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Virgin America Launches LAX-LAS Service  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9571 times:

Effective April 22nd 3x daily between LAX and Las Vegas adding to existing Vegas service from SFO and JFK.

Schedule:
VX474 LAX-LAS 1130-1235 A319
VX486 LAX-LAS 1515-1620 A319
VX490 LAX-LAS 1900-2005 A319

VX469 LAS-LAX 1320-1430 A319
VX475 LAS-LAX 1705-1815 A319
VX492 LAS-LAX 2050-2200 A319

Las Vegas is the largest market that Virgin America does not currently serve from LAX in terms of traveler demand, and Los Angeles is the largest local market for Las Vegas travelers.


Press release:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...ngeles-to-las-vegas-187146971.html

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinenwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 690 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9549 times:

Geez.... thats not an over served market lol. WN, NK, UA, AA, DL- am I missing anone else that flys that route? I would think they could use their airplanes for some other markets. Good luck to them.


The New American is arriving.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13012 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9497 times:
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Out of curiosity, how many other airlines are on this route? While I do believe this is a 'must have' route out of LAX, I do not think the margins will be good. A quick check on Orbitz for May fares has the lowest fare on Spirit ($88) with DL, UA, AA, and US (on UA?) with direct flights (plus WN, of course). It will be interesting to see how VX does with this route.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

and 3 flights a day, all in the afternoon. Definitely won't be getting any of the daily commuters.


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9417 times:

Could these be planes that would otherwise be sitting at LAX or LAS all day or are these new airplanes devoting all their time to the route? If the latter it seems like a horrible waste of aircraft...

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9421 times:

Might be a well served market, but its also a huge one, and one that has some high yields.

Market size is about 6,500 daily passengers each way, and only rivals the Bay Area as the biggest shorthaul market from the LA basin.

Fare wise for instance SWA, the market leader manages a whopping $0.52 average yield on the segment.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinepanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9397 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 3):
and 3 flights a day, all in the afternoon. Definitely won't be getting any of the daily commuters.

Yeah, the schedule is pretty jacked. I'm guessing we'll see them add in the mornings sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's an aircraft utilization thing. Use 'em while they'd otherwise sit idle.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9360 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Interesting schedule, none of the flights in either direction leave before 11:30am, so that eliminates some of the business traffic they may of otherwise captured. It's a huge market though.

This is a couple months old so it may vary slightly from current schedules, but here is a break down of LAS-LAX service:

WN 12x daily
DL 8x daily (mix of mainline/connection)
AA 5x daily (all mainline)
UA 5x daily (mix)
NK 2x daily

WN operates a total of 36 daily LAS-LAX/BUR/

Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9320 times:
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Quoting iowaman (Reply 7):
DL 8x daily (mix of mainline/connection)

DL runs it 9x daily (4x A319; 5x CR9) except on Saturdays (when it's 8x)


User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9317 times:

What is it with VX and their inability to schedule decent transfers for VS passengers? The two daily VS flights arrive at 3 pm or 7 pm, the first gives a long wait, the second means overnight if you want to use VX as many do. The same is true at SFO where even to VX destinations you end up flying with someone else due to poor timings [scratches head!].

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17442 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9259 times:

NK is pulling LASLAX down, no one is going to pay a premium for VX, and the first flight is at 1320. THIS is their next best add?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9256 times:

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 9):
What is it with VX and their inability to schedule decent transfers for VS passengers? The two daily VS flights arrive at 3 pm or 7 pm, the first gives a long wait, the second means overnight if you want to use VX as many do.

Considering VS flies to LAS themselves, I highly doubt VS transfer pax are a big concern for VX...


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9260 times:

WN

LAX-LAS 12x
BUR-LAS 11x
SNA-LAS 7x
ONT-LAS 6x

B6 also has 5x LGB-LAS



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17065 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

Fares starting at $39 one way.

Wish the best to VX on this very competitive route.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17442 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 11):

Considering VS flies to LAS themselves, I highly doubt VS transfer pax are a big concern for VX...

VX offers VS/VA nothing, hence the major joint ventures with DL.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9064 times:

You guys are forgetting that good portion of the VX demographic is probably not looking for an 8am Vegas flight.

The tech savy yuppie, or cosmo sipping club goer or the Hollywood fashion wanna be probably would find the VX schedule just right.

As Orbitz found out the Apple crowd would pay more for their travel needs, Virgin brand definitely attracts its own lifestyle and demographics click.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineairbusa322 From Australia, joined Apr 2009, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

Why are Spirit reducing? Were they not like 5 Daily or something a year ago?

