n797mx From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 100 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 24339 times:
UA 737-924/ER, tail number N34460, hit a fuel truck this morning after being blown by a strong gust. Nose cone appears heavily damaged. Wind gusts were 35-45kts at the time.
panam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2603 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 23686 times:
I'm surprised to see a 739 being used to BUF. At least it's 'just' the nose cone and the aircraft didn't contact the terminal building or something like that. As an aside, I love how UA can operate mainline to BUF/ROC/ALB, but still only manage CR7s to SYR. Kind of a bummer.
cle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 23351 times:
The tow bar should have been hooked up to the push tractor and the aircraft should have been triple chocked..this is what we do in CLE when high winds happen.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16935 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 23059 times:
Quoting cle757 (Reply 6):
The tow bar should have been hooked up to the push tractor and the aircraft should have been triple chocked..this is what we do in CLE when high winds happen.
I was wondering about what the safety situation is in such conditions. Could you elaborate? 40kt winds are strong, but not extreme. I wonder if this was a freak gust or if they just got casual about procedure.
flight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3295 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22831 times:
Quoting panam330 (Reply 3): I'm surprised to see a 739 being used to BUF.
platinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 20881 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5): What about the 6 chocks......and parking brake set.
From the picture doesn't seem that the chocks helped. On UA's 737-7,8,and 9 it is Standard Operating Procedure to release brakes after the aircraft is choked on arrival. Towbar and pushback tractor would have helped.
IBOAviator From Canada, joined Sep 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 20304 times:
Quoting n797mx (Thread starter): UA 737-924/ER, tail number N34460, hit a fuel truck this morning after being blown by a strong gust. Nose cone appears heavily damaged. Wind gusts were 35-45kts at the time.
Quoting platinumfoota (Reply 11): On UA's 737-7,8,and 9 it is Standard Operating Procedure to release brakes after the aircraft is choked on arrival.
The aircraft was chocked and the parking break was engaged, I'm assuming. Would a 40kt wind actually have the force to move an aircraft of that size around like that? Since no towbar was used, it is safe to assume the parking brake was set. Seems to me that a wind would have to be significantly greater than 40kts to move an aircraft of that size around on the ramp?!
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 1): I love that they didn't have any stairs around so they just put the belt loaded up to L1!
:D haha, I can see them having some fun with that.. The belt loader was probably the most accessible piece of equipment avail at the time to get crew into the airplane fast.
Quoting cle757 (Reply 6): the aircraft should have been triple chocked..
At my local facility, it is company policy to triple chock all aircraft when the wind exceeds 25kts. Now, those are largely in part business jets weighing a fraction of that of a B739 but still, aircraft being triple chocked in those conditions seems like a no brainer... common sense and in aviation, common sense is something that is surprisingly not universally shared.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): I was wondering about what the safety situation is in such conditions. Could you elaborate? 40kt winds are strong, but not extreme. I wonder if this was a freak gust or if they just got casual about procedure.
When we get a B737 on our ramp and in those kinds of winds, triple chocking the aircraft is a must and with the parking brake on, that is all that is required. No infractions to date. I am thinking maybe a freak gust... My thoughts
cle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 20247 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7): I was wondering about what the safety situation is in such conditions. Could you elaborate? 40kt winds are strong, but not extreme. I wonder if this was a freak gust or if they just got casual about procedure.
We go into a program called SWAP (Severe Weather Action Program) aircraft are triple chocked (all wheels) and the tow bar and push back tractor are hooked up.
IBOAviator From Canada, joined Sep 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 20040 times:
Quoting cle757 (Reply 13): We go into a program called SWAP (Severe Weather Action Program) aircraft are triple chocked (all wheels) and the tow bar and push back tractor are hooked up.
