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UAL Reports Q4 2012 Loss  
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11568 times:
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UAL reported a Q4 2012 net loss today of $190m excluding special charges; GAAP Net Loss of $620m including special charges...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...full-fourth-quarter-123000541.html

Full year profit of $589m excluding specials, full year GAAP Net Loss of $720m including special charges.

Q4 2012:

Total revenues: $8.702 billion (down 2.5%)
Operating Loss: $465m ( -5.3% margin)
Operating Loss without specials: $26m ( -0.3% margin)
Net Loss: $620m ( -7.1% margin)
Net Loss excluding specials: $190m ( -2.2% margin)

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11564 times:

While it is probably to be expected as the merger integration continues, I would have thought that we would start to see more of the benefits of the merger already


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11316 times:
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This is a continuation of the merger hangover. SuperStorm Sandy didn't help either. I think Jeff is running out of excuses for UA's under performance. They now have contracts in place with their work force which removes the last excuse he has to get the network optimized and performing in line with its competitors.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5423 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11147 times:

What's so special about special items, when they recur quarter after quarter after quarter? Let's just call them "expenses", which is what they are. The concept of "operating profit" has become almost meaningless when it is so regularly dwarfed by the size of the specials.

(Pardon the accounting rant. IMO, the current treatment of special items and intangibles serves only to obscure the real financial condition of companies.)

That said, wasn't the retro pay to the pilots the real cause of the operating loss?



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11112 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
What's so special about special items, when they recur quarter after quarter after quarter? Let's just call them "expenses", which is what they are

Taking a look at the financials the special charges at least are virtually all merger and one time labor related charges. That's why they are considered special. There are a couple small charges related to the annual adjustments that UA makes to the value of slots/landing rights that it holds and a small gain due to the sale of some parked aircraft.

$175 million for severance packages (FAs and Mechanics)
$475 million related to the Pilots contract
$357 million are PBGC charges
$400 million (approximate) Includes compensation costs related to systems integration and training, costs to repaint aircraft and other branding activities, costs to write-off or accelerate depreciation on systems and facilities that are no longer used or planned to be used for significantly shorter periods, relocation costs for employees and severance primarily associated with administrative headcount reductions.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11019 times:

UA has had its time to work this. 2013 it better start performing a lot like Delta. 2014, either they do or it is a strategy and leadership problem.

User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11015 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 3):
That said, wasn't the retro pay to the pilots the real cause of the operating loss?

No...that is not counted in the operating loss. Sandy reduced fourth-quarter revenue by approximately $140 million and profit by approximately $85 million. The rest of the loss for the fourth quarter is simply due to UAs typical business cycle...UA generally looses money the 4th and 1st quarters of most years and makes it up the 2nd and 3rd quarters.

Q1 revenue 8.6B cost 8.9B
Q2 revenue 9.9B cost 9.3B
Q3 revenue 9.9B cost 9.7B
Q4 revenue 8.7B cost 9.2B



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5423 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10899 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
Taking a look at the financials the special charges at least are virtually all merger and one time labor related charges.

Ok, I'll listen to the webcast before complaining more. Merger-related charges used to be estimated and expensed or reserved for at the time of the merger. These days the charges are strung out over years often serving to mask what could more fairly be called management miscalculations or outright mistakes. (Not accusing UA in particular, everybody's guilty.)



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10778 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 2):
I think Jeff is running out of excuses for UA's under performance.



I'd like to agree with you however; with the B788 issues he has an entirely new suitcase from which to select more lame reasons for his and his management selections poor showing.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 5):
UA has had its time to work this. 2013 it better start performing a lot like Delta. 2014, either they do or it is a strategy and leadership problem.



IMHO, it is pretty obvious that is already the case and has been since day 1.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 926 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10478 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 5):
UA has had its time to work this. 2013 it better start performing a lot like Delta. 2014, either they do or it is a strategy and leadership problem.

Why the comparison Delta's merger legally closed in 2008 United's merger legally closed OCt 1, 2012. So it is to be elected that Delta would perform better than United in 2012. But in 2010 Delta was still recording merger related cost.

I'll admit United made mistakes in 2012 the most notable was the PSS cutover and all the changes to MileagePlus that cost the company money. Then there were the 3 or 4 computer crashed during the spring and summer months which cost UA money. The company has completed the repaint of the narrow body mainline fleet, and has installed lie flat seating on more than 35 wide body aircraft this year another merger related cost. Then you had them settle contracts with sCO and sUA flight attendants, sCO and sUA mechanics and all pilots. All these groups received a signing bonus totally more than $600 million dollars. Then lastly you had Super Storm Sandy which closed IAD and EWR for a day and CLE was closed for half a day do to extremely high winds. Having 3 of your domestic hubs closed cost a lot of money as well.

