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Will Delta Announce EWR-FCO?  
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1179 posts, RR: 10
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8062 times:

Looks like it's official that Alitalia is out of EWR...
http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/14/a...medium=rss&utm_campaign=az-jfk-s13
Is it just a matter of time that Delta will announce new service to FCO from EWR?
Hopefully it won't be a little over a year as in the case of Delta picking up EWR-CDG.
We can possibly see a total of EWR-AMS/CDG/FCO/LHR in just over a years time...

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8056 times:

Here is the thing...with the JFK improvements, and AZ having service out of JFK, what is actually gained by EWR service? EWR is another big airport in NYC along with JFK I get that, but DL has to be very careful with how they approach serving EWR, because if they add too much service from EWR, it will pull traffic from JFK where they are investing a heck of a lot more money than EWR.

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7980 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
ut DL has to be very careful with how they approach serving EWR, because if they add too much service from EWR, it will pull traffic from JFK where they are investing a heck of a lot more money than EWR.

Not really. The AMS and soon CDG routes will likely support themselves. The only other competitor is United. At JFK there is far more competition on quite a few of their European routes. Plus EWR and JFK have different catchment areas. It's unlikely that someone in Long Island is going to go to EWR unless they are highly motivated to.

I think EWR-LHR on Delta is very likely once the JV is in place with Virgin. EWR-FCO, possibly. Alitalia in the past was able to operate it year round until recently. EWR-FCO is now only seasonal with UA. So I'd say it's possible.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32728 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7910 times:

No.

Firstly, DL and AZ, while part of the same venture, do not do flying for each other like DL/KL and DL/AF, and I doubt it will start with EWR.

Secondly, unlike other cases, AZ actually is keeping the capacity here. The EWRFCO frequency is simply moving over to an additional JFKFCO frequency - a consolidation of services. Do DL/AZ really want to add more capacity in one of the worst performing U.S.-EU markets? I don't think so.



a.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9335 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):

Secondly, unlike other cases, AZ actually is keeping the capacity here. The EWRFCO frequency is simply moving over to an additional JFKFCO frequency - a consolidation of services. Do DL/AZ really want to add more capacity in one of the worst performing U.S.-EU markets? I don't think so.

        
I don't see a point in DL flying this route



yep.
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7414 times:
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Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
Here is the thing...with the JFK improvements, and AZ having service out of JFK, what is actually gained by EWR service?

The fact DL has a business model that can actually make money on a route out of EWR with a 767 versus an A330 or 777 that AZ has. AZ is a notoriously badly-run airline and is bleeding red-ink. It's not a sure thing, but it's worth a shot and puts alittle bit of pressure on UA in their own backyard, which has it's own problems right now

[Edited 2013-01-17 13:36:21]


Made from jets!
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7355 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Here is the thing...with the JFK improvements, and AZ having service out of JFK, what is actually gained by EWR service?

So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK? Might as well fly out of EWR and connect somewhere -- the connection time will be similar to time lost in travel to JFK!


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7408 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7039 times:
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Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 6):
So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK? Might as well fly out of EWR and connect somewhere -- the connection time will be similar to time lost in travel to JFK!

And when was the last time you heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to JFK tomorrow!!!"??



Made from jets!
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6663 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 6):
So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK?

They can just fly United.

Can't have it both ways...EWR is a fortress hub. Back in the 80s and 90s when all of these Euro carriers started these routes, it was not.

Competition is fierce, economy is garbage, and JFK is the preferred gateway if you are only going to serve one airport.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1704 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 6588 times:
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Quoting tommy767 (Reply 2):

I'm not so sure that DL will be flying any VS routes instead of VS. VS doesn't have much beyond LHR connections and VS has a very different product and clientele than DL. I'm not sure UK point of sale VS pax would be too pleased to find themselves on Delta.


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 962 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

In my mind, the year-round EWR-CDG service will replace the seasonal EWR-FCO service. This is more about connectivity on the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV than service to Rome. Still, I could see why a DL nonstop to FCO might do well in the Summer because of all the ethnic Italians in Jersey, although I'm not sure they really have many ties in Italy anymore.

User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
Can't have it both ways...EWR is a fortress hub. Back in the 80s and 90s when all of these Euro carriers started these routes, it was not.

Well historically AZ had a major reason to serve EWR in the fact that they were partners with CO.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
EWR is another big airport in NYC along with JFK

EWW, sorry, EWR is actually in New Jersey. It might serve NYC area, but its not in NYC.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 7):
And when was the last time you heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to JFK tomorrow!!!"??

Quite a while, but I damn sure have NEVER heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to EWW''...sorry, EWR.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1179 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6277 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):
Quite a while, but I damn sure have NEVER heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to EWW''...sorry, EWR.

And I never heard anyone say I can't wait to drive to Lagarbage!

