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Will Delta Announce EWR-FCO?  
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8187 times:

Looks like it's official that Alitalia is out of EWR...
http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/14/a...medium=rss&utm_campaign=az-jfk-s13
Is it just a matter of time that Delta will announce new service to FCO from EWR?
Hopefully it won't be a little over a year as in the case of Delta picking up EWR-CDG.
We can possibly see a total of EWR-AMS/CDG/FCO/LHR in just over a years time...

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8181 times:

Here is the thing...with the JFK improvements, and AZ having service out of JFK, what is actually gained by EWR service? EWR is another big airport in NYC along with JFK I get that, but DL has to be very careful with how they approach serving EWR, because if they add too much service from EWR, it will pull traffic from JFK where they are investing a heck of a lot more money than EWR.

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8105 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
ut DL has to be very careful with how they approach serving EWR, because if they add too much service from EWR, it will pull traffic from JFK where they are investing a heck of a lot more money than EWR.

Not really. The AMS and soon CDG routes will likely support themselves. The only other competitor is United. At JFK there is far more competition on quite a few of their European routes. Plus EWR and JFK have different catchment areas. It's unlikely that someone in Long Island is going to go to EWR unless they are highly motivated to.

I think EWR-LHR on Delta is very likely once the JV is in place with Virgin. EWR-FCO, possibly. Alitalia in the past was able to operate it year round until recently. EWR-FCO is now only seasonal with UA. So I'd say it's possible.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8035 times:

No.

Firstly, DL and AZ, while part of the same venture, do not do flying for each other like DL/KL and DL/AF, and I doubt it will start with EWR.

Secondly, unlike other cases, AZ actually is keeping the capacity here. The EWRFCO frequency is simply moving over to an additional JFKFCO frequency - a consolidation of services. Do DL/AZ really want to add more capacity in one of the worst performing U.S.-EU markets? I don't think so.



a.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 7928 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 3):

Secondly, unlike other cases, AZ actually is keeping the capacity here. The EWRFCO frequency is simply moving over to an additional JFKFCO frequency - a consolidation of services. Do DL/AZ really want to add more capacity in one of the worst performing U.S.-EU markets? I don't think so.

        
I don't see a point in DL flying this route



yep.
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7539 times:
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Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
Here is the thing...with the JFK improvements, and AZ having service out of JFK, what is actually gained by EWR service?

The fact DL has a business model that can actually make money on a route out of EWR with a 767 versus an A330 or 777 that AZ has. AZ is a notoriously badly-run airline and is bleeding red-ink. It's not a sure thing, but it's worth a shot and puts alittle bit of pressure on UA in their own backyard, which has it's own problems right now

[Edited 2013-01-17 13:36:21]


Made from jets!
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7480 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 5):
Here is the thing...with the JFK improvements, and AZ having service out of JFK, what is actually gained by EWR service?

So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK? Might as well fly out of EWR and connect somewhere -- the connection time will be similar to time lost in travel to JFK!


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 7164 times:
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Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 6):
So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK? Might as well fly out of EWR and connect somewhere -- the connection time will be similar to time lost in travel to JFK!

And when was the last time you heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to JFK tomorrow!!!"??



Made from jets!
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6788 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 6):
So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK?

They can just fly United.

Can't have it both ways...EWR is a fortress hub. Back in the 80s and 90s when all of these Euro carriers started these routes, it was not.

Competition is fierce, economy is garbage, and JFK is the preferred gateway if you are only going to serve one airport.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6713 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 2):

I'm not so sure that DL will be flying any VS routes instead of VS. VS doesn't have much beyond LHR connections and VS has a very different product and clientele than DL. I'm not sure UK point of sale VS pax would be too pleased to find themselves on Delta.


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 6550 times:

In my mind, the year-round EWR-CDG service will replace the seasonal EWR-FCO service. This is more about connectivity on the DL/AF/KL/AZ JV than service to Rome. Still, I could see why a DL nonstop to FCO might do well in the Summer because of all the ethnic Italians in Jersey, although I'm not sure they really have many ties in Italy anymore.

User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 6519 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
Can't have it both ways...EWR is a fortress hub. Back in the 80s and 90s when all of these Euro carriers started these routes, it was not.

Well historically AZ had a major reason to serve EWR in the fact that they were partners with CO.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
EWR is another big airport in NYC along with JFK

EWW, sorry, EWR is actually in New Jersey. It might serve NYC area, but its not in NYC.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 7):
And when was the last time you heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to JFK tomorrow!!!"??

Quite a while, but I damn sure have NEVER heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to EWW''...sorry, EWR.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):
Quite a while, but I damn sure have NEVER heard someone say "I can't wait to drive all the way out to EWW''...sorry, EWR.