Now while United made mistakes last year which cost the company money last year was only the second year of the merger and although it might seem like we have been in this merger a bit longer because of all the mistakes made we haven't. So the merger related cost are justified and right in line with what Delta had to deal with in 2010 when they were 2 years into their merger.

If these merger problems and cost continue to exist in 2013 then I would agree with your statement but right now I don't. Delta is 4 years into their merger the are expected to be at the top of their game by people in the airline industry and by the folks on Wall Street, 2013 is when the expectations will change for United and I hope we measure up.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10444 times:
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Quoting United1 (Reply 6):
The rest of the loss for the fourth quarter is simply due to UAs typical business cycle...UA generally looses money the 4th and 1st quarters of most years and makes it up the 2nd and 3rd quarters

But that applies to most carriers in the world...but US and DL are able to be profitable in Q4, which is a traditionally weak quarter. The combined network of UA/CO should actually help the new UA weather seasonal swings better than before.....

Quoting jayunited (Reply 9):
United's merger legally closed OCt 1, 2012

The UA-CO merger closed Oct 1 2010.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10415 times:

In another thread someone pointed out the profit margins of the Major's international routes, and UA has a very profitable international network according to that. The fact that they are still losing money tells me that something on the domestic front isn't right, and it may need to be addressed. I hope its not just a bunch of fluke things, but if they get domestic figured out, they will be great going forward.

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10315 times:
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Quoting jayunited (Reply 9):
So the merger related cost are justified and right in line with what Delta had to deal with in 2010 when they were 2 years into their merger.

DL-NW officially closed end of October 2008, while UA-CO closed Oct 1 2010. So there's about a two year timing difference between the two. So if one were to compare the two, one should look at DL-NW's performance for the full year 2010 versus UA-CO's performance for full year 2012.

For 2010, DL-NW made a Net Profit of $1.4 billion excluding special items or a $593m GAAP Profit, though Delta's operational performance was not good in 2010
Now for 2012, UA-CO made a Net Profit of $589m excluding special items or a $720m GAAP Loss. Similarly, UA's operational performance was not good in 2012...

So if you compare these two, UA is still generating less than half the net profit excluding specials and merger-related charges than DL was at the same point in time after the merger closed....


User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10177 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):
So if you compare these two, UA is still generating less than half the net profit excluding specials and merger-related charges than DL was at the same point in time after the merger closed....

I think the reason for this is the hodgepodge of CO policies and systems being implemented into United -- computer glitches, elite upgrade issues, several hubs that notoriously delayed. If you go on flyertalk and read about some of the issues, UA basically lost a major government contract on the IAD-CDG route because of elites getting ticked off about upgrades and 757 diversions. When PRASM is down, that when you know it's all smoke and mirrors at UA.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10149 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 13):
major government contract on the IAD-CDG route because of elites getting ticked off about upgrades

Government employees don't get upgrades.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):
So if one were to compare the two, one should look at DL-NW's performance for the full year 2010 versus UA-CO's performance for full year 2012.

...apples to oranges though as the general economy in 2010 was not the same as 2012. It's impossible to compare financials that way.

Quoting apodino (Reply 11):
In another thread someone pointed out the profit margins of the Major's international routes, and UA has a very profitable international network according to that.

Keep in mind that the data posted in that thread is not necessarily consistent between airlines. UA may divide revenue between international and domestic flights very differently then AA or DL do. There isn't a standard metric that the airlines are required to use...

Quoting panamair (Reply 10):
But that applies to most carriers in the world...but US and DL are able to be profitable in Q4, which is a traditionally weak quarter.

Yes but they may back-load or front-load costs and revenue differently then UA does...just because accounting is standard doesn't mean that its all done the same way....they also didn't do the bulk of their integration costs in 2012.  



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10078 times:

I really hope things turn around in 2013; I have many friends at Willis and just from talking to them, I get the feeling they are starting to get a little frustrated with Mr. Smisek.
I think once the full integration is complete, things can only go up; they truly have the best hubs in the industry, IMHO. When I was at DL (before I went to UA) I had hoped so bad that DL and UA would merge. That would have been a powerhouse (and I think CO/NW would have been a good fit too). Alas, things turned out differently.
One thing that airlines never run out of (all airlines, not just UA) is excuses: terrorism, SARS, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanic ash, strikes/slowdowns, ATC, etc. etc. I know they can't control many of these things, but it just seems like it's always something.
Here's to a new year and better things for UAL!