User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8977 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
You guys are forgetting that good portion of the VX demographic is probably not looking for an 8am Vegas flight.

The tech savy yuppie, or cosmo sipping club goer or the Hollywood fashion wanna be probably would find the VX schedule just right.

As Orbitz found out the Apple crowd would pay more for their travel needs, Virgin brand definitely attracts its own lifestyle and demographics click.

Yes, because that demographic is doing a good job of helping VX pull in the profits.      



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8957 times:

Quoting airbusa322 (Reply 16):
Why are Spirit reducing? Were they not like 5 Daily or something a year ago?

Probably redeploy the planes out of DFW.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17442 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8907 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 18):

Probably redeploy the planes out of DFW.

And/or the market is rough, even at their low costs.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
The tech savy yuppie, or cosmo sipping club goer or the Hollywood fashion wanna be probably would find the VX schedule just right.

You gotta be kidding...

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 17):

Yes, because that demographic is doing a good job of helping VX pull in the profits.

I guess image conscious $30,000 millionaires is not the best demographic to chase after



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineairbusa322 From Australia, joined Apr 2009, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8818 times:

These times are quite attractive for Virgin Australia connections.

User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8694 times:

Dont forget SQ who does not codeshare with UA and lost their connect with US when they ceased flying the market.

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8652 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 3):
and 3 flights a day, all in the afternoon. Definitely won't be getting any of the daily commuters.

To me, the timings make sense, as the first flight gets you there early enough to be able to typically beat the lines to check-in at your hotel. The second flight gets you in late enough in the afternoon to be able to check-in and have a nice evening out and not have to rush. The last flight is clearly aimed towards those folks who are heading out there after work.

VX474 LAX-LAS 1130-1235 A319
VX486 LAX-LAS 1515-1620 A319
VX490 LAX-LAS 1900-2005 A319


Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
The tech savy yuppie, or cosmo sipping club goer or the Hollywood fashion wanna be probably would find the VX schedule just right.

Very true indeed.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17442 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8638 times:

Quoting airbusa322 (Reply 20):
These times are quite attractive for Virgin Australia connections.

VA has a JV with DL--I wonder if the JV contract even allows traffic to flow onto VX.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8495 times:
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This schedule looks like it can be done with a single aircraft rotation. Maybe they have some slack in their fleet to run this schedule. I sure hope the bean counters and the route planning guys are right in this move, to me it does not look like a money making route. As for them getting any connection traffic from VS and VA I'm sure DL would have something to say about that. They have a JV with VA and I'm sure by the end of the year the VS JV will be fully implemented. I'm sure VX is purely on this route for the local crowd and to serve their FF members in the LA area.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9054 times:

I'm not joking about the demographic.

VX has cultivated itself a quite unique passenger demographic unlike I have ever seen in the US market place.
The average VX passengers tech, travel, fitness, and leisure interest are significantly deeper than the typical American traveler.

Add in its unique marketing such as night club tie-ins, signature cocktails, its doing something special for a non-typical set of folks.

LAX-LAS was almost a "must-have" route for VX considering the size of the local market, and demand by its client base.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
VA has a JV with DL--I wonder if the JV contract even allows traffic to flow onto VX.

Every day VA-VX transfer passengers at LAX.

You can actually book VX segments on VA website as well. Also the VA Velocity FF program is tied to VX Elevate.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17442 posts, RR: 46
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8830 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
I'm not joking about the demographic.

VX has cultivated itself a quite unique passenger demographic unlike I have ever seen in the US market place.
The average VX passengers tech, travel, fitness, and leisure interest are significantly deeper than the typical American traveler.

So what? Because/despite that demographic, close to $1B has flown out the door.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineroswell41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
VX has cultivated itself a quite unique passenger demographic unlike I have ever seen in the US market place. The average VX passengers tech, travel, fitness, and leisure interest are significantly deeper than the typical American traveler.Add in its unique marketing such as night club tie-ins, signature cocktails, its doing something special for a non-typical set of folks. LAX-LAS was almost a "must-have" route for VX considering the size of the local market, and demand by its client base.

Apparently their demographic is too small or not interested in paying extra for VX. Walmart sells more clothing than Nordstrom is akin to Spirit being highly profitable and VX not.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8965 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
So what? Because/despite that demographic, close to $1B has flown out the door.

I was answering your response to my comment that the VX demographic might find the schedule just fine.

Nothing about profits, or other business matters.