And I never heard anyone say I can't wait to drive to Lagarbage!

I think we will know soon enough if Delta picks this flight up. Many
at the airport seem to think we will.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8501 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6360 times:
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Why would Delta fly anything Newark to Europe, Virgin or not. Virgin Atlantic has flown EWR to London for 29 years and its should be the one to do so. Alitalia flew to Newark because Continental used to be a Skyteam Airline, its a legacy of that. The only Euopean airline that universally has loved EWR is SAS and I question that decision. With UA being the huge force it is at EWR, why doesn't every Star alliance airline move all their JFK flights to EWR ?

Because JFK is a huge important airport, none of the Japanesse airline( ANA is a Star airline) fly to EWR and none of the big Middle East airlines do either.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

Isn't El Al a Middle Eastern airline?


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

Because if you want to win NYC you may want to cover it from all bases, I am not
Saying they will take over the route but if they ever do, they could claim they are
also growing at EWR. "Part of the strategy to win New York"


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

Why would Delta fly anything Newark to Europe, Virgin or not. Virgin Atlantic has flown EWR to London for 29 years and its should be the one to do so.

Generally agree. The carrier that is flying to its hub should be the one running the route for this to make sense from a marketing perspective. So AF EWR-CDG under the JV or VS EWR-LHR/LGW makes sense of course.

DL's presence inbound to CDG from markets like PIT are the exception of course, but it's reasonable in that that route (1) has incentives and (2) 757s are the best fit.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 3339 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6257 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

El Al is a Middle Eastern airline.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 6):
So everyone wanting to go to Rome from west of the Hudson River or parts of NYC should automatically just head for JFK? Might as well fly out of EWR and connect somewhere -- the connection time will be similar to time lost in travel to JFK!

Why not? Both airports serve the same city, and neither are that far from each other (about 36 miles). Most cities would be glad to have such good international services from one airport, let alone two!



chase the sun
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6197 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
In my mind, the year-round EWR-CDG service will replace the seasonal EWR-FCO service

Didn't AF just ax EWR? DL took that over. This is an additional cut being replaced with nothing.

But I get your point. DL/AF/AZ will still connect EWR to their Euro hub and that is sufficient


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1780 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 19):
Why not? Both airports serve the same city, and neither are that far from each other (about 36 miles). Most cities would be glad to have such good international services from one airport, let alone two!chase the sun

True--especially at rush hour--you have to either go through the tunnel into midtown Manhattan and work your way east towatds the Van Wyck Expressway which is a parking lot a lot of the time. Or you can head south on the Jersey Tpk to Exit 13, cross the Goethals Bridge, cross Staten Island and the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge and follow the Belt Parkway out to JFK. Either way you are looking at a 1 1/2-2 hour trip. EWR is the logical choice for anyone living on the west side of the Hudson River.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6064 times:

100% correct. The NY area is just too hard to travel around via car.

Each airport has enough of an area to work


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8501 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5959 times:
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Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 18):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):


El Al is a Middle Eastern airline.

For reasons that are obvious EL AL and Israel is a Special case. Half the Jewish people in the world live in Metro New Yrok.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):

EWW, sorry, EWR is actually in New Jersey. It might serve NYC area, but its not in NYC.

So are the Jets and the Giants, but doesn't stop the tens of thousands of New Yorkers from going to their games on Sundays (or Monday Nights) nor does it deter the City from hosting ticker tape parades *(well at least for the Giants) when they win the Super Bowl. Also I'm quite sure New York City will be spending quite a lot of time and money getting ready for the Super Bowl next year which is also in New Jersey.

All the airports, EWR, JFK, LGA and TEB, will be very busy next year with some interesting visitors for the Super Bowl.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5846 times:

I find it funny the same people come out of the woods when it comes to DL at EWR threads. In 2009 the same people said EWR-AMS would fail, and last year they said DL would never operate EWR-CDG after AF dropped it. Turns out they were wrong on both occasions.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
They can just fly United.

Can't have it both ways...EWR is a fortress hub. Back in the 80s and 90s when all of these Euro carriers started these routes, it was not.

Actually, you can definitely have it both ways. Fortress hub has nothing to do with it. United has a hold on EWR, but airlines like B6 and DL are proving that there is plenty of room to make a buck in markets that UA prices it out in. For instance why do you think so many leisure travelers are flying B6 to Florida from EWR? It's because UA's fares are completely insane. Thankfully there are other alternatives because back in 2006-2007 CO was price controlling EWR and there weren't many other alternatives compared to now. I find it hilarious that DL operates EWR-ATL 11 mainline flights a day and all that UA can throw up against them are 4-5 E145s and 1-2 E170s.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
I'm not so sure that DL will be flying any VS routes instead of VS. VS doesn't have much beyond LHR connections and VS has a very different product and clientele than DL. I'm not sure UK point of sale VS pax would be too pleased to find themselves on Delta.