Interesting. We only require a tow bar and tug to be hooked up to the aircraft if it's available. Granted, that's the procedures of my local Avitat. Are SWAP programs common to all airports? What constitutes "extreme weather?" Does BUF have a SWAP?
yeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 531 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 19468 times:
If the winds were actually gusting to 35kts-45kts, Boeing recommends that all main and nose gear tires be chocked and the parking brake set. To prevent the aircraft from pitching, set the horz. stab. to zero units, fuel the plane, extend the speedbrakes and ballast the plane to the forward C.G. limit.
platinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 543 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 18983 times:
Quoting IBOAviator (Reply 14): Are SWAP programs common to all airports?
KC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18482 times:
Quoting yeelep (Reply 15): If the winds were actually gusting to 35kts-45kts, Boeing recommends that all main and nose gear tires be chocked and the parking brake set. To prevent the aircraft from pitching, set the horz. stab. to zero units, fuel the plane, extend the speedbrakes and ballast the plane to the forward C.G. limit.
Definitely a lot of CYA by Boeing. I seriously doubt any operator would go to that extreme.
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18226 times:
It would have been hilarious to see passengers (had there been any on board) deplaning via a beltloader. That said, I'm glad no one was hurt in the incident.
KingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1587 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 18116 times:
Two sets of chocks are common in the RJ world, of course, but are there non-RJ airlines that don't triple chock their airplanes as a norm?
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 423 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 17508 times:
It is normal procedure to triple chock any mainline aircraft. Especially on a RON. We usually don't triple chock RJ's, but on wind and adverse weather, all M/L gets triple chocked. No ballast or other special procedures are done, except moving he warning comes (which they will be blown away).
The wind can be a nightmare during ops. Try hooking up air during a windy turn. Not a easy task.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
Antoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16028 times:
Quoting jporterfi (Reply 18): It would have been hilarious to see passengers (had there been any on board) deplaning via a beltloader.
You will never see that. Safety concerns.
Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 20): Two sets of chocks are common in the RJ world, of course, but are there non-RJ airlines that don't triple chock their airplanes as a norm?
I believe in normal wind conditions, most airlines only require two sets of chocks... but in most cases three is S.O.P. anyway.
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 21): It is normal procedure to triple chock any mainline aircraft. Especially on a RON. We usually don't triple chock RJ's, but on wind and adverse weather, all M/L gets triple chocked.
We chock all gears on RJs...
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
31 KBUF: It WAS sitting at a gate when the incident occurred, though.
32 Yakflyer: I don't know what your definition of heavily damaged means, but I don't think this measures up to that description for me. The only thing damaged was
33 cotparampguy: Tail 0460, that plane can't be that old right? Nice way to baptize the poor girl!
34 HAWK21M: How much distance did the Aircraft swing/move......approx.Any diagram.....[Edited 2013-01-21 02:31:42]
35 Antoniemey: Looks like it turned about 45 degrees from the parking line, so, about 50 feet, give or take?
36 Darksnowynight: Sure. I use those a lot to board AC that are out by Remote, or when stairs are not available. It's pretty common for MX on the 80s. Now that's awesom
37 STT757: January in Buffalo and there's no snow on the ground, what's going on?
39 United_fan: According to the Star Alliance timetable,we're supposed to start getting UA 737's in ROC from ORD starting in March or April. Also,BUF has,in the pas
40 CALPSAFltSkeds: The aircraft is sked to ferry back to EWR today. Obviously with a new radome - question is if radar is damaged. Expect it back in service soon. It cou
41 tommy767: UA 737s to BUF is new. By March it seems ROC gets 737s in addition to BUF.
42 jayunited: United has been flying a 737 on the ORD-BUF route for some time now and although it is SOP to chock the mains and the nose gear on all aircraft the tr
43 yeelep: None that I know of. The furthest I've gone is everything but fully fueling and ballasting to fwd C.G. That would be up to the airline, if they chose
44 tb727: Yeah on the 737 it probably won't help much. We try and put at least 30k on the 727 and triple chalk it, if we are there watching it, we leave the pa
45 khpn: at least it wasnt like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHhZwvdRR5c a side not on SWAP, its also used in ATC as severe weather avoidance program..
