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AC Ending Service To PVD!  
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3192 posts, RR: 5
Posted (1 year 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 8033 times:
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According to wikipedia, Air Canada's flights from YYZ to PVD are ending on March 15th. I wasn't aware that these flights weren't doing well. Nevertheless, it is a blow to PVD as this is their only remaining international service. I'll also miss seeing the little Beechcrafts.  


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

Nooooo. Now I have to make the trek up to BOS if I want to take advantage of AC's awesome Z fares to DEL


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 7932 times:

Huh. PVD isn't in the schedule for most of March and April, but returns in May.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

That's a shame the flight is ending. Air Ontario started the route back in the late '90's with a Dash 8.

User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 7791 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Thread starter):

Apparently March 1st quoting this article:

http://pbn.com/Air-Canada-suspends-service-from-TF-Green,85790

I had no idea AC used Beech 1900s to the US. That thing is so small. Anyway that means no international services out of Rhode Island anymore.


User currently offlineglobetrotter29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 7734 times:

Very disheartening news for PVD. Two B1900s a day might not seem like a huge loss, but losing your sole international destination is a devastating blow to an economically ailing area that could certainly use some good news for a change.

Hopefully we can see this route return in the future, but with Boston so close by, and airliners abandoning small to midsize markets to concentrate on the major airports it seems like wishful things.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9040 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

http://news.providencejournal.com/br...lat-in-december-down-for-2012.html


According to the Providence Journal.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 7311 times:

It is just a Beechcraft flight, B6 just entered the market and maybe a ULCC like NK or G4 could set up shop at PVD.


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3192 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 7273 times:
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Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 7):

The point isn't that its a Beechcraft flight, it's that this is PVD's ONLY remaining International flight.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Would you rather have NK or G4 with an Airbus 320 or MD-80 to Florida or the Caribbean

-or-

Air Georgian (Air Canada Express) B1900 to YYZ.

If you'd ask any of the airport vendors, they'd rather have the LCCs, as they are bringing a lot more passengers/parking revenues/concessions/fuel sales to PVD.

PVD will still be an international airport - a quick glance at FlightAware's arrival and departures out of there show numerous corporate or 135 flights to international places.


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

Perhaps the reason why the flight isn't performing well is AC's poor choice of equipment on the route? That's a long flight on a Beech 1900, especially given the fact it has no lavatory. With more promotion, I'm sure they could make this flight much more attractive with a Dash-8 or even a CRJ.

User currently offlinelostsound From Canada, joined May 2012, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

Maybe Porter will swoop in to take that slot? Porter knows how to advertise destinations. They have a fleet of Q400s which are much more comfortable then the Beechcrafts, expecially with Porter's 34" seat pitch. Maybe we could see YTZ - PVD

[Edited 2013-01-23 06:53:34]


"Our hands are full, our lives are not"
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4686 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6639 times:

While its not good to lose an airline, 2 things here...

1) We're down an average of less than 30 daily seats.. jetblue just added 450

2) Most people who were paying a premium and flying on the B1900 would probably still use PVD as they were clearly not enticed by cheaper fares and 10x the frequency at BOS.

If Air Canada wanted it to work, they could have (DH8s would have helped) but its clearly not enough of a concern to them for the effort.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6613 times:

Guys, these AC flights on Air Georigian have horrible horrible reliability. Running sometimes hours late. Im not surprised.

PVD seems weird anyway. Not much local market and no one connects to YOW or YUL via YYZ. How much YYC or YVR traffic is there from PVD?


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6594 times:

Quoting lostsound (Reply 11):
Maybe Porter will swoop in to take that slot? Porter knows how to advertise destinations. They have a fleet of Q400s which are much more comfortable then the Beechcrafts, expecially with Porter's 34" seat pitch. Maybe we could see YTZ - PVD

Q400s would likely be too much capacity. Remember that AC is running 2x daily 18 seat B1900Ds (according to one of the articles- wikipedia says they seat 17), so 36 seats a day. Porter's Q400s have 70 seats- almost a 100% increase in the number of seats. I don't see them entering this market with BOS so close.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7505 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6577 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 3):
That's a shame the flight is ending. Air Ontario started the route back in the late '90's with a Dash 8.

Same thing in ROC. I often wonder how our YYZ flight does. It would be nice to see some AC CRJ's,though.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4686 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6548 times:

Passenger #s were decent back in the day when they ran 3x DH8... better aircraft better frequency... 1.5x weekly B1900s isn't going to cut it. But like I said...90% of those people toughing it out under those conditions will still use PVD as for most people BOS is not a substitute for PVD, they function as independent markets.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6330 times:

The schedule also didn't allow for a day trip from PVD to YYZ and barely a half-day trip in the other direction.

There are several area companies with their Canadian HQ or subsidiary in or around Toronto that would have supported the flights more often but this route had so many anti-demand factors (long flight on small aircraft, often late or cancelled, poorly timed local market schedule, cost-prohibitive fares, massive service inbalance with Boston) that it was more attractive to simply towncar their execs to Boston and choose between up to 4 differant carriers (AC, PD, AA-gone now, DL) in the past year or so.

