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Rumor: DL Skymiles To Add Revenue Requirement  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 14630 times:

If true, I applaud Delta. I have long been a proponent of revenue based earning scheme for loyalty programs.


Apparently there is a Delta memo floating around that highlights changes to the Skymiles program for 2014.

The program change to be rolled out by March 1st, would include the addition of a revenue component to achieving Medallion levels.

To be known as MQDs (Medallion Qualification Dollars), will be earned on spending on Delta and a few partner airlines.

Earning Medallion levels would require the traveller meet both the new MQD thresholds which reportedly maybe $2,500 for Silver, up to $12,500 for Platinum and achieving either the current existing miles or segment qualification thresholds.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
141 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14595 times:

Makes sense. Why give status to someone who is only doing mileage runs and paying deeply discounted fares? This should help improve margins for DL going forward. Much like when WN changed to a revenue-based model for Rapid Rewards, it was done to improve margins and reward those that spend the most with the airline.


Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinenwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 687 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14504 times:

I agree. Many years ago before I worked at US- I had status with NW- most of it off cheap tickets. The upgrades were nice and the benefits were great- but in all honesty I did not give NW a good return on what they offered me.

I have long thought from a business sense, passengers should be rewarded based on dollars spent not miles flown. Many US pax who fly weekly from BUF to DCA may spend more in a year than someone flying LAX-PHL because of the way the markets are priced. The guy flying BUF to DCA will take forever to pick up silver while the guy doing LAX-PHL will pick up a lot faster, many times on lower yielding tickets.

Good luck to DL. Im sure many FF's will scream, but put your money where your mouth is. Many people who already are on the higher echelons of the elite programs probably wont be affected by this. I think it is the lower tiers that will get ticked off.

[Edited 2013-01-16 13:44:48]


The New American is arriving.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The program change to be rolled out by March 1st, would include the addition of a revenue component to achieving Medallion levels.

According to what was posted, then pulled, from Delta's website, the revenue component would go into effect beginning 1/1/2014. Fare-based MQM postings would go into effect 3/1/2014. The revenue component may also be made with a $25K spend on an appropriate AMEX card.

More details about what had been posted is here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...ta-com-updates-details-inside.html



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14284 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
new MQD thresholds which reportedly maybe $2,500 for Silver, up to $12,500 for Platinum

I believe the thresholds are something like:

$2500 for Silver (currently 25,000 MQMs)
$5000 for Gold (currently 50,000 MQMs)
$7500 for Platinum (currently 75,000 MQMs)
$12500 for Diamond (currently 125,000 MQMs)

which basically amounts to $0.10 per MQM.


User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14123 times:

Should be able to change title from rumor to fact in a day or so.....


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlinedeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 14090 times:

I don't see this as a huge issue. If you assume around $350/ticket (which for me is low), it's only 22 tickets/year for platinum or 35 for diamond. Most of those people will fly more than that, and probably pay more per ticket.

User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13931 times:

Hi All,

This type of change seems to have been swirling around for 2 years now in one form or another, so I am not particularly surprised. However, I am one of the people that it would presumably be the worst news to. I earn about 60k flying each year, but 80% of that is on leisure travel on cheaper fares. If I do spend 5K, it is just barely.

There are a couple of things I will be interested to see once everything is flushed out:

a) I actually live in the UK, and it seems non-US based flyers will not have to meet the MQD requirements. (for 2014 at least). So, will there be any changes that I face?

b) How does this work in conjunction with partners? Half of my travel a year is with AF/KL or other ST members. Will they credit MQD's for what I pay (if I were in the US)?

It will be interesting. I better enjoy my Gold Medallion now or at least find a job that will fly me more often if I hope to keep it.

Regards,

Team



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13932 times:

This isn't going to last if AA and UA don't follow suit. And with UA's merger issues and AA's BK, I doubt either will follow suit in the short term.

On one hand, sure, if AA and UA follow suit, what does it matter, because its not like customers have any choice.

On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

[Edited 2013-01-16 14:43:04]


a.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13706 times:

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 5):
Should be able to change title from rumor to fact in a day or so.....

