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Bombardier CSeries Update Part 3  
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 704 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 9 months 2 days ago) and read 57698 times:

New pics from the FAL posted by BBD

FTV1 is completely assembled (except parts like slats and leading edge)

We can see FTV2 & FTV3 in the background (partially assembled)
http://static.ow.ly/photos/original/1oSFz.jpg
http://ow.ly/i/1oSFz/original

http://static.ow.ly/photos/original/1oSr5.jpg
http://ow.ly/i/1oSr5/original

http://static.ow.ly/photos/original/1oVaz.jpg
http://ow.ly/i/1oVaz/original

271 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 740 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days ago) and read 57719 times:

From what I hear, FTV1 will be receiving its engines soon and FTV2 its wings. Seems like the assembly is progressing very well without any major issues.

Good job Bombardier.



I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlineseahawks7757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 57462 times:

When is the first flight expected to be?

User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5072 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 57286 times:

Wow! That is a good looking airplane. I really like the cockpit windows and shape of the nose. Sexy all the way!


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 57087 times:

You can really tell those winglets were inspired by crj winglets... beautiful bird

User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 57074 times:

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 1):
FTV1 will be receiving its engines soon

Maybe next week.

ftv1 has its landing gear on and is ready to have the engines mounted


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1896 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 56909 times:

The most beautiful narrowbody on the planet. Sorry, A320.


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 632 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 56796 times:

Great news
I'm still amazed how few thread this all now not so evolutionnary and rather revoltionnary airplane generates on this forum !

So now we have : the tail and fuselage for FTV2 and 3 !
Very good


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 56717 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 7):

With all the bad news lately, I think some are a bit gun shy to cheer too loudly lest something goes sideways...but it is great to see progress on the program.

I doubt many will be shocked if the CSeries flies before their summer deadline.



What the...?
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 632 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 56695 times:

Bad news ?
A 6 month delay that surprises nobody
And some suprising orders at the end of 2012...

Not so bad news i think


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 56595 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 9):

Sorry...I meant bad aerospace news in general, not bad CSeries news specifically. Personally, I've been quite pleased and impressed with the progress.



What the...?
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 632 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 56512 times:

All right !
Good progress I think !


User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1607 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 56495 times:

The choice of AlLi for the tube and 'C' for the wings may well turn out to be an inspired decision. Whilst it has not happened yet, the high density version of the 300 may well attract some of the LCC's I feel. Best of luck to them.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11667 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 56476 times:

Good news indeed, it is one fantastic looking aircraft.

Quoting parapente (Reply 12):
Whilst it has not happened yet, the high density version of the 300 may well attract some of the LCC's I feel.

Almost guaranteed, especially if the CS500 is unofficially waved under their noses. There are a lot of current A319/320 operators who are showing interest.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 589 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 56296 times:

I feel guilty for even asking, but here it goes anyway....what type of batteries are intended for use on the C-series?

Cheers!

SLCPilot



I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 55773 times:

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 14):

Ix-nay on the atteries-bay.

[Edited 2013-01-22 09:50:40]


What the...?
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 55720 times:

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 14):
what type of batteries are intended for use on the C-series?

I hear they spared no expense and chose the "no self-immolation" option.


User currently offlinewb556 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2011, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 55066 times:

I believe they have gone for a small colony of Russian hampsters with a running wheel / dynamo assembly.

Boeing engineers are apparently studying a higher capacity mk.2 version using chinchillas as a stop gap measure for the 787.

[Edited 2013-01-22 10:46:33]

User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2067 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 54884 times:

So I guess the first flight will be in April:

-2 months to wrap up assembly and instrumentation fit-out.
-1 month for all ground testing
-First Flight


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4108 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 54699 times:

In all seriousness, this aircraft is shaping up nicely. With the GTF looking to exceed expectations, BBD may have a real winner on their hands here...hopefully once some real data comes in from testing the orders will pick up.

User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 54538 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
Sorry...I meant bad aerospace news in general, not bad CSeries news specifically. Personally, I've been quite pleased and impressed with the progress.

Thanks for the laughs, guys. But I too wonder if Bombardier is now re-checking its battery decisions while keeping an eye on Boeing. Anyone know enough about the C-Series electrical system to make a useful comment?

Since this is a Canadian bird, I expect that circular cage will be big enough for a couple of beavers. For the CS500, it will be a moose.

[Edited 2013-01-22 11:41:29]


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13250 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 54237 times:
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Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):
With the GTF looking to exceed expectations,

What is the latest news? My sources have gone very quiet... Which they should. They were happy before and they're not calling to get drunk (so the news isn't a downside miss), but I haven't heard.

