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Northeast Airlines Convair 880 Fleet  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 534 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

How many Convair 880s did Northeast have in their fleet.I also know they had one Convair 990 also. When NE retiered their 880 fleet did some go to TWA?

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Looks like they had 10, total.........6 were leased from General Dynamics and 4 were leased from Hughes Tool Co. The first 6 were leased from '60 - '63 and the last 4 were leased from '61 - '68. Don't know if any went to TWA.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4487 times:
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Mr. Mayor,

The initial batch of six 880s later joined the TWA fleet.
From the second batch of four ships, only N8495H (MSN 39) served with TW (albeit briefly), on a sub-lease from NE in May '67. Coincidentally, this 880 was originally intended for TWA as N829TW and served as ship # 8829 while a part of the Starstream 880 fleet.



Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlinedeltacto From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

10 Total CV-880's

http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/ne.html


User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1149 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4027 times:

I am curious as to some of the city pairs these 880 served, I presume primarily BOS and JFK to Florida?

Thanks

LGA777


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3075 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Learn something new everyday. I never knew that Northeast also flew a 990, ex-AA apparently. I confirmed that on another web site.

I thought there was only one airline that flew both the 880 and 990. There were two. Anybody know the other?

[Edited 2013-01-18 19:04:43]

User currently offlinemuzyck From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3960 times:
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Swissair flew both. Correct?

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4987 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Quoting muzyck (Reply 6):
Swissair flew both. Correct?

That is correct. Swissair flew the 880s while waiting for their 990s.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineairtechy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Excepting the Concorde, don't the 880's still hold the record for the fastest commercial jet? I was fortunate enough to fly them when they were with Delta.

Jim


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3075 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7):
Quoting muzyck (Reply 6):
Swissair flew both. Correct?

That is correct. Swissair flew the 880s while waiting for their 990s.

Oh, I thought the other answer was AS.

Where did NE's fly? I'm also assuming JFK and BOS to Florida. Is that right?


User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3922 times:
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Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5):
I thought there was only one airline that flew both the 880 and 990. There were two. Anybody know the other?

Educationally speaking...
this is turning out to be a banner day for you Mr. Boeing.

You'll want to add Alaska Airlines to the list:

"Four Jets Daily between Seattle and Anchorage!"

 

Edit...

a timely save on your part, well done!

[Edited 2013-01-18 19:52:44]


Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3075 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Quoting airtechy (Reply 8):
Excepting the Concorde, don't the 880's still hold the record for the fastest commercial jet? I was fortunate enough to fly them when they were with Delta.

Close. It was the 990 that was the fastest sub-sonic jet. The 880 was a bit faster than average also though. However, from what I understand the 990s weren't flown at their max cruise speed since it was expensive to do so.

Quoting Yukon880 (Reply 10):
Educationally speaking...
this is turning out to be a banner day for you Mr. Boeing.

You'll want to add Alaska Airlines to the list:

"Four Jets Daily between Seattle and Anchorage!"

I was thinking AS. I didn't know about Swissair having 880s. Yeah, how many daily flights from SEA-ANC? And SEA was their only lower-48 destination. I'm sure AS in LIH, PVR, SNA and FLL was pretty unthinkable back then. The thought of AS flying 707s (and having a 747 on order at one point) might be unthinkable to us now though.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4987 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
Close. It was the 990 that was the fastest sub-sonic jet. The 880 was a bit faster than average also though. However, from what I understand the 990s weren't flown at their max cruise speed since it was expensive to do so.

It is interesting to note, that to get even close to its "promised" speed, the 990 had to cruise at 21,500' ... and at that speed and altitude, the aircraft was burning more per mile (not per seat mile, but per mile) than a Boeing 707 with JT3Ds, with about 50 less passengers!

When cruised at higher altitudes, its range promises were met, but not speed promises. It was somewhat efficient (for the day) when cruising slower at higher altitudes. However, the seat mile costs were still quite a bit higher than a B707 or B720 with P&W JT3Ds.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
Close. It was the 990 that was the fastest sub-sonic jet. The 880 was a bit faster than average also though. However, from what I understand the 990s weren't flown at their max cruise speed since it was expensive to do so.

The 990 may have been faster, but it's the 880 that held the speed records......SAN-MIA on DL...3 hrs 31 minutes.....SAN-BOS on TW.....4 hrs 17 minutes to name a couple.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1062 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9):
Where did NE's fly? I'm also assuming JFK and BOS to Florida. Is that right?

They made it to Baltimore (BAL), PHL and Montreal (YUL) as well.


User currently onlinesparky35805 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3507 times:
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Alaska was the only airline to own both types.The other airlines leased aircraft.
Sparky


User currently offlinemetjetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

If I remember correctly from an article I read... The 990s never were painted in northeast colors

User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1062 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 16):
If I remember correctly from an article I read... The 990s never were painted in northeast colors

There was only one NE Convair 990, N5612, ex-American. It was painted in full Yellowbird paint.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 16):
If I remember correctly from an article I read... The 990s never were painted in northeast colors

I think you mean "The 990 never was painted..." There was only one as far as I know.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3075 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 17):
Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 16):
If I remember correctly from an article I read... The 990s never were painted in northeast colors

There was only one NE Convair 990, N5612, ex-American. It was painted in full Yellowbird paint.

Yep, it was painted in NE yellow. Scroll down towards the bottom.

http://www.planeviz.com/blog/2012-03/northeast-airlines-yellowbirds/


User currently offlinemetjetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Viscount I meant never

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6835 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
SAN-BOS on TW.....4 hrs 17 minutes

Why and when was TW (or anyone) flying an 880 SAN-BOS?


User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3301 times:
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Quoting timz (Reply 21):

Why and when was TW (or anyone) flying an 880 SAN-BOS?