Glad to hear it.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

I'm not sure this a problem for the business travel market.
A single ticket alone can be in the thousands so folks are likely to meet the thresholds easily.
Anyhow corporate contracts also often come with automatic status, so I don't see DL pushing this traffic away.

Such a change is meant to police the lower end traveler, the leisure traveler that might do some longer trips to earn status but does so on el chepo fares. If the SWA experience is an example, the shift can encourage folks to purchase up, or jump through new hoops to attain or retain status with subsequent yield improvement for the airline.

Basically the concept is simple - the more $$$ you bring, the more valuable client you are. Seems very fair imo.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 13624 times:

I can see a near meltdown coming over on Flyertalk   but this is long overdue IMHO. Total revenue is a far better indicator of benefit to a company than the number of times a purchase occurs. The old loyalty programs have just about run their day, in todays environment of cheaper fares (compared to when the programs were originally launched) focusing on the true revenue generator seems to make a lot more sense.

How long until the requirement is pure revenue based AND awards are revenue based?


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13542 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
On the other hand, AA and UA can use this to their huge advantage in a business travel market that remains cheap and continues to cut costs.

I'm not sure this a problem for the business travel market.
A single ticket alone can be in the thousands so folks are likely to meet the thresholds easily.
Anyhow corporate contracts also often come with automatic status, so I don't see DL pushing this traffic away.

I'm not talking about corporate contracts. I'm talking about the majority of businesses in this country, which don't book through a corporate travel office.



a.
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13393 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Anyhow corporate contracts also often come with automatic status, so I don't see DL pushing this traffic away.

I would question this as a fact. I work for a very large US company that has contracts with ALL of the US majors and many other majors throughout the world and only a select few get any benefits from our contract. All of my counterparts do not get any automatic benefits from the airlines. We have to earn it.
From our hotel partners we do get benefits from our corporate contracts

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
I'm not sure this a problem for the business travel market.

I will agree with this aspect. If the thresholds are as described above I would see this as an easy hurdle for the corporate folks.
I am a UA platinum traveler and would say that for me to get $12.5K would happen well before I hit the 75K miles requirement that exist for UA. Last year I spent over $40K for just about 80K in PQM.
Some of this is based on the markets and routes one flies, but it is only getting more expensive for a business traveler.
I really want to know who can get to silver without spending $2,500. That is such a small number.

I echo other comments that all of the boards for frequent fliers will explode with this news, but I feel this is not a big deal.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13333 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):
which basically amounts to $0.10 per MQM.

That's reasonable. I think it is easy to achieve on normal, discounted domestic travel. If you fly 25k miles a year domestically, even on deep discounts, that's easily $2500. Even at $400-500 R/T transcons, you should get there in dollars about the same time you get there with miles. If AMEX spends help, then a few thousand dollars a year make up the difference.

What it does is undercut those who earn status with a discounted long distance flight or two on a mileage partner airline. Those make DL no money and show no loyalty.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13294 times:

Last year I spent about 8k and just made silver!  

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13160 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 11):
I'm not talking about corporate contracts. I'm talking about the majority of businesses in this country, which don't book through a corporate travel office.

Again, I fail to see this is much an issue for business travelers or any one that is somewhat a regular traveler.

Spending up to $2,500 could be accomplished in a matter of a handful of domestic Y class flights flights, and even a $12,500 spend could be had with a few longer premium trips.

I am sure DL has done some homework to identify the type of customer it can either churn out of Medallion status, or encourage them to meet the added revenue thresholds.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 672 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13161 times:

DL should dump the miles and segments requirement. The program should be based only on revenue spent.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13139 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Again, I fail to see this is much an issue for business travelers or any one that is somewhat a regular traveler.

Perception. DL does it, UA and AA don't (and likely won't in the near term).

That's a problem. A big problem.

Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

[Edited 2013-01-16 18:00:40]


a.
User currently offlineakelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2162 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13097 times:

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 6):
I don't see this as a huge issue. If you assume around $350/ticket (which for me is low), it's only 22 tickets/year for platinum or 35 for diamond. Most of those people will fly more than that, and probably pay more per ticket.

