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SFO Aviation Thread Part 2  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4435 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9368 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As the previous thread was quite lengthy please continue the discussion here.

Previous thread:
SFO Aviation Thread Part 1 (by DolphinAir747 Dec 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2013-01-19 08:52:31]

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9138 times:

With the development of the 787 and coming A350, what affect will this aircraft have on the Bay Area airports with regards to airlines adding International flights at OAK/SJC instead of the traditional SFO?

The 787, in particular, has been developed for long thin routes. ANA has a 2 class cabin with 158 seats flying their SJC route. This is less than some carriers 738/9 flying domestic flights.

SFO is constrained but appears to be growing and will surpass 42 million paxs this year. They are adding 2 new International carriers, MU & SK, so far this year. Why does SFO have 16+ daily flights to New york but SJC has only one?

These are all questions and hopefully will be answered this year.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9106 times:

I've always been puzzled by the lack of UA EWR-SJC. UA does fly EWR-SNA in addition to EWR-LAX, after all.

Does NH have a spare 763 or 77W to send to SJC?


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9102 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 2):
Does NH have a spare 763 or 77W to send to SJC?

I read in another forum the probable reason for NH not to send a replacement aircraft to SJC is the close proximity to SFO with their own flight. Furthermore, they have a JV with UA and can accommodate the SJC passengers during this slow season.



John@SFO
User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9083 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 3):

I noticed today that there were two ANA 77Ws in SFO today, the usual flight at G, and a second at A. I'm curious to know if this is ANA's response to passenger backlog from SJC.



Stairway to Seven
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9057 times:

Quoting N782NC (Reply 4):

Unfortunately, I am out f the Country now but that is interesting. If there was a NH cancelation yesterday into SFO, maybe an extra rotation. I just checked the NH site and there was a medical diversion yesterday. The regular NH flight arrived about 5 pm and due to gate availability, used the A Gates for arrival.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 2):

With the Bay Area leaning more toward the *A, I often wonder why UA does not at least fly to all their hubs from SJC. There must be more to it that we are not seeing.

[Edited 2013-01-19 21:13:29]


John@SFO
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting N782NC (Reply 4):

I noticed today that there were two ANA 77Ws in SFO today, the usual flight at G, and a second at A. I'm curious to know if this is ANA's response to passenger backlog from SJC.

The second one that arrived at A-side is parked out at Plot-41 near Super Bay. That was NRT-SEA that could not get in due to SEA WX which was in the crapper this morning.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20130119/1800Z/KSEA/KSFO

[Edited 2013-01-19 21:21:30]


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9014 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 6):

Thanks for the info. Interesting how SFO was chosen but I guess since they have staff there, it makes sense.



John@SFO
User currently offlinevtdl From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8992 times:

Not sure if this was discussed before. What do you guys think had they relocated SJC to Moffett Field location? Beside the politic and complaint from Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Sarataga residences, I thought Moffett is a better location and has more room to grow. What you do think?

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8975 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 5):
With the Bay Area leaning more toward the *A, I often wonder why UA does not at least fly to all their hubs from SJC. There must be more to it that we are not seeing.

Back in the day, you could get from SJC to Chicago and Dulles all day long - I used to prefer to fly Dulles to SJC back in the airstairs days before the rental car center During the height of the .coms, they were packed.

Before the merger, they had axed it ALL.

NS


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8895 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):

It is amazing how times have changed. I believe during the early 1990s, AA did not even have flights between SFO and MIA.



John@SFO
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8827 times:

Quoting vtdl (Reply 8):

Not sure if this was discussed before. What do you guys think had they relocated SJC to Moffett Field location? Beside the politic and complaint from Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Sarataga residences, I thought Moffett is a better location and has more room to grow. What you do think?

Why? SJC is an under utilized facility as it is with a new state of the art terminal. It has parallel runways that have both been extended in the last 10 years. And limited curfew and noise restrictions, much more lenient then Moffet would have. Remember the approach to Moffet from the SW is some of the wealthiest communities in the entire country. Let now forget the fact it's government owned to top it all off.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8693 times:

Just wondering, when did UA cut SFO-MIA? Why are they flying SFO-FLL rather than SFO-MIA?

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8668 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 12):

MIA was closed in the early 2000's when UA closed the S. American hub at MIA. The reason behind FLL over MIA I'd imagine is a combination of cost, not going against AA and FLL being a growing destination for UA. It's also just another market they overlap with VX, which will continue to lower yeild in those markets.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8539 times:

How big of a freighter market did TWA have out of SFO and what was their routings?







View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George W. Hamlin




John@SFO
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8475 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 1):
Why does SFO have 16+ daily flights to New york but SJC has only one?
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 2):
I've always been puzzled by the lack of UA EWR-SJC. UA does fly EWR-SNA in addition to EWR-LAX, after all.