46 cornutt: Oh yeah, it was a bit like being in a '60s-era spacecraft before you entered the cabin. It actually surprised me the first time I did it, since up un
47 mayor: In SLC, before we merged with WA, on the overnight 727s, instead of fueling the a/c, we would drop the rear airstairs, lock the inside access door an
48 AirframeAS: We do the exact same thing in DEN, regardless of weather. It's a safety thing. Fir rampers: To prevent tail tipping on the 738's and 739's, we unload
49 HAWK21M: With 6 chocks on the wheels.....still it moved 45 deg........
50 Darksnowynight: Are there 737 operators that don't do that???
51 mayor: Back in the mid 80s, at SLC, DL had just moved operations from C concourse to D and we were going to start doing our own pushbacks, instead of Wester
52 tb727: Heck yeah, nowadays when it breaks your heart sinks a little because 727 towbars aren't exactly popular on airports anymore! Guess they weren't close
53 mayor: Well, DL did modify the towbard heads systemwide in the 80s so that they would work on both 757s and 727s.
54 ordramper98: Delivery date was Nov 5, 2012, not March.
55 AirframeAS: I don't know, but one interesting thing is that you don't have to load it that way on a 736 nor a 73G or any A320 family aircraft. I have never seen
56 mayor: Back during the DL/WA merger I was working weight & balance in ops and really wasn't familiar with the former Western a/c. DL's computerized weig
57 HAWK21M: If true...with high winds prevailing.....sounds unprofessional.
58 Darksnowynight: Never even seen a 736 during gate ops, so I won't comment on that. They may not have to on the G model, but they did it that way anyway at UA's sCO D
59 T5towbar: 739's have the tail tip warning. So we do reverse loading. The CLP will let us know what to put on in the front bin(s). Plus our 900's are Telair equi
60 Antoniemey: Lazy rampers is a possibility... I see it often enough. It could also be that the gust was strong enough that the chocks couldn't hold the plane. A c
61 71Zulu: Ah, the backwards date on rzjets got me. Was it really the 5th? RZ says the 3rd.
62 T5towbar: That's the purpose of the shearing pin. All towbars have them and the towbar is designed to break if you redline the nosegear. Or steer too hard. I'v
63 mayor: Alot less expensive to replace a towbar or the head of it than to fix a busted nosegear.
64 cotparampguy: We had a shear pin break yesterday while pushing out an E-190. The turn was very shallow and there was little stress on the bar, it just broke leavin
65 ordramper98: I used Planespotters.net, pretty sure they are correct.
66 135mech: From our KC-135's with the Hydraulic brakes, you can't leave them set for extended periods of time (i.e. overnight etc) because they can blow the sea
67 mayor: We used to make it a point that if one shear pin broke, we would replace the remaining one, also, because of possible strain put on it once the other
68 Antoniemey: In the case of this lawsuit, it was with an RJ... no bypass pin. Of course, the lawsuit also alleges that the head of the towbar "rolled under" the n
69 flydeltajets: United policy is to chock all wheels on arrival and to remove chocks just before departure. A 739 has the ramp footprint slightly smaller than a 757.
70 yeelep: That brings up an interesting point. My airline requires a logbook entry and Maintenance conditional inspection of the nose gear for any shear pin br
71 T5towbar: I've seen that happen where an RJ (145) rolled up a towbar and got stuck between the nosegear. The person who disconnected the towbar didn't reattach
72 HAWK21M: Also depends on the cause of the pin shearing.....cause a new one could shear if subjected to excess loads too.Then scheduled replacement would not h
73 mayor: Well, isn't that what it's designed to do?
74 TS-IOR: What about the fuel truck ? Was it parked as procedures require ?
75 tb727: Yes, if you look at the picture it is parked about as perfectly as you can park inside it's little square painted on the ramp.
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