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PAL:More Destinations......  
User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10842 times:

Hello All just would like to bring in the news re Philippine Airlines finally making a come back into the main stream by opening its destinations and slowly resuming a more expensive network hopefully to surpass its golden years way back when.....

PAL will be commencing 3x a week to ISTANBUL on Aug 5 then come September 4x a week to MOSCOW. On a more imminent movement, on March will be flights to Phnom Penh, Darwin, Brisbane then April its daily flight to KUWAIT.

If all comes to play with its CAT 2 lifting we would definitely see CHICAGO, NEW YORK right away followed by LONDON, PARIS, FRANKFURT and ROME.

Congratulations to PAL, hope we get to hear soon what aircrafts are joining the fleet. They till have 35 more to order.

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10829 times:

Hm? The flights to IST, MOW (SVO or DME), DRW, PNH, KWI, etc. are all still on the drawing board. Sure, PR will start them, but they don't have the permission to do so yet from the CAB.

I actually wonder though if MOW will get off the ground: the Philippines has been targeting Russian tourists quite aggressively. Hopefully this means a partnership with Aeroflot.

[Edited 2013-01-19 17:55:06]

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10761 times:

Quoting airlinebuilder (Thread starter):
If all comes to play with its CAT 2 lifting we would definitely see CHICAGO, NEW YORK right away followed by LONDON, PARIS, FRANKFURT and ROME.

I'm curious about the Cat 2 filing against PAL....what were the conditions to get it lifted? I am not too familiar to why it got filed in the first place.

Also could PAL feasibly do NYC with their fleet? Didn't think they had the legs for that...



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10728 times:

Hello Akiestar, the MOSCOW is DME. The approval by CAB is just formalities, it is basically approved already. There are a whole lot of flight allocations to the Philippines and v.v. just shelved since there were no capabilities then and the airlines marketing directions then were different as well.

I have insiders at CAB and basically approval is based on the capability and logisitics wise of the carrier to mount flights and technically sustain it that is why as early as now Philippine Airlines was able to let it out in the press already.

They will be utilizing the A330 High Gross Variant. Transero flies to CEBU on charter flights. The Philippines has raised its visibility as a tourist destination and Russia for one has made Cebu in particular a wedding and honeymoon package from their end.


User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10687 times:

The basis for the CAT 2 was during the integration of the ATO (Air Transportation Office) to the CAAP (Civil Avialtion Authority of the Philippines) supposedly the personnel from the former will be placed on the organizational table of the new CAAP unfortunately the implementations were meddled with a whole lot of politics thus resulting to the new CAAP with positions not filled but in theory all the technical people are present sans the title required which led to the conclusion that safety is compromised due to lack of people as per CAAP table or organization to the letter. (where in fact, there are, all just a matter of filling up the titles) there is your walk through on what went wrong.

Ergo technically the Philippines is qualified to be CAT 1 even way back previous audits.

The T7 were basically intended for the expansions the likes of Chicago and New York and while new planes were joining the fleet the current fleet will sustain the present network, what am saying here is yes they are capable to serve their projected expansion as we speak.


User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10597 times:

Quoting airlinebuilder (Thread starter):
If all comes to play with its CAT 2 lifting we would definitely see CHICAGO, NEW YORK right away followed by LONDON, PARIS, FRANKFURT and ROME.

Is there any market for the European routes or are they just for vanity?

I mean even Qantas is leaving Europe (other than the massive London-XXX-Australia) because of the Middle Eastern carriers... and connections from Europe to Philippines through DXB/DOH/AUH are basically endless and convenient. Flying to IST is a great way to have access to TK's huge network in Europe. Why would they need anything else?


User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 466 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10559 times:

airlinebuilder Hi,

IS BNE still 2 a week via DRW ???? which was mooted previously as being Tuesday and Saturdays? with A320.



tourismman
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10527 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
Flying to IST is a great way to have access to TK's huge network in Europe. Why would they need anything else?

Filipinos (at least the ones in Europe) will pay for the convenience of flying non-stop to MNL rather than stop once or twice somewhere in the world. This is why Europe-based Filipinos apparently didn't take stopping in TPE very well: when I flew back from WAW, a lot were even surprised that AMS-MNL became AMS-TPE-MNL.

Unlike Filipinos based in the Middle East, Filipinos in Europe are more affluent and can afford flying on more expensive routings if its more convenient. Of course, still within reason.

Don't forget too that PR is targeting areas where there are lots of Filipinos. There are close to 500,000 Filipinos in the UK, and close to 400,000 in Italy, for example. They'll make for strong O-D markets, although granted the traffic PR's chasing (VFR, balikbayan, etc.) is low-yield.