Not a logical reason at all. There has been so much JV crossfleeting between AF/DL and yet the same argument prevails: DL is in no way, shape, or form on the same level as AF and people will notice. Well that hasn't exactly worked out in markets like ORD, SEA, and PHL. People really don't care if it's AF, DL, VS, or whatever it's an option to get from the US to Europe. All of these carriers have strong J products, and that is what matters.

I do highly anticipate that at least 1x EWR-LHR will eventually go to Delta -- it's just a matter of when.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):

In my mind, the year-round EWR-CDG service will replace the seasonal EWR-FCO service.

EWR-CDG on Delta is replacing AF's presence on the route. Rome and Paris are two highly different markets.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 24):
So are the Jets and the Giants, but doesn't stop the tens of thousands of New Yorkers from going to their games on Sundays (or Monday Nights) nor does it deter the City from hosting ticker tape parades *(well at least for the Giants) when they win the Super Bowl.

Before we get into another JFK vs. EWR argument can we all agree that both areas are crowded wastelands where everyone is rude, pissed off, and miserable?



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5783 times:

I don't see why Delta would need EWR-FCO, when they don't even fly JFK-FCO year around. JFK is the hub they are investing millions of dollars in I think they would first want to establish year around daily service from their hub in JFK before expanding to EWR.

And as far as them flying EWR-LHR even with a JV coming I don't see VS turning over any slots to DL on this or any other route. I'll go even further out on a limb and say that as long as Sir Richard holds a majority stake in VS I don't see VS turning over any slots at LHR to DL, those slots are to valuable. If I was Sir Richard I would hold every slot I already have at LHR because DL is not merging with VS. So what would keep DL form selling is 49% in VS, if VS were to turn some valuable LHR slots over to DL? I'm sure DL wants more LHR slots but Richard is a smart man I highly doubt that he will give DL any of his slots just because they are going to be in a JV. Although JV's means the 2 airlines are now sharing everything the one thing that is not included in this JV is the all important slots at LHR. I'm almost positive that if DL gets its hands on some of VS slots at LHR they would sell their 49% stake almost immediately.


User currently offlinewilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 5791 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 25):
eople really don't care if it's AF, DL, VS, or whatever it's an option to get from the US to Europe. All of these carriers have strong J products, and that is what matters.

Thats where I think you are wrong. I think people dont care if their airline is seen as being the poor relationship in the JV. EWR-LHR will be the VS market, they already have a loyal following. I can think of a lot of people that will be rather peeved off if they rock up to find DL operating the route and will either take their business elsewhere or start selecting the VS flight.

In the same way, do you think that VS are going to start operating LHR-ATL (taking one of DL's ATL flights) because of hte JV?

I struggle to see how you can say the DL J product is strong. Yes its along the same lines as the UCS on VS in terms of the physical seat but there is no Clubhouse, Upper Class Wing, free beauty salon etc etc with DL. I bet, where both airlines, have a Skyclub and a Clubhouse, the Clubhouse will become packed with DL J passengers and the Skyclub will empty.

British people are very brand loyal and nationalistic, even more so at the moment. US airlines, rightly or wrongly, have a very poor name in the UK. It can hardly be coincidence that whenever BA have a sale (especially in premium cabins) the only real sale prices are on those flights operated by AA under the JV.

Anyway back on topic.


User currently offlinehohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week ago) and read 5721 times:

DL can serve EWR-FCO and still not compete directly with UA. For one thing, competition already exists from JFK, and that keeps many European fares in check even from UA from EWR. EWR is not as much fortress hub as UA wants it to be.

User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week ago) and read 5698 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26):
nd as far as them flying EWR-LHR even with a JV coming I don't see VS turning over any slots to DL on this or any other route. I'll go even further out on a limb and say that as long as Sir Richard holds a majority stake in VS I don't see VS turning over any slots at LHR to DL, those slots are to valuable. If I was Sir Richard I would hold every slot I already have at LHR because DL is not merging with VS.

Doesn't VS have some unused slots at EWR? Perhaps they will be forced to give DL one.

Quoting willd (Reply 27):
Thats where I think you are wrong. I think people dont care if their airline is seen as being the poor relationship in the JV. EWR-LHR will be the VS market, they already have a loyal following.

Wouldn't call it loyal, at all. Not with UA on the route 5x a day, BA 3x a day. VS with only 2x is technically the weakest link.

