BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14410 posts, RR: 26 Reply 1, posted (5 months 5 hours ago) and read 16287 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Thread starter): Are there any 787 dreamliners as private jets on order now or in the near future, considering the 767 has a few, and its of a similar size?
Yep. I think it's six for BBJ/VIP customers plus another two for PrivatAir.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14410 posts, RR: 26 Reply 3, posted (5 months 5 hours ago) and read 16240 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 2): Do you know when they are likely to be delivered,
Not sure, but there was speculation that some of the early airframes that have been cut open and improved more than Joan Rivers might end up as private jets, but I'm not sure if that's going anywhere or not. I'm pretty sure a couple VIPs ordered -9s, so those won't be delivered for a while yet.
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 2): if the privatair 787's will be based in GVA or elsewhere?
I would assume so.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26949 posts, RR: 83 Reply 4, posted (5 months 5 hours ago) and read 16180 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Thread starter): Are there any 787 dreamliners as private jets on order now or in the near future...
There are currently six 787 VIP airframes on order. At one time the total was at least 16, however once the Global Financial Crisis hit, a number of them were subsequently cancelled.
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 2): Do you know when they are likely to be delivered...
I don't believe their delivery dates have ever been made public.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3): Not sure, but there was speculation that some of the early airframes that have been cut open and improved more than Joan Rivers might end up as private jets, but I'm not sure if that's going anywhere or not.
Last I heard, Boeing still intends to deliver ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 as 787 VIP airframes once their use as test frames is done.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 2367 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (5 months 5 hours ago) and read 15957 times:
You mean this slide:
Quote: Last I heard, Boeing still intends to deliver ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 as 787 VIP airframes once their use as test frames is done.
That's what I heard too. ZA006 is undergoing change incorporation for a while now, it might be delivered this year (without the interior). ZA005 is still fly testing for Boeing so delivery won't happen until 2014 at least I guess.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 9, posted (5 months 3 hours ago) and read 15554 times:
BBJ C is basically a 737-700C.
It can be quick changed from pax to cargo service in about 8 hours, for carrying anything the discerning customer might need - racehorses, fine cars, Egyptian artifacts, you name it.
BBJ C is a variant of the BBJ featuring the "quick change" capabilities of the 737-700C. This allows the aircraft to be used for executive duty during one flight, and to be quickly reconfigured for cargo duty for the next flight.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 12, posted (5 months 2 hours ago) and read 15298 times:
Its about the same yes.... the prices are fairly guarded and there are sooooo many options that its difficult to really pinpoint. But the range seems approximately right with the range for the same planes.
4tet From Spain, joined Sep 2007, 111 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 months ago) and read 13010 times:
I understand that with the 'List price' comes EVERYTHING needed for the aircraft to fly (airframe, engines, apu, cockpit, electronics, etc...) except the interior.
If so, 80M - 150M for the interior completion, it's so exaggerated! I understand that if you want everything with gold and diamonds can be much more, but for a regular completion with materials like leather and wood, I found it simply unacceptable!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, RR: 23 Reply 15, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12463 times:
Quoting akelley728 (Reply 10): Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
What aircraft is a BBJ C?
BBJ C is a variant of the BBJ featuring the "quick change" capabilities of the 737-700C. This allows the aircraft to be used for executive duty during one flight, and to be quickly reconfigured for cargo duty for the next flight.
Comparable to the C-40A Clipper for the U.S. Navy, to replace their DC-9-30-based C-9Bs. They recently ordered 2 more.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3161 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12360 times:
Quoting 4tet (Reply 13): If so, 80M - 150M for the interior completion, it's so exaggerated!
Keep a few things in mind:
a) Every interior is pretty much unique. No one buys a VIP aircraft to have it looking like a carbon copy of their neighbor's. Someone has to design that interior from scratch.
b) Aircraft have unique shapes and requirements. Most of what goes in is custom-made, you can't go to Ikea to buy a sofa and fit it inside your plane.
c) Pretty much everything used for the interior has to be certified to higher standards than what you find in your house, from the electrical cables to prevent a spark inside the cabinet housing the tv to the carpet on the floor far more resistant to fire than a standard carpet. Try using non-certified material and your insurance carrier will terminate coverage.
Well, it was confirmed on the first week of November. I was staying at the NH Hotel in MEX when I saw this article on the news paper. Seems it was a good deal made by Boeing to the Mexican Government after AMX made their order for the 787...