(On TK: I know word's going around that they'll codeshare on MNL-IST, but whether this is indicative of a bigger partnership, I can't say.)

[Edited 2013-01-19 19:10:56]

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

I've seen AKL mentioned via an Australian port aswell a while back. Any news on this?

I'll believe it when I actually see it though.


User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

Hello Eaglefarm4. Yes the Darwin Brisbane will be utilizing the A320 and be keeping the previously announced scheme that was supposed to have started last December 2012. It will be the "bus stop" scheme I assume.

I agree with you Akiestar, but while awaiting the special arrangment with the EU, the direct flights will eventually be started the PAL the soonest possible opportunity, IST is a warm up so to speak, a peek or a fourth of a foot in?  


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10407 times:

Quoting airlinebuilder (Reply 4):
The T7 were basically intended for the expansions the likes of Chicago and New York and while new planes were joining the fleet the current fleet will sustain the present network, what am saying here is yes they are capable to serve their projected expansion as we speak.

I understand what you're saying but the LAS route is served via Vancouver....can the 77W have the range for non stop to NYC or ORD?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10306 times:

Quoting PHX787 I understand what you're saying but the LAS route is served via Vancouver....can the 77W have the range for non stop to NYC or ORD?

Taking into consideration PAL operates transpacific, most likely the ORD/NYC will be via YYZ or LAX


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7752 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10273 times:

Quoting airlinebuilder (Reply 11):
Taking into consideration PAL operates transpacific, most likely the ORD/NYC will be via YYZ or LAX

That's what concerns me, how profitable will this be?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10248 times:

Based from their performance then when they were serving ORD/EWR, they were doing fairly well. In fact Delta is basically booked on their Manila Narita onwards to Chicago and New York

User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10073 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
can the 77W have the range for non stop to NYC or ORD?

Eastbound, yes.

Westbound, they will need to stop somewhere. If I'm not mistaken, this will likely be YVR or HNL.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4799 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10016 times:

PAL is digging its own grave by venturing into places such as Moscow and Istanbul when it should be aggressively targeting the Middle East which has higher yields and S/F year round to/from Manila versus Europe.

Relaunching Kuwait is a brilliant move but it needs to also operate:

4 weekly Muscat A333
Daily Dubai B777
Daily Dammam B777
Daily Riyadh B777
Daily Doha B777

And also for the Middle East, it must reconfigure few of its B773ERs into a more higher density layout i.e. 18J / 420Y to achieve better financial performance.

If its an A333IGW in the future planned for the Middle East then it should be configured as 18J / 304Y.


User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days ago) and read 9924 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 15):
PAL is digging its own grave by venturing into places such as Moscow and Istanbul when it should be aggressively targeting the Middle East which has higher yields and S/F year round to/from Manila versus Europe.

Relaunching Kuwait is a brilliant move but it needs to also operate:

4 weekly Muscat A333
Daily Dubai B777
Daily Dammam B777
Daily Riyadh B777
Daily Doha B777

And also for the Middle East, it must reconfigure few of its B773ERs into a more higher density layout i.e. 18J / 420Y to achieve better financial performance.

If its an A333IGW in the future planned for the Middle East then it should be configured as 18J / 304Y.

Uh, PR is planning all of those. They're planning a big return to the Middle East, starting service to, based on what I've heard, DXB (to the point that they opposed EK adding its third DXB-MNL frequency, a complaint that they since dropped), RUH, DOH and KWI, all of which will be served with the new A330-300 HGW.

The 77Ws are designed for Europe and North America, and it will stay that way. No reconfiguration is planned for the fleet, as they will be one of the replacements for the 744s when they exit the fleet in 2017.

Honestly, I don't see why people think PR's digging its own grave when it tries to do something different. In my A.net stalking days, I can recall people saying that "Oh, PR won't make LAS work" or "Oh, PR won't make the 77W work". Well, aside from LAS (which PR said was doing poorly, but we don't know how), it seems that the airline's doing something right. For Europe, it needs to get its foot in the door before the Middle East airlines beat it to the punch, and with Filipinos becoming more affluent, I hope they'll do well on these routes.


User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9748 times:

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 16):
Honestly, I don't see why people think PR's digging its own grave when it tries to do something different. In my A.net stalking days, I can recall people saying that "Oh, PR won't make LAS work" or "Oh, PR won't make the 77W work". Well, aside from LAS (which PR said was doing poorly, but we don't know how), it seems that the airline's doing something right. For Europe, it needs to get its foot in the door before the Middle East airlines beat it to the punch, and with Filipinos becoming more affluent, I hope they'll do well on these routes.