Regardless of all that, AC will be missed.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3192 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6274 times:
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Quoting lostsound (Reply 11):
Quoting Polot (Reply 14):

What if the did it like 3-4x a week life they do at MYR and PWM? There is a bit of a local market, so I'd say it could work.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

I would think this route would peak in the summer for seasonal traffic. Surprised its cancelled just prior to summer.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11665 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 9):
Would you rather have NK or G4 with an Airbus 320 or MD-80 to Florida or the Caribbean

-or-

Air Georgian (Air Canada Express) B1900 to YYZ.

If you'd ask any of the airport vendors, they'd rather have the LCCs, as they are bringing a lot more passengers/parking revenues/concessions/fuel sales to PVD.

But if you ask the local chamber and businesses I would expect a good deal to say the YYZ link, preferably on something a little bigger than a 1900. Accessibility to a major hub like Toronto and the onward connections it offers will have been important to the local economy, even with BOS an hour away. Holiday flights to the Caribbean are a net exporter of wealth, the link to YYZ will almost certainly have been an importer.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineglobetrotter29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

This does not bode well for ZX flights to BDL, RIC, PWM & ALB.

[Edited 2013-01-23 13:39:18]

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4686 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 21):

This does not bode well for ZX flights to BDL, RIC, PWM & ALB

My guess is PVD was affected due to the misconception that BOS is a viable alternative. The fact of the matter is, if you are choosing to fly 2 hrs on a B1900 at 1/20th the frequency then 90% of those people will still use PVD but just fly someone else instead.

[Edited 2013-01-23 14:18:55]


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 13):
Not much local market and no one connects to YUL via YYC or YVR traffic is there from PVD?
Toronto is AC's global hub and passengers can connect to Europe, Asia, South America and the rest of AC's international network, not just Canada.

Quoting John (Reply 10):
That's a long flight on a Beech 1900, especially given the fact it has no lavatory.

Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Beechcraft_1900D.pdf

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:19:29]

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:44:00]

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:47:05]

User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 8):
it's that this is PVD's ONLY remaining International flight.

What other international routes did they have? I am from Connecticut and used to fly out of PVD all the time.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 9):

Would you rather have NK or G4 with an Airbus 320 or MD-80 to Florida or the Caribbean

-or-

Air Georgian (Air Canada Express) B1900 to NK and G4 would bring in people, I am really not a fan of the the business model but if I was an airport manager I would love to have these carriers because that is more bodies coming into the airport.

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:46:21]


[Edited 2013-01-23 15:46:47]

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:49:41]


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently onlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Bee...D.pdf

I think one of the main issues with the Beech is storage. Particularly if those AC flights have connections to India/Europe/Asia, passengers would tend to check in quite a lot of luggage... and there is no capacity... specially since the Beech has not even overhead compartments.

[Edited 2013-01-23 15:44:59]

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3192 posts, RR: 5
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4071 times:
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Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 24):

S4 used to do PDL seasonally.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineiadbudd From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

Porter can't fly to PVD since YTZ does not pre-clear US pax like YYZ does. That is one of the reasons Porter is flying to IAD instead of DCA.

User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

Porter can fly to PVD since it has a FIS and is a port of entry (not CBP user fee) airport. Actually, AC flights arrived at the gate right next to the international gate at PVD. The FIS is integrated right into the main terminal building.

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3192 posts, RR: 5
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2664 times:
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Quoting pvd757 (Reply 28):
Porter can fly to PVD since it has a FIS and is a port of entry (not CBP user fee) airport. Actually, AC flights arrived at the gate right next to the international gate at PVD. The FIS is integrated right into the main terminal building.

That's what I had thought as well. After all, were the S4 flight pre-cleared in PDL?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Looks like YYZ-PWM flights are no longer bookable on the AC website.

User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

You can add YYZ-PWM (Portland ME) to the list. That route is ending effective 01Mar.

User currently offlinemultimark From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Quoting lostsound (Reply 11):
Maybe Porter will swoop in to take that slot? Porter knows how to advertise destinations. They have a fleet of Q400s which are much more comfortable then the Beechcrafts, expecially with Porter's 34" seat pitch. Maybe we could see YTZ - PVD

Unfortunately one thing Porter doesn't know how to do is make money.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Bee...D.pdf

Yikes, does that mean there is such a thing as an "unenclosed" lavatory?   


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

Quoting multimark (Reply 32):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23):
Not correct. Air Georgian's Beech 1900Ds do have an enclosed lavatory. It's optional. Several operators have it.
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/images/Bee...D.pdf

Yikes, does that mean there is such a thing as an "unenclosed" lavatory?

I think that reference is to distinguish between curtains and other ad hoc separations sometimes used for lavatories on smaller aircraft.


User currently offlinesirnoble From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

I noticed the same thing on the PWM Wikipedia page

User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
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Never even knew this service even existed.

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