Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air Berlin And LH At HAM Today  
User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 5
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Security personnel are on strike at HAM today affecting all airlines. The federal police has sprung in, but only 2 out of 15 or so lanes are open, meaning 3 to 4 hours in line for security. This affected me this morning as well and I was booked on Air Berlin via DUS to LAX.

Even though it was not the fault of the airlines, I think it takes events like these to show the managerial qualities of the different airlines. The staff were fine, but they were doing what they were told by management.

In contrast, the main competition being LH, those passengers were being given train vouchers to go on their journey by rail if they wished and being rebooked on other airlines, when necessary. A train can get to DUS in about about 3 to 4 hours from HAM and there is a local station at the airport connecting to the main station in minutes. On Air Berlin, no such option was offered to anyone and rebooking was strickly only on other Air Berlin flights. For me, this means a 2 day delay, as Air Berlin doesn't fly to LAX daily. I asked for the other options, but no dice, despite what their competition was doing.

What I can not understand, was why AB sent no email, SMS or message of any kind about this issue to any HAM passengers. I was told this would have been impossible. However, If this is impossible for AB, there in is the problem, as other airlines can do that.

Who ever has been managing AB, apparently overlooked some basic stuff, such as having the capability to contact and warn passengers of delays at a minimum, and better yet, how to accomodate them in situations like this. IMHO, this speaks to the competentcy of management, IMHO.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9550 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

Alerting passengers might have been difficult as I understand that this is an unannounced walk out which started at 4 am this morning.

LH has a standing agreement with DB German Rail that their tickets are valid without any further issues on any train to FRA or MUC or had you been booked on an LH flight to the US from DUS, the ticket would be valid on the DUS trains as well.

AB might not have such a deal, a bit surprising sinc emehdorn was DB CEO before his time at AB.

Blame this stupid ver.di union whose boss is on the LH supervisorxy board and is constantly harming the airline. If he'd be on the owners side he'd be dragged to the court for that.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Yeah my dad's flight to MAN was canceled because of the strike at HAM today. It's unusual for them not to announce a strike/ walkout in a advance.


chase the sun
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1053 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
Alerting passengers might have been difficult as I understand that this is an unannounced walk out which started at 4 am this morning.
Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 2):
It's unusual for them not to announce a strike/ walkout in a advance.

That's the official version of airport management.
However, I knew since WEDNESDAY a strike was looming and since yesterday that it would definitely happen. And I do not work security.
Seems like everyone played the game of the three monkeys just so now they can place all blame on the union "they" so much despise...

Quoting tommytoyz (Thread starter):
IMHO, this speaks to the competentcy of management, IMHO.

It's not a question of competency. It is and always has been AB culture to grant only the minimum required by law to it's pax.
I don't want to add insult to injury and I am fully aware that you might have chosen AB because you are tied to OneWorld, but there was a line in a British Comedy TV show a while ago that (in a similar situation) went something like: "What do you expect? You're a cheap skit and flying a cheap crappy airline." Again, it's a TV show quote and AB is not exactly cheap, but you get my drift.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

I do not blame the workers at all. To me, it's management. Somebody decided to outsource this security function mandated by German law, to a private company. That was the 1st mistake and secondly, the HAM airport managers had no viable back up plan, knowing this could happen at any time.

In private industry workers have a right to make demands and management needs to deal with it. As an airport operator, HAM managers are responsible. Perhaps they could have had the Bundespolizei at the ready with more officers, rather than the small handful that they did have, which did nothing.

There was a reporter there that interviewed a passenger next to me, and he basically said, and I think most people felt this way...that there was no animosity against the workers. I agree with that. To me it was management that ultimately put us all in that situation. Bad decisions and poor planning.

It's like LHR management deliberately slumlording by doing without enough snow equipment to make more money for the private company running the place. I had to deal with too last time, waited days and still pulled my own bag from a mountain of other bags that the employees were trying to reroute to their proper destinations. Some people must have waited weeks.