I agree totally. $0.10 per MQM is very doable even on leisure fares. For example, LGA-FLL is around $200 on Delta in February. Round trip is approximately 2000 miles. One would have to do 25 round-trips for 50,000 miles and $5000. If someone has frequent business in Florida and goes there every other week, it's done.

[Edited 2013-01-16 18:18:44]

User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13070 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 13):
What it does is undercut those who earn status with a discounted long distance flight or two on a mileage partner airline. Those make DL no money and show no loyalty.

Just because we non-U.S. based Medallions (like myself) can only afford to fly once or twice a year on discounted long-haul flights does not mean we are any less loyal to Delta than those who live in the United States and can afford to fly DL on full-fare tickets year-round. It isn't my fault, therefore, that I chose to go to Europe flying KLM instead of going to the U.S. flying Delta.

I actually want to see how DL intends to roll this out outside the United States, where it would be difficult to meet the new revenue requirements, especially when DL merely flies us either to Japan or the United States.

[Edited 2013-01-16 18:06:22]

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12922 times:

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 19):
Just because we non-U.S. based Medallions (like myself) can only afford to fly once or twice a year on discounted long-haul flights does not mean we are any less loyal to Delta than those who live in the United States and can afford to fly DL on full-fare tickets year-round. It isn't my fault, therefore, that I chose to go to Europe flying KLM instead of going to the U.S. flying Delta.

But you offer no value to DL. Sorry, but you don't.

And if you actually read what I wrote, I said flying on PARTNER airlines, not on DL. DL gets no money from these people, yet has to give them status?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 672 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12866 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

Or maybe it does. Observation 1: the 100% bonus for F/J. Observation 2: the structure is telling customers that DL is not interested in the low spend customer. DL's target customer is the high spend customer and they are tailoring SkyMiles to attract those customers. If I had a lot of money I'd prefer this over flying around with the upgraders and unattractive IT consultants.


User currently offlinefanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1601 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12785 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):

If these numbers are correct, then I think this is a great way to go. I spend we'll over the PM level, but I know there are many who don't but achieve PM status. If we can eliminate some of those who game the system and compete on dollars, then I think this would be ok. The thresholds seem low enough to be a reasonable shift.



"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12744 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 20):
But you offer no value to DL. Sorry, but you don't.

And if you actually read what I wrote, I said flying on PARTNER airlines, not on DL. DL gets no money from these people, yet has to give them status?

Oh, I read that clearly, thanks.

I can concede to the argument if all your Skymiles members (and Medallions) are within the United States. I understand DL wanting to make status more meritocratic through introducing some sort of revenue requirement. But this smacks of the opposite: in effect, non-U.S. based Skymiles members who want to earn status will have to work much harder than the U.S.-based counterparts to earn status. That's unfair.

I've been loyal to DL for the last 13 years because I see the value in their program (aside from being grandfathered in when NW merged with DL), despite being convinced otherwise when I was still active on FlyerTalk. How is my loyalty any less valuable than yours, for example? Just because most of the people on this thread can afford to fly DL year-round and earn status in the process, we should antagonize frequent flyers who, by virtue of the random lottery of life, were born outside the United States, and by luck or circumstance, just happened to earn status by availing of the flights available to them? We shouldn't be penalized just because we decide to fly CZ, CI, KE, KL and the like, when DL only flies to Asia once or twice a day.

As far as I'm concerned, if this pushes through, especially outside the United States, there will be a lot of ill will in this part of the world. Low-yielding markets or not, DL gets a lot of traffic here, and I would presume we have a lot of FFs based in Asia (I know here we do, otherwise MNL wouldn't have a Sky Club). I hope they won't turn people off.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 17):
Perception. DL does it, UA and AA don't (and likely won't in the near term).

That's a problem. A big problem.

Skymiles is already arguably the worst FF program in the industry, and this doesn't help.

  


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1922 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12674 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 14):

I'd guess (too lazy to look) that I spent between $8k and $10k last year with delta and have no status. I guess that won't change though.


