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DL MKE Terminal Move On 2/22?  
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4005 times:

Flyer Talk Forum has said that Delta may make the move to Terminal D in MKE on 2/22. Can anyone confirm?

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

It's confirmed that Delta at MKE is moving to D. From what I heard the original proposed timeline of January has been delayed. Perhaps 2/22 is the day, though I've heard no confirmation of that.

Frontier still controls and pays rent on all of D except D52/D56, the two gates Southwest used and recently swapped with USAirways. The leases run into 2015 if I recall correctly. Delta is taking six gates on D, and moving their club to the larger, former Best Care Club. Fronter is taking six gates on E. They won't use them -- they'll still operate from other remaining gates on D, but six of the gates they pay for but never use are going to be on E.

MKE wants to mothball E as it is the smallest and has the least amenities. After Delta moves, there are still two ex-CO gates that United uses. UA still runs a split operation, with some ex-CO flights consolidated on C with classic UA flights, but some still using E62. It may take the cooperation of Frontier, who controls the rest of D, to find enough adjacent gates for United to consoldate.

Regardless of the timeframe for UA to vacate E, Delta is slated to move in upcoming weeks. Feb 22 might well be the current target date, but I've not heard confirmation.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 1):
It may take the cooperation of Frontier, who controls the rest of D, to find enough adjacent gates for United to consoldate.

The funny thing is that putting both US and UA on D would be a blast from what, 2003, when US was just across the hall from where they are now (D51 and 53, IIRC) and had some ERJ flights to CLT operated by YX, of all carriers, and UA had a bunch of gates on the south side of the spine of D where the ZW 146s parked.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

I have seen UA flights to Houston IAH, Cleveland, and Newark out of E. Why have they not merged with the rest of UA operations? Not enough room?

I know DL has wanted to move to D for quite some time -- esp for the larger club. MKE SC was getting tight at peace times. I will be glad to see what it looks like!

Back when, I think TWA also used E....the first two gates on the right as you come in I think (E 69, E 68?).

Why would Frontier want gates they don't use? They are drawing down in MKE. Would the airport not let them drop the gates and so save everyone the money?

Aside from DL, there is not much of note in E. Despite the recent bathroom plubng that was done a few years ago.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlinemikefrommke From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 351 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 3):
Why would Frontier want gates they don't use? They are drawing down in MKE. Would the airport not let them drop the gates and so save everyone the money?

They don't want them, but a contract is a contract. You can't just stop paying for them.


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
The funny thing is that putting both US and UA on D would be a blast from what, 2003, when US was just across the hall from where they are now (D51 and 53, IIRC) and had some ERJ flights to CLT operated by YX, of all carriers, and UA had a bunch of gates on the south side of the spine of D where the ZW 146s parked.

Lots of deja vu as airlines have move quite a bit.

UA would move back to D, where it always was until moving to C a few years ago.
US is back on D where it had been from the start (when they first came they used UA gates)
DL will be back on D where Northwest always was until 1986 or so.

Quoting davescj (Reply 3):
Back when, I think TWA also used E....the first two gates on the right as you come in I think (E 69, E 68?).

Yup, they were. For the small handful of people here who might be intersted in such trivia:


Concourse E (used to be called B) hosted these schedule airline brands at various times:
North Central
Republic
Midwest Express
Northwest (since acquiring RC)
Delta (since acquiring NW)
Continental
United (since acquiring CO)
Frontier (the old one)
TWA
American
Simmons
AirTran
Midway
Sun Country
Alliance
American Tran Air

Concourse D (used to be called A) hosted these schedule airline brands at various times:
America West
United (including Captial if you go way back)
Northwest Orient
Midwest Express/Midwest/Skyway
Frontier
Midway Connection (nicknamed Puppy Chow...anyone remember?)
USAirways
Southwest
Enterprise
Apex
Allied
Pro Air
Vanguard
Air Wisconsin
Air Canada
Great Lakes
AirVantage

Concourse C hosted these schedule airline brands at various times:
Southwest
Air Canada
United
USAirways
AirTran
Delta
American
America West
Continental
Midwest Express
Midstate
Mississippi Valley
Ozark
TWA
Eastern
Hughes Airwest
Braniff (I and II)
Florida Express
Western
Sunworld
ATA Connection
Lakeland
Comair
Texas International
Capitol Airlines / Air LA (the metroliner commuter to St Paul Downtown Airport)

I'm not sure where Southern operated from before they merged into NC. And there was also a commuter gate between C and A that served several alrlines back before 1980 or so as well, which probably served a mix of largely-forgotten carriers over the years.

