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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 7  
User currently offlineLuxair747SP From Germany, joined May 2010, 504 posts, RR: 17
Posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 76807 times:

As the old threat was getting too long, please continue discussing here.


Part No. 6 of the thread can be found here:
A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 6 (by ManuCH Nov 8 2012 in Civil Aviation)

266 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 76754 times:

Ok
So where will the A350 RAT will be

http://ieee.rackoneup.net/rrvs/06/Emergency%20RATs%20Presentation.pdf

A330 like ? ou A300 like

If it's like the aeroweb picture it' new to the A350, and rather far behind the ventral gondola

http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/actualites...t-de-la350-sur-son-a340-300-dessai


User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 76667 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 1):
So where will the A350 RAT will be

In the aft portion of the WTB fairing, it appears from the test arrangement. This is similar to Boeing widebody twins (not sure about Airbus Twins)

The red test rig looks like a setup to provide pressure data for the rat propeller in this location. Is this Airbus' first time putting a RAT aft of the maximum cross sectional area (Sears-Haack body)?


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3736 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 76595 times:

Quoting CM (Reply 2):
(not sure about Airbus Twins)

The A300/310 have their RATs in the wing to body joint area as well, between the right MLG and the belly.

The A330/340 have their little rodent out underneath the right wing.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4702 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 76108 times:
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Quoting CM (Reply 2):
The red test rig looks like a setup to provide pressure data for the rat propeller in this location.

It sure looks like it with all the sensors mounted on this red testbed.


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 75982 times:

Quoting CM (Reply 2):

All right, you must be right

In fact, i'm just dreaming that A350 batch 3 will have thinner wall insulation, because
- right now the insulation seems even thicker than on A330 ... even if engine should be quieter (external diameter - internal diameter is 6" on 787, 6.5" on 777, 7 on A330 and 7.5 on A350 !!)
- batch 3 change are discussed to be cabin related...
- a couple of centimeters will help 10 abreast in economy class

But I'm dreaming



Btw I've found no other photo of similar tests, and i've seem no comments on the composite panel acoustic test bed
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...re-skin-panel-on-a340-this-341186/


User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 75736 times:

Re Reply 5. I was reading one of the many articles in the papers recently on the troubles of the 787.He went on to talk about it's many advantages,with particular reference to passenger comfort etc.At the end (he had clearly flown on it) he mentioned in passing that it was a noisy aircraft to fly on. I have no idea whether this is true or not. But referencing the above comment. I wondered whether the acoustic properties of a carbon tube was different (noisier) than a traditional 'tube' hence the need for additional accoustic insulation?

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10691 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 75533 times:

Update on MSN003:

- The forward and central fuselage sections have arrived in TLS, final assembly should begin in the next few days.
- MSN003 is behind schedule but the assembly team will try to recover some time.
- Completing the central fuselage was more challenging but problems have been fixed in advance to avoid travelling work.
- The aft section should arrive next month.

http://www.bloga350.blogspot.nl/2013...-final-assembly-will-start-in.html

[Edited 2013-01-22 03:33:46]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4702 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 75340 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
Update on MSN003:

Thanks for keeping us up to date. How much time the delay was (late delivery by Spirit) is at best almost 1 month since these panels were expected to be delivered just before Christmas (according to the link you provided). It will be interesting to see how much time they can make up on assembling MSN003.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 74079 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 5):
Btw I've found no other photo of similar tests, and i've seem no comments on the composite panel acoustic test bed

Actually if you look closely on the photo you will see that is indeed the insulation test bed A340, you see the composite panel above the RAT rake on the fuselage left hand side in front of the A350 text. It is the Alu panel which was replaced with a CFRP panel and which had and might still have new variants of the different insulation methods applied to it to test the sound and heat insulation capability vs weight, humidity absorption etc. You can see that the windows has a different shape to the A340 windows further back:




Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 73774 times:

Ferpe,
That's what I said
And I was (wrongly ?) guessing that the red device is an acoustic tool... mesuring noise behin the engine in order to make valid comparison between the old alumium skin and the various CFRP solutions tested for the A350
This red thing seems to be so much bigger than RAT !


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 73328 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 10):
This red thing seems to be so much bigger than RAT !

OK, I misunderstood you, but that can't be for the noise IMO as it is on the wrong side.

I have this picture I have shown before re placement of the air cond and inerting units, the RAT is also on there. It is placed like the 787 on the aft side of the wing-fairing, here on the belly slightly to the right, just as it is placed on the 340 test aircraft. No doubt the A340 test is to check the dynamic pressure (Q) for its deployment on the A350, it is sufficiently far out from the wing fairing to not have strong influences if it is a 340 fairing or the 350 one IMO. I would think they rather want to test cruise Q, start config Q and landing Q etc :

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/AircondinertingandRAT_zps23947434.jpg



Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 73177 times:

So it's OK for me.
I've seen your picture searching today more inputs  
I must listen experts out there

May I reasked : did anaybody has some inputs from this acoustics tests ?

Thanks


User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 72243 times:

Rolls-Royce have delivered the first XWB engine with the second one due in about two weeks.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4702 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 72083 times:
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Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 13):
Rolls-Royce have delivered the first XWB engine with the second one due in about two weeks.