Quoting willd (Reply 27):
In the same way, do you think that VS are going to start operating LHR-ATL (taking one of DL's ATL flights) because of hte JV?

I think it's absolutely possible. That's the whole point of JV. What makes Virgin any better than Air France or KLM?

Quoting willd (Reply 27):
I struggle to see how you can say the DL J product is strong. Yes its along the same lines as the UCS on VS in terms of the physical seat but there is no Clubhouse, Upper Class Wing, free beauty salon etc etc with DL. I bet, where both airlines, have a Skyclub and a Clubhouse, the Clubhouse will become packed with DL J passengers and the Skyclub will empty.

Well let's put it this way (and this has been argued before) VS and DL have their respective strengths and weaknesses. VS has a significantly better club offering, although the Sky Club is no slouch either. On board, I'd give hard product a slight edge to VS, but the food is pretty weak. I think DL wins out with catering in Business Elite rather easily.

At the end of the day it's a wash. Virgin isn't that great.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 29):
Doesn't VS have some unused slots at EWR? Perhaps they will be forced to give DL one.

Even if they do have unused slots at EWR, Delta isn't interested in their EWR slots Delta wants and would like some of VS's LHR slots. VS has fought to hard over the years to gain more slots at LHR to simply turn them over to Delta, and I really don't think that Delta can force them into turning them over.

I don't know why SQ bought 49% of VS years ago, whatever the reason was I don't think SQ gained much for their partnership with VS. However we all know why DL purchased a 49% stake in VS they want more access into LHR. But I'm pretty sure there was nothing in the deal that DL could use to force VS to give up some slots at LHR although I sure DL will try very hard to convince VS that on certain routs their 767 are better suited, I don't think VS will fall for it those slots are too valuable to them.


User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

As far as the original question is concerned...

I think DL would grab EWR=FCO in a second if they could count on AZ to be as reliable a partner as AF and KL are. DL has long wanted to use FCO (and previously MXP) as a codeshare European hub, but AZ's precarious stability has prevented a full-scale relationship.

If AZ gets itself straightened-out - or even if it looks like things are beginning to look favorable - I think you'd see DL add EWR-FCO flights.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
VS has fought to hard over the years to gain more slots at LHR to simply turn them over to Delta, and I really don't think that Delta can force them into turning them over.

Then I ask you (if this is the case) what the hell is the point of JV if Virgin doesn't want to turn LHR slots over to Delta? Sounds pointless.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 29):

Doesn't VS have some unused slots at EWR?

They've never had more than the two daily flights they are currently running, so I don't know where the idea of excess slots would come from.

VS at EWR has had the following since 1984

EWR-LGW 1 daily
EWR-LGW 2 daily
EWR-LGW 1 daily + EWR-LHR 1 daily
EWR-LHR 2 daily



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2462 posts, RR: 6
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
( ANA is a Star airline)

And by virtue of the transpacific joint venture, has a presence at EWR through United's EWR-NRT just as UA has a presence on JFK-NRT through NH.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 24):
nor does it deter the City from hosting ticker tape parades *(well at least for the Giants)

It did following XXI and XXV...

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 25):
I find it hilarious that DL operates EWR-ATL 11 mainline flights a day and all that UA can throw up against them are 4-5 E145s and 1-2 E170s.

Simply because the EWR-ATL market is not as massive as the DL presence implies. Delta is pushing a lot of EWR-originating traffic over ATL to destinations in the Southeast, Latin America, South America and beyond. Meanwhile, most of the traffic on UA to Atlanta is local in nature. The sheer power of the hub Delta has built at ATL inevitably skews comparions on this basis.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 32):
Then I ask you (if this is the case) what the hell is the point of JV if Virgin doesn't want to turn LHR slots over to Delta? Sounds pointless.

Just to name a few: revenue sharing, limiting competition, legalized collusion, schedule coordination, marketing. The JV means so much more than just trading operators on random routes.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Quoting Sligo (Reply 17):

DL's presence inbound to CDG from markets like PIT are the exception of course, but it's reasonable in that that route (1) has incentives and (2) 757s are the best fit.

which would be the case here, the 763 would be a better airplane for the route vs a 330.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 17):
Generally agree. The carrier that is flying to its hub should be the one running the route for this to make sense from a marketing perspective. So AF EWR-CDG under the JV or VS EWR-LHR/LGW makes sense of course.

Delta has hubs in CDG/AMS and FCO. (and soon LHR) Delta/Air France/KLM/AZ and soon Virgin are going to be one airline across the Atlantic.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
Quoting willd (Reply 27):

Thats where I think you are wrong. I think people dont care if their airline is seen as being the poor relationship in the JV. EWR-LHR will be the VS market, they already have a loyal following. I can think of a lot of people that will be rather peeved off if they rock up to find DL operating the route and will either take their business elsewhere or start selecting the VS flight.