I suspect Embraer was influenced by 'Bombardier related' data.   

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 7):
I'm still amazed how few thread this all now not so evolutionnary and rather revoltionnary airplane generates on this forum !

Exactly. This plane's cost per flight will re-invigorate the size category of narrowbodies.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 15):
Ix-nay on the atteries-bay.

  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 54063 times:

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 14):
I feel guilty for even asking, but here it goes anyway....what type of batteries are intended for use on the C-series?



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineodwyerpw From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 53831 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 15):
Ix-nay on the atteries-bay.

Awesome. Thanks for the moment of levity.

Not that it is an all important metric, but it looks pretty. It will be nice to see it in operation.



Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 12074 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 53757 times:

Just a stupid question but I assume this one is the CS100?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
25 m1m2 : Why not use a "C" cell? That's funny. So is the thought of seeing a full-size moose run around in a very large hamster wheel!
26 FriendlySkies : I don't have any sources, that's just the general consensus feel I get from what I've read in various places. That and the lack of any bad news, alon
27 rikkus67 : Proud to see the largest completely indigeous aircraft ever built in Canada coming together! WIth fingers crossed, let's hope the delays are now behin
28 BE77 : And we all agree to convict you. I dunno, it's not that big from what I see. It would be a challenge to fit a DHC-2 or a Murphy SR3500 inside even a
29 davs5032 : Big thanks to Queb and others for the pics and updates. There's so little information coming out of BBD that it's easy to forget about the C-series am
30 rampbro : Has there been any info on first flight(s)? This would be a worthwhile way to burn some aeroplan points.
31 Post contains images Devilfish : I hear that scheme has been set aside due to CG issues . But it'd be great to see the CSeries or EmbNG here for a change.
32 mad99 : Engines should be attached Monday and to do that she needs to be moved so i reckon this weekend we should see some pics of her on the landing gear
33 lollomz : I think it's very beautiful, the winglets remind me the CRJs , the launch customer will be Swiss, am I wrong?
34 Post contains links queb : the launch customer is unidentified at this time http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...oses-second-as-qatar-retreats.html
35 Post contains links queb : United Technologies Completes Engine Testing for Bombardier Jet "United Technologies Corp. UTX +0.41% has completed the testing of its geared-turbofan
36 Post contains links queb : I forgot the link:
37 infiniti329 : Bombardier dosent use a moving assembly line "where the aircraft is moved" to assemble the c-series?
38 Post contains links Aviaponcho : Queb you forgot this one
39 queb : URL are not displayed and "Edit Post" function doesn't work...
40 Post contains images r2rho : Nice. Good to see her coming together, as Bombardier had been more "secretive" on the assembly process than Airbus with the A350. For comparison: we
41 ytz : So who wants to venture a guess on when it'll fly? My guess is end March.
42 Post contains images lightsaber : Excellent! Agreed on everything except I do not think they'll even fly the A350 at the airshow (too much downside risk with little upside). Lightsabe
43 Post contains images Quantos : Looks awesome! I can't wait to see the bird fly
44 JoeCanuck : It's so nice to have a break from the bad news and controversy and be able to enjoy some positive news for a change. The 787 battery threads have degr
45 ytz : I'm still crossing fingers that this doesn't turn out to be Bombardier's nightmareliner. So far, they seem to be doing a lot better than Boeing did. A
46 Planemaker : In Davos, Switzerland, Pierre Beaudoin said today to the Canadian Press that he "hopes that its CSeries airliners will take its first flight in June.
47 robsaw : Obviously the C-series engineers are hiding some potentially deadly design decision ; ) It would be nice to see this design proceed at least nominall
48 ytz : Interesting. I remember reading somewhere that the fastest Bombardier ever put together a plane was 5 months. I also remember reading that they were
49 JoeCanuck : There might not be a hold up...they gave themselves an extra six months so they can use as much time as they need. If they get done ahead of schedule
50 SXDFC : Does anyone know when the CS300 will begin production? Also pardon my ignorance, but is this A/C designed to compete with the E-190?
51 BlueSky1976 : CS-100 competes with E-190. CS-300 competes with A319neo and 737-7
52 Post contains images ferpe : The C-series is a less complex aircraft then the A350 but not much, both are conventional bleed FBW aircraft system wise. The A350 FTV1 was structura