I second that !
As much as it seems that PR will be flying to "second best" destinations (IST/DME) just they seem to think out of the box to get things going.
They´re certainly working hard to get the EU ban lifted and if those routes to IST and DME do work PR won´t trade them in for EU-destinations after the ban is lifted eventually.

For me it seems PR is deliberately forced to think out of the box which in the end might even do them a favor ...

Serving destinations like LON/FRA/FCO/ARN with B777 is viable IMHO. They just need to configure their aircraft Y-heavy. And they might be able to fill a few C-seats.
There are not only business travellers flying in "C/J" but also tourists willing to fork out some extra €€€ for more comfort.
Also, PAL might be able to get some connex traffic between Europe and Australia (if transferring at MNL becomes "more comfortable" eventually ...)



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 1410 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9231 times:

Don't forget AirPhil Express is getting A330s. Dammam has been mooted as top of their list for MiddleEast ops. I think AirPhil Exp could also better fit the likes of Doha and Muscat.

Kind regards

Mike


User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 912 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8915 times:

Personally, I think PR will have a tough time anywhere now in Europe since the big 3 in the Middle East are so established in MNL with great connections thru their hubs. Though I'd love to see them make a good go of London.
I wonder if PR might make TG an offer for their A345's to do the ULR runs to NYC & ORD.


User currently offlineflyhigh@tom From United Arab Emirates, joined Sep 2001, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8800 times:

Quoting airlinebuilder (Reply 4):
The basis for the CAT 2 was during the integration of the ATO (Air Transportation Office) to the CAAP (Civil Avialtion Authority of the Philippines) supposedly the personnel from the former will be placed on the organizational table of the new CAAP unfortunately the implementations were meddled with a whole lot of politics thus resulting to the new CAAP with positions not filled but in theory all the technical people are present sans the title required which led to the conclusion that safety is compromised due to lack of people as per CAAP table or organization to the letter. (where in fact, there are, all just a matter of filling up the titles) there is your walk through on what went wrong.

Ergo technically the Philippines is qualified to be CAT 1 even way back previous audits.

Seriously....you think technically Philippines is qualified to be CAT 1?????? Have you ever tried to get any work done in the CAAP ?....something like as simple as renewing your license? No wonder CAAP failed its last audit as well. Well if the management at CAAP has the same view as yours then CAT 2 will never be lifted. just a matter of filling up titles you say eh?    I see the same faces in the organization be it ATO or CAAP and the same crap that you have to get thru to get any work done. Political interference still seems unavoidable unfortunately. How many DGs have changed in the past 4 years?

Coming back to the topic...its good to know PAL is finally expanding their wings despite the CAAP mess. hopefully the new stakeholders can revive its glory days.

However they better not be late in their party to the Middle east. Cebu Pacific has announced Oct as their launch of DXB service in a    configured 330. AM pretty sure PAL or air phil express can give better value for money flts.


User currently offlineairlinebuilder From Philippines, joined Nov 2012, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8549 times:

with all these on the table for PAL, really cant wait as to what the remaining 35 orders for the airline will be not to forget Boeing messing up bigtime and their B748i which PAL was eyeing then is not living up to its brochure specs.... i guess an all sweep by airbus will be a no brainer once again......just a segway topic but significant though

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5833 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7706 times:



Quoting Akiestar (Reply 16):
RUH, DOH and KWI, all of which will be served with the new A330-300 HGW.

So PR will be the first east Asian airline to serve Qatar.

[Edited 2013-01-20 07:39:47]

User currently offlinetheobcman From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6554 times:

Who is flying between MNL-KWI ? Workers ?

User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 19):
Personally, I think PR will have a tough time anywhere now in Europe since the big 3 in the Middle East are so established in MNL with great connections thru their hubs.

I agree... Filipinos are not that numerous in Europe (at least porcentually) and they are much more widespread all over the place (if you compare it to the Gulf, Singapore or HKG where they are basically in "city-states" that have already direct flights). I mean, what is the advantage of a flight from FCO for a Filipino living in the Milan area? Filipinos in the Emirates just hop to AUH or DXB and that's all... in Northern Italy or Manchester you just take that Emirates or Qatar and connect in the Middle East.

Quoting theobcman (Reply 23):

Absolutely... there are millions of Filipinos working in the Gulf nations. Also any contract in the Gulf (as menial as the job might be) would have an annual return flight to the point of origin of the worker including in the contract... so that generates an amazing amount of low-yielding traffic from the Gulf to the Philippines.