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 19255 posts, RR: 63 Reply 22, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8695 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 21): I see, so upsizing then, also what will replace Air Force one when that retires?
I don't see why they would go from a 757-based jet to one the size of the 77L. There are also 6 C-32s, 4 in the executive configuration, so there isn't just one which is flown as Air Force Two for the Vice-President.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1868 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8158 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 4): Last I heard, Boeing still intends to deliver ZA004, ZA005 and ZA006 as 787 VIP airframes once their use as test frames is done.
I wouldn't even want those if Boeing offered to sell one to me for $30M.
skywaymanaz From United States of America, joined May 2012, 166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8053 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 21): what will replace Air Force one when that retires?
A version of the 777 and 787 have been mentioned but I expect it will be a few 747-8's. The amount of press that accompanies the President and flies with him on Air Force One justifies this. When they flew the 707 variant the travel office at the White House had to charter another aircraft on most Presidential events to carry the press. They'd film Air Force One takeoff then scramble on to the press plane to race ahead and then film Air Force One land. It was kind of silly and today you usually only see this happen for a big prestige international trip as the number of reporters increases beyond what the 747 can carry. I expect something to be announced on this after the next Presidential election.
Antoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 4 Reply 25, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8221 times:
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23): I wouldn't even want those if Boeing offered to sell one to me for $30M.
If you've got the $30m... give it to me, I'll put it to good use. :P
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
LH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 281 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8106 times:
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5): I found the 748 availability very interesting though for someone who needs a BBJ quick because it'll be available in 9 months.
This would also mean that if LH, CA or KE wanted theirs earlier, that should be possible.
Pellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1868 posts, RR: 8 Reply 29, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8068 times:
Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 25): If you've got the $30m... give it to me, I'll put it to good use. :P
If I get a WB PJ I'll interview you for a job as a "ground services manager" i.e. no loading, but supervising. You'd fly with me, and my company pays way above average. How about that?
Antoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 4 Reply 30, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7594 times:
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 29): If I get a WB PJ I'll interview you for a job as a "ground services manager" i.e. no loading, but supervising. You'd fly with me, and my company pays way above average. How about that?
Works for me.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
It was rumored that a 77L BBJ could be the solution...
Seems to me that a 767-200LR would be a better solution. Slightly bigger upgrade. Definitely would have the long legs. Would have worldwide support with commonality to the new tanker fleet. Yet not a huge platform.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 33, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5706 times:
Quoting 4tet (Reply 13): If so, 80M - 150M for the interior completion, it's so exaggerated! I understand that if you want everything with gold and diamonds can be much more, but for a regular completion with materials like leather and wood, I found it simply unacceptable!
I agree. Even including top of the range fire retardant materials and high spec electricals, how on earth can a few sofas, beds, chairs and bathrooms come anywhere near that amount of money?
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 34, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5714 times:
Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 24):
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 21):
what will replace Air Force one when that retires?
A version of the 777 and 787 have been mentioned but I expect it will be a few 747-8's.
Not to mention I am sure the POTUS transfer requirements are better served by 4 engines vs 2.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 35, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4735 times:
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 33): how on earth can a few sofas, beds, chairs and bathrooms come anywhere near that amount of money?
Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, RR: 23 Reply 36, posted (4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4557 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22): There are also 6 C-32s, 4 in the executive configuration, so there isn't just one which is flown as Air Force Two for the Vice-President.
Aren't there now 5 in VIP configuration, including this one (90016) acquired from AA a few years ago (originally TWA)? The window configuration looks similar to the 4 original VIP C-32As.
KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 2367 posts, RR: 6 Reply 38, posted (4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4264 times:
Quoting LH422 (Reply 27): This would also mean that if LH, CA or KE wanted theirs earlier, that should be possible.
It could but it's not gonna happen. Boeing will introduce an updated 747-8i in 2014, it's smarter to wait for it. The first Air China line number (1499) has already been allocated and it should start final assembly in the beginning of 2014.
777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3055 posts, RR: 3 Reply 40, posted (4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3923 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35): Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.
Not to mention that aircraft quality furnishings are not surprisingly, designed specifically for aircraft, which means they're overengineered and built out of higher quality materials that their regular counterparts. It's not as if they go down to the local furniture store to outfit an aircraft.
7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 580 posts, RR: 3 Reply 41, posted (4 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3911 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35): Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.