53 Post contains images r2rho : Impossible - at that phase of the flight test program they'll be opening up the flight envelope and checking the aero & handling qualities models
54 Aviaponcho : Indeed, what I find the most encouraging is that FTV2 and FTV3 are already in FAL... with some fuselage mating done ... It's not a race between Airbus
55 clemsonaj : I didn't think there was any degradation. It was that way from the start.
56 Post contains links and images sf260 : PW1524G certification is finished: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...fication-of-cseries-engine-381693/ Congrats to PW! Can't wait to see the bir
57 planemaker : I think that BBD will be more conservative in announcing targets after insisting in late Oct that first flight would still happen by end of year. You
58 mad99 : not yet but look for it soon so both engines are on and she's on the landing gear!
59 kaneporta1 : Is Mirabel set up for a moving line? And are the engines already on? I thought it was going to be soon but not this soon! What does FTV2 look like?[E
60 Flighty : Could this be because smaller is better? With fewer project managers, fewer engineering sites etc, they seem to be in better control of the overall p
61 JoeCanuck : It may have something to do with Bombardier's experience with outsourcing. They've been dealing with primary structures from N.Ireland, Mexico, USA,
62 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : I forgot to add -200 at the end.
63 miller22 : Just found out today that the CSeries uses only NiCad batteries, not Lithium-Ion. Safe bet by Bombardier!
64 Post contains images Rheinbote : Gotta love those high resolution images from the final assembly line. This is the stuff people were fired for not too long ago. Look at the horizontal
65 lightsaber : That they're getting quite a bit of help from UTC! Have been actually since at least 1999... Lightsaber
66 planemaker : ... and that BBD has been late on all their programs, particularly when they were 2nd and/or 3rd stretches of existing models.
67 mad99 : yip ftv2 should have wings by next week and ftv3 barrel is coming together bbd's first engine on wing plane is getting close!!!
68 Post contains images TWA772LR : Hopefully some orders for the CSeries will come from the US... I'm not a fan of sidesticks, but when I become a pilot, I can make an exception
69 JoeCanuck : I know I'm getting greedy but more pics would be nice.
70 Post contains links SSTeve : The Seattle Times Sunday story: http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...eingoutsourcingxml.html?prmid=4939 ... makes it somewhat clear that it was mor
71 Post contains images mad99 : i'm sure you can find them on the internet ftv2 will have wings in the next few days boeing brought back a lot of outsourcing by buying out subs. bbd
72 Post contains links and images queb : on its wheels
73 KarelXWB : Looks pretty naked, still a lot of work to do. Thanks for sharing.
74 queb : pictures were taken last January 26
75 KarelXWB : I see. She would get her engines on January 28, can't wait to see some pictures of it.
76 Post contains images ferpe : They are making steady progress, let's hope it continues and that they can show the big guys how to run a project, would be sweet. All the best BB .
77 aviaponcho : Tks queb Big wheels indeed... For big engines.
78 rikkus67 : Queb.... Any more info on the engine install yet?
79 Post contains images davs5032 : +1 It should be completed now, if the above dates are correct, right? I'm anxious to see the the pictures!
80 Post contains images lightsaber : Without control surfaces, that is one fugly glider. This makes me wonder how much of the internal work, such as wiring, is complete? Any status updat
81 CRJ900 : How come there are no heavy weights where the engines normally are? On pics of other aircraft without engines there are often huge weights to keep the
82 JoeCanuck : Wow...3 1/2 weeks ago...a lot must have been bolted on since then. The trend of more good news and no bad news is encouraging. Let's get this puppy i
83 TSS : I'd assume that with little or no interior components installed (seats, overhead bins, water in various tanks, etc. ), there's a lot less weight to c
84 murf : There is a weight which can be seen hanging from what I would guess is the front jacking point Fwd of the Fwd cargo cutout...not as big as what's typ
85 davs5032 : Indeed. The CS-100 is 34.9m, slightly longer than an A319, while the -300 is 38m, slightly longer than the A320 (per Wiki). The C-series family is de
86 Post contains links sebring : Ilyushin confirms its order, and PW's geared turbofan has been certified by Transport Canada http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ier-cseries-planes
87 Post contains links and images queb : Photo taken on February 5
88 KarelXWB : Wow, nice and impressive.
89 Quantos : Very nice! Can't wait to see it fly (and hoping I can see it on the first flight!)
90 queb : Tranport Canada PW1500G data sheet https://www.box.com/s/76cq9bwbf22ikh1trjum
91 r2rho : Looking good! Engines & nacelles mounted, slats installed, flaps not yet. I wonder how it looks on the inside, how many systems installed, flight
92 queb : no slats installed yet
