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N12142 Off Runway At EWR  
User currently offlinekjfk527 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 30 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 18252 times:
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N12124 untied express inbound from ROC swerved off the runway at EWR this evening. Apparently tired blew out upon landing. No injuries reported.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQ From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 17878 times:

There is no such a number of N12124 according planespotters.net I see N12142.

Q

Sorry: I saw your topic is correct. LOL!

[Edited 2013-01-20 21:02:48]

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 17706 times:
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Hmm, not a banner day for UA! Thankfully nobey was injured and hopefully the aircraft didn't sustain too much damage.


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 17679 times:

No Injuries, heres the info,

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...n=news/local/new_jersey&id=8961425

WABC Eyewitness News was the only station with a reporter on the ground for the 11p.m. news.... I guess thats why they are New York's #1 news...



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2448 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17283 times:

5 crew members on an ERJ?

Seems a bit much  



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16875 times:

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 4):

5 crew members on an ERJ?

Seems a bit much

ERJ flights on CO/UA have always had lots of dead-headers, in my experience.
I've seen four pilots on one flight... NOT counting the guys up front!


User currently offlinevarigb707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16803 times:

Four tires blow as commuter jet lands in Newark
A commuter jet veered off a taxiway after it blew four tires while landing at Newark airport Sunday night.
ExpressJet Flight 4480 -- which was carrying 13 people including crew -- touched down at 8:24 p.m.
More news from NBCNewYork.com
No injuries were reported aboard the Embraer aircraft, which was traveling from Rochester, New York, to Newark.
According to the firm's website, "ExpressJet is the world’s largest regional airline ... ExpressJet operates as Delta Connection and United Express to serve more than 188 airports in the U.S., Bahamas, Canada and Mexico."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...ds-in-newark?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=5


User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6173 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11054 times:

Quoting varigb707 (Reply 6):
ExpressJet Flight 4480 -- which was carrying 13 people including crew

Sounds like a non-revers dream.....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9642 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10060 times:

To me it sounds like the antiskid system failed. That could have caused the brakes to lock and could have blown out all the tires. I don't know of any other reason that would result in all the tires going flat and potential loss of control. Any other thoughts?


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9671 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):

To me it sounds like the antiskid system failed. That could have caused the brakes to lock and could have blown out all the tires. I don't know of any other reason that would result in all the tires going flat and potential loss of control. Any other thoughts?

Seems likely it was anti-skid. I suppose they could have had the parking brake set too, though unlikely it has happened before.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineAerowrench From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 9):
Seems likely it was anti-skid. I suppose they could have had the parking brake set too, though unlikely it has happened before.

That is what I would guess. Its less likely to lose both channels of anti-skid than it is for a bored pilot to set the brake in flight and forget.


User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8341 times:

Definitely possible it was the brake. There's a procedure on the -145 to transfer hydraulic fluid between systems using the parking brake if one side gets low. If you do it in flight and get busy, the brake can easily be left on and voilà.

User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8183 times:

Flap 25 please
Huh
Flap 25
What
Just pull the lever with the Giant "P" as in Philap  

Ok, humor off.

Sounds like at this point with no other information it could be multiple tires on one gear possibly being a braking issue,
multiple tires meaning both MLG then a parking brake issue.

I could not see from the linked news cast what the condition of the tires on the MLG.


Okie


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7205 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 9):
I suppose they could have had the parking brake set too, though unlikely it has happened before.

If this turns out to be the case, it would be very easy to prevent. Simply create an interlock that prevents the parking brake from being applied unless the squat switches are made.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3397 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6936 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
it would be very easy to prevent. Simply create an interlock that prevents the parking brake from being applied unless the squat switches are made.

Are you kidding? An easy fix is re engineering the parking brake?

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 11):
There's a procedure on the -145 to transfer hydraulic fluid between systems using the parking brake if one side gets low.

This is generally not something done in flight.

Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 10):
Its less likely to lose both channels of anti-skid than it is for a bored pilot to set the brake in flight and forget.