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Government employees don't get upgrades.

I'm not sure about that.

Either way, because of CO policy, they lost the route to AF.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10010 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 17):
Either way, because of CO policy, they lost the route to AF.

...not possible. Foreign carries can't apply for US government traffic. Now its possible that in the latest round of bidding DL (via a code share with AF) got the contract for this route. Keep in mind that government contracts, while they can be lucrative, are usually viewed as filler traffic by the airlines. UA may have not even bid on that route this year....



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10010 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Government employees don't get upgrades



It all depends on the flight time. IIRC, a flight 8 hours plus they used to get first class tickets, but regardless they certainly can use their own FF status/miles to get upgrades.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 17):
Either way, because of CO policy, they lost the route to AF



Here we go again! What policy would that be which created CO to lose the CDG route? AF had the IAH-CDG route for many years not just since UA quit flying it.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9989 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 19):
Here we go again! What policy would that be which created CO to lose the CDG route? AF had the IAH-CDG route for many years not just since UA quit flying it.


"Descend at Co-Pilots Discretion"

Oh gee I don't know -- the usual pissing off DC flyers by flying a 757 beyond it's intended distance and having diversions.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9939 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
the usual pissing off DC flyers by flying a 757 beyond it's intended distance and having diversions.

...it's a 2 class 763 and has been for a while..looks to be the same equipment on the route for the summer as well. They did fly a 752 on the route for a while why they worked on the 2 class 763 conversion.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 874 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9920 times:

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
Oh gee I don't know -- the usual pissing off DC flyers by flying a 757 beyond it's intended distance and having diversions.

How many diversions since the route switched from sUA 763s to sCO 752s?

Granted, the 767-300 is a great airplane with better range, but why was the route switched? I seem to recall it was part of the cycle to move 763s around to other (read: more profitable) routes AND to refurbish the often ratty 763s. Isn't that project about done?



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9919 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 21):

They switched it back from last winter (for obvious reasons.)



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9792 times:

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 16):
I have many friends at Willis and just from talking to them, I get the feeling they are starting to get a little frustrated with Mr. Smisek.

The few that I know there too also feel the same....