In the USA, at first, weren't the TSA workers private and were then converted to federal employees? If that is the case, HAM shows us one good reason (and I can think of several) why, security can't be outsourced to a private company, any more than we can outsrouce to a private Police Dept. or to a private Navy.

As to AB, I suggested they accomodate the passengers in this case and send the expenses they incur to HAM management. ANd really, at the very least, Air Berlin need to get on with the program of advising their clients as soon as this started at 4am. It is a very easy software issue to push out notifications via email or sms to all HAM passengers booked that day almost instantly.


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9550 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 4):
I do not blame the workers at all. To me, it's management. Somebody decided to outsource this security function mandated by German law, to a private company. That was the 1st mistake and secondly, the HAM airport managers had no viable back up plan, knowing this could happen at any time.

Well, by German labor laws, companies are forced to outsource anything they can. Don't know about Hamburg and don't have the time to check, but many airports actually own the companies they outsource to. If the union threatens a strike, what are your options? Practicably none., The carriers cannot notify the passenmgers because oif the union says buuhh, we just wanted to scare you, your planes fly empty that day and you even have to pay compensation., In case of strike, no compensation.



Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 4):
Perhaps they could have had the Bundespolizei at the ready with more officers, rather than the small handful that they did have, which did nothing.

LOL, we are , contrary to some countries, underpoliced. The Bundespolizei does not have "officers" standing around leisurely. And even f, a private company cannot demand that they jump in.

The essence is, airport management cannot plan anything, they are at the mercy of this union.

FYI - the checkers get right now € 11,25 per hour and they want € 14,... I would refues such an increase as well.

Not sure if you are familiar with how things work here, but the company pays its share for health insurance, pension insurance, unemployment insurance which adds more than 20% to that, in addition at least 4 weeks paid vacation, sick days as many as you please if you have a cooperating doctor. Rule of thumb double the hourly or monthly income and you have the real costs. Multiply times 1,33 and you have it in US$


The job they do is not really challenging.

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 4):
n the USA, at first, weren't the TSA workers private and were then converted to federal employees? I

That wpould be an absolute no go. it would not change anything anyhow, since they would have a right to strike as well and would be even more featherbedded. Making them civil servants (Beamte) would be catastrophic. You'd be standing for hours in the queue regurlarly.

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 4):
As to AB, I suggested they accomodate the passengers in this case and send the expenses they incur to HAM management
AB is realistic, they don't have a case. LH and others tried that before with little success.


Correction regarding pay

presently € 11,80 per hour, the demand is € 14,50 p hour , that is almost 25% . Way over the top.

[Edited 2013-01-18 10:09:53]


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
presently € 11,80 per hour, the demand is € 14,50 p hour , that is almost 25% . Way over the top.

This hardly belongs to civil aviation anymore, but 11,80€ is by itself a good amount for a 9-to-5 job on any day between Monday and Friday. However, if that is the same amount for shifts, weekend- and holiday work, then I too would have a little bit of an issue with the pay.
Just imagine that, including tips, the folks working in the bars at the airport earn more.
Add to that, Hamburg is one of the most expensive cities to live in in Germany.

I don't want to defend the security personal. After all they caused a heck load of trouble to thousands of people, and a heck load of loss in money to more than just two airlines, but the fact of the matter is that this strike was perfectly legal. Instead of shaking our heads at the unions we should question the legislation they are taking advantage of.

To all passengers which are still stranded at HAM, I wish them all the patience they can find. And have some sympathy for the folks working at AB, LH, the Airport and the likes. It's not their fault, they too want to spend the evening at home. Don't make it worse for them either.


//edit
It would be nice it the Title of the thread could be changed into something more meaningful, more on the subject of the strike.

[Edited 2013-01-18 12:17:39]


// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1053 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
Well, by German labor laws, companies are forced to outsource anything they can.