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 4):

Quoting davescj (Reply 3):
Why would Frontier want gates they don't use? They are drawing down in MKE. Would the airport not let them drop the gates and so save everyone the money?

They don't want them, but a contract is a contract. You can't just stop paying for them.

That's exactly right -- Frontier is still paying (which I'm sure Milwaukee county is happy about) and I'm guessing they are not in the market to do any favors for United unless someone sweetens the pot for them. Obviously MKE County would like to mothball E once DL leaves -- the handful of UA* flights operated there tends to be perhaps 3-5 per day, as some of the legacy CO* flights operate from United gates on C. But Frontier controls the gates on D other than the pair US got from Soutwhest, and the six they are swapping to Frontier.


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

I find it interesting that one website (Ifly with link below) does show DL as being in D with a SC.

And if it is on the net, it must be true!!

MKE-Concourse-D" target="_blank">http://www.ifly.com/general-mitchell...ernational-airport/MKE-Concourse-D

knope2001, quick question:

Did Funjet (the charter airline part of the leisure company) not also operate out of E at one time?

I know currently they are serviced by Air Tran in MKE, but I thought they were in E at one time. Or was it AppleJet vacations?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 6):
Did Funjet (the charter airline part of the leisure company) not also operate out of E at one time?

IIRC, FL handled Funjet vacation charters in E in the 2006-2007 time period. I remember seeing the checkin counters upstairs near the C security checkpoint. I can't tell you who operated the charters.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 6):
Did Funjet (the charter airline part of the leisure company) not also operate out of E at one time?

I know currently they are serviced by Air Tran in MKE, but I thought they were in E at one time. Or was it AppleJet vacations?
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
IIRC, FL handled Funjet vacation charters in E in the 2006-2007 time period. I remember seeing the checkin counters upstairs near the C security checkpoint. I can't tell you who operated the charters.


Funjet's and Apple's flights used to be operated Ryan International. Both of them started out in C, and then later Funjet moved to FL's original gates in E.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2598 times:

Yup -- I agree on Funjet operating from E. I believe both Funjet and Apple operated out of D in previous years, too...like perhaps back in the 90's for a season or two, from YX gates.

User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 9):
Yup -- I agree on Funjet operating from E. I believe both Funjet and Apple operated out of D in previous years, too...like perhaps back in the 90's for a season or two, from YX gates.


You're right, though I don't think it was even that long ago. I've been on so many of these Apple/Funjet flights its getting hard to keep track of them all, but now I remember my first time going down to CUN it was on one of those Airbus they were leasing from Aero Lloyd at the time, and we left from concourse D. I think they were still in D for one more winter after that but by that time they had switched over to using Futura's 737s.

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Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 986 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 5):
I'm not sure where Southern operated from before they merged into NC. And there was also a commuter gate between C and A that served several alrlines back before 1980 or so as well, which probably served a mix of largely-forgotten carriers over the years.

Southern began there MKE op's on the C Concourse before merging with North Central to from Republic Airlines.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 986 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

I also had read a Milwaukee Journal article IIRC in November 2012, that talked about MKE's hopes to close and possibly take down the E Concourse and possible replace it with a more modern concourse, however there are no firm plans to do so at this time. As to why the reason why F9 will take over the leases of DL's 'E' Concourse 6 gates is because MKE's airports management will not release F9 from there lease obligation. Just MHO here, but I think it's because of the way F9's management failed to do what they said they would do here in MKE and then cut and run tail out of town. I'm not going to get into a conversation on that subject, I just stating my opinion.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 10):
You're right, though I don't think it was even that long ago

Might well be -- it's hard to keep track!