93 infiniti329 : Will the aircraft sit that high? or is it because the lack of components installed why it is sitting high..
94 queb : official rollout march 7th per Scott Hamilton on Twitter
95 KarelXWB : More about the production rate:
96 Pugman211 : yep, slats are not installed in that photo.
97 Quantos : I'm assuming that to make a presentation on march 7th, FTV1 has to look finished (at least the outside)? Also, if someone could explain a detail I not
98 YYZYYT : Fabulous - thank you queb!! I have a question... it could be me, or the angle/lens of the photo, but the GTF engine seems to be larger than usual, re
99 Post contains links queb : GTF engine is larger than other engines, that's why Boeing can't mounted a GTF engine on 737 MAX. Cseries GTF is larger than 737 Max Leap-X. (72" vs 6
100 YYZYYT : queb, First the pictures (correct me if I am wrong, but the picture in 87 that may an a.net first, be the first ever picture a GTF on a production ai
101 Post contains links queb : thank you very much but the picture was posted by BBD on his Ow.ly account this morning http://ow.ly/i/1yHOQ
102 Post contains links PW100 : Another vote of confidence coming up for the C-series, apparently: According to this, Lufthansa is ready to order another batch of 30 C-series, even b
103 Post contains links queb : It's a P&W product, TC made a mistake. Surely because testing and manufacturing (PW1500G only) is done by P&WC in Mirabel. http://www.pwc.ca/
104 YYCSpotter : So we know that the 1st flight of the CS100 is slated for june, but what about the CS300?
105 Post contains links ferpe : For the technically interested I put an analysis of the C-series and it's engines at Tech/Ops: PW1500G Analysis, The GTF For C-series (by ferpe Feb 23
106 Post contains links Paolo92 : Here is the official event scheduled by Bombardier for the "CSeries Program Update" on March 7, at 11am EST (3pm GMT). Bombardier CSeries Program Upda
107 davs5032 : The scheduled event is now less than 48 hours away...seems like a good time to inquire if anyone has any new updates or information? I assume new pict
108 CRJ900X : Also, I wonder if Bombardier will be able to secure any additional firm orders for the aircraft to coincide with the roll out.
109 bonusonus : Or if they will announce their launch customer...
110 ytz : I would have thought 30 airframes would be too many for OS. Then again, LX is replacing 20 RJs with 30 CS100. I think the CSeries is a great fit for
111 davs5032 : It will be interesting to see when this gets launched...presumably not until the -100 at least gets in the air, but you'd think offering of the -500
112 ytz : I would hope so. The thing that concerns me is their Chinese tie-up that limits co-operation to aircraft with 149 seats. I wonder how much this agree
113 F9animal : That is one sexy looking plane! I think this program will do even better than what the CRJ did! I cant wait to fly on this plane!
114 davs5032 : I don't necessarily think that the CS-500 is a "must" for the program to be a success. The amount of orders for the current versions, all secured pri
115 JoeCanuck : The only thing keeping a CS500 from being sold is a customer...and some real world flight data. BBd will offer one as soon as a customer orders a few.
116 ytz : @JoeCanuck Your statement would imply that Bombardier is courting potential CS500 clients. Makes me wonder why BBD didn't offer AK the CS500 with 180
117 JoeCanuck : It doesn't take courting on the part of BBD...all it takes is a customer who can extrapolate a CS500 from the stats of the CS100 and 300, and decide
118 sf260 : Honestly I don't see a need for BBD to launch the CS500 before CS300 first flight or CS100 EIS. It would mean another commitment and additional press
119 ytz : I don't think they need to hold off launching it because it might mean rushing engineers. That's what target dates are for. Set the date out further
120 ytz : BBD must have some incredible corporate security. Not a peep about the launch.
121 Post contains links queb : Bombardier confirms CS300 airframe can accommodate up to 160 seats. Extra capacity seating option will be available in-production and as a retrofit (r
122 Quantos : Media update at Mirabel should currently be in progress. Hopefully we will have some pictures soon!
123 Post contains links and images KarelXWB :
124 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Bombardier is speaking of "a first truly new cabin in 25 years".
125 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : More updates are comming in: - Wing load test completed last Saturday - 1500G engine: 20% fuel burn advantage and 15% reduced fuel burn - CS100 first
126 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : And there it is: [Edited 2013-03-07 08:03:12]
127 pvjin : That bird indeed looks beautiful, can't wait to see it flying.
128 Quantos : Awesome! Thanks for the pictures!
129 Post contains links and images Devilfish : Looking good... ... . http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=49792
130 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : More pictures: And some more updates: - Only "weeks left" to finish FTV 1, wing fairings are missing - Bombardier found that lithium ion battery techn