That is another major milestone for the A350-XWB program.   Thanks for the update.


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 71367 times:

Yes great milestone
Looking for the EASA TCDS shortly ?


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 69653 times:

Excuse me for asking this maybe stupid question, but I saw the documentary on the BA 744 D-Check the other day (some of you may know it too), where they also show the effects of a lightning strike on aluminium compared to 'plastic' aircraft, which is rather radical.
My question is how Airbus is solving this matter. Seems to me like there must be a good balance between metal and non-metal parts on the fuselage?

Regards



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30558 posts, RR: 84
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 69616 times:
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Quoting Semaex (Reply 16):
My question is how Airbus is solving this matter.

Like Boeing, Airbus embeds a metal mesh into the CFRP. This metal mesh allows the lightning to travel to the metal understructure and then out of the plane.

This entry from the A350 blog provides more details as well as a link to a BBC video on the subject.


User currently offlineCM From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 69568 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 16):
Excuse me for asking this maybe stupid question, but I saw the documentary on the BA 744 D-Check the other day (some of you may know it too), where they also show the effects of a lightning strike on aluminium compared to 'plastic' aircraft, which is rather radical.
My question is how Airbus is solving this matter. Seems to me like there must be a good balance between metal and non-metal parts on the fuselage?

I have not seen the documentary, but if it was showing lightning damage to a composite part on a 744, then it would have been a sandwich construction composite with a lightweight (and likely honeycomb) core. This is a very different type of material than is used for the majority of structures on the A350 (and 787), which are primarily built of laminate (solid) CFRP material.

The reason why this is an important distinction when it comes to lightning strike is because sandwich composites almost always have some trapped moisture inside the core material. When lightning strikes this kind of composite structure, the lightning energy super-heats the trapped moisture, which in turn, blows the face sheets off of the core. Generally speaking, laminate composites do not have this same mechanism in play during a lightning strike.

However, the A350 has numerous features designed into its structure which help minimize the economic damage from a lightning strike. These include EAF and ECF (expanded aluminum and copper foils), as well as other conductive paths on the exterior of the airplane which serve both as shielding for the structure, as well as providing a "lightning rod" effect in the form of a path of least resistance for attachment of a direct lightning strike. These features are tied into the overall current return path of the airplane, permitting lightning energy to safely pass through the airplane (in the sense of entering at the wingtip and exiting through the tail) with minimal damage to structure or risk to airplane systems.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 68996 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
MSN003 is behind schedule but the assembly team will try to recover some time.

That is a phrase pregnant with badness...assembly *always* tries to recover some time but I've never seen that actually work. They're always the recipients of issues cascading down from farther up in the supply chain.

Tom.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 68846 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 7):
MSN003 is behind schedule but the assembly team will try to recover some time.

That is a phrase pregnant with badness...assembly *always* tries to recover some time but I've never seen that actually work. They're always the recipients of issues cascading down from farther up in the supply chain.

That is absolutely correct, what is meant however is that MSN5000 and MSN001 has come together on FAL from a pure assembly viewpoint better then the original planning foresaw, the fit of all the parts has been better then planned according to all involved (or they are outright lying  ). That does not isolate MSN0003 from the problem of late arriving parts or new problems with eg new or changed test installations. Lets see when she is finished, I think the original planning said roll-out 2-3 months after MSN001 ie June-July.



Non French in France
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1559 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 67618 times:

The FTB is doing cold weather testing in Iqaluit, a detailed news report attached, despite the news reporter stating that the A380 has 'several' engines, its worth watching.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/...0/north-airbus-engine-testing.html



BV
User currently offlineUnflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 443 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 67299 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 21):
The FTB is doing cold weather testing in Iqaluit, a detailed news report attached, despite the news reporter stating that the A380 has 'several' engines, its worth watching.

Nice find, thanks!

Interesting how the test engines control is "integrated" in the Cockpit - see 1:35.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 67223 times:

This should be about the last tests necessary for Engine certification, let's hope for that soon. Would be nice to look at the data in the TCDS.


Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 66911 times:

Hello

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=56505

Airbus is watching the Li-ion battery fate with optimism :
1) design is safe
2) in case of regulatory change, they've time for incorporating a change
3) a plan B might be in place

