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Did Charter Airlines Ever Print Timetables?  
User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Hi,

I am wondering if charter airlines such as Airtours International Airways, Air 2000, Britannia Airways, Excel Airways,
First Choice, JMC, Monarch, My Travel and Thomas Cook Airlines used to print timetables that showed their charter services from UK Airports, as I can't find any record of them?

Any timetables or other source between 1998 and 2004. I know these years won't apply to all airlines listed as e.g they weren't in operation then or ceased operations or merged with another airline.

Wondered if anyone can shed some light on this topic?

Cheers.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

I used to have a Britannia Airways timetable that showed flights to places like FAO, AGP etc. I don't know if these were charter flights or scheduled services.

Also most of the tour operators used to print flight or seat only brochures that showed schedules and fares. OK not really a timetable but similar.

Alex


User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 1):

Hi,

Have you got any of those seat or flight brochures, or any timetable type stuff atall?

Regards,


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Try this site, Key Air was a charter and has a listing.

http://www.departedflights.com/timetables.html



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Per the book "Deregulation Knockouts: Round Two", Skybus MkII (1990s) was a public charter that printed timetables.


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

I'm sure Air 2000 published a timetable, but i think only covered some routes technically operated as scheduled flights. Likewise I've got an old Monarch timetable somewhere, but it only covers scheduled services

The only time I personally can recall seeing printed charter timetables is in the back of a Swiss scheduled services timetable, which covered the charter flights they operated

[Edited 2013-01-16 12:34:07]

[Edited 2013-01-16 12:37:36]


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):

Thanks, do you know where I get hold of those books?


User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):

Hi,

I'd be interested in your Monarch timetable showing scheduled services. Do you know where it is?

Thanks.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

I am pretty sure that Wardair Canada (WD) published timetables, and they did advertise themselves as a "scheduled charter airline.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2880 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 8):
I am pretty sure that Wardair Canada (WD) published timetables, and they did advertise themselves as a "scheduled charter airline.

They sure did, I've got one of theirs from 1988 that shows both scheduled flights (mostly on the A310s) and scheduled charter flights (they are separated in the timetable).



Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2535 times:

Also did Charter Airlines have their own OAG guides?

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9735 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2509 times:

No, they did not have "their own" OAG, whatever was scheduled was published in the regular vesion of the OAG, of whoich there was one for pax and one edition for cargo.

LTU in Germany had, over many years, their famous" red book. Most flights were published in that timetable, except the few full charters.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 2039 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2497 times:

World Airways did publish timetables about their scheduled charter flights like OAK-BWI during the early 1980s.


I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2469 times:

The UK charter airlines went through a spell of converting charter flights into a scheduled service operation at different times. Some stuck with it - like Monarch - and others like Britannia and Air 2000 ditched the idea after a few years. Others like BIA went out of business between times. In the earlier years, the concept was that a lot of regulatory restrictions used to apply to seat-only sales on charter flights and in many cases, you had to sell accommodation with a charter flight and could only market the flight via tour operator - the airline couldn't sell seats itself. By converting to a scheduled service, you avoided those restrictions. In later years after those restrictions had disappeared in the 1992 deregulation, a switch from charter to scheduled meant you could sell flights via the major distribution systems like Galileo, Sabre, Worldspan etc.

There were other ways around the restrictions though - quite a lot of "seat-only" flights were sold with seven nights' free accommodation included in a tent on a campsite near the airport so that they complied with the rules. If I remember rightly, easyJet still had to comply with a restriction of this nature when they started Geneva-Barcelona many years after the rules within the EU were abolished. Most airlines also had their own tour operators through whom seats could be sold.

Britannia mostly ran leisure routes but also offered a twice-daily 737-200 service between Luton and Belfast for several years, usually running the oldest 737-200 left in the fleet (G-AVRN) on it, which by that stage of its career could just about manage LTN/BFS without a tech stop. Orion, Air 2000, British Island, Monarch all ran leisure routes as schedules and published timetables. Best bet is to visit the event which takes place at Gatwick every year (normally around Easter) with loads of airline timetables and books, models etc on sale and I'm sure you'll find timetables on line.

And as one poster said, LTU published a guide as to which charter flights they ran and the tour operators through whom you could book seats on them. The only document like this which I ever saw from a UK airline was from Air 2000 for its first summer of operations in 1987 which did the same thing, but I've not come across anything like that in the years since.