This was the delivery flight of the first of the 880s leased to Northeast, handed over on 30Nov60.
Four 880s were on hand when Northeast inaugurated jet service from BOS to MIA via PHL on 15Dec60.



Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
Close. It was the 990 that was the fastest sub-sonic jet. The 880 was a bit faster than average also though. However, from what I understand the 990s weren't flown at their max cruise speed since it was expensive to do so.

Let's not forget the DC-8-43 N6904Z, later delivered to Canadian Pacific as CF-CPG. On August 21, 1961 it achieved Mach 1.012 on a test flight, diving from 52,000 feet. Supersonic speed was achieved around FL410, with a TAS of 660 mph. This a/c was also the first transport to haul a payload up to 50,000 ft.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 21):
Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
SAN-BOS on TW.....4 hrs 17 minutes

Why and when was TW (or anyone) flying an 880 SAN-BOS?

Possibly some special demonstration flight. I don't think TWA had any route authority at SAN before deregulation and I can't recall anyone else operating nonstop SAN-BOS prior to JetBlue (one daily nonstop currently)

Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
but it's the 880 that held the speed records......SAN-MIA on DL...3 hrs 31 minutes....

As a sidenote, the captain on that DL delivery flight SAN-MIA in February 1960 was killed 3 months later on May 23, 1960 in an 880 crash at ATL on a training flight that killed the 4 crew, just a week after DL became the first carrier to put the 880 into service. The 880 that crashed (N8804E) had only been delivered a little over 2 weeks earlier.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...20crash%20atlanta&pg=6419%2C889567
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19600523-0


25 mayor : However, the 880 achieved what it did in LEVEL flight, more than likely. These were time/distance records, not just to break Mach. I know the speed o
26 KC135Hydraulics : Speed of sound changes a little based on air temperature, density, etc, so the exact number isn't set in stone. Maybe in ISA conditions though?
27 Post contains links maxpower1954 : The speed of sound is for all intents and purposes a function of temperature. At sea level Mach 1.0 is 761 mph/646 knots. At FL 350 at an ISA of -56C,
28 SANFan : As already posted, yes, the recored-setting SAN-BOS trip was either a TWA delivery ferry or a demo flight (and probably didn't have much if any paylo
29 mayor : One of my biggest regrets of my time at DL was that I never made it a point to ride on an 880.
30 Post contains images zippyjet : I can vouch for the Northeast 880 at BAL now known as BWI. The year was 1962. I was five years old happy and sad at the same time. Sad because my gra
31 mayor : IIRC, DL quit 880 service in '73, probably the fuel crisis that year was a deciding factor. I imagine it was because they had enough 727-95s and -295
32 zippyjet : Thank you Mayor. I always thought the 880's had the upper hand in the range department. I associate the 880'a in the longer range family along with t
33 mayor : From what I've read, apparently the -295s were used on the long range routes that were previously flown by the 880s, but barely adequately.
34 CF-CPI : Bear in mind that NE had two distinct batches of 880s: one set from 1961-1963, which consisted of planes that went back to TWA (pre-Yellowbird), and
35 Yukon880 : Again, the record setting San Diego to Boston flight was the delivery of Northeast's (not TWA) first Convair 880. Handed over on 30Nov60, and having
36 Yukon880 : Convair published the following figures in the Certificate Limitations section of their FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual... Maximum Operating Limi
37 maxpower1954 : Yukon880 - Very good info, better than a marketing influenced guess on my part! I've always been curious about 880 technical details. I do know that i
38 mayor : I once heard a story about this. It seems that the engines (same powerplant as on the B-58) could be overspeeded and crews were admonished to not do
39 longhauler : The 880, (and 990) had two Turbo Compressors in the fuselage near the wing root area, and yes, those scoops fed the T/Cs. The T/Cs are powered by 17t
40 Post contains images maxpower1954 : Thanks longhauler - I'm ready for my 880/990 type rating oral now Do you have a FOM for the 880 or is there a website with systems info?
41 longhauler : I have an FOM for the 880, (TWA), and an "Introduction to the Convair 990A" manual (AA). The 990A manual I picked up at a flea market around here for
42 Yukon880 : Indeed Sir. The Convair FOM notes the following regarding Emergency Descent Procedures: 1. Power Levers to IDLE position. 2. Initiate moderate bank t
43 longhauler : That is interesting that the main gear could be extended without the nose gear. The only other aircraft that I knew could do this was the DC-7, (or w
44 Post contains links Viscount724 : DC-7. The main gear served as speedbrakes. Go to about 5:20 in this 3rd part of an AA promotional film covering a nonstop DC-7 flight IDL-LAX soon af
45 maxpower1954 : The Grumman Gulfstream 1 also has a main gear only speedbrake.[Edited 2013-01-20 16:18:51]
46 Yukon880 : You know, when you think about zippin' along in a pressurized aluminum tube at virtually 90% Mach, and having the ability (if need be) to throw out th
47 BoeingGuy : I think the 707 procedure was to lower the landing gear too. You can even see it in the Airport '70 movie when Captain Harris reaches up to the gear
48 PHLBOS : Years before to the 1972 merger w/DL, NE had placed an order for the L-1011. These planes were likely viewed as a more appropriate & long-term su
49 superjeff : Actually, there is an ex Swissair 880 on display at the Swiss Transport Museum in Luzern; it is fully restored (static - non flying) and worth the tr
50 mayor : There used to be a place near underground Atlanta that had as part of their display and gift shop, the cockpit of an 880......don't know if it's still
51 Dreadnought : It's a 990, not a 880.
52 Viscount724 : Due to the 990's performance problems and delays in delivery while undergoing modifications ("speed pods" and changes to engine pylons etc.), Convair
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