CO did fly SJC-EWR up until a few years ago. UA discontinued SJC-IAD and SJC-ORD at about the same time (and AA is down to 1/daily SJC-ORD).

AA once had 3 daily SJC-JFK flights, including sometimes a 762. At one time AA also had 4/daily SJC-BOS flights (!!!!).

I never get why SJC can't support more flights also. It seems like the cachement area is just as populated as SFO and it's a great airport.

Quoting as739x (Reply 6):
The second one that arrived at A-side is parked out at Plot-41 near Super Bay. That was NRT-SEA that could not get in due to SEA WX which was in the crapper this morning.

It's been really foggy all over the SEA region all weekend. But yeah, I'm surprised the ANA flight didn't divert to YVR, PDX or GEG which are much closer than going down to SFO.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 3):
I read in another forum the probable reason for NH not to send a replacement aircraft to SJC is the close proximity to SFO with their own flight. Furthermore, they have a JV with UA and can accommodate the SJC passengers during this slow season.

I hope the 787 problems don't sabotage the success of the NRT-SJC flight. What did it operate for like 3 days until the grounding?


User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8404 times:

Any update on the possible El Torrito meet up?

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8383 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 16):
Any update on the possible El Torrito meet up?

I'll be in SJC from 2/1 - 2/4 so I'm up for it. What is the best time of day to go, in terms of best action on the 28s?

If that doesn't work, I'll also be in SJC in late March and late April. I'd like to join you guys if my personal SJC travel plans fit into everyone else's schedule.

Hopefully the NH flight to SJC will be operating again by then. Of course that will be good in many more ways that one......


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8369 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
It's been really foggy all over the SEA region all weekend. But yeah, I'm surprised the ANA flight didn't divert to YVR, PDX or GEG which are much closer than going down to SFO.

There could be a lot of reasons for that. SFO already had a NH flight on the ground, so the staffing was in place for the arrival and to help with passenger accommodations. YVR is an international destination and you may have passengers unable to enter Canada. GEG was probably full of other diverts and PDX the same. Just throwing some ideas out there.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
I'll be in SJC from 2/1 - 2/4 so I'm up for it. What is the best time of day to go, in terms of best action on the 28s?

Morning: The Asia arrivals start rolling in around 830a-then departing 1130a-100p. As the Asia flights depart the Euro's start arriving, unfortunately no LH A380 at 12:20p, 747 currently.

I'll be sitting on the beach in the South Pacific that week, so get some good pics.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8320 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
What is the best time of day to go, in terms of best action on the 28s?

I would say the best time would be around 11:00 to 11:30. That's about an hour before the early wave of flights from the EU are scheduled to arrive (KL 605 {MD-11}, AF 84, LH 454, and a bit later, BA 285 and VS 19), so if any of them end up being early, you'll still catch them. If you're still around near the 16:00 to 17:00 hours, you'll see BA 287 and LX 38, along with at least one BR flight from TPE.

Of course, that's just the international heavies I can think of off the top of my head...

Also, just a thought...given all of the discussion about SJC in general and the NH 787 service in particular, maybe this thread should be renamed "SF Bay Area Aviation Thread" so it's "officially" more all-inclusive? Just a thought  



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8185 times:

First it was VX and now UA. UNITED from 01APR13 is cancelling San Francisco – Toronto service, where it currently operates 6 weekly flights. Last departure from Toronto is 01APR13. Looking at their schedule, it was timed for their Asian flights.

After April 1st, AC will have the route to themselves but UA will probably codeshare on the route. Maybe we can see AC upgauge to a 767 during the summer months on at least one of their flights.



John@SFO
User currently offlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7952 times:

Anybody know start date and frequency of SAS SFO to CPH service. The more I look at pics the more I want to go back to the Faroe Islands

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7931 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 21):

Anybody know start date and frequency of SAS SFO to CPH service. The more I look at pics the more I want to go back to the Faroe Islands


Monday, April 8th. Flight will be 6x per week.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...ervice-add-late-newark-cph-flight/



John@SFO
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

Does anyone know when UA Will deploy their newly configured 757 PS flights between SFO and JFK? Last I heard, it was to be rolled out last October but nothing since.


John@SFO
User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7486 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 20):
First it was VX and now UA. UNITED from 01APR13 is cancelling San Francisco – Toronto service, where it currently operates 6 weekly flights. Last departure from Toronto is 01APR13. Looking at their schedule, it was timed for their Asian flights.

How large is the O&D market?


