous. The things that are happening are normal coming from a brand new aircraft. The media just exaggerates things out of proportio
248 moo : Did you just call two major Japanese airlines "ridiculous"? I hope not...
249 rcair1 : Yes and evacuating. Unless the crew could physically determine the source of the smell and determine it was contained, the safe thing to do was to ev
250 art : Surely the temperature in each battery is monitored? Is there no warning that a battery is overheating so that the crew can switch systems off to red
251 Post contains links PHX787 : Glad to see this wasn't locked given the back and forth I had to just sift through. Updated Japan Today article: http://www.japantoday.com/category/n.
252 CM : An airline must weigh the public perception factor into their decision making WRT a decision like this. Living in the western world, it is hard for u
253 JAAlbert : If nothing else, it's nice knowing that the 787's slides operate flawlessly! So if the battery is the problem and it's determined the battery must go,
254 Post contains links quiet1 : Interesting photo on Yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/photo-t...gers-photo-124807541--finance.html What the heck are those two F/A's doing still on
255 UALWN : I would draw exactly the opposite conclusion: grounding the fleet is a huge loss of face. Hence they must have very good reasons to do it.
256 anfromme : I agree that the media have a tendency to blow things out of proportion and make connections between unconnected things - e.g. a battery failure and
257 luv2fly : 2 crew members out of how many are still on the plane. Maybe they are the last to leave.
258 oldeuropean : Or some minutes for UPS 6 after take off from DXB.
259 mcdu : I will give you the choice. You are at 30 West in the Atlantic. Your choice, fire on board or engine inflight shutdown. Think about Swissair, UPS and
260 zeke : I do not agree with that. The Japanese public do not chase "minor problems". This is far from minor, using the slides to get off the aircraft in a hu
261 Stitch : Considering that all of these issues are occurring with airframes in revenue service, I admit to not seeing how grounding the fleet will help identif
262 starrion : The DC-10 that had a rear cargo door blowout that caused a hull loss and 300+ casualties? The same model that had photos of another plane rolling aft
263 Post contains links and images PHX787 : More reading with your coffee this morning. http://www.japantoday.com/category/n...reamliner-at-stake-as-probes-begin if you need proof of this see my
264 SonomaFlyer : Crew leave the a/c last. Each airline's procedures are a bit different but at least one f/a sweeps the passenger area to check for people. In this cas
265 Post contains images blrsea : And yours is a mature response?? Some people just want to take potshots at AI for unrelated issues. Whatever AI does will be as per the contract sign
266 rcair1 : I disagree. PR is the worst possible reason to make a technical decision because the PR 'mind' is notoriously fickle and short term. What they should
267 Aesma : Another thing about Japan, don't forget Japanese companies are very involved in the building of the 787, the wings are made there !
268 Stitch : Most of Air India's current fleet is from CHS and they have had undefined "electrical issues". They also make Section 43 (the forward fuselage), Sect
269 SonomaFlyer : UA a/c #8 to be delivered at the end of 2013 will come from CHS, the other seven have or will come from PAE.
270 na : I wonder if the accident investigations into the two 744F fires (UPS and Asiana) in 2010/11 have been further narrowed down to be Lithium-battery rela
271 UALWN : It is certainly a loss of face for Boeing, but also for NH and JL, which now have accepted that they have bought a plane that is somewhat "unsafe," o
272 7BOEING7 : The JAL airplane was Line #84 (highest Line # delivered so far) and the ANA airplane was Line #9. And I'll say again: As far as "warnings" are concern
273 Post contains images tarheelwings : Not sure why you think CM is stating this is a minor event.....in fact, he is not. He is simply making a statement on what he believes the Japanese r
274 Post contains links ferpe : It was a battery problem also for this flight: http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...a-787-had-battery-leak-flight-0116 According to a statement, ANA
275 Stitch : Not sure if you are referring to this specific incident or not, but if you are, the issue isa said to have happened with the Ship's (Main) Battery.
276 CO953 : What bothers me a bit is that due to the extended delays/rollout of the 787, one would think that a recurring problem with batteries would have surfac
277 rcair1 : Are you implying that they are related? The issue during flight test was FOD causing an arc. How is that related to battery issues? If we find FOD in
278 jreuschl : The BOS incident was on a 787 less than a month old, though. I guess Boeing has to hope it is "just" a battery problem and nothing more. That still m
279 CO953 : Regarding loss of "face," I would suspect that the Japanese public, fairly or not, would blame "sloppy Americans" for the problem, more than ANA or JA
280 sankaps : There have been many 24-hour periods since the BOS incident, and more incidents have occurred in these periods. So how much longer do you suggest peo
281 Post contains images wb556 : I know everyone says the battery fires in flight would be contained but I'm sorry I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a trans-pacific flight with
282 jreuschl : Out of curiosity, do new airplanes come with a warranty from Boeing like a new car would?
283 Stitch : And the TAK incident was on a 787 delivered exactly one year prior. Incorrect on the A330. The type's first fatal accident occurred on 30 June 1994 n
284 Post contains images CO953 : I think Cajun sometimes, being from south Louisiana. If it were Cajun Airlines, Troy Landry and the "Swamp People" would be busy rigging up a 50-pound
285 rcair1 : No - they have not. This would happen if they start canceling orders, etc. The loss of face, to date, is related to not providing the carriage they p
286 art : "Were it to be "just" a battery problem and nothing more, how long to find another supplier? How long would a redesign take and manufacturing of new
287 sankaps : You are splitting hairs here. It was not a pre-EIS test flight for the type. It was a certificato flight for P&W engines and the crash was the re
288 wb556 : Yes silly me, looks perfectly safe.
289 UALWN : I know this is a pontless discussion, but I fail to see why canceling orders would lead to lose of face while grounding the fleet would not: both are
290 PHX787 : I agree here, but what has Boeing done so far? Obviously this is very early into the investigation. As for updates from japan: it's late over there s
291 CM : Actually, the Japanese media do. Delays of any consequence at all in their domestic operation are frequently in the press. I did not say nor mean to
292 anfromme : As you mention a "smell", you're talking about the ANA plane, in which case I don't know why you mention APU Battery, as the battery involved here wa
293 spacecadet : And the passengers would know this how? If you are a passenger, and you have just landed on a runway, would you assume it's closed? Regardless, there
294 art : There is one that I am aware of: the BAC 1-11 went down in testing in 1963 because it could not recover from a "superstall".
295 Post contains links seahawks7757 : A report about all of the 787 issues in the last several weeks- http://www.airlinereporter.com/2013/...ner-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/
296 Post contains links PHX787 : All, I just finished translating an article from the Asahi Shimbun, another major news source in Japan. http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0116/TKY2
297 Post contains links jetblueguy22 : This thread has become quite long. A second thread was started to continue the discussion. It can be found here ANA B787 Emergency Landing/Fleet Groun
298 Post contains images Stitch : Gee, I said exactly that in the same post. I wonder why you chose not to quote that, as well...
299 Post contains images AirlineCritic : As a software engineer I disagree with that. Batteries you can just replace, but with problems in software... just being able to replicate the condit
300 mham001 : LiFePo4 is safer but not as dense so they would probably need more space. They also have slightly different voltage than the Yuasa's.
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