131 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : They finally turned off the ambiance lights. [Edited 2013-03-07 08:53:52]
132 davs5032 : Thanks for all of the pics Karel!
133 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : FTV 3: FTV 2 again: Info about FTV 5: [Edited 2013-03-07 10:12:15]
134 someone83 : Why did they "roll out" a half finished plane? Even the 787 looked more complete
135 Post contains images KarelXWB : That's a good question. FTV 1 is "weeks away" from completion, one would think they waited a bit longer. Until you take look at the inside
136 Post contains images EaglePower83 : What a great looking plane! Sexy engines on there too I might add
137 art : Seems a strange idea to me, too. Appearances can be deceptive, as they say.
138 Post contains links ac888yow : They didn't "roll out" anything. This was a program update for media, analysts, and investors. http://www.bombardier.com/en/coporat...ses/details?doc
139 YYZYYT : Thanks for the pictures! Very interesting, that they would roll it out with the wing fairing missing, and without a snazzy coat of while paint and "C
140 ytz : It's not an entirely fulfilling moment. I'm kinda disappointed at their progression. I say this as an investor and av fan. It looks me that there's re
141 rikkus67 : If I remember reading correctly, the 787 doors were actually temporary plywood... painted to look like the exterior was finished. Not a bad marketing
142 Post contains links KarelXWB : Full credit goes to the people who were present at the party: http://twitter.com/FG_STrim http://twitter.com/LeehamNews
143 ac888yow : There will probably be a "roll out" in the more traditional sense when FTV1 is fully assembled, painted, and ready for handover to the flight test cen
144 PW100 : Perhaps they wanted to show the world that this was in fact the real thing, and not some potemkin roll out, like . . . Good to see progress, and on m
145 JoeCanuck : I liked it. It shows BBD is close to completing a real plane, not a mockup...and they're not embarrassed to show it off. With 4 flight test vehicles i
146 ADent : I would rather see a "half-finished" plane than whatever the 787 was they rolled out.
147 ytz : One thing I find befuddling is their hard pitch on the 160 seat layout. Their whole pitch is that it has the same CASM as a 180 seat airplane. Surely,
148 queb : Easyjet ? everything in its own time
149 JoeCanuck : 180 seats only works if you can fill 180 seats. It only takes a few empty seats to raise CASM. 160 seats in the CS300 would handily beat any other ai
150 davs5032 : Realistically, I think they realize that it's not going to compete with a 180 seat layout A320 or B738 for customers that need that much capacity. BB
151 Post contains images lightsaber : I can only hope. Nothing wrong with more orders. If true, that would be the 'shot in the arm' the C-series needs. It would bring orders over 200 and
152 Post contains links and images queb : CS100 new specs datasheet: http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseri...series_download_high_en_7a1759.pdf Here's a comparison graph between june 2011 and m
153 Post contains links and images queb : CS300 new specs datasheet: http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseri...series_download_high_en_b654d1.pdf Here's a comparison graph between june 2011 and m
154 YTZ : Easyjet doesn't do 28" pitch. Easjet, Ryanair, Air Asia, etc. are all above 29". Sure. That's my point. Why bother with this? Even when it comes to a
155 YTZ : Bigger and heavier aircraft. And no serious impact on Take-off/Landing field length. That's impressive. But I wonder how the bigger and heavier aircr
156 PHX787 : Love it. Love every inch of it! Can't wait to be on board !!
157 planemaker : The 160-seat layout was rumoured for some time before Farnborough where it was first publicly announced that AirAsia was "interested" in the layout.
158 JoeCanuck : They favour the larger planes because the smaller of those models doesn't offer much in the way of savings over the larger. The CS300, on the other h
159 sf260 : How do empty seats raise CASM? They aren't removing these seats, are they? If anything I'd think they lower CASM very slightly, less traffic load, le
160 JoeCanuck : Ok...RASM.
161 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Although I couldn't watch the entire conference due to boarding a flight, everything I have seen suggests that it's safe to say the CS300 will be cap
162 Post contains links teahan : It should also be possible to put 6 abreast seating in the CSeries. Compare the dimensions with the Bae 146 / RJ family: Bae 146 / RJ family CSeries F
163 aviaponcho : Bravo BBD ! Quite impressive in fact In this stealthy stretch of the CS300 and the cabin length growth for the two version is quite an achievement ...
164 Post contains images PlymSpotter : That would take another inch of width away from each seat, making it just 16 inches wide, I don't see that being practical. It would also push the se
165 Post contains images CRJ900 : Bombardier has updated their seat map for the CS300 on their website, showing 150 seats @ 30 inch pitch, which means Easyjet can offer pretty much th
166 clydenairways : That's a nice looking machine.
