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NIMBYs Killed Southwest @ TTN?  
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1954 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4463 times:
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Not sure if this was ever discussed on here but an article in the Trentonian reveals that Southwest was ready to serve TTN in the past but demanded the expansion of the airport. Political pressure read NIMBYs forced Mercer county officials to decline the deal.

http://www.trentonian.com/article/20...midjersey-we-re-at-a-new-frontier-

This particular quote from the writer Jeff Edelstein tells the story
" My time here in MidJersey goes back to 1999, when I started at The Trentonian and was assigned county government as part of my job. I got to know Prunetti — then county executive — both personally and professionally. And never did I see him more exasperated than when trying to turn our airport into a hub, specifically for Southwest. That airline wanted to come here, but they wanted — needed — the airport to expand.

There was pushback. Civic groups, the county freeholders, homeowners. A lot of pushback. And the pushback resulted in numerous delays that kept the project on hold. Eventually, Southwest pulled out and set up shop in Philly, and with it, Prunetti’s dream of the airport was left on the tarmac."

[Edited 2013-01-18 01:47:00]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Quoting jerseyguy (Thread starter):
Not sure if this was ever discussed on here but an article in the Trentonian reveals that Southwest was ready to serve TTN in the past but demanded the expansion of the airport. Political pressure read NIMBYs forced Mercer county officials to decline the deal.

An organization called PLANE was well organized at the time. After hearing Stage II 732s blast off from Eastwind...perhaps they had a point.

They slowed down an environmental on terminal expansion- which was approved years later via a push from another startup that didnt fly but, interestingly, that startup eventually seeded the F9 idea that is being implemented now.

The group began to die off (literally) in the early 2000's. No oppoistion arose when the environmental was approved, no oppostion arose the startup was talking 320s/73NGs, and no opopsition arose when DL flew the RJs. And now, when the near silent Airbus' come in to the airport...there seems to be no opposition. Many of the GA jets are much louder after all.


User currently offlineNKOPS From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

Quoting jerseyguy (Thread starter):
And never did I see him more exasperated than when trying to turn our airport into a hub, specifically for Southwest

hub, huh??? NIMBY's would never allow that!!



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

TTN is perfectly situated, it's never going to be a EWR or PHL but it stands a better chance of being a true reliever airport than SWF or ISP due to it's location almost exactly mid way between New York City and Philadelphia off of 95. It's actually closer to Manhattan than SWF. Plus it has a decent local market in Princeton/Bucks County area.

I think F9 at TTN has the potential to be bigger than NK at ACY, which is impressive. They have to get some routes up to daily frequencies though. And then hopefully they could generate some other traffic:

DL RJs to DTW or ATL
US RJs to CLT
UA RJs to ORD, IAD



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1625 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4067 times:
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Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

You're missing the point and trend of airports like TTN. They have not and cannot support service to hubs. They can support service to leisure destinations like Florida, Mexico and Las Vegas. The hubs have been tried from TTN, RFD, SLE, ILG etc. it doesn't work. People prefer to fly PHL-IAH nonstop than fly TTN-ATL-IAH. It's the connections, its the low frequency, its the RJs. Free parking doesn't attract business travelers, it attracts leisure. United failed in RFD flying to DEN. That says it all given UAL probably had a large mileage plus base in RFD. Yet people preferred ORD-SEA nonstop over RFD-DEN-SEA.


User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3982 times:
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Quoting NKOPS (Reply 2):

hub, huh??? NIMBY's would never allow that!!



Mr. Edelstein does not know the definition of a true hub when he said later in the article that TTN now had a hub. I emailed him to correct him on that. TTN is a focus city for F9 or a base as VP of Strategy and Planning Daniel Shurz called it.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently onlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3388 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
I think F9 at TTN has the potential to be bigger than NK at ACY, which is impressive. They have to get some routes up to daily frequencies though. And then hopefully they could generate some other traffic:

They have a way to go for that. Sure they announced a number of cities, but the less than daily frequencies equate to only something like 2-3 flts/day on average.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3618 times:

TTN to me looks like another ILG...a smaller airport in an important city that is too close to major aiports (read EWR and PHL), to do well on its own. ILG could not sustain service despite being the only commercial airport in the state of Delaware (where many businesses are incorporated by the way), and I can't imagine that TTN would do much better.

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
TTN to me looks like another ILG...a smaller airport in an important city that is too close to major aiports (read EWR and PHL), to do well on its own. ILG could not sustain service despite being the only commercial airport in the state of Delaware (where many businesses are incorporated by the way), and I can't imagine that TTN would do much better.

ILG is very close to PHL, that is it is within 30 minutes and a not too difficult drive on I-95 for someone, without any tolls. Most of New Castle Co. is within 30-35 mins of PHL.

ILG is close to New Castle Co., Kent Co. DE and Cecil Co. MD, the latter two counties do not add much in numbers. And, most of New Castle Co. is urban or blue collar and not very upper income, and that area in NE Delaware is also not too far from BWI as well.

TTN is more attractive being central to most of NJ, and it's immediate area has upper income households. Being between PHL and EWR, it can serve as a both a PHL and EWR alternate, both which have expensive parking, delays, high fares on certain routes. It's also farther away from that low fare BWI hub than ILG is to BWI.

[Edited 2013-01-18 10:34:22]

User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3379 times:
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Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
the state of Delaware (where many businesses are incorporated by the way),

Are you aware that most businesses that incorporate in DE, have most of their facilities elsewhere? I know that the computer store that I used to work at years ago was incorporated in Delaware and we had not 1 employee who worked in that state. We only had an agent that we paid to have a presence in that state and those companies do just that and are the agents for tens of thousands of companies. If 10% of the employees of all the companies that are incorporated in DE were to actually work there, DE would have a population density worse than India. Ok, I may be exaggerating but you get the idea, there is not the vast number of workers that you imply actually working in DE.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3379 times:
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Quoting Sligo (Reply 1):
And now, when the near silent Airbus' come in to the airport...there seems to be no opposition. Many of the GA jets are much louder after all.

  

The Freeholders voted unanimously to accept the Frontier contract and everything they have said since then - since service started - has been positive.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3388 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 7):
TTN to me looks like another ILG...a smaller airport in an important city that is too close to major aiports (read EWR and PHL), to do well on its own. ILG could not sustain service despite being the only commercial airport in the state of Delaware (where many businesses are incorporated by the way), and I can't imagine that TTN would do much better.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 9):
Are you aware that most businesses that incorporate in DE, have most of their facilities elsewhere? I know that the computer store that I used to work at years ago was incorporated in Delaware and we had not 1 employee who worked in that state.

That is correct. There are a number of Banks with offices in Wilmington but many are not large facilities or skyscrapers. Also with the proximity to NYC and a lesser extent DC the Acela Express probably takes care of a good portion of the Banking traffic into Wilmington

[Edited 2013-01-18 11:41:05]

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