25 Post contains images point2point : I do believe that the number for O&D is 775 daily pax. On that note, isn't there an agreement between UA/AC that make this a metal neutral route?
26 legacyins : AC-UA and have a JV. Does not matter who runs the route.
27 point2point : So following an ideal, this is where the alliances can benefit each other. With a good sized amount of traffic between the San Francisco and Toronto
28 Post contains links OH-LGA : Except that SFO-YYZ is a carveout under the JV, so joint pricing and revenue sharing are not possible. (Source: http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/ei
29 DolphinAir747 : Would SFO-CTU be a good UA route, maybe thrice weekly 772 or 788? Western China is booming%u2014just look at all the new service from Europe and the M
30 timz : When?
31 BoeingGuy : Around 2000-2001. I still have some old paper timetables from that time. AA had four SJC-AUS flights at the peak; and three SJC-JFK including a 762.
32 DolphinAir747 : Does anyone think this could work?
33 legacyins : Hard to say. Look at UA and the SFO-CAN route. They were granted authority many years ago and were given extensions a couple of times. IMO, China is
34 Post contains links legacyins : SFO had its best year yet with over 44 million paxs in 2012. No surprise, UA is the dominate carrier with almost 50% and followed by a distant second
35 DolphinAir747 : The two are not fully comparable. First of all, CTU serves a very different area of China from the rest, whereas CAN is far too close to HKG—just l
36 legacyins : Yes, China is still growing but it is still a developing Country and had no where to go but up. I have my own opinion about China as I just returned
37 DolphinAir747 : Yes, there is lots of price-sensitivity, though if UA flies profitably to larger yet far more competitive markets like PEK, PVG, and HKG, couldn't th
38 legacyins : I agree with you about Apple and others but something tells me NH got to them and is pushing them on their flight ( when it starts up again ) from SJ
39 legacyins : I was at SFO today and saw Delta 208 arrive from NRT. After about an hour, a tug pulled the aircraft over to the domestic Delta gates and another tug
40 LAXintl : The first aircraft is already modified. United has already stopped selling F class on the p.s. routes effective June 6th. No. Daily demand is barely
41 as739x : Yes
42 DolphinAir747 : Could NH fly a 737 on NRT-CTU?
43 as739x : Easily. It's only 1850nm vs say BOS-SFO 2350nm It wasn't really the issue of O/D traffic for Virgin. It was the loyalty of the Toronto and AC passeng
44 LAXintl : ANA already serves CTU with a 737 that connects from US services. NH947 NRT-CTU 1715-2300 NH948 CTU-NRT 0930-1520 Also for Star, Asiana has a daily A3
45 Post contains images legacyins : I was taking a walk around the Domestic Terminal today and took a couple of shots of how Pier E is coming along.
46 as739x : And it can't open fast enough. We need those gates desperately.
47 KDCA : Will all T1 operations end for UA once pier E reopens? How many gates are planned for it? Will there be a United Club?
48 as739x : Not from what I am hearing. The gates at this time are planned as expansion and it's 10 gates last I heard. T-1 Ops will continue. I don't have acces
49 KDCA : That is really interesting to hear. When AA was using Pier E, they had it configured for nine gates. It looks like at least four of those were WB cap
50 psa1011 : So will US move ops to T2? I'm not sure how many flights they have to CLT/PHL/PHX.
51 LAXintl : Regarding the club, all I have seen are plans to remodel and further build out the current domestic lounge. US is rather small at SFO these days. Sch
52 psa1011 : Was pier E ever accessible from F, behind security?
53 flyua : Yes, Pier E is accessible from Pier F, post-security. From what I understand, Gate 68 will be closed once Pier E is open, and a new, tenth gate on Pie
54 as739x : Yes, current operations are at just under 250 daily flight. More to come. Actually if you look at the current schedule there has been a large reducti
55 KDCA : I assume you are referring to the primary United Club in the domestic gate area. While it is pretty nice by the national standard for those clubs, it
56 as739x : AC will not be moving into the renovated E concourse (last I heard) and US will not moving into T-3. T-2 -merger or stay in T-1 -no merger. Remember t
57 psa1011 : It's amazing how much money AA spent on their lounge in T-2, knowing they wouldn't be there for more than a few years.
58 legacyins : I believe the airport subsidized AA move over to T2, not sure as to what extent. One would assume VX, if their still around, would take over the loun
59 OH-LGA : I hope AC isn't going to be doomed long-term to the split International A/G pier operation they're having to do now. Unpleasant for originating pax wh
60 KDCA : While the O/D is certainly strong to SFO and the Bay Area, by what metric is SFO the strongest of the UA hubs? UA has a larger market share at IAH, E
61 Post contains links AADC10 : UA handed SJC and OAK to UAX. SNA is slot restricted so most flights there are still mainline and I believe CO operated the route before the merger.