Yeah yeah, just like all the people that are pissed because Delta has taken over some AF routes. yada yada.  

If Delta has the right plane for EWR-LHR, then that is who will fly it. Most of the public wont care, those that do can.....I guess swim.



yep.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 34):
Simply because the EWR-ATL market is not as massive as the DL presence implies. Delta is pushing a lot of EWR-originating traffic over ATL to destinations in the Southeast, Latin America, South America and beyond. Meanwhile, most of the traffic on UA to Atlanta is local in nature. The sheer power of the hub Delta has built at ATL inevitably skews comparions on this basis.

Rather weak that UA can't sustain at least several mainline a day on a highly lucrative business route.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2462 posts, RR: 6
Reply 37, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4489 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
Rather weak that UA can't sustain at least several mainline a day on a highly lucrative business route.

Highly lucrative business traffic is not always the same as high volume traffic. I think you'd be fascinated to find that UA and DL are separated by only a few percentage points (single digits) in terms of share of the EWR-ATL local market, something like 37% (UA) to 42% (DL). With respect to passengers carried, Delta nearly triples United (including UAX) because of their overwhelming capacity advantage due to demand for connections over the ATL hub.

The difference is the strength of the ATL hub. It really has very little to do with United 'neglecting' the market. Given current traffic patterns, the existing schedule operated all-mainline would result in gross overcapacity for UA.


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 38, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4439 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 37):
The difference is the strength of the ATL hub. It really has very little to do with United 'neglecting' the market. Given current traffic patterns, the existing schedule operated all-mainline would result in gross overcapacity for UA.

Ah CODC10, always on the EWR/United/Ex-CO defensive.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2462 posts, RR: 6
Reply 39, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4328 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 38):
Ah CODC10, always on the EWR/United/Ex-CO defensive.

Not exactly... just responding to hyperbole (and ad hominem) with fact. With respect to EWR/UA/CO, I direct my attention to personal areas of interest. What's the problem with that?


User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 558 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 37):

You are absolutely correct that the two are not comparable. DL anything to ATL is always going to be a win for DL just because the freak of nature that ATL is and the shear scope of operation that DL runs out of there. The closest match that DL has on any routes out of ATL is AA to DFW on 8 daily mainline flights compared to 10 for DL, and AA at DFW is the worlds second biggest single airline hub after DL in ATL. UA out of EWR is geared for limited connections out of Northeast and Europe to ATL plus NYC O&D, while DL has the O&D plus the weight of ATL connections to fill its planes to and from EWR.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8501 posts, RR: 6
Reply 41, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3886 times:
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Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 16):
Because if you want to win NYC you may want to cover it from all bases, I am not
Saying they will take over the route but if they ever do, they could claim they are
also growing at EWR. "Part of the strategy to win New York"

IF an airline strategy is to "win New York" then United should have all kinds of flights from JFK. UA can start with a few 787 JFK to LHR flights. But they probably won't.


User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1780 posts, RR: 7
Reply 42, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26):
I don't see why Delta would need EWR-FCO, when they don't even fly JFK-FCO year around. JFK is the hub they are investing millions of dollars in I think they would first want to establish year around daily service from their hub in JFK before expanding to EWR.

FCO tends to be highly seasonal. NW used to suspend it for the winter out of DTW and I can see why DL does the same. Italy is just not that popular with travelers in the winter as it gets quite cold. And grillling hot in the summer! I think DL wants to poach some pax from other carriers--it's all about market share.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 43, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 41):
IF an airline strategy is to "win New York" then United should have all kinds of flights from JFK.

I think UA is winning by offering destinations AA and DL do not offer from NY:

Hong Kong
Beijing
Shanghai
Delhi
Mumbai
Berlin
Istanbul (year round)

Are all pretty important International markets.

[Edited 2013-01-19 06:43:18]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8501 posts, RR: 6
Reply 44, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3754 times:
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Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):
I think UA is winning by offering destinations AA and DL do not offer from NY:

Hong Kong
Beijing
Shanghai
Delhi
Mumbai

Are all pretty important International markets

While United does get the kudos for flying to all those cities nonatop fron Newark, AA and DL do fly to Shanghai and Peking nonstop from other hubs, UA nonstop itself flies to those cities from ORD and SFO as well. AA doesn't fly to HKG because Cathay covers that market well for Oneworld. AA and Delta have had flights nonstop from the USA to India but for costs reasons discontinued those flights. All Big 3 US airlines have nonstop to China, India is 3 hours more so flying nonstop is a challenged. Hong Kong has been flown by United and Delta for decades, AA will probably fly there when the 787-9 arrive.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2462 posts, RR: 6
Reply 45, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 44):

All these points are valid, but weren't you talking about New York?