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
25 apodino : The question is...how long before the shareholders feel the same?
26 RDH3E : This morning announced a 6% management headcount reduction, which is about 700 heads per the earnings call if memory serves. There has been a volunta
27 COflyerBOS : Could job, Smisek. Maybe UA should cut back IAH flying even more. That strategy seems to be working so well for you up in Chicago.
28 tommy767 : IAH travelers really don't have any right to complain. You guys are seeing many equipment upgrades as a result of the merger.
29 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Really, I certainly don't call an A319 an upgrade over a B738/9 with TV's, nor a B763 on the LHR route over a B772. It certainly does, wonder what cu
30 Flighty : Sure. These comments regarding 2012 are understandable. But now it is 2013. Those days are over. United needs to be done merging now. It needs to run
31 tommy767 : The 319s have comfortable seats that won't make you go running to a chiropractor after deplaning from a 738 or 739. And yes, the 319s have video (Fre
32 IAHFLYR : I've never had to see a chiropractor after numerous flights on the Boeing jets, but I will agree the buses have nice seats. The video system is at be
33 FlyHossD : So how many diversions were there (when the sCO 752 was on the IAD-CDG route)? I'd genuinely like to know.
34 tpaewr : DL also has a much more labor flex being almost totally non-union. Other than pilots new contract everything at "United" is still very much two airlin
35 IAHFLYR : IIRC the seniority list for the pilots is supposed to be merged in the May/June time which should help. Last I heard I believe the pilots had complet
36 United1 : ...there are some hints of forward movement in that area. They may have something to announce this quarter regarding a couple of the unions.
37 RDH3E : Not knowing all the reasons, could include mechanicals etc, but 31 westbound diversions, and 1 eastbound diversion.
38 strfyr51 : I work at Willis and the frustration isn't about Smisek. It's the fact that we've been moving so damned slow with the integration and Nobody on the C
39 coairman : I agree. The CO 737's have had uncomfortable seats for years. Poor back and seat cushion support. The airbus aircraft have much more comfortable seat
40 tommy767 : I think of all the other US carriers: AA, DL, and US. DL has many aircraft that only have wi fi, AA only has aircraft that are overhead IFE ready, an
41 CALTECH : Not with TechOps. We are still pretty much 2 distinct seperate groups. We don't even have uniforms yet, though they have been ordered and are on the
42 aaexecplat : The reason the results are poor and the reason for industry lagging PRASM growth is that UA has just lost too many elites since the MileagePlus progra
43 tommy767 : So many awards, so many accolades, yet they don't exist anymore and the one person who's job is to sustain profitability at United and cannot is from
44 aaexecplat : CO was once great. I was a Plat on CO starting under Gordo. And continued to be a Plat under Larry and then Jeff and now Plat on UA. The reality is t
45 CODC10 : This is one of your favorite retorts but it's flat-out wrong. Continental Airlines, Inc. still exists as a separate legal entity, a subsidiary of Uni
46 tommy767 : I have heard on this forum that although Gordo "retired" he was indeed forced out back in 2004-2005. Larry and Jeff are two different people but are
47 IAHFLYR : I didn't know it was either until someone posted it, sure seemed strange to me since CO was all I flew from 1986 till the merger and can't remember g
48 United1 : ...indeed...check in on UA is very easy. On my phone, on the web or at the airport...and the automatic check in for the return flight is a nice featu
49 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Spot on Marine!! Even I the Army guy can't foul that up!
50 EaglePower83 : Of course it will be. Since everything PMUA has been jettisoned anyway, since it was deemed inferior by the new CO regime. UA had a rough reputation,
51 aaexecplat : So let me get this straight...you were not forced to check yourself and three other folks on the same PNR in on the kiosk? And when you did all the w
52 RDH3E : Where the heck were you?
53 IAHFLYR : After swiping my passport and that of my wife the agent verified everything and poof off we went. Last week in fact my son and I were taking an over
54 United1 : ...where were you at? And no once forces you use a kiosk...you can wait for the agent (s). I would guess that my experience in SFO/EWR/JFK is very di
55 aaexecplat : This was my second UA itinerary internationally. Both originated in AUS. Same exact issue both times. I was forced to use the kiosk (no agents at the
56 slider : Unimatic stinks. The load planning program is sub UA too I believe, as are many of the NOC functions. The accounts payable system is also UA and blow
57 FlyHossD : I just saw an email from one of SUA's Merger Committee members; August at the earliest according to him. I'd estimate even later. And I hear plenty f
58 DualQual : The timeframe is more like end of August for an arbitrated list. Short of both sides negotiating a list (doubtful) the case will go to the arbitrator
59 COSPN : Ramp and Pax service still waiting for a contact..Rampers put on the street (furloughed) at one sub s/Airmike when they are hiring 'off the street' at
60 UALWN : Uh? When I worked for a US governmental agency I was regularly upgraded... because I was 1K. The negotiated government rate was considered equivalent
61 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Thanks for the update. I had not talked to any of my pilots friends in about a week, last they told me May/June so I'm sure they are over joyed with
62 FlyHossD : Yes, as I recall, the remainder of the lump sum doesn't come until the seniority list is integrated.
63 Post contains images United1 : ...yup. I just looked up the route DL got the contract for that particular route this year. Its a code share with AF which is allowed under Fly Ameri
64 AVENSAB727 : I think 2013 will be a good year for United. They should start to really improve. Or Else.
65 yellowtail : And ever time they ignore IAH a little another carrier moves in there.....NK, TK, etc etc....