62 LAXintl : The direction the Clubs are going (remember they are their own revenue/cost centers) is to build ever large consolidated clubs. It makes more financi
63 KDCA : That was what I understood, but it sounds like UA has changed their mind: Thanks for the floor plan in the PDF. Still find it surprising they wouldn'
64 Post contains links legacyins : So, how willl the AA/US merger affect SFO? Not much, as they both have small operations at SFO. What is kind of interesting is the quote from an SFO o
65 warden145 : Given how small US's SFO ops are, I'm not surprised in the slightest. That's really a shame...granted I'm looking at it from the perspective of someo
66 as739x : It's unfortunate, but that is the only solution as the terminals just don't have the capacity for the UA growth. The E renovation will bring on more
67 flyua : Regarding the United Club situation in SFO, I'm now hearing there might be a new club added to the Pier E design. United's real estate plans for exist
68 KDCA : Comparison of UA's SFO hub spring 2000 vs. spring 2013 - apologies for any errors: Destination '00 '13 Equip '00 Equip '13 ABQ : 0x : 2x : CR2 ASE : 0
69 legacyins : In April, UA will be starting SFO- TPE / CDG.
70 legacyins : 28L is closed today and possibly tomorrow for runway work. Landings are happening on 1L/R and departures on 10L. It was reported to expect 45 minute s
71 legacyins : Anyone know why HA 17 from LAS diverted to SFO today? It was parked over near the A-Pier and then towed to the gate for departure.
72 sfo212 : Apparently it had a cracked windshield that needed replacement. Also, there was an Aeromexico 777 that made a stopover in the middle of the night enro
73 legacyins : Thanks for the info. Yes, the AM flight came in around 1:15AM and departed just before 3AM. Kind of odd it was short on fuel but looking at flight tr
74 sfo212 : Apparently it had a cracked windshield that needed replacement. Also, there was an Aeromexico 777 that made a stopover in the middle of the night enro
75 warden145 : Thank you guys...I was wondering why there was an HA bird sitting at SFO in the middle of the afternoon. I didn't get a close look at it, so I couldn
76 legacyins : HA 17 was a 763 with winglets. On a side note, there is a Qatar Airbii 340 parked over at the super Bay at this time. Royals in town?[Edited 2013-02-1
77 warden145 : That would be my guess. Not the first time they've been here, that's for certain...
78 flySFO : I flew into SFO Friday night right before midnight and saw a United Charter 747 with an all black-tail parked at gate 84. Does anyone know what this w
79 LAXintl : Military charter run. Headed out to Colorado Springs and Germany at 145am. And yes on 747 using those gates. Back during the days of the 747 classics
80 as739x : Gates 82.84.86 can all accommodate 747's. Gate 80 is no longer used however for 747's due to the close proximity to a/c at gate 79.
81 legacyins : Is UA running any 747 domestic flights from SFO these days?
82 as739x : I haven't scene us operate a 747 domestically in a while, then again I have not been watching that closely. The above mentioned military charters hav
83 legacyins : As was pointed out in another thread, Due to the 787 grounding, they are delaying their start of the SFO- CDG/TPE flights. CDG is now showing a start
84 Post contains images legacyins : Did SQ 1 go tech last night. It overnighted and was pulled to the Gate at about 3 pm for departure to HKG.
85 warden145 : Interesting, and I think that this marks the first time SQ's A380 has seen daylight at SFO, since this time of year, the flight always lands after da
86 Post contains links legacyins : Saw this on YouTube. AA 738 in new colors arriving into SFO. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uuZ8ObmlGGA
87 legacyins : It's too bad SQ could not wait another two hours, then there would have been 2 SQ A380s on the ground at the same time.
88 Post contains images legacyins : A little foggy at SFO this morning. There is an Airport and UA 777 out there somewhere.. It is suppose to burn off by early afternoon. A few delays up
89 Post contains images legacyins : In just over a month, SK will start service into SFO. There have been a few false starts over the past few years but it looks like SFO will have anoth
90 LAXintl : Nice, but the jury is still very much out as to the future of SK. Only in November they announced 6,000 layoff's and last month there was a suggestion
91 legacyins : True, but you can almost say that about many Euopen carriers, AZ, KL/AF, IB, TP. All are having financial difficulties. With regards to SK, I could s
92 Post contains images legacyins : It is the second time in three weeks that SQ 2 was delayed and made a rare daylight appearance into SFO. It arrived at 10:30 this morning as SQ 2D fro
93 Post contains links legacyins : For those of you interested, the SFO Airliner show is this weekend t he Grosvenor Hotel. http://www.sfoairlineshow.com/
94 warden145 : Thanks! By some miracle I have Saturday off...may have to go check it out!
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