How about we wait for something official before blaming the pilots?


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9642 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 day ago) and read 6214 times:

Quoting flight152 (Reply 14):
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
it would be very easy to prevent. Simply create an interlock that prevents the parking brake from being applied unless the squat switches are made.

Are you kidding? An easy fix is re engineering the parking brake?

The parking brake uses the same brakes that normal brake operations use. The manufacturer is not inclined to put any logic in the brake system that inhibits the brake system based on air ground logic. Currently there is nothing in the brake system that stops the brakes from functioning in any way while in the air. This is intentionally done so that if the airplane gets stuck in air mode (the squat switches break or the logic controller breaks), nothing will inhibit any part of the brake system from working. It may be simple to add control logic to inhibit the parking brake valve in the air, but when you have cascaded failures, you have to be careful not to introduce an unintended failure cause.

Quoting flight152 (Reply 14):
Quoting Aerowrench (Reply 10):
Its less likely to lose both channels of anti-skid than it is for a bored pilot to set the brake in flight and forget.

How about we wait for something official before blaming the pilots?

I agree on not immediately blaming the pilots. It could have been pilot error, but it does not require a dual channel anti-skid failure force full brake pressure on the brakes. A single channel failure can do that because the other anti-skid controller can’t stop it. Also a simple check valve failure or line obstruction downstream of the brakes in the return system can cause the brakes to be stuck at full pressure.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

Quoting flight152 (Reply 14):
This is generally not something done in flight.

True, and I don't advocate it by any means but I've seen it done. In fact my airline forbids pilots from doing it at all anymore but a select few will still do it.


User currently offlineIBOAviator From Canada, joined Sep 2010, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Quoting kjfk527 (Thread starter):
N12124 untied express inbound from ROC swerved off the runway at EWR this evening. Apparently tired blew out upon landing. No injuries reported.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3):
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...n=news/local/new_jersey&id=8961425

"he [the pilot] had to get onto a taxiway" ...from News source above.

I realize news sources in aviation are usually inaccurate but does this above quote have any validity? If so, this raises my eyebrows. Would the pilot be instructed off the taxiway in this scenario? Seems unlikely because if he did notify the tower of the blown tires either to make sure the tower sent other approaching planes around or to just ensure the tower was aware, it seems unlikely the tower would instruct him off the runway. My question: did he swerve off the runway as a result of the tires blowing or did he swerve off the runway as a result of trying to exit the runway?

If he went off the runway as a result of attempting to taxi off the runway with all tires blown, then I don't think that was the best call the pilot could have made. In this type of situation, the pilot should have remained on the runway whilst maintaining direction control.. if he swerves off the runway while trying to stay straight, then that's out of his hands and not his fault. Attempting to taxi with all 4 tires blown is not a good idea.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7):
Quoting varigb707 (Reply 6):
ExpressJet Flight 4480 -- which was carrying 13 people including crew

Sounds like a non-revers dream.....

       "All standby's have been cleared" was probably announced before the pre-boarding announcements haha

Regards,
IBO



Keep Calm and Go Around!
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4469 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
Hmm, not a banner day for UA!

Well... not really UA.  


User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 2599 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 15):


The parking brake uses the same brakes that normal brake operations use. The manufacturer is not inclined to put any logic in the brake system that inhibits the brake system based on air ground logic. Currently there is nothing in the brake system that stops the brakes from functioning in any way while in the air. This is intentionally done so that if the airplane gets stuck in air mode (the squat switches break or the logic controller breaks), nothing will inhibit any part of the brake system from working. It may be simple to add control logic to inhibit the parking brake valve in the air, but when you have cascaded failures, you have to be careful not to introduce an unintended failure cause.

Not entirely correct. I realize this is a E145, however on the Dash 8, the anti-skid system inhibits main brake function when the weight off wheels signal and the gear up and locked signal is received.

Main wheel brakes are available again when weight on wheels is received, along with wheel speed being greater than 35 kts or 2.5s has elapsed.

I imagine their systems might be similar.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
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