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 46, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days ago) and read 3672 times:
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Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 42):
it's all about market share.

Not anymore.... the Delta and United of today are more than confident and content to leave unprofitable markets to others, unless the market is a huge part of their overall strategy....Delta pulled out of JFK-BUD and JFK-MAN and left those to AA, and AA eventually pulled BUD too....United pulled out of ACC, DME, etc., leaving Delta to be the sole nonstop from the U.S. to those markets, etc.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2100 posts, RR: 3
Reply 47, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days ago) and read 3636 times:

WOW. This thread is so full of ideas and pie in the sky.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 10):
Still, I could see why a DL nonstop to FCO might do well in the Summer because of all the ethnic Italians in Jersey, although I'm not sure they really have many ties in Italy anymore.

Any airline can do well in the summer to FCO, regardless of the Italians in Jersey.

Can we not get into the whole EWR vs JFK situation? That discussion has been going round and round on a.net for ages. If it continues this thread should be locked.

UA's vs DL's presence in EWR-ATL has little to do with UA being some inadequate, 3rd rate airline, it's due more to the nature of the market, most likely. I am sure UA could upgrade and add flights if they wanted or needed to. That is another ridiculous sidebar topic.

If UA does not serve FCO year round from EWR, and DL does not go year round from JFK either, that should tell you something right there. It's clearly a seasonal market. It seems hardly worth the trouble. If UA does not maintain it year round that should be a huge red flag.

Why would VS turn over a precious slot at LHR so that DL to serve EWR-LHR? They sure wouldn't do it for free. Would DL pay big bucks for a slot at LHR to serve EWR, and they would do this and still be behind BA and UA in the market? It seems like a costly investment for something with limited appeal. We are always told by all the experts in this forum that the precious high yield traffic is out of JFK anyway, right? This is like suggesting UA should add some JFK-LHR frequencies. A very expensive proposition of limited value.


User currently onlineNYCAdvantage From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 41):

That is exactly my point, UA had a huge chance at JFK when they used to have T9, they went to IAD and just left JFK to AA, It is very doubtful they will come back unless they buy VX and you wonder how big the chances of that happening, I think DL will look in to them before anyone else, just because of their ties with SRB, in the other hand DL is putting their eggs in different baskets, even thou they will never be what UA is at EWR, Very wisely in a slowly cautious manner DL is sneaking into EWR under the umbrella "winning New York", getting international O/D market just giving an option to NJ and the Wall Street market that rader travel from EWR.


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 49, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

With todays environment, wouldn't it be more about alliance coverage? SkyTeam giving their members
access to ALL of NYC. Not just Delta, but all of SkyTeam? If AF/KL/AZ decide to pull out of EWR
why wouldn't Delta keep the coverage as they are doing with AMS/CDG. Also with the argument of
"east/west" of the Hudson. I believe the recent toll increases and the price of gas make these two
airports even further apart..


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 50, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 46):
and AA eventually pulled BUD too.

Oddly enough, BUD may be back in June.



a.
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26):
I think they would first want to establish year around daily service from their hub in JFK before expanding to EWR.

They had year-round service (for many years). The reason they don't now is the same reason everyone is struggling in Italy: The economy there is awful. I'm sure when (or if) Italy recovers, things will pick up (as an Italian citizen, I sure hope so!)

Quoting jayunited (Reply 30):
But I'm pretty sure there was nothing in the deal that DL could use to force VS to give up some slots at LHR although I sure DL will try very hard to convince VS that on certain routs their 767 are better suited

I don't think this deal is about DL taking anything away from VS; nor do I think DL is just trying to steal slots away and then sell their stake. The whole point of the JV is to maximise profits for both carriers. VS has struggled with routes like ORD-LHR because they don't have the right capacity aircraft to fly it economically year-round. A DL 767 would probably be able to do just that.



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlineflyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 50):
Oddly enough, BUD may be back in June.

From JFK I assume?



727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 24):
So are the Jets and the Giants, but doesn't stop the tens of thousands of New Yorkers from going to their games on Sundays (or Monday Nights) nor does it deter the City from hosting ticker tape parades *(well at least for the Giants) when they win the Super Bowl. Also I'm quite sure New York City will be spending quite a lot of time and money getting ready for the Super Bowl next year which is also in New Jersey.