25 fanoftristars : Not so fast... Many of DL partners are also Joint Venture partners and they share risk/revenue on certain flights. For instance AF/KLM and Alitalia a
26 Cubsrule : That presumes that for business travelers, this will make it harder to get status. I don't know that that's true. In years in which I don't use DL fo
27 UALFAson : I get the idea in theory, but they've set the dollar spend low enough relative to the miles required that it would be so difficult to hit one and not
28 Cubsrule : You are half right, I think. There aren't too many folks who have status now who will not have status under the new system. But there seem to be a la
29 UALFAson : Ah, good point! Thanks for the personal example. I didn't think of the other side of the coin.
30 jetlanta : UA has been looking at something like this for at least a couple of years. It won't take them long to follow. The biggest issue has been the first-mo
31 Post contains images akelley728 : Let's clear up some misconceptions here.... The new Skymiles rules are for U.S. residents only. I hope that its because Delta realizes the challenges
32 Av8rDAL : Silver is essentially worthless anyway, aside for being called a Silver Medallion. Your best shot at upgrades is on empty flights on off-peak times,
33 PlaneInsomniac : Does anybody know whether "revenue" will includes taxes and fees, or will it only be based on the net fares? Will the bonus factors for existing elite
34 Akiestar : Apparently so (and what a relief, too!), but with DL scrubbing all details of the 2013 rule changes from their website according to people down at Fl
35 PI4EVER : As akelley728 pointed out, I understand you still must reach the MQM levels PLUS revenue $ to attain status. You can't buy 2 roundtrip tickets to Euro
36 Cubsrule : Then I guess I don't understand the point. These days, it's pretty hard to spend less than 10 cents a mile.
37 jerseyguy : Here's the deal, Delta is a business, they are here to make money. Therefore if your loyalty doesn't make them the same amount of money then another
38 0NEWAIR0 : I'm fairly certain this, very welcomed, change will not affect the majority of frequent flyers because the MQD values are so low. I did the math on th
39 Post contains links Akiestar : How do you build loyalty by gutting people from the program, and in the words of someone down at FlyerTalk, giving a big F-U to lower-tier elites? DL
40 Cubsrule : DL is interested in money, not loyalty. That's why they have the credit card qualification avenues they do. The easy way to not "give a big F-U to lo
41 Akiestar : Revenue begets loyalty. If people feel that DL doesn't value them, then what's the point of flying DL? Either way, DL risks flying those seats empty,
42 rwsea : For the majority of DELTA flyers, this probably won't have much impact. However, it will probably have an impact on the following: - "mileage runners"
43 Post contains links BD338 : [quote=Cubsrule,reply=28]I had 7 segments (BNA-ATL-BNA booked in M, BNA-ATL-CAE booked in Y, ILM-ATL-BNA booked in something very cheap, MSP-BNA book
44 Cubsrule : To DL, it does. (I'm not saying that choice is right or wrong, but it's different from how things were, say, a decade ago.) There isn't one unless DL
45 Post contains links Akiestar : According to DL, partner flights are not included unless they are booked on DL stock. To quote: http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...on-qualificati
46 RamblinMan : Or if it significantly pares down the ranks of elites, thereby increasing the upgrade chances for those who remain, along with other small changes li
47 Akiestar : The money spent on me flying DL is still money that goes to DL's pockets, so I don't buy the argument that they don't make any money from lower-tier
48 rwsea : Interesting. I'm curious how this will work then in the case that I fly PDX-AMS-DEL and return, for example. Half of the itinerary is on DL and the o
49 panamair : If the ticket is all on DL stock (ticket stock starting with 006), then you're OK. Or, if the entire itinerary is on the DL code, including the AMS-D
50 luv2fly : I think it is a good idea, DL is finally recognizing its loyal customers and rewarding them. It is about time someone had the balls to do it.
51 MSPNWA : I'd say if there's one thing that wasn't changed, it's the fact that SkyMiles, like most FF systems, are still a bundle of confusion. I'll stick to my
52 rivervisual : Any airline's BEST customers are those who fly a lot of miles AND buy higher yield tickets. Ulitmately, the mileage runner who buys cheap transcons do
53 dirtyfrankd : God I hope those numbers are accurate!! I would be able to qualify for Diamond within 4-5 months at that price!! I hope AA switches to a similar syst