The ABC World Airways Guide timetables used to list "Scheduled Charter Flights" under the scheduled flights for each citypair if the airline had provided details of the service to be published. [Wardair flights used to appear in the OAGs as full scheduled services.] Of course, any airline could also buy what was effectively advertising space in the pink pages at the back of the second volume of each month's ABC World Airways Guide to sell their wares, and many of the scheduled charter operations could be found in there as well.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9735 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 13):
And as one poster said, LTU published a guide as to which charter flights they ran and the tour operators through whom you could book seats on them.

direct booking as available from the 80 IIRC and the "package tour" requirement vanished pretty quickly. Since people are always one step faster than the bureaucrats who dream up such BS, the sleeping place used to be a tent somewhere near the beach and one could happily spend the nights in real hotels, booked on your own or through a travel agent.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25983 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 13):
Wardair flights used to appear in the OAGs as full scheduled services.

I'm quite sure that's not correct. I worked with OAGs for decades and carriers could only display schedules in the OAG if they had scheduled traffic rights.

For example, CP had extensive charter services to/from the UK before they obtained scheduled traffic rights. They were probably Wardair's largest competitor. During peak periods CP had more charter flights to/from the UK than scheduled flights to the rest of Europe. Those UK charters could never be included in the OAG, and that would have equally applied to Wardair.

Of course once Wardair obtained rights as Canada's second scheduled carrier alongside AC between Canada and the UK then their flights certainly appeared in the OAG. One of the major reasons for the acquisition of Wardair by CP's parent company in 1989 was to obtain Wardair's scheduled rights to the UK (and France).

It was the same for Wardair, CP and the many other carriers that operated charter services to dozens of points in the Caribbean and Mexico etc. Those flights never appeared in the OAG.

[Edited 2013-01-24 13:00:36]

User currently offlineLeej From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

JosephJarvis
Having worked the past 20 years with various tour operators, you might want to try contacting www.flightchoice.co.uk
I can't remember any of the UK charter operators publishing a timetable with their charters, as of course a lot of them would be either chartered 'whole' by the tour operator, or more commonly shared via a broker between a number of tour operators.
Before the great age of the internet, we used to advertise our seats with flightchoice - they had a paper guide for agents as to whom flew where and what operators or sharers we could buy seats from. Maybe they have archive copies, they have been in existence for 20+ years so you may find the info you want from them.
I have been fortunate in my work to fly some odd carriers out to the Med during that time. My one and only Tristar flight - operated by TBG on an ex TWA L10 Gatwick-Preveza. Up front in the old 'Ambassador' seats if I recall correctly. A Sabre Airways 727 to Dalaman, Caledonian DC10 to Antigua. Happy days!
Good luck with your search.


User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting Leej (Reply 16):

Hi,

Thanks for the information. I contacted Flightchoice and hope they can help me out.



I was wondering actually, another source that should include this information is a book called Airport Timetables UK. I'm looking for charter airlines flights primararily from London Gatwick Airport and have one of these books for Gatwick from Summer 2003 and it does show departure and arrival times of chartered airlines and their destinations from Gatwick. Wondered if anyone would have any of these books from before 2003 as this could be another promising lead to the info I need?

Thanks


User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3492 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

I remember LTU was issuing a timetable every season. At that time it had a fleet of some 20 aircrafts not more !

User currently offlineZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

I've just checked the ABC which I have stashed away from 1988 and the Wardair services on the routes for which I looked were listed as normal scheduled services - BHX-YYZ, NCL-YYZ etc. It may be that they had scheduled rights in full for some routes but not for others?

Joseph, I've got the Airport TImetables UK for every year from 1990 to 2003 - what specifically interests you?


User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 19):

That's excellent. The whole book just fascinates me, especially departure/arrival times of Air 2000, American,
British Airways, Continental, Delta, Excel Airways, Garuda, JMC, Monarch, Northwest and Virgin Atlantic flights from London Gatwick. I'm looking for 1998-2003. I have summer 2003 and I have spent hours looking through it. Looking for earlier ones.


User currently offlineJosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Did ABC produce timetable books in the late 1990s/early 2000s?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25983 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 19):
I've just checked the ABC which I have stashed away from 1988 and the Wardair services on the routes for which I looked were listed as normal scheduled services - BHX-YYZ, NCL-YYZ etc. It may be that they had scheduled rights in full for some routes but not for others?

By 1988 all Wardair services to the UK were scheduled.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1446 times:
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Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 12):
World Airways did publish timetables about their scheduled charter flights like OAK-BWI during the early 1980s.

World Airways was both a charter airline and a scheduled airline. They published schedules for their scheduled operation.

During first trips to LAX, I remember getting British Caledonian timetables at the TBIT.

There were plenty of US charter airlines that publish timetables.


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