=YXwatcherMKE,reply=12]As to why the reason why F9 will take over the leases of DL's 'E' Concourse 6 gates is because MKE's airports management will not release F9 from there lease obligation. Just MHO here, but I think it's because of the way F9's management failed to do what they said they would do here in MKE [/quote]

Actually I don't think there's any particular judgment or evaluation to it. Airports generally don't simply let airlines out of their lease obligations at will. Sometimes when airlines go through chapter 11, airport lease agreements are among the things airlines seek to alter or break. Although I'm sure Frontier would rather not be paying for all that vacant gate space, from what I've heard they are continuing to pay without dispute. If I had to guess, a combination of these factors is in place:

--The lease, renewed with YX/F9 was struggling, may have had some comparably favorable terms
--They may believe that they will end up paying more to fight the lease than just paying it to term
--The plan to shuffle airlines at MKE may offer Frontier a light at the end of the tunnel sooner than the lease expiration date.

I really don't see the need for E in the near future at MKE, even if existing airlines expand. With American staying on C, that still leaves 13 gates for Southwest, which could support huge expansion if that were to happen. On D, jetways are planned for D54 and D55, meaning 20 jetway gates. When DL / UA / AC / US / F9 together only will use 13 or 14 of those gates, so there's plenty of room should somebody want more gates or should new airlines come. There's just nearly zero chance that someone new is going to come in and need more than a couple of gates at most.

Although the pullback of Frontier has made the surplus gate situation worse here, many airports across the country are awash in gates because of mergers and other industry changes. Every airline acquisition means fewer gates are needed because gates are used more efficiently. And when acquisitions mean some hubs are become redundent...like MEM and CVG...many spoke airports have see fewer flights with bigger average planes, meaning even less gate demand.

In a strange way, the Frontier and AirTran/Southwest shakeup in MKE is helping them consolidate into two better-used concourses. At some other airports the occupied gates are very spotty and they would like to consolidate, but without a big shakeup like MKE has, it's harder to do. Airports with poorly consolidated operations spend a lot of money heating / cooling / maintaining / cleaning / staffing little-used spaces, and they have a much harder time attracting and supporting the type of vendors travelers want. It will be odd, and a little sad, to see E walled off. But it will be a much better situation than leaving the concourses open but see more vendors board up.

On a side note, anybody think of anything I missed or am mistaken on from that list of airlines by concourse (beyond a few typos?)

I feel like I'm missing some really obvious DUH examples, but can't come up with any. I had fun putting the list together and would like it to be complete


User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Don't forget Skybus on E I think E-61?

I agree about E I spent countless hours eating frozen strawberry yogurt and watching NC and RC Convairs come and go. That is where the love of airplanes started.



The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 13):
On D, jetways are planned for D54 and D55, meaning 20 jetway gates.


So if there's already a surplus of gates, why are they installing even more jet bridges?



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 986 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 13):
On a side note, anybody think of anything I missed or am mistaken on from that list of airlines by concourse (beyond a few typos?)

I feel like I'm missing some really obvious DUH examples, but can't come up with any. I had fun putting the list together and would like it to be complete

I think you got them all. When was it that Skybus came to MKE? I can't remember them ever being at MKE, but I could be wrong.



I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 14):
Don't forget Skybus on E I think E-61?

Dang! How quickly I forget...I was just looking something up about them at MKE in December. They were on E for the couple of months they were here.

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 15):
So if there's already a surplus of gates, why are they installing even more jet bridges?

What they are doing is converting D54/D55, which were ground ground-boarding gates used by Skyway, to be conventional upper level gates like the adjacent ones. The escalaters will be removed and the hole in the floor where they descended will be closed. A request for bids for this work went out in fall from the county.

Why are they doing this when there are surplus gates already? I can propose a few possible reasons:

--They know that there's almost no chance an airline would come and want ground boarding, and if it would happen the whole "20's" side is available. So there's no point in keeping them.

--Airlines want their gates clustered, and having D54 / D55 as ground boarding gates essentially is like two missing teeth in a smile. The south hammerhead has 6 gates, and US has two of them. Two of the four remaining gates are those ground boarding ones. To make the open gates on the south hammerhead appealing and useful, having all four with jetways makes sense.