Personally I feel these flights were much needed, and having the route will allow the VX loyalist to stay inhouse while helping introduce VX and its product to even more folks on such a major route.

With this add, VX is doing a nice job of checking off the the top O&D markets from both SFO and LAX.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8767 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):

Personally I feel these flights were much needed, and having the route will allow the VX loyalist to stay inhouse while helping introduce VX and its product to even more folks on such a major route.

Definitely. It's a route that, while I understood why we never served it prior to now, needed to be added. LAS is already one of our stronger stations, and as you and several others mentioned, these flight times will be good for inbound connects from international codeshare partners such as SQ and VA, plus its important that we have a presence on the route for locals and FFs on both ends.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 11):
Considering VS flies to LAS themselves, I highly doubt VS transfer pax are a big concern for VX...

Unless some of us West-Londoners would prefer to change planes at LAX instead of making the trip to LGW.    I doubt that anyone's THAT crazy, and in any case, not enough to justify 3 flights per day.



LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8257 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 24):
This schedule looks like it can be done with a single aircraft rotation. Maybe they have some slack in their fleet to run this schedule.


Definitely; this schedule is done with 1 a/c, leaving LAX at 11:30 in the morning and returning there at 10pm. So Virgin is committing 1 plane for almost 12 hours to run back and forth on one short and very competitive route. (Nothing unusual about that last condition!)

So VX now actually has another station with more than 2 routes (joining LA,SF and JFK in that very limited category; I guess that would probably qualify Vegas as a focus city -- by Virgin's standards anyway!)

It will be interesting to see how VX does on THIS route and if/how it might change the dynamics of the market. I agree with those who find the timing of the schedule to be less than optimal so we'll see if there are changes made in the future.

bb


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8162 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
Fares starting at $39 one way.

Yes, but that's probably for the 11:30 a.m. departure on a Tuesday morning.

To fly to LAS for a weekend (departing Thursday night or Friday morning, returning Sunday late afternoon/evening) from just about anywhere, including LAX, can actually be ridiculously expensive. That's why so many Angelenos wind up making the 4-5 hour drive rather than fly if they're doing a weekend getaway.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad route for VX, just saying the $39 one-way fare offering is a little misleading.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13554 posts, RR: 62
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8069 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
I was answering your response to my comment that the VX demographic might find the schedule just fine.

True.

And they'll enjoy it for maybe 9 months, until WN gleefully stomps them into the ground on this route.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinejetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 551 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

They could easily add one additional r/t in the morning with an 8:00am departure from LAX... if the aircraft is available.


"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2864 posts, RR: 30
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6338 times:

I first heard about this on Facebook - clearly, many people are VERY happy about this! You can't appeal to Angelenos without serving LAS (no, connecting through delay-prone SFO doesn't count). Now they serve all of their stations from the LAX hub, with the obvious exceptions of nearby PSP and SAN (no O&D) and restricted access markets of DCA, SJD, and PVR for which there are no slots/authorities available.

I'd say they now have most LAX folks pretty happy. They can't fly to Hawaii until they have ETOPS, which can't happen until the A32Xneos arrive, and really the only major markets missing at this point are Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, and Denver. If they can pull off LAX-LAS, I would presume LAX-PHX and even LAX-DEN wouldn't be a great stretch of the imagination...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 11):
Considering VS flies to LAS themselves, I highly doubt VS transfer pax are a big concern for VX...

While that is true, there are a lot of VS passengers who fly through LAX or SFO because of plane configurations (more UC seats) or because they are on multi stop tours.


User currently offlineDL WIDGET HEAD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 5769 times:

What a stupid, stupid move. Is this really the best way that VX can think of to use their precious assets? Putting them in the overly saturated, lowest yield route that you can think of? Why wouldn't they try something more compelling like LAX-PIT or CVG or IND where there is less competition and more of an opportunity to bring in some decent revenue? Weird.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5625 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 37):
lowest yield route that you can think of?

LA-LAS has higher yields then LA-Bay Area.

Lets look at SWA that operates on both.

City / Average one-way fare / Yield
LAS - $124 - $0.52
SF - $126 - $0.34

The airline headline fares might be $39, $59, or $79 to Vegas, but tons of people travel on $250+ last minute fares.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejetMARC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 551 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 37):
Is this really the best way that VX can think of to use their precious assets?

I don't know if this is wise or not and I don't really know their scheduling... but whenever I fly into SFO or LAX, I feel like I always see one or two aircraft parked on a remote hardstand. I guess with their recent reduction in flying, they have spares that might as well be flying.