66 jayunited : Two years into the merger United's problems were completely different than Delta's were, and although we recorded a lost in 2012 I think Wall Street e
67 United1 : Excellent post....you hit the nail on the head.
68 Bruce : Another thing United did last year was terminate service contracts for ground handling Express flights at numerous airports with long time seasoned em
69 sshank : I am with you on this - its not just AUS. The EWR check in experience even when checking in for long haul flight in the BusinessFirst cabin is an abs
70 FlyHossD : First, that was a nice summary. Thank you. Some of the stories I've heard about last summer's operation might bear repeating again somewhere, but it
71 tommy767 : DL got lie flat seats on their 777s starting in 2008.
72 Post contains links and images CALTECH : The numbers do not seem to support your post. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...uarter-2012-results-188186741.html •UAL full-year 2012 consoli
73 United1 : I thought CO invented complimentary upgrades for their elites?
74 lucky777 : True...starting with the 777LR's. The ER's would start getting the lie-flats in 2011 i believe though, correct?
75 CALTECH : Have never seen it at this level. 1st Class could be wide open, I'll be first on the standby list and boom, don't get the upgrade. Remember when not
76 chiawei : When your 1k member would choose SQ lounge over your lounge in SFO, your airline is in trouble.
77 MasseyBrown : If you listen to today's earnings webcast, you will hear a 'mea maxima culpa' from Smisek, maybe even an over-apology for the troubles of last 2012.
78 Deltal1011man : ....If your going to bring Delta into this, at least do it right. The first LR came in 2008 with lie-flats.
79 rwy04lga : For comparison, DL employees will get $372 million in profit sharing which will also be distributed Feb 14, 2013.
80 EaglePower83 : YES, every flight. I had 6 round trip flights in 2012 prior to August '12 andEVERY one of them was delayed or MX broken. I'm not kidding. Oh, and my
81 MaverickM11 : It got pretty bad, for a multitude of reasons, but it's also mostly under control now.
82 FlyPNS1 : Except that UA's revenue growth is way behind it's competitors, so it's not doing anything that good. UA's management admitted yesterday that corpora
83 F9animal : I still wonder if this merger was beneficial to either airline. Whats done is done. I hope UA gets itself profitable sooner than later. Meaning, profi
84 klwright69 : UA operations seem to be doing better from my little unscientific sample. Last year, UA flights 846/847 were interesting to look at. UAs flights from
85 gigneil : Compare them for us. Please. NS
86 Flighty : If their HQ were in IAH, it would have turned out differently. CO getting more size and UA getting CO's management. But, that's not what happened. UA
87 United1 : UAs stock price is actually up from close of business on Wednesday prior to UA announcing its results for the quarter. UAs quarterly loss was no shoc
88 gigneil : ...for knowing how to run an airline roughly 3 times the size with a significantly different addresses market of customers and a high level of automa
89 MaverickM11 : It wasn't UA management so much as Chicago and Illinois, who had friends in very high places, one in particulary. Well, let's not get carried away.
90 aaexecplat : My post was deleted? Seriously? Not a single offensive word in it. Maybe that's my clue that criticism of UA is not permitted in this thread. Very wel
91 Sulley : So many upgradeable elites now... I used to get F regularly from MCO. I think I've gotten it once or twice in 2012 on a domestic flight.
92 kordcj : I'm sorry but Obama had nothing to do with the decision to stay headquartered in Chicago. It was simply a matter of a deal the city struck with PMUA
93 slider : BINGO. It had to pass DOJ muster and that was only going to happen with nudging from POTUS to get it done. Typical Chicago politics. Sorry, wrong. Do
94 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Chicago is bah-roke. IL even more so. There's no way they had any meaningful financial leverage. Political leverage, however, is another story.
95 SonomaFlyer : Perhaps UA will do something along the lines of what DL has done with their frequent flier program. I know you elites will boil at someone saying thi
96 tommy767 : where do people come up with this stuff? It's not. Despite the threads on a.net you might see, oftentimes its far from the truth.
97 Post contains images United1 : United has 250 aircraft on order....I got that from their 10K.
98 tommy767 : I meant take away first class -- no evidence at all except a.net gossip. Great, they have new aircraft on order. Completely useless if they are losin
99 Post contains links SonomaFlyer : I don't mind being corrected so please point out what is wrong? We know first class is going away on many international (sorry I didn't clarify) rout
100 Post contains links tommy767 : flyertalk is hatin' on this situation. Worth a looksie: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...r-fourth-quarter-2012-results.html
101 MaverickM11 : They hate everything. They also don't have a clue what they're talking about. For any airline. Three class F is going the way of the dodo bird, aroun
102 United1 : There is allot of evidence that F class is being scaled back, or going away, at many carriers. AA is the latest by removing F on their 772's and even
103 tommy767 : You could EASILY make the same argument about these forum as well.
104 MaverickM11 : I think this forum is weighted more toward people who are in the industry and are familiar with the complexities of it, where as flyertalk is more pe
105 Post contains images SonomaFlyer :
106 BEG2IAH : I wonder what has Continental done to you in the past to be so bitter in every single post. This is beyond trolling and it sounds just like Flyertalk
107 MasseyBrown : With exceptions, I wouldn't say posters in this forum are broadly savvy on corporate finance. Even when someone makes an astute or insightful financi
108 dtwlax : get your facts right. What kind of IFE are you talking about? Overhead monitors? DL has long had that except maybe for the Airbus fleet. DL has much
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