Have a nice day


25 RickNRoll : ""We identified this fragility at the start of development and we think we resolved it about a year ago," Bregier said. "Nothing prevents us from goin
26 Post contains images EPA001 : Good to see that they seem to be prepared for everything, and that they have confidence in the safety of their base design of the batteries. What "Pl
27 EPA001 : Thanks for the link. It is always nice to watch videos like these.
28 Post contains links BoeingVista : Looks like you can get pretty close to the action at Iqaluit.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T4Rcx0x_Y The poster of this video says that they were
29 Post contains links Aviaponcho : Hello guys New ACAPS for the A350-900 with a lot more details, and... http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...ch_data/AC/Airbus-ACA350-Jan13.pdf - Bulk
30 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here is a another nice picture of MSN001 in Iqaluit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/macinuk/8428072508/
31 Post contains images ferpe : Good catch Poncho, if 142t has something to do with the spec OEW (which is seems) then B does not have to be ashamed, this is 53% of MTOW versus the 7
32 sweair : It was reported some time ago that the first A359s had a few tons overweight, 2-4t iirc. Worst off was the A358. It´s a different world before the th
33 Aviaponcho : Ferpe, i guess that it is bow plus fuel (typical reserve fuel for typical trip). You won't drain fuel for every maintenance task It's my guess So mew
34 Stitch : Before Airbus stopped listing OEW in their ACAPS, they used the same criteria to define it as Boeing does. To wit (from the January 2011 A340-500/-600
35 a380900 : If the 787 engines are beginning a new trend, why are the trent XWB not featuring these very thick anti ice protections that can be seen on Trent 1000
36 ferpe : Do you mean that the lips are not painted? That is for the laminar flow as far as I know.
37 Post contains images KarelXWB : MSN001 in station 30 on February 1, 2013: And an update on MSN003: MSN003 is now ~ 1.5 month behind schedule.
38 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : And in other news, Airbus has started the first tests on MSN5000. http://www.airbus.com/no_cache/newse..._medium=all_news&utm_campaign=RSS# [Edite
39 Hloutweg : This is actually, aircraft zero, not MSN5000. But this is a great development.
40 aviaponcho : Can we compare it to BBD Ciasta for the Cseries ? (that is running since end of summer 2012 i think)
41 Post contains links BoeingVista : Yes, this is the iron bird. A350 blog reported it as having begun 'flying' this week. http://bloga350.blogspot.com.au/2013...xwb-virtually-makes-its-
42 ferpe : I think it has been "flying" for quite some time, what Airbus state is that the test bed flies exactly the missions that MSN001 will fly when they st
43 EPA001 : Your analysis sounds highly plausible. But even if this is the case, it is a very good thing that they have acted on the issue (if it is this issue)
44 knoxibus : Sorry but I have to correct you here. It does take up to 5 months to hook it up entirely. When you enter the "cathedral", you then realise how many c
45 Pugman211 : I may have missed the posts, but is there any updates/images/video of how the XWB blade off test went??? Also, what about the half wing ultimate load
46 aviaponcho : Remembering an Aweek article revealing 3 batches for the A350 Batch 1 : MSN1 to 5 Batch 2 : MSN6 to 16 Batch 3 : >MSN17 That was in end august 2012
47 ferpe : Thanks knoxibus, much appreciated. Now what delays MSN003 then, because Spirit was delivering for MSN5000 and 001 (and perhaps 002?, we don't know th
48 ferpe : The parts for Batch 1 (001 to 005) was already in production IMO, you start producing the long lead time items almost 2 years before FAL and when you
49 knoxibus : Not sure of the reasons. MSN 003 should be in pretty soon I hope.
50 Post contains links PM : http://www.rolls-royce.com/news/pres...070213_easa_type_certification.jsp 7th February 2013 : The TXWB receives EASA certification. The new engine has
51 Post contains images BoeingVista : Well done to RR and the A350 looks like all they were waiting for was the cold weather tests.
52 Semaex : Somebody has recently asked the question at what time the blade-off test was performed and whether there is any footage to it.... anybody? Congrats RR
53 BoeingVista : It was performed mid December I think, no footage of it has come to light so far. Probably have to wait for the making of the engine documentary in a
54 Post contains links ferpe : Here the type certificate for the Rolls-Royce Trent XWB: http://easa.europa.eu/certification/...XWB_Series_engines-01-07022013.pdf From Leeham OV-099:
55 Post contains images EPA001 : Great news for RR and the A350-XWB program.
56 Post contains links ferpe : And here the Airbus press release: http://www.airbus.com/no_cache/newse..._medium=all_press&utm_campaign=RSS Nice that Evrard says: "These new eng
57 BoeingVista : Yup she's a bit of a porker! EASA put the dry weight of the T900 as 6246 kg so 7277 for the XWB is +1031 kg We may have to reevaluate if we will see
58 Post contains images ferpe : You are right, that is 4.2t before the nacelle and pylons changes . With nacelles and new pylons/wing beefing it sets you back 200nm before you start
59 affirmative : Well, to put it in perspective. Didn't EK put a 4t system just to have their onboard spa? I don't see 4.2t as that much considering the gains. However
60 aviaponcho : Hello Thank you FERPE for the type certificate No ETOPS at this point No mention of the flat rated temperatures also The weight is said to be "maximum
61 KarelXWB : Correct me if I'm wrong but ETOPS certification should be done on a production frame (MSN 6?), so that's something for next year.
62 abba : Couldn't the gain in terms of efficient improvement outstrip the loss?
63 Post contains links ferpe : I did a check, the heavier TXWB A380 will fly 300nm longer ie some 8400nm, I then shortend the leg to 6000nm ESAD and it consumed 9t less fuell still
64 aviaponcho : Hello Ferpe At max range: 300 NM is a 40 min flight ... so 6-7 t of fuel or so ? How can it be - 9 t at only 6000 Nm ? The XWB report is conflicting ?