"Sucka, I'm gonna send you out on Knuckle Airlines. Fist Class!!" ~ Mr. T
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5518 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 37):
What a stupid, stupid move. Is this really the best way that VX can think of to use their precious assets? Putting them in the overly saturated, lowest yield route that you can think of?

But apparently, it is not that low yielding:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Fare wise for instance SWA, the market leader manages a whopping $0.52 average yield on the segment.



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2757 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 35):
the only major markets missing at this point are Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, and Denver. If they can pull off LAX-LAS, I would presume LAX-PHX and even LAX-DEN wouldn't be a great stretch of the imagination...

WIth several thousands (my roundabout averages from FAA stats) of pax flying between the SoCal area and Denver (4500 pax daily on F9, UA, WN and AA), Phoenix (4700 daily pax on US, DL, AA, WN) being especially high, and then Houston (2400 daily pax on UA, AA from IAH and WN from HOU) and Atlanta (2700 pax on DL and WN), there seems to be some room for VX to poach off pax from the already established carriers on these routes.

And I think that if any carrier can break into these super have pax markets..... VX could be the one to do it......

 


User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 8):
DL runs it 9x daily (4x A319; 5x CR9) except on Saturdays (when it's 8x)

Wow. DL has really become quite a player in this market, and quite quickly. I think they only restarted this route after the merger, and then it was just NW's daily flight to connect to NRT. Even quite recently, it was all CR9 except for one of the night-time flights. I guess DL has found a way to make the route work well.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 6
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5068 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 32):
To fly to LAS for a weekend (departing Thursday night or Friday morning, returning Sunday late afternoon/evening) from just about anywhere, including LAX, can actually be ridiculously expensive. That's why so many Angelenos wind up making the 4-5 hour drive rather than fly if they're doing a weekend getaway.

  LAS is a huge get away for the Los Angeles area on weekends. Interstate 15 is bumper to bumper on Friday nights inbound and Sunday night outbound.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
City / Average one-way fare / Yield
LAS - $124 - $0.52
SF - $126 - $0.34

That's impressive. I suspsect WN may have a few other "gold mine" routes out of LAS (such as RNO and PHX).

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 42):
Wow. DL has really become quite a player in this market, and quite quickly. I think they only restarted this route after the merger, and then it was just NW's daily flight to connect to NRT. Even quite recently, it was all CR9 except for one of the night-time flights. I guess DL has found a way to make the route work well.

With the type of yields WN is getting and the amount of volume there is on the market I can see why they increased it. I believe right before the merger NW flew it 1x daily with a 319. There might of been a DC9 on the route in the earlier years as well. With DL at 9x daily I'm guessing they are picking up decent yields, or they wouldn't be running CR7's on the route to allow additional flight options.

AA is doing very well on the route too. A check of schedules next month shows 5x 738 on weekdays. Very recently it was 3x MD80, and before that I believe there might of even been some ERJ's on the route if my memory is correct.

UA has actually dropped some capacity in recent years. 1x 737, 1x 320, 1x 752, and 2x CR7 is the schedule mid-next month. Still a nice presence in the market.

WN has less frequency on LAX-LAS compared to previous years. To be fair the -800's are on the route with more seats of course, and SNA is at an all time high for frequency and seats from LAS.

HP/US had a presence before the LAS hub pulled down. They are completely out of the market now for non-stops.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 43):
LAS is a huge get away for the Los Angeles area on weekends. Interstate 15 is bumper to bumper on Friday nights inbound and Sunday night outbound.

I've got several friends that live in the LA area that go to Vegas on a regular basis and most of them opt to drive while only one of them tends to fly there. They do go on the weekends but either drive out Thursday night or Friday morning and head back early on Sunday or wait until Monday morning.



Quoting iowaman (Reply 43):
I suspsect WN may have a few other "gold mine" routes out of LAS (such as RNO and PHX).

LAS-RNO is definitely one since US dropped the route when they gutted their LAS operations. PHX-LAS I was surprised that they have as many flights a day on the route as they do.


User currently offlinepanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 37):
What a stupid, stupid move. Is this really the best way that VX can think of to use their precious assets? Putting them in the overly saturated, lowest yield route that you can think of?

Spending their "precious assets" opening a new station is smarter than spreading their current costs out over existing stations by connecting the dots using an otherwise idle aircraft on a (contrary to your opinion) decent-yielding route? I think not. This was a natural add, and IMO will only see more frequency in time to plug the gaps already pointed out. Perhaps we'll see some out-of-the-VX-box thinking if it does particularly well and get a SAN-LAS add.