54 Cubsrule : But as we've discussed, this program does not reward those who generate the most revenue. WN does. Depends on the fare class, no? If it's two full fa
55 WA707atMSP : And, neither does the occasional flyer who has to buy expensive tickets out of necessity. I have the misfortune to live in one DL fortress hub city (
56 Cubsrule : Part of the problem at DL - and the reason that WN's system works so well - is that fares don't necessarily correlate with trip length on DL. On WN i
57 globalflyer : Will this apply only for flights on DL metal or for all of SkyTeam flights? FOr example if I fly KE from JFK-ICN-BKK in JCL and it is booked on the KE
58 panamair : No, unless your KE-marketed/coded/operated flights are ticketed on Delta ticket stock (i.e., your ticket begins with "006"). The other way to get MQD
59 globalflyer : Thanks panamair.. I figured as much but appreciate your feedback. Totally makes sense since the $$$ would all go to DL on the DL code or codeshare.
60 PI4EVER : Read the details. You must accrue the MQM's, or MQS's *AND* the money minimum $12,500 to qualify for Diamond. And it damn sure is likely that if you
61 delta2ual : I wish all airlines would do this. I remember when WN rolled out their new program, many people didn't like it. I think the people who spend the most
62 AeroWesty : Reading these MQD requirements, I sure hope we see fewer and fewer people claim that flights under JVs are "metal neutral". Here's another example tha
63 Post contains images LAXintl : If anyone travels with any decent frequency to earn these high mileage totals, odds are they likely have spent quite a bit on the airline already. Th
64 redzeppelin : This really adds a new perspective to MQM rollovers. I earned Gold for 2013 partially due to the fact that I started 2012 with a big pile of rollover
65 flflyer : What impact (if any) will this have on lifetime gold members-2mm ?
66 redzeppelin : That was mentioned in the FAQs on delta.com. Million milers with lifetime status keep that status. But if they are trying to qualify for a higher lev
67 mah4546 : Today AA started status matching top-tier Delta DMs to EXP. No flying requirement needed - straight up status match. Not a coincidence, and a strong i
68 Cubsrule : No, it won't, and that's the problem. All it does is hurt passengers' perceptions of Delta. A truly revenue-based program would be smart and, I think
69 alitalia744 : Talk about dipping one toe in. Either DL should go all revenue based or not. The revenue and mileage correlation doesn't add up as one can spend $12,5
70 lhcvg : And in truth, the amount of flying to make that monetary threshold really IS minimal if you do ANY amount of flying more than a handful of times a ye
71 Josh32121 : I really don't understand all of the jumping to conclusions about these changes as nearly none of them go into effect until January 2014, which will a
72 UALFAson : Yeah, but who pays fares like this anymore? On a regular basis? How many people regularly fly roundtrip coast-to-coast for $249 anymore or U.S. to Eu
73 dcann40 : If someone regularly flies that trip, there's no way he wouldn't have Medallion status. He'd practically be silver in slightl over two trips.
74 mah4546 : $400 round-trip to Europe before taxes isn't rare. And, remember, the elite qualifying dollar amounts are pre-tax on Delta. Bingo.
75 SonomaFlyer : I never understood the airlines' decision to base status on miles/segments and NOT on revenue. If you truly want to reward those folks who are helping
76 AeroWesty : Airlines never really thought people would game the system to the degree that they do with mileage runs to earn status. Even Crandall admitted he mad
77 redzeppelin : Those $400 fares always include a big "taxes and fees component." When you look closely at the fees, there is always a big fuel surcharge included. T
78 ouboy79 : I really like WN's RR 2.0 vs. the original RR. When I have a chance to talk to people about it, I explain it this way. In the old system you needed 1
79 questions : I agree.
80 TeamInTheSky : Hi All, After a night to sleep on it, I am most flabbergasted by how they cut their international partners. As a fan of SkyTeam in general, they have
81 dcann40 : It's simple: when the programs started, there wasn't as much discounting. A lot has changed since then.
82 Josh32121 : My point was that that making that journey once was far more profitable for DL than the multiple cheap ATL-SFO journeys. Yet, making the transatlanti
83 airbazar : Why can't US carriers do what the rest of the world has always done: Don't give away miles on cheap fares? It's simple, effective and achieves the sam