65 JerseyFlyer : The article referred to by Ferpe states; “We will get more power out of the core by making it bigger and improve the turbine’s capabilities to run
66 mjoelnir : I think we will not see a trent xwb on the A 380-800. We will see a flow of technologies downwards. Regarding the advertised differences in fuel burn
67 Post contains images ferpe : Lets do it a bit more methodical and see if I did any thought somersaults . I take a 575t std A380 having a range of 8300nm where it consumed 226t of
68 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : An A350 section being (un)loaded from/in the Beluga. Picture taken today. (uploaded by http://www.flickr.com/photos/xfwspotter)
69 ferpe : I checked the Spirit Aerosystems webcast from their 2012 call today, the A350 delays came up. Spirit CEO said these were caused by "late braking chang
70 KarelXWB : Just a stupid question but will there be a MSN5001 like the A380 had? Now that's interesting. It's getting more interesting! So parts for MSN003 are d
71 travelavnut : Please allow me to retort with probably a dumber question; what was the A380 MSN5001 frame used for? A second static test frame?[Edited 2013-02-12 13
72 KarelXWB : The A380 MSN5000 was used for static tests while MSN5001 was used for fatigue testing. Boeing also had 2 787 frames for this (ZY997 and ZY998). For th
73 Post contains links and images ferpe : The part being loaded into the Beluga is a section 11-14 (ie direct behind the cockpit) made in Nordenham, it is being flown from XFW to St Nazaire to
74 Post contains images ferpe : That section 15-21 does not appear in FAL until now in Feb is normal, Spirit does only upper body structural parts. It produces the panels in Kinston
75 Post contains links ferpe : So Airbus has taken the safe route as there was little to gain from staying with Li-Ion batteries but much to loose. Better focus on other problems: A
76 astuteman : Having test aircraft flying with Li-Ion batteries presumably supports the option of reverting to Li-Ion at a later date, once technical uncertainties
77 Part147 : The way I see it, Airbus seems more concerned about possible problems the FAA/EASA may have certifying Li-Ion technology and has so, rightly I think,
78 aviaponcho : All right, It won't make Boeing life easier I think ... stuck with Li-ion !
79 Post contains images astuteman : That's how I see it too ... Going forward, they can use the test frames flying with Li-Ion batteries to "Ion" out the certification problems in slowe
80 Post contains links jpmagero : Airbus to drop Lithium-Ion Batteries in A350
81 KarelXWB : Smart move. I'm sure Airbus still has confidence in the Li-ion battery but it may take months before the NTSB found the problem, and the fix - whateve
82 Post contains links ferpe : And now it is official: http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...plan-b-for-the-a350-xwb-batteries/ " Airbus activates “Plan B” for the A350 XWB bat
83 KarelXWB : Any idea about the extra weight?
84 kmz : ? I am not sure. I either develop something according spec and requirements or I don't. Or I am not sure. Not good. They should continue with the Li-
85 RayChuang : It may also depend on if the vastly safer dry-electrode Lithium-ion batteries became available in the next few years. If the safer Li-On packs do beco
86 PW100 : The problem is that in the light of the 787 problems, and as a fall-out of the lessons learned, certification standards (CS - Certification Specifica
87 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : MSN1 today: http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/303561644171210753 A high-res picture can be found at http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/[Edit
88 Post contains images lightsaber : I'm excited to see this plane is progressing to first flight. Good to see. Having an iron bird 'flying' really helps stress certain software code. For
89 Post contains links and images ferpe : The most honorable senator is covering some vital parts of our aeroplane but what one can see is: - all areo surfaces seems to be there now (slats, d
90 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : First winglet is on!
91 Post contains images knoxibus : The two of them actually! Be prepared for some spotting soon.
92 aviaponcho : Ferpe, The last photo is from MSN1 or 3 ? what's your source ?
93 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : Ahh you beat me to it! Just posted it, but then my internet went out so it didnt post
94 Post contains images travelavnut : It looks awesome!! It has been said over- and over again, but I think I speak for the big group of leechers following this thread; ferpe, KarelXWB, l
95 Post contains images ferpe : If anything should be called a "Sharklet" it should be these, the A320 variant is tame in comparison. Beautiful . It is actually MSN001 I think, the
96 aviaponcho : Thank Next Airbus "Leak" must be MSN3 ... I hope For engines, It'a a no brainer I think ... RR shouting that they are in TLS and EASA having them cert
97 Post contains links KarelXWB : Hi ferpe, This video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0jlu0ghNIg shows the engines being attached after painting. I have two questions: - Does this m
98 Post contains images ferpe : We discussed this up-thread. The nacelles can be painted before the frame and the reason for hanging the engines late are probably value related, A a
99 KarelXWB : Thanks, I overlooked that information.[Edited 2013-02-19 08:27:04]
100 Post contains images bigsmile : I believe Friday is a good day to go spotting
101 travelavnut : Great video. Can anybody sheld some light on the reason the sequence of the stations is 59 > 50 > 40 > 30 > 18 > P > 20?
102 ferpe : It was also debated up-thread, we think it was because the old station system (all the way back to SNIAS/Aerospatial, forerunner of todays TLS FAL) n
103 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : With the risk you shoot me ... I've compared the picture of MSN1 on February 1 with the picture of today and I noticed the red door covers are gone:
104 Acheron : Probably to avoid damage while tools/furnishings/equipment are being moved around the doors.
105 Post contains images ferpe : No one gets shot around here and it's a very good question as well ! As knoxibus and bidsmile hints, it is shortly from moving the bird to stations 1
106 packsonflight : I guess it is red as "remove before flight" item like pitot cover.
107 Post contains images KarelXWB : Thanks everyone! It's starting to look like the rumoured roll-out date in April is becoming reality. Fingers crossed of course.[Edited 2013-02-20 00:3
108 Post contains links aviaponcho : Sounds good for me You can't move the airplane with open doors http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-r_4px-X7Uh...353674420_A350_XWB_static_test.jpg So if red co
109 flood : Wow, the winglet looks absolutely fantastic from that angle... looking forward to more pics. Bring on the roll-out!
110 Post contains images KarelXWB : That's how I read it too First station 18 for outdoor tests with ground power, then painting and engine attachment.[Edited 2013-02-20 00:41:07]
111 Post contains images knoxibus : I think you mix up building names and stations, that's why. While I will try to only use info already available on the net, just to make it clear, th
112 aviaponcho : Flute Sorry Damned
113 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : MSN003 fuselage join completed! http://twitter.com/Airbus/status/304156393940860928[Edited 2013-02-20 01:26:09]
114 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : MSN003 parts in station 59: Joining the parts:
115 Post contains images travelavnut : Woops, didn't catch that, sorry Ferpe!
116 Post contains images aviaponcho : Ferpe will not be happy It's only low resolution pics, so he can't ding inside the fuselage to hunt improvements
117 Post contains images EPA001 : It sure does. Great picture! . I second that. This thread is fantastic and is an example of what Airliners.net such a great website to be on. . Maybe
118 Post contains images ferpe : You are sooooo right
119 Post contains images aviaponcho : I was planning the same
120 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Airbus is watching this thread, a high-res picture is now available at http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/
121 aviaponcho : Fine ! We're watching Airbus Airbus watches us Everything's fine
122 Post contains images Pihero : There is a bit of a quiet time (before another flurry as we're so close to the rollout ). I spent my afternoon and my all evening off reading all this
123 Post contains images ferpe : Thanks for the retrospect. As you say we want the 787 to fly ASAP, for two good reasons : - good for Boeing and the airline industry - we get CM and
124 abba : THE most interesting threat on A-net ever! Indeed they are!
125 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : A little bit more information about MSN003: the fuselage join-up took place in station 50B which had a higher readiness level thanks to debugging that
126 KarelXWB : Pratt & Whitney Said to Study Airbus A350 Engine to Rival Rolls
127 EPA001 : That could be an interesting development. But they are quite late to arrive at the party.
128 PW100 : . . . combined with . . . could indicate that P&W are looking seriously at A389 territory for their next step: (Wide-Body) WB-GTF. Application of
129 sf260 : I was just thinking this earlier on: if GE and P&W extend their EA joint venture with a sort of "GEnx90 GTF", they might produce a hell of an eng
130 ferpe : While it is logical I am not sure PW is 100% happy with the limitations that EA has had. They signed the agreement for a 70-80klbf engine for 4 holer
131 AngMoh : Any success spotting last Friday?
132 BoeingVista : Any extension onto the A350 would need EU agreement, the EA JV is limited to 4 engined aircraft. The first availible slot for a PW engine would be in
133 Rheinbote : You don't want anyone or anything to bump into these doors - they are 6-digit dollar items. Standrd color for all kinds of protective gear for airpla
134 francoflier : Undoubtedly. Any interesting and competitive engine in that thrust range will be a GTF, and I doubt they'll want to share much of that tech with GE o
135 flyglobal : If I read the blomberg article right, Air France would be interested and could be first partner. And it could raise interest of Airbus for the A350 at
136 BoeingVista : Air France may just be looking for leverage to get RR to allow them to open a TXWB MRO operation.
137 Post contains images EPA001 : The AF-KLM A350-order is according to rumors very close to the finish line. What and how the parties have agreed upon on the engines is still a secre
138 Post contains images PM : Along with an AFKL order for Trent 1000s for their 787s.
139 Post contains links KarelXWB : Unfortunately the expected date of signing the contract has been changed from Q1 2013 to "during 2013". http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...sults-
140 flyglobal : First Airbus isn't really Air France's first candidate 'to fall in love with', rather an emotionless relationship and in this case they even have to
141 Post contains links KarelXWB : Airbus is looking to add another assembly line. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...s-787-woes-fail-to-dent-sales.html
142 knoxibus : All right, the spotting can start, the beast is out!
143 Post contains images EPA001 : That is great news. Hope to see some pictures soon.
144 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Can anyone point out on Google Maps where to find 'station 18' ?
145 Post contains links knoxibus : Here it is, I hope the link works: http://goo.gl/maps/1Vu8W It is quite in a different size league re. the height next to the A330s currently there.
146 Post contains images KarelXWB : Aha, so that is "station 18". Thanks. What are you waiting for, go grab your camera!
147 Post contains images knoxibus : I was at the "outting" this morning for the official pictures in front of the aircraft, why grab a camera when one professional photographer takes a p
148 Post contains images KarelXWB : Now the Airbus social media department needs to upload those pictures No need to feel sorry, we all are excited!