No problem with me. I've always argued that they should be named New Jersey Jets and the New Jersey Giants since they're IN New Jersey. And if they want to have a 'Canyon of Heros' parade, fine with me. Not that any of them would consult me on these matters.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 54, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 43):

Your missing his points.
757 are evil
JFK is "the" airport
DL/UA should be more like PA and just try to burn money....yada yada. Just wasting your time. UA is doing just fine with what they do, but logic is missed by some.

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 49):
With todays environment, wouldn't it be more about alliance coverage? SkyTeam giving their members
access to ALL of NYC. Not just Delta, but all of SkyTeam? If AF/KL/AZ decide to pull out of EWR
why wouldn't Delta keep the coverage as they are doing with AMS/CDG. Also with the argument of
"east/west" of the Hudson. I believe the recent toll increases and the price of gas make these two
airports even further apart..

because Delta has feed over CDG/AMS, FCO becomes unnecessary. Also, looking at all three of those economies Italy is by far the worst. (and it doesn't help that AZ can't seem to do anything to make any money)



yep.
User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2959 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):

Just a slight correction. Alitalia flew to Newark before the existence of Skyteam. In those days, one would see a DC-10 in full CO-livery, half AZ/CO-livery with a decal Continental/Alitalia (with logos) and then the title "Alliance" underneath. Continental and Alitalia operated a joint-venture service between Newark-Milan & v.v. and also Newark-Rome & v.v.

I think there were dedicated gates in Terminal C - Gates 120/121 ?

I miss those days of occasionally seeing a Continental Micronesia DC-10 at Newark Airport. =]


Bon Voyage,

Air Afreak =]



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 51):
I don't think this deal is about DL taking anything away from VS; nor do I think DL is just trying to steal slots away and then sell their stake. The whole point of the JV is to maximise profits for both carriers. VS has struggled with routes like ORD-LHR because they don't have the right capacity aircraft to fly it economically year-round. A DL 767 would probably be able to do just that.

You are correct DL could run the ORD-LHR route year around on a 767 and make a profit. Since most comments on this topic seem to be in favor of DL taking over some of VS routes which means VS would have to turn over some slots at LHR to DL, if DL then decided years down the road to sell their 49% stake in VS and end their JV so they simply turn those slots back over to VS or would DL get to keep the slots they gained in this JV?

In my opinion that is the question VS has to deal with we all know DL entered this deal with the hope of gaining more access into LHR. What VS now faces in my opinion is a tuff do they give DL some of their slots at LHR and take the profit or do they hold on to the slots? It may seem like an easy question (take the profit) but it isn't that simple because VS has to protect themselves and there future interest. So if DL deciders to sell their stake in lets say 5 or 10 years is there anything in this deal that would require DL to give VS back and and all slots VS would give them during a JV?


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 56):
In my opinion that is the question VS has to deal with we all know DL entered this deal with the hope of gaining more access into LHR. What VS now faces in my opinion is a tuff do they give DL some of their slots at LHR and take the profit or do they hold on to the slots?

I don't think VS needs to give anything away here. They will have a joint venture with DL (if approved) and will share revenue with them 50/50. The entire point is access in general, not just to LHR. VS seems to have some difficulties really generating traffic exit US, especially corporate business. DL, on the other hand, does not seem to have a strong brand within the UK (huge topic that merits discussion). Combined, DL will bring VS more feed exit the US while DL will benefit from codesharing with VS exit the UK, and they will both be able to offer an integrated network over the Atlantic that serves a number of main business markets, not just JFK. Perhaps DL will operate some of the the flights from LHR currently operated by VS and vice versa, but it's neither here nor there; they will be a combined entity eventually and will essentially be the same carrier despite having separate brands and products.


User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days ago) and read 2602 times:

I understand the the benefits of a JV and as long as both airlines are in a JV they both reap the benefits of it. However a JV is not cast in cement they can end at any time. And there was a second part to the the question in my above posting which has not been answered. And that second part is;

IF Delta decides in 5 or 10 years to sell their 49% stake and END the JV with Virgin are they required to return any and all slots received during the JV back to VS or will DL get to keep any and all slots acquired from VS fi the JV ENDS?

Slots are important because they are not easy to obtain at LHR. We all are focused on the JV aspect but what happens if the JV ends think about it who get to keep the slot  


User currently offlinenycfly75 From Italy, joined Aug 2005, 766 posts, RR: 9
Reply 59, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

We should also be pointing out what a remarkable surge of flights AZ has concentrated at JFK since its "rebirth" in 2009. This summer, AZ will have 26 weekly flights from Italy to JFK with its own metal. Many days you will see 4 Alitalia planes on the ground (a record) at JFK, though probably not all at once since due to scheduling. I remember a time where AZ had 1 daily flight to Rome during the winter back int he 90s.