Tom.
And the dance floor with the mirrored ball has to have railings to hang on to so that in case of turbulence you don't go flying--I'm sure the owner took them out as soon as he got it home.
skywaymanaz From United States of America, joined May 2012, 166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 44, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3457 times:
I strongly question whether The Queen's Flight needs this but perhaps if it was shared with the Prime Minister. The once speculated Blair Force One. Then again I'm not a Briton so not sure how this is viewed across the pond by HM Taxpayers.
Pygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 932 posts, RR: 38 Reply 46, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3170 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35): Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 33):
how on earth can a few sofas, beds, chairs and bathrooms come anywhere near that amount of money?
Certification. An enourmous amount of testing and engineering is required to demonstrate that the fittings comply with the regulations. For example, not many run of the mill couches will stay attached to the floor at 16g.
Tom.
that and the flammability requirement that everything in the cabin must be proven not to sustain a fire... that burlwood commode cant be flammable.. so they are typically a very thin veneer of wood over a composite substrate... not cheap.
bikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1628 posts, RR: 4 Reply 47, posted (4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3134 times:
Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 46):
that and the flammability requirement that everything in the cabin must be proven not to sustain a fire
Not only flammability but also, in the cabin, smoke toxicity. Not may substances meet both requirements.
Funny thing though, wool and leather meet these requirements very well.
2008matt From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted (4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2415 times:
What are the list prices on a 787 and a 767, as I guess the more economic 787 isn't such an issue for a private user who isn't flying almost 24/7 like commercial jets?
2008matt From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
So with the list price of the 767 about 40 million below the 787 it is probably more likely that a private jet customer would buy a 767 as it is unlikely the savings from the 787 will not equate to that difference?
sweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 54, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2040 times:
If I had a boat load of cash I would rather have a VIP 787 than a 767, the 787 allows for a more comfortable cabin environment, less noise, higher humidity and cabin pressure.
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 392 posts, RR: 0 Reply 56, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 55):
Yes that's true but 40 million is a large difference
The figure by itself, yes.
But relatively, the '67 is only twenty percent cheaper (788 vs 762) than the Dreamliner.
So much superior metal...err, plastic...for a little more moolah.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 57, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1941 times:
Quoting 2008matt (Reply 18): Could the US government buy one to replace Air Force two, as that must be getting old now?
The two very low cycle 747's currently used will remain for years to come, of course these are most likely the most well maintained and scrutinized aircraft in the world.
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 20): It was rumored that a 77L BBJ could be the solution
Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 24): A version of the 777 and 787 have been mentioned but I expect it will be a few 747-8's
I can not find it readily, but there was a thread on this exact subject, and IIRC, the 748i was the hands down winner, not only for the passenger capabilities, but also the extra two engines that help give just an added level of security and no ETOPS.
Absolutely beautiful, I feel the leader of the free world should have an aircraft that is impressive, and the certainly the best that the USA has to offer.
Next Flights: AS PDX-SAN-LIH on 739/738 in F, HA LIH-HNL-KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 430 posts, RR: 1 Reply 58, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
In the DELL 787 thread, a press release said from Boeing their was 12 787 BBJ's on order.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 57): I can not find it readily, but there was a thread on this exact subject, and IIRC, the 748i was the hands down winner, not only for the passenger capabilities, but also the extra two engines that help give just an added level of security and no ETOPS.
actually, the 747-8i does have ETOPS. It was the first four engine aircraft to receive it since the modification of what ETOPS was. However, I would assume that doesn't matter for the military.
Quoting PenPusher (Reply 59): ETOPS is only needed for twin engined aircraft, the 747 can go anywhere it wants.
Since 2007, the FAA defines as "ExTended OPerationS" and for diversions greater than 180 minutes, they do apply to aircraft with three and four engines after 2015. I do not know all of the details, but cargo fire suppression capabilities are part of the regulations.
(Airbus suggested the term LROPS (Long Range OPerationS) for three and four-engine planes.)
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 61, posted (4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1625 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 60): Since 2007, the FAA defines as "ExTended OPerationS" and for diversions greater than 180 minutes, they do apply to aircraft with three and four engines after 2015.
But, regardless of number of engines, ETOPS only applies to Part 121 carriers. Private operators can do whatever they want.
flightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 430 posts, RR: 1 Reply 62, posted (4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1498 times:
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