149 Post contains images BoeingVista : Brag away, just no making bunny signs behind peoples heads
150 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : BAM!
151 Post contains links KarelXWB : And the press release: A high-res picture can be found at http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...plete-emerges-for-outdoor-testing/[Edited 2013-02-26
152 BoeingVista : The high res shows her traveling flaps down spoilers up, hydraulics must be pressurized as nose gear door is shut.
153 abba : What a babe! And just look at these huge and elegant wings! The impression completely changed when the winglets came on. Now we only need to see her p
154 Post contains images scbriml : Wow, and I thought the A330 looked good! I think they may need to hang a pair of stonking Rollers under the wings as well!
155 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : Thanks for the picture. Its finally starting to take shape Just needs some engines and some paint!
156 Post contains links and images ferpe : Nice, and a little earlier then one would have thought. Is the plan good enough for flight before le Bourget??? The nose looked a little funny before,
157 JD747 : I think it's going to be a great looking airplane !!
158 Post contains images AustrianZRH : Now that's what I call a good looking airplane. I was worried that the new cockpit design spoils her looks but - at least from that angle - it's a go
159 Post contains images rwood89 : Well hello! I cannot wait to see it with the Trent XWB's hanging and a lick of paint. I really hope Airbus have learnt lessons and this aircraft can
160 Post contains images Semaex : Is it just the perspective or are the wings LARGE? And winglets like razorblades! Gimme some powerplants and the dark side of the force has a new busi
161 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Parked between the A330's: (uploaded by Flox Papa)[Edited 2013-02-26 10:00:15]
162 Post contains images ferpe : Seems the call-sign is set, picture says: F-WXWB time to program it into flightradar24 soon to follow the gauntlet testing .
163 Post contains links and images Bogi : very nice
164 Post contains images affirmative : WOW! She is absolutely stunning. A bit menacing, almost frowning.. Love it! Two thing really strikes me though. The distance between the wheels of the
165 Post contains images KarelXWB : The ground tests should not last long. To me it looks like MSN001 will meet the rumoured roll out date in April. But there is still a lot of work to
166 Post contains links and images flood : Couple more pics: Looking great, love those wings and look forward to seeing her painted up with engines.
167 Post contains images kmz : the inner leading edge of the wings is pretty sharp...i haven't seen such a profile yet. [Edited 2013-02-26 12:17:11] [Edited 2013-02-26 12:21:45]
168 Post contains links and images ferpe : Nice observation and magnifications, I did another observation: Both being very recent designs the aerodynamic shapes of the cockpit chins and wing f
169 Post contains images kmz : we need a side-view picture [Edited 2013-02-26 12:44:31]
170 Post contains images sturmovik : Long time reader of the thread, first time posting here. Thanks everyone for the amazing discussion, it's been a pleasure to read. Seeing the pics, sh
171 Post contains images kmz : I also wonder if this main landing gear configuration is louder during landing phase than the classic configuration because of the additional beam whi
172 ferpe : It it the design that Boeing has used since the 767 at least, thus anyone which has flown the 767, 777, 787 should know if it has more landing gear d
173 Post contains images davs5032 : Wow...she's definitely a looker! The winglets are fantastic, they definitely standout. I don't love the 6-pane cockpit (seems excessive/out dated as o
174 Phen : Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the shorter the aircraft, the larger the vertical stabiliser. The A332's vertical stabiliser is bigger th
175 ImperialAero : Partially correct, the longer the aircraft, the longer the moment arm for the rudder so the smaller the area required to produce the same force, howe
176 Post contains images travelavnut : Being hammered after a hard days work I cannot for the life of me remember what the other debuting plane is, please help me!
177 AngMoh : C-Series
178 Part147 : Thanks so much for keeping us up to date with great pics guys - really appreciate it! From the hi-res pictures, it looks like she has a tail-mounted c
179 kanban : as I look at the two, the 787 seems to be more plebeian but more poised for flight, the A350 seems a haughty be-speckled maiden.. however I'd fly eit
180 Pihero : The apprent differences in the wing designs are striking : The 787 airfoil at the junction to the fuselage seems to show its max thickness further fo
181 ferpe : The vertical stabilizer is a wing just like any other wing, it's ultimate force is to counteract those 84klbf strong Trents in an engine out case. By
182 douglasyxz : Looks like a little bird that has just craweld out of its eggshell, knowing it's supposed to fly but doesn't know how. Patience, little bird, you'll b
183 autothrust : I never understood why Airbus generally made such big flap mechanism fairings, like on the A330 compared to the rather smaller on the 777. Now it see
184 Post contains links abba : As to the overall shape of the wing when looking at the profile from the front. It seems as if the 350 have a somewhat curved wing (as does the 330).
185 oldeuropean : Well, the engines (or substitute weights) are not mounted. The wings will come down a bit.[Edited 2013-02-27 00:45:58]
186 abba : I do not think that this will make the difference. If you draw a line from the wing root to the pylon and another line from the pylon to where the wi
187 moo : I think its a bit disingenuous to say "took it so long for Airbus to figure that out" as that puts a certain slant on it. Aircraft design is a huge b
188 Post contains images EPA001 : She looks more and more promising indeed. And that without the engines and the paint. Thanks for the "BAM". . She sure is. Those wings are gorgious,