User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 4
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 43):
HP/US had a presence before the LAS hub pulled down. They are completely out of the market now for non-stops.

A rather large presence. Before their first big schedule cut in early 2008, they were still running about 8 to 10 flights a day. When LAS was finally pulled down to a spoke at the end of 2011 they had 3.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4248 posts, RR: 6
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4132 times:

As an industry observer, it seems to me that every new route VX adds is ripe with competition (usually from more than one other airline) and has timetable/scheduling challenges.

Most people in the US know that the LA-LAS route is one of the busiest in the West and, as noted, a half dozen other airlines fly to Las Vegas from LAX, BUR and LGB. Many of them have better schedules than what VX is offering. It is also possible to drive the route in 6 hours (sometimes more, sometimes less) so there is probably very little room for a new entrant on such a concentrated market. VX thrives on being a first class airline, and by all accounts their onboard product and service beats all other airlines hands down, but if they are having trouble getting passengers to pay a premium for their flights on longer transcon routes, how do they expect it to work on such a short route? NK practically has their passengers sitting on eight-abreast milk crates on their flights but even I can concede, for a flight that is typically less than one hour, who cares?

Obviously I am aware NK's seating is not eight-abreast on their Airbuses and their seats are probably just fine. It's sarcasm, but my point still stands. I don't think there will be too many takers paying a premium for a one hour flight and I have serious doubts VX can make a profit on the route competing on price.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 43):
LAS is a huge get away for the Los Angeles area on weekends. Interstate 15 is bumper to bumper on Friday nights inbound and Sunday night outbound.

Bumper to bumper in segments. The rest of the trip is just "heavy" traffic. On Friday nights, the truck traffic in the right lane is a big impediment. I live about 8 mi north of ONT and the drive is only about 30-45 min longer due to traffic, unless there is an accident that stops traffic for a significant period.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 44):
PHX-LAS I was surprised that they have as many flights a day on the route as they do.

There isn't an interstate highway from Phoenix to Vegas. You can get to Kingman or Needles on I-17 I-40 but from there is is 100 miles or so. I have driven it on US93/95 which is 2 lane for much of the way.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 43):
WN has less frequency on LAX-LAS compared to previous years.

Out of all the carriers, WN is also connecting a bunch of pax in LAS to go to and from SAN and secondary airports in Southern California.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 48):
There isn't an interstate highway from Phoenix to Vegas. You can get to Kingman or Needles on I-17 I-40 but from there is is 100 miles or so. I have driven it on US93/95 which is 2 lane for much of the way.

I'm quite aware of that fact. I just thought that US was still the dominant carrier on the route (even after the gutting of their LAS operations) and was surprised that they had a lot less flights than WN does these days.


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

VX LAX-LAS was long overdue.
This should be good market for VX
It was also one of the most requested market from LA VX pax.
The flight times for the Hollywood LA party crowd which loves VX works great.
I still think VX failed SNA service could have been saved with shifting their 4 slots to 3 LAS and 1 JFK.
wnfg



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 48):
There isn't an interstate highway from Phoenix to Vegas. You can get to Kingman or Needles on I-17 I-40 but from there is is 100 miles or so. I have driven it on US93/95 which is 2 lane for much of the way.



A large portion of US93 has been expanded to a four lane highway which helped speed up the flow of traffic considerably.

I am not sure how much is directly correlated to the widening of this stretch of the highway, but the number of N/S flights between PHX-LAS has dropped considerably since 2000. Currently, US & WN fly a total of 23 (US: 10 WN:13) daily N/S flights from PHX-LAS. In 2000, prior to the widening of the road, US & WN had a combined total of ~34 (US: 18, WN:~16) daily N/S flights.


User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3190 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 51):
I am not sure how much is directly correlated to the widening of this stretch of the highway, but the number of N/S flights between PHX-LAS has dropped considerably since 2000. Currently, US & WN fly a total of 23 (US: 10 WN:13) daily N/S flights from PHX-LAS. In 2000, prior to the widening of the road, US & WN had a combined total of ~34 (US: 18, WN:~16) daily N/S flights.

It's probably only a small contribution to the overall pulldown in frequencies. In early 2007 WN and HP/US still had about 35 daily n/s flights, but the combination of US shutting down LAS and the overall rationalization of flying (some of those LAS flights had pitifully low LFs) that has occurred since then are likely more direct contributors.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 50):
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 50):

VX LAX-LAS was long overdue.
This should be good market for VX
It was also one of the most requested market from LA VX pax.