User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 58):
IF Delta decides in 5 or 10 years to sell their 49% stake and END the JV with Virgin are they required to return any and all slots received during the JV back to VS or will DL get to keep any and all slots acquired from VS fi the JV ENDS?

It's not clear whether VS would "give" DL any slots in a sense that they would be Delta's forever. I would think it likely that DL would have settled the question of slots in a predetermined way as part of the JV agreement with VS. Any sale of their stake in VS might include some sort of permanent slot transfer to DL at that time, but I don't think anyone is privy to that information just yet. The most likely possibility is that VS might just keep all their slots and operate all flights using the slots they own without any slot transfer taking place while DL would do the same, although the markets served may still change. In other words, VS would still operate the same number of lights but might do something like switch out their service to ORD with service to ATL while DL would just take over the flight from ORD using the slot they currently allocate to ATL.


User currently offlineNW From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 61, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 58):
IF Delta decides in 5 or 10 years to sell their 49% stake and END the JV with Virgin are they required to return any and all slots received during the JV back to VS or will DL get to keep any and all slots acquired from VS fi the JV ENDS?Slots are important because they are not easy to obtain at LHR. We all are focused on the JV aspect but what happens if the JV ends think about it who get to keep the slot

Nothing will be givin to DL or VS. Look at the NW/KL JV and now the DL/KL/AF JV with respect to LHR. KL leased slots to NW and now those slots are leased to DL and AF leases slots to DL. DL actually own very little slots and if it was not for leasing slots from KL/AF they would have very little service to LHR. KL and AF still own those slots but they are leased and used by DL. Should the JV end, KL and AF still own the LHR slots and can do what they please after the lease expires. This is all spelled out in the JV agreement between the carriers. Since the JV is in place it does not matter who operates these routes, what matters is who has the right equipment to make a profit. DL flying a 767 DTW/LHR can make more money than KL flying a 737 AMS/LHR. KL still owns the slot and it will always be KL's but they make more money leasing the route to DL for JV flying.


User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Lets check what options DELTA themselves present EWR passengers who wish to travel to FCO in late May 2013.

- dep. EWR 17:50 - arr. AMS 07:35 DL034 B763 7h 45m non-stop daily
- dep. AMS 09:40 - arr. FCO 11:55 DL1601 B737 2h 15m non-stop daily (KL codeshare)

- dep. EWR 11:45 - arr. ATL 14:00 DL401 A319 2h 15m non-stop daily
- dep. ATL 15:35 - arr. FCO 07:30 DL240 A333 9h 55m non-stop daily

Surprisingly the option via EWR-CDG-FCO is not presented.

Question is is there enough demand to warrant additional capacity EWR-FCO over the existing three DL options: AMS, CDG, ATL.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 63, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 55):
Just a slight correction. Alitalia flew to Newark before the existence of Skyteam. In those days, one would see a DC-10 in full CO-livery, half AZ/CO-livery with a decal Continental/Alitalia (with logos) and then the title "Alliance" underneath. Continental and Alitalia operated a joint-venture service between Newark-Milan & v.v. and also Newark-Rome & v.v.

I think there were dedicated gates in Terminal C - Gates 120/121 ?

I miss those days of occasionally seeing a Continental Micronesia DC-10 at Newark Airport. =]

Yes CO launched EWR-FCO in conjunction with AZ in 1992/1993 with a DC-10 that was painted one side in CO colors and another side in AZ colors. AZ then launched EWR-MXP in 1994/1995 with a 763. Also CO had another dual livery DC-10, they painted on of their DC-10s half VASP/half CO to mark their new EWR-GRU and EWR-GIG flights.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 64, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1900 times:

Quoting factsonly (Reply 62):
Surprisingly the option via EWR-CDG-FCO is not presented.

EWR-CDG on DL doesn't start until June.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 1005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1899 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 64):
EWR-CDG on DL doesn't start until June.

Haaaa.....that's why..... 

In June DELTA.com shows three options EWR-FCO, of which two are new:

- via CDG
- via AMS
- via DTW

So DL is able to move plenty of people from EWR to Rome over lots of routes.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 66, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 56):

You are correct DL could run the ORD-LHR route year around on a 767 and make a profit. Since most comments on this topic seem to be in favor of DL taking over some of VS routes which means VS would have to turn over some slots at LHR to DL, if DL then decided years down the road to sell their 49% stake in VS and end their JV so they simply turn those slots back over to VS or would DL get to keep the slots they gained in this JV?

that all depends on if Delta buys the slots or leases them for VS. It also depends on the contract for the slots.


VS won't just "give" DL slots, they will lease them or sell them. (now, they may sale/lease them for .99 cents...but they wont just give them away)



yep.
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