84 redzeppelin : If you're traveling this year, go ahead and take UX/RO/KE. The changes don't become effective until 2014.
85 TeamInTheSky : From this website: https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/earn-miles/earn-miles-with-partners/airlines/air-europa.smt-gold.html Beginning M
86 Akiestar : It's not only UX. There will be a systematic gutting of MQMs across all SkyTeam partners except AM/KL/AF/AZ. A friend of mine who flies DL four times
87 TeamInTheSky : All very good points Akiestar. I would seem to be in the same boat as you. Upon further reflection, it would seem that while this MQD requirement doe
88 LAXintl : Is that not the whole point of a loyalty program ? Look, my supermarket gives out points for every dollar we spent. If I went to a different chain ea
89 Akiestar : That analogy would apply...if I was living in the United States. Unfortunately, I don't. Unless DL is suddenly granted eighth-freedom rights and will
90 Cubsrule : I guess I don't understand why you feel entitled to DL miles for any activity besides flying on DL metal. It seems to me that any miles they give you
91 Post contains images Akiestar : Simple. First, DL is a member of SkyTeam. Second, because my frequent flyer program is a SkyTeam partner FFP, I should be entitled to earn DL miles o
92 jetlanta : I'd expect to hear about other changes in the program sometime in the next several months. We've had one show drop. The benefits shoe is still hangin
93 Cubsrule : To me, alliances are much more about the benefits when flying (some of which DL doesn't do a very good job of) - things like seamless connections, lo
94 jetlanta : If the new benefits are as generous as I suspect they will be, then it will make prefect sense. There are far too many noncontributing (in terms of r
95 Cubsrule : I understand (and agree with) that, but I don't see a lot of culling based on the numbers DL has selected. They only require a spend of 10 cents a mi
96 SonomaFlyer : People seem to be confused about qualification with their j/v and alliance airlines. If you buy the ticket via DL, you qualify. They want the revenue
97 LAXintl : I agree, cheap fares should maybe not earn any miles, or like Air Canada you need to pay extra to get the miles included. However this is actually ph
98 ikramerica : This will weed out some silvers, and make it so some annual golds who don't produce enough revenue will only makd silver, some plats only gold, etc.
99 jetlanta : But you are making that assumption based some sort of feeling. The folks at Delta based the levels on real world data. I think what it SHOULD tell yo
100 ordwaw : It is more of an intellectual question ... Define U.S. resident to me ... I.e., which data elements (that it has access to) will the SkyMiles softwar
101 Akiestar : Oh, they're both for me, especially since I have status. But we don't get those benefits now if we're unable to accrue the mileage needed for elite s
102 ordwaw : That is what I am getting at. All they have is a contact mail address with a country. Those in the US, who still want to get the benefits of miles fl
103 Akiestar : Based on what's being said on FlyerTalk, DL might start asking for proof of residence abroad (billing statement, ID, etc.). I don't know how they'll
104 Cubsrule : Well, maybe. You suggested earlier that it's a first step. If it's a first step, there's no guarantee that it'll be (or is designed to be) effective
105 BarryH : The wildcard in all of this is what AA and UA do. If they don't match, DL could easily retract the requirement. Both UA and AA would be happy to have
106 delta2ual : I would love to see DL stick with it, but also revamp the rewards to their FF's: No blackout dates ever for mileage redemption tickets, etc. If they
107 cornutt : I fly out of a U.S. airport (HSV) where fares are high, and all of my flying is domestic over short/medium distances. So even though I do a lot of fli
108 Post contains links diverdave : You are 100% correct - Delta is selling MQMs at this very moment. http://dn.delta.com/skymiles/purchasemqms/buy/landing David
109 DLPMMM : AA had already made a first response...AA is Matching Delta Diamond FFers to AA's EXP level...no challange flying requirements, just a straight match
110 mcogator : Except for all the people flying from the Eastern US to SIN/BKK/MNL. Average fare is going to be around $1400, and so you remove the taxes it will be
111 usdcaguy : It would be interesting to know why you would switch to AA over a program change that you deem inconsequential. For the carriers, the problem with st