189 Post contains links and images ferpe : You mean the broken line on the A350 (red and yellow in the picture) vs the straigth line for a 787 from root to tip: The reason (IMO) is a combinati
190 abba : Exactly (I am sorry I can't work with pics as well as you) - and thank you for your explanation. Beside the technical reasons it gives the 350 a cert
191 overcast : I'm just wondering out load the timeline to first flight. I assume the outstanding tasks are: 1. Station 18 - Fuel, Hydraulics, Pressurisation 2. Pain
192 moo : The A380 has its public reveal on 18th January 2005, and its first flight on 27th April 2005. The A380 was seen in a similar state to the A350 in thi
193 Post contains images Starbucks : Soooo finally registered after years of just reading (and especially this thread) Just want to thank everybody and I'll try to make my contribution to
194 KarelXWB : Can't require that much time, 2 to 3 weeks maybe? 1 week? You are forgetting one more step: station 20 for engine attachment and cockpit finishing. T
195 Post contains images ferret : I am personally a little disappointed in the nose of the aircraft. I understand the need for commonality, but the windscreen shapes look dated and dis
196 autothrust : Couldn't agree more. Really dissapointing, If they would have keep the old A350 nose design it would have been revolutionary. Instead the 787 looks w
197 art : I can understand that the nose gear is dictated by engineering considerations but is there anything to dictate the shape of the cockpit windows? Woul
198 Stitch : No. Airbus changed to the A380 windscreen geometry for cost and time reasons, not due to an issue with the original design.
199 Pihero : Everything is dictated by engineering choices : Putting the nose gear so far forwards - about 1 m closer to the pilots'seat than the 787 - 1/ makes t
200 Post contains images PM : Is it just me, or does it look rather 757-ish? And I mean that as a compliment!
201 astuteman : Yes. Cost vs benefit trade-off. Rgds
202 Post contains images Part147 : Now, now gentlemen... let's not fall out over it!
203 Post contains images astuteman : That was us agreeing. Couldn't you tell? Rgds
204 14ccKemiskt : That is why all A350s are going to get the area around and between the cockpit windows painted black. Haven't you seen all the CGI promotion pictures
205 Post contains links and images ferpe : The A350 blog has a short story saying RR is shipping spare engines so that the flight test can be safely done even if FOD would hit one of the flight
206 Post contains images starbucks : Looking at this a little bit further in your linked file I would say your guess is right
207 KarelXWB : I have no doubt that Airbus is internally aiming for a first flight before the air show. But they are not creating a hype so to the outside world they
208 parapente : I have no doubt that Airbus is internally aiming for a first flight before the air show. Post 207 If they do, we could end up with the interesting sit
209 rwood89 : Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the 787 become nearly airbourne during high speed taxi tests? I'm positive I read it during the fground test campa
210 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : More pictures: 1) MSN001 with MSN003 in the background 2) Group hug! (where is knoxibus ) 3) Station 18 [Edited 2013-03-02 02:46:31]
211 CCA : The aft wing body fairing is very unique.
212 Post contains images teme82 : Indeed it is. Would love to see a close up on that part of the plane.
213 Post contains images starbucks : I think I'm in love.. :P Can't wait to see those huge Rollers on her wings and some paint...
214 a380900 : Yes, it looks "simpler" that what we used to see on the A320 and A380 which looked fairly similar for an untrained eye. Does anyone know what's up wi
215 Post contains images EPA001 : That will make a huge difference imho. And it is already a great looking airplane. .
216 BoeingVista : If you look closely there is a square blue thing with a yellow base hanging from the pylons, i think that this is a weight Looks like they have taken
217 Post contains images KarelXWB : If I understand it correctly those weights are used so the plane won't tip on its tail. No idea why MSN001 does not have those weights attached but i
218 Post contains links Pihero : You'll have more details in the 350 site. Click on the drawings and you'll see that Airbus have really done a good job sculpting the wing-to-body jun
219 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Click for full size:
220 Post contains links Revelation : I happened to google up a report from the same series from Oct 2012 (great minds think alike?) that also said the same goal: http://www.goodrich.com/
221 Post contains images EPA001 : Time will tell indeed. My guess is that the A350-900 will be the version with the best proportions. Just as I like the A340-500 better then the A340-
222 autothrust : Am i the only one who thinks the horizontal stabiliser looks like a fish fin? The fuselage and wings are amazing.
223 Post contains images kmz : let's hope it is aerodynamically 100% ...otherwise the a/c might produce some nice soundz
224 Post contains links and images ferpe : The sculpturing of the wing fairing is indeed intriguing, I have seldom seen such an elaborate shaping on an airliner, perhaps on a high M (0.9 or mor
225 Chipmunk2307 : Is it a sound theory that the fairing is probably oversized for its current requirements but appropriately sized for the A350-1000 which is suggested
226 zeke : ARTF Kit, batteries included. Kit does not contain Pilots, Engines, and Fuel. Fuel required : Jet A, Jet A1 or similar.
227 ferpe : No, I would not think so. The wing fairing is made up of many small pieces and therefore easily modified in length, just make the section over the ma
228 Chipmunk2307 : Thank you for that. I wasn't sure to what degree of commonality is actually kept between various models of the same plane. I would have thought you s
229 Post contains links and images ferpe : A wing fairing on a modern airliner is a lattice of access hatches and panels all attached to a metal frame, see the left and top pictures below. I a