167 Post contains images lightsaber : It just occurred to me FlyDubai could be the launch customer for the twin exit CS300... But the 160 CS300 CASM matches the 180 seat 738 CASM. Thus it
168 Post contains links queb : Swiss confirms interest as Bombardier launches 160-seat CS300 http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...er-launches-160-seat-cs300-383185/
169 aviaponcho : Thanks Queb I find it strange that the CS100 didn't get the 28in treatment ! it can go all the way to 130 PAX easily, or staying in the 125PAX region
170 YTZ : I remember. And it turns out, the entire thing was a foil to get Airbus to give them a good price. So clearly a CS300 with 160 seats wasn't better th
171 neutrino : Read the whole post again! Teahan opinionated the possibility (but not probability) of six abreast not to increase the total number of pax but to put
172 YTZ : Quit giving the airlines ideas! lol I can just see the gears turning in O'Leary's head right now....
173 lightsaber : For an airline already operating the type there woudl be less risk sticking with the known. So this isn't a clear win. Reducing the cost per flight.
174 neutrino : On the contrary, that's not that clear at all with the AirAsia example. For all we know, the CS300 could be marginally better than a A320NEO in those
175 Post contains images PlymSpotter : At MTOW and MLW. All the larger types which use LCY completely blow the available distances when you look at the MTOW/MLW performance figures, includ
176 YTZ : How is it not clear? They didn't order the aircraft. I'd say that's pretty clear. Even you agree that the advantage may not be there: And I agree. Th
177 Post contains images neutrino : I believe we can all agree that six abreast on the Cseries is a theoretical possibility but practical improbability...other than for the pygmy or hob
178 teahan : Airbus A330s/A340s in a 9 abreast configuration (Air Asia X, Air Transat, etc) have 16.25/.40 inch seats for flights often in excess of 10 hours. I d
179 neutrino : Of course its very clear that AirAsia didn't order the Cseries. What is not so clear is "a CS300 with 160 seats wasn't better than an A320NEO with 18
180 Post contains images PlymSpotter : It would have to be narrower still on the C Series. Account for 6 seats plus rests and you don't have much of a walkway left. Oh it's most likely pos
181 Post contains links JoeCanuck : On the other hand, it could be a great candidate for the Thompson seats. I'm quite surprised nobody has tried these out yet. http://www.thompsonaero.
182 lightsaber : Why has no one tried out the Thompson seats? It seems odd that after being offered for so long that zero airlines are flying them. Really the only ob
183 FriendlySkies : It looks like it would be really difficult to get to the aisle from the window seat, given the staggered edges of the middle and aisle seats relative
184 JoeCanuck : The seat bottoms fold up a bit so there is actually more room to move from seat to seat. With a fixed back, passengers don't get crushed by the idiot
185 queb : From ISTAT Americas 2013: "CSeries FTV-1 went together with less hours than the 1,700th CRJ." https://twitter.com/AvWeekGuy/status/311132662460997632
186 Quantos : Newbie curiosity, what is the fact that it took less time to assemble than the 1700th CRJ mean? Is it just this much easier to assemble?
187 Post contains images PlymSpotter : An easier and quicker assembly also implies a higher production rate. Now I'm not sure if this was completely expected, if not it could mean they can
188 YTZ : I find it strange that they didn't lengthen the CS100 at all.
189 lightsaber : A lower time is expected later on. However, production will be vendor limited. It does imply Bombardier will be able to use less staff to assemble th
190 Post contains images queb : Interesting slide from ATR ISTAT 2013 presentation comparing 72-600 fuel burn per seat with others aircrafts: Q400 +27% E175 G2 +31% E195 G2 +19% CS10
191 Post contains images queb : Probably because it is already in production
192 Paolo92 : Probably because it is already in production Actually it was lengthened by 10cm (4 inches), not that big deal although....
193 Viscount724 : Anything that folds up means more moving parts and more maintenance. CX installed "fixed shell" Y class seats on many of their aircraft a year or two
194 lightsaber : Interesting... it shows some ATR customers are starting to look at the CS100/CS300. Lightsaber
195 CRJ900 : Check reply 152 - the graph there show that the CS100 cabin length is now 1 metre (100cm) longer... should be enough for one more row. 22,7m vs 23,7m
196 Paolo92 : Yeah, my point was the total fuselage length (now 35m, previously 34.9m). The inside cabin may have been re-congigured to optimize the overall space
197 JoeCanuck : Right. The LH rep at the event the other day mentioned that customer input was involved in the changes and that contributed to the delay as BBD had t
198 CRJ900 : When SWISS announced their CS100 order, the press release said the aircraft would have 115 seats. Now LH is reporting it will have 125 seats (a link f
199 YTZ : Very curious about this config. 125 seats would yield a seat pitch of 30". Or something like 28-29" in the "economy" cabin and 32-33" in the business