This is best explanation I could come up with. There must be some of what is solid or at-least-what-they-think-is baked-in revenue to give them a head-start with this for it to make sense.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2856 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting wn676 (Reply 52):
It's probably only a small contribution to the overall pulldown in frequencies. In early 2007 WN and HP/US still had about 35 daily n/s flights, but the combination of US shutting down LAS and the overall rationalization of flying (some of those LAS flights had pitifully low LFs) that has occurred since then are likely more direct contributors.
Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 48):
Out of all the carriers, WN is also connecting a bunch of pax in LAS to go to and from SAN and secondary airports in Southern California.

Most certainly the same with PHX as well. I suspect both PHX and LAS would be handling much more connecting traffic if it wasn't for DEN.

Quoting richierich (Reply 47):
As an industry observer, it seems to me that every new route VX adds is ripe with competition (usually from more than one other airline) and has timetable/scheduling challenges.

VX must think they have a good enough product to differentiate themselves from the competitor. You would think a newer (well, newer compared to most other carriers in the U.S) airline would want to avoid competition. I hope to try their product out some day.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 50):

It was also one of the most requested market from LA VX pax.

Makes sense to me.

Quoting EricR (Reply 51):
In 2000, prior to the widening of the road, US & WN had a combined total of ~34 (US: 18, WN:~16) daily N/S flights.

WN was actually at 20x LAS-PHX in summer of 2000. LAS-LAX was at 18x daily as well.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Yawn...another hypercompetitive route for VX to bleed money on....

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2794 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Might be a well served market, but its also a huge one, and one that has some high yields.

There's no high yields


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 6
Reply 57, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2765 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 56):
There's no high yields

Not sure what others are pulling on LAX-LAS, but if this information is correct WN is pulling excellent yields on LAX-LAS:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
Lets look at SWA that operates on both.

City / Average one-way fare / Yield
LAS - $124 - $0.52
SF - $126 - $0.34

Even if VX got 25 cents a mile that's still much better than many routes.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2707 times:
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I live in Los Angeles and I REFUSE to waste my time off driving to Las Vegas AND waking up early in the morning. I like these departure times as I can have a leisurely breakfast, board my flight, and arrive at my hotel at the opening of check-in. I would also choose Virgin America (if I wasn't loyal to Delta) as Terminal 3 does not seem as crowded as Terminal 1 where Southwest departs at LAX.

Good for Virgin! I say, "why not?"

Air Afreak =]



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlineKleiner From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

For all the trolling about VX here, I don't hear many creative route ideas that sound any better. If you were VX (not if you were you), where would you send those extra planes?

User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2605 times:
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Quoting Kleiner (Reply 59):

Los Angeles to New Orleans with continuing service to Savannah. How's that for creative? =]

Bon Voyage,

AirAfreak



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7122 posts, RR: 57
Reply 61, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 58):
I like these departure times as I can have a leisurely breakfast, board my flight, and arrive at my hotel at the opening of check-in.

Ah, the early booking price conscious leisure passenger....



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1711 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2600 times:
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Quoting Kleiner (Reply 59):
For all the trolling about VX here, I don't hear many creative route ideas that sound any better. If you were VX (not if you were you), where would you send those extra planes?

LAX-ATL to capture the new movie industry traffic. I think ATL-LAX 3x daily and ATL-SFO 2x daily would be decent for them. I also dont think there is much DL could do about it as they already serve the market well. It wouldnt be like B6 ATL-LGB because VX at least has some LAX strength that B6 didnt.

IAH will be tougher as it is UA/UA hub flying. LAX-MSY might be possible too.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17065 posts, RR: 10
Reply 63, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 32):
I'm not saying this is a good or bad route for VX, just saying the $39 one-way fare offering is a little misleading.

Now the base fare seems to be $59. The $39 was just a promotion fare.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2511 times:
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Quoting BestWestern (Reply 61):

Hardly.

I simply prefer to sleep in. I am a frequent Businesselite paying passenger. I am a leisure passenger that actually books "J" fares because I don't want to rely on upgrading. I enjoy life and to me, that means 1) not waking up at an early hour of the day, and 2) I am, 6'2" (188cm) tall, so I don't fly Economy.

I never understood the leisure passengers choosing a 6 am flight to get "THE MOST" of their holiday. I prefer quality over quantity.

Bon Voyage,

AirAfreak =]


 



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