Now, that's news to me.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):
However, if that is the same amount for shifts, weekend- and holiday work, then I too would have a little bit of an issue with the pay

The 14.50€ are only part of the problem. IIRC, many have limited contracts and even more get to work low hours each month so they need to add tax payers money to top it off at a level that will pay their rent.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):
Add to that, Hamburg is one of the most expensive cities to live in in Germany.

  

Again what puzzles me most is the media communication. If I did know about the strike without working security then airport management must have heard about it too, methinks.

On the issue of outsourcing airport security: I often fly through ZRH to destinations in Spain. In both countries security is done by official police personnel who often appear more competent and confident in their job and even provide better service atmosphere. But well, I am veering off topic.

Strike may be repeated on Monday according to local media.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2698 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
As to AB, I suggested they accomodate the passengers in this case and send the expenses they incur to HAM management
AB is realistic, they don't have a case. LH and others tried that before with little success.

There is something wrong in the current model IMO. The airlines are footing the bill for rebookings, but if anything it is the airport who should be held responsible.


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9550 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

I've looked a bit deeper into the matter. Security is indeed the responsibility of the state who has allowed and delegated it to "privately" run firms. I hate the word "private" in this connection as many times these are subsidiaries of airport companies that may even be in state ownership, wholly or partially. but anyway. The state has made it mandatory by law that apssengers are screened before they board an aircraft, hence, the state must make sure that this screening does take place within reasonable time.

If there is another strike coming up next week, the state must better send the recruits from any police academy in northern Germany and whatever else is available. No excuse.

One cannot blame the airlines, they are in a stupid situation. Sending full aircrafts towards HAM and almost empty ones back due to the strike and shortcomings by the state,They have to inform their pax, alright. But, if they inform and no strikes takes place they have empty planes as well.

At least the carriers do not have to pay compensation. Alternative travel, OK, meal and drink vouchers, OK, bit that's it.

This compensation for cancellations and delays is another item which should be discussed since the rules are unfair. A strike is an "unforeseen" matter. Same as weather. The carriers do not have to compensate. But, a technical delay is unforeseen as well when the aircraft is otherwise properly maintained. No mechanic clears a faultyaircraft

An aircraft despatched from the gate is ship shape, a fault can happen during taxi and is therefore unforeseen. However carriers have to compensate in this case.

Someone should educate lawmakers and judges.


Still, the airlines are not in negotiation with the unions, the security screening service providors are. However, the bulk of the damage is footed by the carriers, which is unfair and IMHO illegal, simply for the fact that the carriers cannot avoid that damage as they are not involved in the negotiations...

LH, AB and others are taking several unions to court over this already and they will likely take this up to the European High Court.

.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delays And Cancellations At LHR Today - Why? posted Sun Nov 20 2011 06:35:29 by EGSUcrew
Air Berlin Forced Landing At Palma posted Sat May 29 2010 15:23:27 by flywrite
Air Berlin And Tuifly Intend Partnership posted Wed Mar 18 2009 03:24:26 by Tobias2702
S7,Air Berlin And Niki Sign Codeshare Agreement posted Thu Oct 16 2008 03:34:46 by Beaucaire
Oman Air Lounge And Service At LGW Tomorrow.. posted Fri Mar 14 2008 12:13:00 by B742
New Colors For Air Berlin And Tuifly posted Mon Jan 7 2008 03:37:52 by Toolman
New Livery For Air Berlin And Partners posted Thu Jan 3 2008 05:36:53 by Whisperjet
Air Canada 767-200 At SJC Today - What Happened? posted Thu May 3 2007 05:10:22 by AAL151Heavy
Air Berlin Have A Hub At NUE? posted Wed Nov 9 2005 22:45:51 by Gkirk
Why No Synergies Between Air Berlin And Air Madrid posted Tue Oct 4 2005 20:51:21 by Beaucaire