I think we will know soon enough if Delta picks this flight up. Many
at the airport seem to think we will.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6235 times:
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Why would Delta fly anything Newark to Europe, Virgin or not. Virgin Atlantic has flown EWR to London for 29 years and its should be the one to do so. Alitalia flew to Newark because Continental used to be a Skyteam Airline, its a legacy of that. The only Euopean airline that universally has loved EWR is SAS and I question that decision. With UA being the huge force it is at EWR, why doesn't every Star alliance airline move all their JFK flights to EWR ?

Because JFK is a huge important airport, none of the Japanesse airline( ANA is a Star airline) fly to EWR and none of the big Middle East airlines do either.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16859 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Isn't El Al a Middle Eastern airline?


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

Because if you want to win NYC you may want to cover it from all bases, I am not
Saying they will take over the route but if they ever do, they could claim they are
also growing at EWR. "Part of the strategy to win New York"


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6151 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

Why would Delta fly anything Newark to Europe, Virgin or not. Virgin Atlantic has flown EWR to London for 29 years and its should be the one to do so.

Generally agree. The carrier that is flying to its hub should be the one running the route for this to make sense from a marketing perspective. So AF EWR-CDG under the JV or VS EWR-LHR/LGW makes sense of course.

DL's presence inbound to CDG from markets like PIT are the exception of course, but it's reasonable in that that route (1) has incentives and (2) 757s are the best fit.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6132 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

El Al is a Middle Eastern airline.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 6):
So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK? Might as well fly out of EWR and connect somewhere -- the connection time will be similar to time lost in travel to JFK!

Why not? Both airports serve the same city, and neither are that far from each other (about 36 miles). Most cities would be glad to have such good international services from one airport, let alone two!



chase the sun
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
In my mind, the year-round EWR-CDG service will replace the seasonal EWR-FCO service

Didn't AF just ax EWR? DL took that over. This is an additional cut being replaced with nothing.

But I get your point. DL/AF/AZ will still connect EWR to their Euro hub and that is sufficient


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1618 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 19):
Why not? Both airports serve the same city, and neither are that far from each other (about 36 miles). Most cities would be glad to have such good international services from one airport, let alone two!chase the sun

True--especially at rush hour--you have to either go through the tunnel into midtown Manhattan and work your way east towatds the Van Wyck Expressway which is a parking lot a lot of the time. Or you can head south on the Jersey Tpk to Exit 13, cross the Goethals Bridge, cross Staten Island and the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge and follow the Belt Parkway out to JFK. Either way you are looking at a 1 1/2-2 hour trip. EWR is the logical choice for anyone living on the west side of the Hudson River.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

100% correct. The NY area is just too hard to travel around via car.

Each airport has enough of an area to work


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8337 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5834 times:
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Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 18):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):


El Al is a Middle Eastern airline.

For reasons that are obvious EL AL and Israel is a Special case. Half the Jewish people in the world live in Metro New Yrok.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16859 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5763 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):

EWW, sorry, EWR is actually in New Jersey. It might serve NYC area, but its not in NYC.

So are the Jets and the Giants, but doesn't stop the tens of thousands of New Yorkers from going to their games on Sundays (or Monday Nights) nor does it deter the City from hosting ticker tape parades *(well at least for the Giants) when they win the Super Bowl. Also I'm quite sure New York City will be spending quite a lot of time and money getting ready for the Super Bowl next year which is also in New Jersey.