--It may be that there's money do this now, and may not be at some later point. That money may be coming from projected savings by mothballing E. Or perhaps they budgeted for less revenue from Frontier but they are still paying.

Three jetway gates on the 30s side...34/36/38...are fixed jetways which can't handle RJ's. (D30 is a new jetway which can.) It would cost some money to fit those gates for someone like United with RJ's. So I'm guessing United wants the rest of the south hammerhead (D51, 53, 54, 55).


User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Wonder if anyone will take any of the D30 gates? While E is my old stomping ground there really is no need for it anymore. It would be weird seeing a two concourse MKE. A side note the last three 30 gates are off the E concourse when it was still B. I think they came over when MWE and Northwest were switching terminals in the 80's.

Crazy they build the very nice Skyway ground gates with nice waiting areas to only fill that back in to make it most likely United's ops again. I guess history does repeat itself.



The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1980 times:
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Quoting knope2001 (Reply 17):

--Airlines want their gates clustered, and having D54 / D55 as ground boarding gates essentially is like two missing teeth in a smile. The south hammerhead has 6 gates, and US has two of them. Two of the four remaining gates are those ground boarding ones. To make the open gates on the south hammerhead appealing and useful, having all four with jetways makes sense.

It's to prepare the south hammerhead for the AA/US merger   

On another note, if MKE does eventually to scrap E, would it make more sense to build a true connecting terminal into the international terminal from C or for MKE to scrap the international terminal entirely and build a new international ready terminal in the E space?

[Edited 2013-01-26 14:57:35]

User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1852 times:

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 18):
Wonder if anyone will take any of the D30 gates?

My guess is those are not as desirabe because three of them can't handle RJ's unless the jetways are replaced (interesting that they came from the old B gates!) and because there's little back office space nearby.

Quoting HermansCVR580 (Reply 18):
Crazy they build the very nice Skyway ground gates with nice waiting areas to only fill that back in to make it most likely United's ops again. I guess history does repeat itself.

I'm guessing UA will be on the hammerhead someplace and use office below there. I have not heard anything about modifying the empty ground boarding gates D27 / 28 / 29.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 19):
On another note, if MKE does eventually to scrap E, would it make more sense to build a true connecting terminal into the international terminal from C or for MKE to scrap the international terminal entirely and build a new international ready terminal in the E space?

I think this would only make sense if the existing international arrivals building is either too small and/or so obsolete that a lot of money needs to be sunk into it. It's somewhat inconvenient to have international arrivals in that separate building, but the few scheudled international flights which serve MKE mostly serve local traffic, not connections.


User currently offlineHermansCVR580 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Heck they could tear down the circle part of E and modify the stem part and make that a true IAB and have everything on site. Who knows maybe that could draw some new year round service to somewhere. I'd love to see AeroMexico or Volaris come to MKE. I saw a drawing awhile back that had them redoing E so it would match how C is now. With the down turn in traffic I don't see how that would be feasible.


The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1524 times:

Hey all,

I was in the DL SC last night (2/1). FWIW, the SC employee said that permits have not been issued yet for the construction that is necessary in D before the great move....so 2/22 might be a bit unrealistic..... 

That said - the new SC (which is where the Midwest Express Best Care Club was) is supposed to be about 2x the size of the current SC and once the renovation is done, the new SC will have a bartender (or so rumor goes).

Among other things that have to be built (I was told) was a large commercial cooler.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

I've heard that a fair amount of work has been completed or is underway, but there are multiple pieces. Possible things include:

--Gate holding areas / podiums / branding / signage
--Telecommunications
--Club
--Backroom/under councourse office space
--External ramp / jetway equipment

Not certain that every one of thses is significant in this case -- for example, I believe the six gates Delta is getting are D44-D49, and that is six positions served by five jetways. If they need a 6th jetway installed before they move, that's another pieced which must happen first. If they are good with 5 jetways , that parts is good to go.

Feb 22 is three weeks away, and a lot can happen in three weeks But perhaps not enough to be ready...?


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