112 MSPNWA : Your situation is why I don't understand the new policy. Although the "and" requirement will weed out low-spending Silvers and such, the requirement
113 michman : I wouldn't necessarily discount this impact. There are probably quite a few Silver and Gold frequent flyers who chose their flights primarily on cost
114 cornutt : Yeah, that's the part that bothers me. RIght now, for the project that I'm working on at work, I'm doing HSV-SYR a lot. I just looked up on delta.com
115 AeroWesty : If you have elite status, you'd earn 1,760 MQMs each way via ATL/JFK with the 500-mile minimums. That's 21,120 MQMs for 6 round-trips.
116 DLPMMM : Delta has devalued skymiles so much by making availability at base pricing almost non-existant for international J class. It has also become almost i
117 BoeingGuy : I agree with this. I've posted about this before. I'm an AS mileage plan member and you never see DL awards show up on their web site. AA will usuall
118 panamair : I don't find that to be true at all; of the three (UA, DL, AA), I find that DL still has the best availability in advance; UA is the worst, and AA is
119 Cubsrule : Of course, that's hardly a fair fight. I'd hope that DL's DTW hub has better operational performance than UA and AA's ORD hubs, but if I need to get
120 panamair : Huh? I'm not talking about ATC issues here. I'm talking about the particular problems that UA and AA had in 2012 with their completion factors and pu
121 Cubsrule : If you suggest that the AA and UA problems were one-off or short term problems, how is 2012 alone relevant?
122 jayunited : UA is not the worst at upgrades it all depends on your status. UA has free domestic mainline upgrades which are available to everyone who has status
123 panamair : Huh? Not understanding you...if they are short-term and one-off, then 2012 alone should be relevant. ???
124 Cubsrule : You seemed to suggest that corporate travel would shift to DL because UA and AA are unreliable. But then you argued that UA and AA were unreliable fo
125 diverdave : Domestic base pricing availability on Delta is pretty wretched as well. David
126 ckfred : The problem I see with this is that employees on corporate expense accounts could very well start delaying the purchase of tickets, in order to have t
127 Post contains images jetlanta : The entire redemption situation is likely to be turned on its end. This revenue threshold requirement is only the first phase. I suspect it will allo
128 Cubsrule : I hope so. The trouble is that this incremental approach is irritating people who don't see any concrete benefits but see a detriment or potential de
129 AeroWesty : Sort of like the expanded Low award availability we were assured would materialize in the summer of 2011, when the T-72 rule on award changes was imp
130 Post contains images jetlanta : Feel better now? Seriously, redemptions have been a huge issue for Delta for a long time. Its not that they don't realize there are issues. The probl
131 Post contains images AeroWesty : So what you're saying is that past experience shouldn't be taken as a consideration of future results?
132 jetlanta : I'm saying that the new program is intended to provide a fundamental fix to issues that were basically unfixable in the current program. Some of whic
133 AeroWesty : It's the part where it is a matter of policy, where no consumer-friendly solutions are put forth that concerns most. To make promises, then leave peo
134 klkla : Please elaborate on specific fixes being made. I don't see any.
135 Post contains images jetlanta : I completely understand. What I'm saying is that the broken program couldn't be fixed until the technology would support the fixes. I've got a vested
136 Post contains images AeroWesty : Except that first, you said this: It made it sound as if DL would by policy, not implement fixes which would allow better access to awards until it (
137 jetlanta : If the tech can be implemented in early 2014, there is no reason benefits can't be.
138 AeroWesty : Except in the 2014 medallion year, the ranks of medallion elites will still be filled with those who've qualified without going through the MQD vetti
139 jetlanta : You could well be right. I'm not claiming any knowledge on specifics. What I am comfortable with is that MQDs aren't the end of the story and that to
140 klkla : It will be interesting to see if there's any push back from frequent flyers from these changes. Last year my spend with DL was $19K and I earned 138K
141 Post contains links AeroWesty : AA is doing status matches from DL Diamond to AA EXP right now, if you're interested. It requires a challenge: AA Matching DM to EXP
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