JosephJarvis From UK - England, joined Apr 2011, 131 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2233 times:
I am wondering if charter airlines such as Airtours International Airways, Air 2000, Britannia Airways, Excel Airways,
First Choice, JMC, Monarch, My Travel and Thomas Cook Airlines used to print timetables that showed their charter services from UK Airports, as I can't find any record of them?
Any timetables or other source between 1998 and 2004. I know these years won't apply to all airlines listed as e.g they weren't in operation then or ceased operations or merged with another airline.
Wondered if anyone can shed some light on this topic?
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2050 times:
I'm sure Air 2000 published a timetable, but i think only covered some routes technically operated as scheduled flights. Likewise I've got an old Monarch timetable somewhere, but it only covers scheduled services
The only time I personally can recall seeing printed charter timetables is in the back of a Swiss scheduled services timetable, which covered the charter flights they operated
ZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1503 times:
The UK charter airlines went through a spell of converting charter flights into a scheduled service operation at different times. Some stuck with it - like Monarch - and others like Britannia and Air 2000 ditched the idea after a few years. Others like BIA went out of business between times. In the earlier years, the concept was that a lot of regulatory restrictions used to apply to seat-only sales on charter flights and in many cases, you had to sell accommodation with a charter flight and could only market the flight via tour operator - the airline couldn't sell seats itself. By converting to a scheduled service, you avoided those restrictions. In later years after those restrictions had disappeared in the 1992 deregulation, a switch from charter to scheduled meant you could sell flights via the major distribution systems like Galileo, Sabre, Worldspan etc.
There were other ways around the restrictions though - quite a lot of "seat-only" flights were sold with seven nights' free accommodation included in a tent on a campsite near the airport so that they complied with the rules. If I remember rightly, easyJet still had to comply with a restriction of this nature when they started Geneva-Barcelona many years after the rules within the EU were abolished. Most airlines also had their own tour operators through whom seats could be sold.
Britannia mostly ran leisure routes but also offered a twice-daily 737-200 service between Luton and Belfast for several years, usually running the oldest 737-200 left in the fleet (G-AVRN) on it, which by that stage of its career could just about manage LTN/BFS without a tech stop. Orion, Air 2000, British Island, Monarch all ran leisure routes as schedules and published timetables. Best bet is to visit the event which takes place at Gatwick every year (normally around Easter) with loads of airline timetables and books, models etc on sale and I'm sure you'll find timetables on line.
And as one poster said, LTU published a guide as to which charter flights they ran and the tour operators through whom you could book seats on them. The only document like this which I ever saw from a UK airline was from Air 2000 for its first summer of operations in 1987 which did the same thing, but I've not come across anything like that in the years since.
The ABC World Airways Guide timetables used to list "Scheduled Charter Flights" under the scheduled flights for each citypair if the airline had provided details of the service to be published. [Wardair flights used to appear in the OAGs as full scheduled services.] Of course, any airline could also buy what was effectively advertising space in the pink pages at the back of the second volume of each month's ABC World Airways Guide to sell their wares, and many of the scheduled charter operations could be found in there as well.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7754 posts, RR: 26 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1444 times:
Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 13): And as one poster said, LTU published a guide as to which charter flights they ran and the tour operators through whom you could book seats on them.
direct booking as available from the 80 IIRC and the "package tour" requirement vanished pretty quickly. Since people are always one step faster than the bureaucrats who dream up such BS, the sleeping place used to be a tent somewhere near the beach and one could happily spend the nights in real hotels, booked on your own or through a travel agent.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1368 times:
Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 13): Wardair flights used to appear in the OAGs as full scheduled services.
I'm quite sure that's not correct. I worked with OAGs for decades and carriers could only display schedules in the OAG if they had scheduled traffic rights.
For example, CP had extensive charter services to/from the UK before they obtained scheduled traffic rights. They were probably Wardair's largest competitor. During peak periods CP had more charter flights to/from the UK than scheduled flights to the rest of Europe. Those UK charters could never be included in the OAG, and that would have equally applied to Wardair.
Of course once Wardair obtained rights as Canada's second scheduled carrier alongside AC between Canada and the UK then their flights certainly appeared in the OAG. One of the major reasons for the acquisition of Wardair by CP's parent company in 1989 was to obtain Wardair's scheduled rights to the UK (and France).
It was the same for Wardair, CP and the many other carriers that operated charter services to dozens of points in the Caribbean and Mexico etc. Those flights never appeared in the OAG.
Leej From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1333 times:
Having worked the past 20 years with various tour operators, you might want to try contacting www.flightchoice.co.uk
I can't remember any of the UK charter operators publishing a timetable with their charters, as of course a lot of them would be either chartered 'whole' by the tour operator, or more commonly shared via a broker between a number of tour operators.
Before the great age of the internet, we used to advertise our seats with flightchoice - they had a paper guide for agents as to whom flew where and what operators or sharers we could buy seats from. Maybe they have archive copies, they have been in existence for 20+ years so you may find the info you want from them.
I have been fortunate in my work to fly some odd carriers out to the Med during that time. My one and only Tristar flight - operated by TBG on an ex TWA L10 Gatwick-Preveza. Up front in the old 'Ambassador' seats if I recall correctly. A Sabre Airways 727 to Dalaman, Caledonian DC10 to Antigua. Happy days!
Good luck with your search.
Thanks for the information. I contacted Flightchoice and hope they can help me out.
I was wondering actually, another source that should include this information is a book called Airport Timetables UK. I'm looking for charter airlines flights primararily from London Gatwick Airport and have one of these books for Gatwick from Summer 2003 and it does show departure and arrival times of chartered airlines and their destinations from Gatwick. Wondered if anyone would have any of these books from before 2003 as this could be another promising lead to the info I need?
ZuluTime From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 823 times:
I've just checked the ABC which I have stashed away from 1988 and the Wardair services on the routes for which I looked were listed as normal scheduled services - BHX-YYZ, NCL-YYZ etc. It may be that they had scheduled rights in full for some routes but not for others?
Joseph, I've got the Airport TImetables UK for every year from 1990 to 2003 - what specifically interests you?
That's excellent. The whole book just fascinates me, especially departure/arrival times of Air 2000, American,
British Airways, Continental, Delta, Excel Airways, Garuda, JMC, Monarch, Northwest and Virgin Atlantic flights from London Gatwick. I'm looking for 1998-2003. I have summer 2003 and I have spent hours looking through it. Looking for earlier ones.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 502 times:
Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 19): I've just checked the ABC which I have stashed away from 1988 and the Wardair services on the routes for which I looked were listed as normal scheduled services - BHX-YYZ, NCL-YYZ etc. It may be that they had scheduled rights in full for some routes but not for others?
By 1988 all Wardair services to the UK were scheduled.