200 douglasyxz : "Does LX actually use the middle seat on its Avros today in J?" Never seen anybody placed on middle seat, can't imagine LX going a different way than
201 CRJ900 : It's all about packing them in to reduce the cost per seat these days. Slimline seats are the biggest thing since sliced bread in the aviation indust
202 Post contains images r2rho : Completely different situation. The reengine of those models has shifted the optimum aircraft size to the right of the family. Just like the 737 Clas
203 Post contains images pnwtraveler : And conspiracy theorists on Anet seeing 787 situations everywhere . Goes to show which of the consultants really know what they are talking about som
204 Post contains links and images teahan : With a modern slimline seat with very narrow armrests (a totally different story to what was installed in 1980s BAEs), I am not sure those 14cm are e
205 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Funny how Boeing can play with charts:
206 JoeCanuck : I love a good power point, sales spat. If launched.......hahahahahahahha.
207 Post contains links Paolo92 : Interesting video by CNN, shows the inside of the Mirabel facility, talking about the current status of the program: Bombardier challenges its rivals
208 Post contains links Paolo92 : Royal Jet considers options as it looks to replace six-strong BBJ fleet by 2016 While Bombardier is not officially offering a ''BBD-BJ'' based on the
209 lightsaber : The only issue is getting enough customers lined up to start. I would think a mere 30 or so orders would do it. Perhaps less. Lightsaber
210 kaneporta1 : Funny how current sales numbers don't really reflect these charts... It's good to see Bombardier making good progress with the CSeries. It's a hell o
211 JoeCanuck : I don't even think they need more than one. Anybody can probably order as little as a single green airframe and fix it up any way they want.
212 Paolo92 : That's exactly my thought...
213 Devilfish : Those wanting airliner-sized cabins and do not need very long ranges are primary candidates. Nevertheless, it might serve BBD well if they'd take a l
214 lightsaber : I think they'll have to due to all of the competition. There might be some truly custom planes, but I think the bulk will be standardized. However, I
215 pnwtraveler : Once power on is achieved I think we will start to see more information start to leak out. Mirabel is a fairly remote location compared to Dorval and
216 Post contains links KarelXWB : Here is a very nice, 3-pages article about the CSeries: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/AW_03_18_2013_p30-558759.xml
217 rikkus67 : I think going forward, we will see airlines be a bit more conservative with initial orders for new types, especially when it comes to new technologies
218 ytz : I guess I'm not the only one saying that the family isn't complete.
219 Post contains links thenoflyzone : Antonov 124 flew in yesterday night from Belfast to Mirabel with most likely the wings for FTV2. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VDA2174 Thenoflyzo
220 JValjean : FTV2 already has wings attached.
221 thenoflyzone : FTV 3 then...or an aircraft fuselage for an all new frame.[Edited 2013-03-21 07:44:53]
222 Post contains links queb : Bombardier CSeries Skips Paris as CEO Favors Flight Tests http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...is-as-ceo-favors-flight-tests.html
223 Paolo92 : I guess it is the wings for FTV3, or, if those are already in Mirabel, FTV4 ones, since those are built in Belfast. Makes sense to me, better keep it
224 queb : Center fuselage is also finalized in Belfast for the first frames The center fuselage is made in China by Shenyang Aircraft. The three sections of th
225 Post contains links Paolo92 : Didn't know it was finalized there, thanks for the info! News on Flightglobal. Stephen Trimble reports that the cooperation between Bombardier and Co
226 EaglePower83 : Maybe I don't know skeet about supply chain, but I can't wrap my head around how it can be cost effective to make body sections in China, ship them to
227 lightsaber : Translation: Bombardier doesn't want to give away IP without compensation to the C919 and probably wants more improvements from COMAC for the C-serie
228 queb : Shenyang Aircraft is a risk sharing partner, they probably take a good part of additional costs for production in Northern Ireland.
229 challengerdan : Have they received the electrical harnesses for FTV1? Apparently modifications have put the supplier way behind schedule (could be related to the leng
230 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : As per Flightglobal (interesting article by the way - free account mandatory for full text): In this article FG also suggests three critical months,
231 voodoo : Or Avianca...
232 Post contains images PlymSpotter : To be honest there's a couple of dozen airlines which are referred to as such. Just because KLM are the oldest, I don't think it means they are the cu
233 Post contains links planemaker : The N. Ireland fuse work is a "temporary work around" until Shenyang gets its "act together". This was discussed at length in an earlier CSeries thre