230 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : @ferpe (and others ) I've found another high-res picture of MSN001 in station 30. This one is from February 11: http://www.eads.com/eads/int/en/news.
231 Post contains links and images ferpe : It is a nice high-res picture, what one can observe there is what you point out, how extensive the scaffolding/platform build-up is compared to e.g.
232 Post contains images KarelXWB : And that's already an old picture with a lot of scaffolding around the wings. Later pictures shows almost no scaffolding at all: [Edited 2013-03-03 0
233 packsonflight : I find the picture above taken from behind interesting... Is the red square attached to the fuselage in the tail skid position the skid pad for the mi
234 Pihero : It's Airbus trademark area ruling on this part. See similar pictures of the A380. The design is much simpler than for the wing-to-body fairing as the
235 BoeingVista : That would be a fair bet. I think an interesting design point is the flat top of the fuselage at the vertical stabiliser, it hardly tapers at all in
236 777222LR : Can anyone tell me how high this aircraft sits compared to the 777? This baby looks tall, and I'm not talking about tail height, as that's not a good
237 Post contains links Pihero : From the A350 ACAP page 2.3.0 gives the bottom of the engine at n.74m / 2.43 ft and page 5.4.2 p 3 gives the external power receptacle at 2.58 m... N
238 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : I've found a pictue of MSN001's cockpit as it was in October last year: (uploaded by Alberto Garcia) Alberto confirmed this is MSN001. http://www.flic
239 douglasyxz : I'm wondering why sidestick, gear, flaps and thrust levers are covered while speed and parking brake levers are not.
240 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : A center fuselage part has been spotted in Hamburg: (uploaded by Olivier Cabaret) http://www.flickr.com/photos/oliviercabaret/8534626888/in/photostrea
241 overcast : That section should never get anywhere near Hamburg in that level of completion, so I'd assume it's for Fatigue testing.
242 abba : I wonder about the funny painting on the lower part. Why is that?
243 KarelXWB : Sorry I had it wrong, this picture was taken in Saint-Nazaire.
244 Post contains images KL911 : Lol, that is no paint, it is where the wings will be attached to the fuselage
245 abba : Yep - the grey area is where the wing will be attached - not the funny brown area surrounding it (unless Airbus is going to put on a homogeneously hu
246 KL911 : If you look at the picture at post 224 you see what I mean
247 ferpe : I think it indeed is the fatigue test specimen for the central test unit going to IABG Erding outside Munich if I am not mistaken. Post 73 show this
248 Post contains links and images ferpe : I can confirm it is the EF2 units for the fatigue tests in Erding, looking closely in the picture one can see that the belly fairing metal frames are
249 KarelXWB : Spirit had delivered 4 flying middle sections and 2 non flying to Sint Nazaire until February 1. But the fact that this fuselage section is outside (
250 Post contains images KarelXWB : My post above is a bit pointless now but I did not see you second post until now Can we start a new production thread? This one is quite large alread
251 abba : Well - compared to the photo in post 224 the wing faring stops well short of the door while the brownish color continues well beyond the door as far
252 Post contains images ferpe : Thanks, I miss remembered what Spirit said in their call in Feb. This is quite interesting as the next delivery from Spirit is the last prototype one
253 Post contains images KarelXWB : Now the question is: when will the next prototype enter final assembly? MSN003 was 2 months behind schedule due "late breaking changes", will this al
254 ferpe : MSN002 structure was produced before MSN003, it just takes long in preFAL as there is more to fit. The noises from A that Spirit delayed things start
255 Post contains images ferpe : Re scheduling during 2013, I found this old schema on how the flight test should pan out, it should be still valid just with a re-dating of the start
256 KarelXWB : Thank you ferpe. Now why is there such a big gap between MSN003 and MSN004? Final assembly of those 2 should also go much faster (according the chart)
257 Post contains images ferpe : Because the structure for 4 comes after F(atigue, the order is 1, S, 2, 3, F, 4, 5 ), thus the jump but it seems a bit large as they should be close
258 Pugman211 : I know for a fact that MSN 002 has 1 wing painted in UK, (only paint the d-nose before the slats get fitted at Bremen) so they should be ready to tran
259 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : I downloaded the Spirit 2012 Earnings Presentation and noticed: There were 3 A350 deliveries to Airbus last year (and 0 in 2011). But during the prese
260 KarelXWB : Great. We know it took about a month to outfit the wings of MSN001 in Bremen. Fuselage join-up of the A350 can start without the wings, so MSN002 mig
261 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : This came in on Twitter: "#Airbus #A350 first flight will be July or Aug, EADS CEO Enders tells reporters in NYC. In time for Paris? Would take a "mir
262 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks for the update. And since miracles are usually very rare, I do not think we are going to see the A350-XWB at the Paris Air Show. But as long a
263 Post contains images EPA001 : But may there have been any changes due to the circumstances of the current program situation? In other words, can you confirm this? Thanks in advanc
264 N14AZ : Well, well, well. We have seen this before. It remains to be seen how many design changes they will identify during the next phases and if these earl
265 moo : Deliveries are not production rates - we don't know how long those additional three sections were completed awaiting rework or sign off before they c
266 Post contains links iowaman : Due to the length of this thread, I am opening up part 8 here: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8 (by iowaman Mar 7 2013 in Civil Aviation) This
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