All the airports, EWR, JFK, LGA and TEB, will be very busy next year with some interesting visitors for the Super Bowl.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 tommy767 : I find it funny the same people come out of the woods when it comes to DL at EWR threads. In 2009 the same people said EWR-AMS would fail, and last ye
26 jayunited : I don't see why Delta would need EWR-FCO, when they don't even fly JFK-FCO year around. JFK is the hub they are investing millions of dollars in I thi
27 willd : Thats where I think you are wrong. I think people dont care if their airline is seen as being the poor relationship in the JV. EWR-LHR will be the VS
28 hohd : DL can serve EWR-FCO and still not compete directly with UA. For one thing, competition already exists from JFK, and that keeps many European fares in
29 tommy767 : Doesn't VS have some unused slots at EWR? Perhaps they will be forced to give DL one. Wouldn't call it loyal, at all. Not with UA on the route 5x a d
30 jayunited : Even if they do have unused slots at EWR, Delta isn't interested in their EWR slots Delta wants and would like some of VS's LHR slots. VS has fought
31 alfa164 : As far as the original question is concerned... I think DL would grab EWR=FCO in a second if they could count on AZ to be as reliable a partner as AF
32 tommy767 : Then I ask you (if this is the case) what the hell is the point of JV if Virgin doesn't want to turn LHR slots over to Delta? Sounds pointless.
33 STT757 : They've never had more than the two daily flights they are currently running, so I don't know where the idea of excess slots would come from. VS at E
34 CODC10 : And by virtue of the transpacific joint venture, has a presence at EWR through United's EWR-NRT just as UA has a presence on JFK-NRT through NH. It d
35 Post contains images Deltal1011man : which would be the case here, the 763 would be a better airplane for the route vs a 330. Delta has hubs in CDG/AMS and FCO. (and soon LHR) Delta/Air
36 tommy767 : Rather weak that UA can't sustain at least several mainline a day on a highly lucrative business route.
37 CODC10 : Highly lucrative business traffic is not always the same as high volume traffic. I think you'd be fascinated to find that UA and DL are separated by
38 tommy767 : Ah CODC10, always on the EWR/United/Ex-CO defensive.
39 CODC10 : Not exactly... just responding to hyperbole (and ad hominem) with fact. With respect to EWR/UA/CO, I direct my attention to personal areas of interes
40 PIEAvantiP180 : You are absolutely correct that the two are not comparable. DL anything to ATL is always going to be a win for DL just because the freak of nature th
41 jfk777 : IF an airline strategy is to "win New York" then United should have all kinds of flights from JFK. UA can start with a few 787 JFK to LHR flights. Bu
42 DTWPurserBoy : FCO tends to be highly seasonal. NW used to suspend it for the winter out of DTW and I can see why DL does the same. Italy is just not that popular w
43 STT757 : I think UA is winning by offering destinations AA and DL do not offer from NY: Hong Kong Beijing Shanghai Delhi Mumbai Berlin Istanbul (year round) A
44 jfk777 : While United does get the kudos for flying to all those cities nonatop fron Newark, AA and DL do fly to Shanghai and Peking nonstop from other hubs,
45 CODC10 : All these points are valid, but weren't you talking about New York?
46 panamair : Not anymore.... the Delta and United of today are more than confident and content to leave unprofitable markets to others, unless the market is a hug
47 klwright69 : WOW. This thread is so full of ideas and pie in the sky. Any airline can do well in the summer to FCO, regardless of the Italians in Jersey. Can we no
48 NYCAdvantage : That is exactly my point, UA had a huge chance at JFK when they used to have T9, they went to IAD and just left JFK to AA, It is very doubtful they w
49 cokepopper : With todays environment, wouldn't it be more about alliance coverage? SkyTeam giving their members access to ALL of NYC. Not just Delta, but all of Sk
50 mah4546 : Oddly enough, BUD may be back in June.
51 delta2ual : They had year-round service (for many years). The reason they don't now is the same reason everyone is struggling in Italy: The economy there is awfu
52 flyguy1 : From JFK I assume?
53 rwy04lga : No problem with me. I've always argued that they should be named New Jersey Jets and the New Jersey Giants since they're IN New Jersey. And if they w
54 Deltal1011man : Your missing his points. 757 are evil JFK is "the" airport DL/UA should be more like PA and just try to burn money....yada yada. Just wasting your ti
55 AirAfreak : Just a slight correction. Alitalia flew to Newark before the existence of Skyteam. In those days, one would see a DC-10 in full CO-livery, half AZ/CO
56 jayunited : You are correct DL could run the ORD-LHR route year around on a 767 and make a profit. Since most comments on this topic seem to be in favor of DL ta
57 usdcaguy : I don't think VS needs to give anything away here. They will have a joint venture with DL (if approved) and will share revenue with them 50/50. The e
58 Post contains images jayunited : I understand the the benefits of a JV and as long as both airlines are in a JV they both reap the benefits of it. However a JV is not cast in cement t
59 nycfly75 : We should also be pointing out what a remarkable surge of flights AZ has concentrated at JFK since its "rebirth" in 2009. This summer, AZ will have 26
60 usdcaguy : It's not clear whether VS would "give" DL any slots in a sense that they would be Delta's forever. I would think it likely that DL would have settled
61 NW : Nothing will be givin to DL or VS. Look at the NW/KL JV and now the DL/KL/AF JV with respect to LHR. KL leased slots to NW and now those slots are le
62 factsonly : Lets check what options DELTA themselves present EWR passengers who wish to travel to FCO in late May 2013. - dep. EWR 17:50 - arr. AMS 07:35 DL034 B7
63 STT757 : Yes CO launched EWR-FCO in conjunction with AZ in 1992/1993 with a DC-10 that was painted one side in CO colors and another side in AZ colors. AZ the
64 tommy767 : EWR-CDG on DL doesn't start until June.
65 Post contains images factsonly : Haaaa.....that's why..... In June DELTA.com shows three options EWR-FCO, of which two are new: - via CDG - via AMS - via DTW So DL is able to move pl
66 Deltal1011man : that all depends on if Delta buys the slots or leases them for VS. It also depends on the contract for the slots. VS won't just "give" DL slots, they
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