234 AngMoh : All these articles are from last year and even then it was stated that corrective action started quite a bit earlier or even sometime in 2011. Somewh
235 planemaker : Indeed. Mike Arcamone, president of Bombardier Commercial Aircraft, said that “component quality is excellent, and they are meeting their delivery
236 lightsaber : Interesting... If Royal Jet is able to arrange outfitting... Corporate jets would be a nice addition to C-series sales. I would expect a high MTOW CS
237 Post contains links planemaker : As you say, "if this is correct". New article here...
238 Post contains links KarelXWB : Bombardier completes power-on milestone for CSeries. http://twitter.com/Bombardier_Aero/status/316250284974284800 Document here: http://ow.ly/d/18GY
239 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : And the press release can be found here: http://www.bombardier.com/wps/portal...edia-centre?docID=0901260d802a87d2
240 Post contains images lightsaber : And completed wing static testing! This is good news. The sooner testing can be performed on a moving airframe, the better. 1. After poweron, there i
241 timboflier215 : Thanks lightsaber! Assuming no issues and all goes to plan, how long are we looking to complete steps 1 through 6?
242 YXD172 : In the press release they mention that they just completed the 'down-bending' wing static test (and the up-bending one earlier this month) - are eithe
243 corey07850 : Yes this is the "wing breakng test"
244 Post contains images lightsaber : That depends on the checklist and state of the aircraft. I'm not trying to be punchy... I've seen step 1 take less than a week or six months. That is
245 queb : no need to break the wing. 115% wing load test required for flight test and 150% for EIS.
246 Post contains links planemaker : Article by Flight Blogger on the CSeries production sequence...
247 connies4ever : BBD reporting initial power on yesterday (March 25th)....
248 Post contains links KarelXWB : Press release here: http://www.bombardier.com/en/corpora...ses/details?docID=0901260d802a87d2
249 lightsaber : And now they can be done step by step. I skipped two steps (from memory) in my enthusiasm. 0A: Subsystem power on. 0B: Avionics on 0C: Avionics/NAV s
250 Aircellist : You are totally forgiven.
251 davs5032 : When do you expect they'll paint the thing? Presumably before ground testing?
252 Post contains links planemaker : Just announced (though the government decree was adopted on March 7th) in various news sources that Investissement Québec is providing $1 billion U.S
253 Post contains images lightsaber : Paint is optional. That happens in a week I'm given comp time. Sigh... I miss flight test. Oh, I like seeing my children more, but a desk job is not
254 czbbflier : To avoid the export subsidy debate, let's just say, Air Canada.
255 BlueLight : Your point is?????
256 Bravo1Six : There shouldn't be any debate given the Aircraft Sector Understanding amongst the governments of all the major OEMs.
257 lightsaber : Which allows 'preferred financing' of RJs. So the debate is, what is an RJ. Plenty call the C-series RJs... So why wouldn't Bombardier take advantage
258 Bravo1Six : The original ASU from 2007 drew a distinction between large aircraft and RJs. The ASU currently in effect (since early 2011) does not.
259 Skywatcher : My understanding is that the funds haven't been allocated yet. This financing is complementary to/bolstering Federal EDC financing which is similar to
260 queb : Per Jon Ostrower "Breaking: Toronto-based Porter Airlines is set to buy up to 30 Bombardier CSeries. Dec. order attributed earlier to an "Americas" cu
261 JoeCanuck : Wow...that came from right out of nowhere. Maybe Jon is having a bit of a late April fool's?
262 YTZ : Why? Can't run from the Island. And they'd get killed at Pearson by AC and WS.
263 queb : There were possibly a condition that Porter can use jets to Toronto Island before finalizing the agreement (derogation). The CS100 noise footprint is
264 YTZ : 1) As per my understanding the tripartite agreement specifically prohibits "jets" (defined as non-prop aircraft). 2) It's not the noise conditions I'
265 9252fly : I'm having a difficult time believing that Porter is a customer for the CSeries. Giving the sources the benefit of a doubt,I cannot imagine them usin
266 queb : Take-off distance of the Cseries at MTOW is 1460 m but Porter does not need the 3000 nm range of the CS100, 1500-2000 nm is more than enough. But may
267 Polot : 30 seems like a lot for Porter, they would be more than doubling their current fleet size unless they are planning on getting rid of some of their Q40
268 queb : it's 12 + 18 options
269 Post contains links yxu737 : http://business.financialpost.com/20...ounce-order-for-bombardier-planes/ They are running with the story too and its closer to home.
270 TANGOWHISKY : Porter is a niche operator and the CS100 can do them right if they can operate out of YTZ. The extremely low noise foot print can be proven that no-je
271 Post contains links jetblueguy22 : This thread has gotten pretty long and a new thread was created to make sifting through all the news easier. It can be found here Bombardier CSeries U
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