25 ordjoe : Did they ever serve ord. Anway i see this as a big loss if they do more US non stop. This is not the times when ULH is very economically viable, let
26 Post contains links jcwr56 : Yes, they served ORD starting in 1985 Here's an old Tribune link... http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...84_1_sri-lanka-hyatt-hotels-manila
27 awthompson : Here are the approx numbers of Filipino workers in middle eastern countries: Saudi Arabia 1,159,000 UAE 609,700 Qatar 263,980 Kuwait 155,740 Bahrain
28 Post contains links and images Devilfish : They had done it before...(except IST and DME maybe)..... http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mnl-ord...r&PM=b%3Adisc7%2B%25U&MS=wls&DU=nm .....
29 Akiestar : I thought the new HGW A330s will go to PR, while the existing fleet of PR A330s will go to 2P?
30 Post contains images Devilfish : You're forgetting the 10 additional HGWs they ordered. They may let go of the old A330s after all is said and done. Airbus probably offered them a go
31 BestWestern : Since KL dropped the non-stop there is probably viable room for a lower cost operation.
32 Post contains links Akiestar : This apparently just came out on ABS-CBNnews.com. Seems that PR is bent on starting Brazil, as well as MXP (instead of FCO), CDG, CPT, JNB, TLV and, i
33 behramjee : In 2012, the passenger flown market size between Manila and Europe/Middle East was as follows: DXB 584,503 RUH 303,351 DMM 247,221 LHR 233,528 JED 148
34 airlinebuilder : Chief Pilot of Airphilexpress leaves for Tolouse to inspect the new A330 and A321 for soon to be PALEXPRESS, anyone who has got an access at Tolouse t
35 Post contains images Devilfish : This passage from your linked report could put a damper on PR's ambitions..... Quote: "Then there is the matter of the so-called onerous royalty requ
36 burnsie28 : NRT-JFK is also one of the lowest yielding routes too.
37 PHX787 : The only reason why that flight is operated by a 744 is because that plane usually goes on to TLV. That flight is much better served by a 772ER
38 SCQ83 : Filipinos in Europe are less numerous and are way more widespread (certainly there are not +2 million Filipinos in Europe like in ME, otherwise just
39 behramjee : yes that could be the reason I think you need to understand why EK and EY are successful in MNL and why "surprisingly" neither one of them have ever
40 Post contains images CityAirline : Are these numbers one way? And are they O/D? So for example in Dubai, people flying MNL-DXB and MNL-XXX-DXB are both included in the figure, while th
41 behramjee : these numbers are round trip and yes include all airlines offering nonstop and one stop service
42 Akiestar : You may think differently, but to me this sounds slightly patronizing. I know why EK and EY send 77Ws here, to the extent that MNL is being eyed as o
43 boun : What kind of aircraft will they be using to IST and DME? 330s or 77Ws?
44 Akiestar : They're going to use the new A330s coming online this year.
45 airlinebuilder : Yes Akiestar, at the CAB application for IST they applied the T7 and the A330, as for the Moscow flights, they registered all PAL widebody from B744,
46 FreshSide3 : Greece has about 75,000 Filipinos, mostly in and around Athens. The absence of both Thai and Singapore, which had good connections, has made it more
47 wedgetail737 : The last time this subject matter was discussed, PAL also expressed interest in serving both SAN and SEA with 77W equipment.
48 jpen4314 : Hi everyone, This is my inaugural post here on the forum! Such is the depth of my interest in PAL's growth that I was driven to finally take up membe
49 Ben175 : Apparently PAL executives have been in PER with flights via DRW on the cards as soon as late February.
50 airlinebuilder : interestingly very in-depth jpen4314.................given your insight on the demographic of what will significantly contribute to PAL's expansion, m
51 Post contains images Akiestar : Some are saying it's PER, while others are saying its BNE. I'm actually not sure who to believe right now.
52 b737100 : [quote=PHX787,reply=10]I understand what you're saying but the LAS route is served via Vancouver....can the 77W have the range for non stop to NYC or
53 airlinebuilder : I agree, PAL will certainly fly back to LAS VEGAS in no time once the CAT 1 is granted and the new WB aircrafts to join the fleet then we will see gra
54 prflyer : Starting April 1, 2013, the seasonal PR112/113, utilizing the A343, will be a daytime flight. Schedule will be: Sun/Mon/Wed/Fri PR113 LAX-MNL 1100-190
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