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JetBlue To Launch ORD/PHL/BWI-SJU?  
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8351 times:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-america-and-the-caribbean-381426/

From John Checketts, JetBlue director of route planning (aka the guy who actually makes decisions regarding the things we speculate about):

"Other US cities that could possibly benefit from direct connections to the Caribbean include Chicago, Philadelphia and Baltimore, says Checketts, as he points out the success JetBlue has had with its flights to San Juan from Washington DC and Hartford."

"JetBlue is aiming to add more islands in the Caribbean to its network and is not ruling out launching flights to new Latin American destinations like Brazil and Peru"

"In Latin America, the carrier is eyeing flights to destinations in Peru, Panama, Guatemala and Brazil. Checketts says there are "two or three" destinations in Brazil that the airline could fly to from Fort Lauderdale with its Airbus A320s."

These are much more specific indications of where B6 is headed next rather than Barger's boilerplate "Boston and Latin America" comments.

JetBluefan1

[Edited 2013-01-24 20:22:21]


Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8283 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Thread starter):
"In Latin America, the carrier is eyeing flights to destinations in Peru, Panama, Guatemala and Brazil. Checketts says there are "two or three" destinations in Brazil that the airline could fly to from Fort Lauderdale with its Airbus A320s."

Let this also put the rest the nonsense about JetBlue entering SJU-South America. If JetBlue develops South America, or more of Central America, it's coming from FLL - whether Lima, Panama City or Belem.



a.
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8019 times:

....still waiting for them to look at opportunities north of the border  

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3461 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7990 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
If JetBlue develops South America, or more of Central America, it's coming from FLL

Isn't FLL pretty full already with NK, B6 & WN? How much more can any one carrier add before FLL bursts at the seams?

BTW - Happy A.net Birthday!!!!



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7731 times:

mah, do us a favor and don't make expertise predictions regarding topics in which you are not an expert.

You have no idea what b6 has planned for sju.

The only thing we do know is that AA left it wide open and B6 has filled in...with stated intention to continue to grow the city.

That may mean a lot of things


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7517 times:

Quoting Noise (Reply 2):

Taxes are too high


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

AA left junk low yield wide open thats it. B6 can make money on that right now

User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Can B6 compete with WN/FL on the BWI-SJU?? Beginning in spring some BWI-SJU will be WN metal

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7481 times:

When are they going to bring back the 2nd daily EWR-SJU?


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7441 times:

ORD fares are terrible--just price it out on any website and it's consistently around $300rt all in or less for essentially a transcon flight. B6 does not do well in ORD either, so while they could try ORDSJU, it probably would not last long. PHL and BWI would be slightly better, but I don't think the market is big enough for another carrier, nor can fares be low enough to stimulate traffic and cover costs.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 7):
Can B6 compete with WN/FL on the BWI-SJU?? Beginning in spring some BWI-SJU will be WN metal

I don't think WN stands a chance in SJU. B6 is like the AS of the East Coast--if they set their mind to something they can push WN pretty easily.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
The only thing we do know is that AA left it wide open and B6 has filled in...

B6 has only partially filled AA's shoes in SJU, and it's not like there's loads of opportunity in SJU.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1040 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

With UA leaving the ORD-SJU market and AA cutting their frequencies to 1 daily and 2 on saturday, the Chicago market could use another carrier on this route. Although the expense of operating this route has driven the legacy carriers away for the most part I think JetBlue or even Southwest could enter this market and make it work with their single class high capacity layout. The only problem I see JetBlue running into here at ORD is available gate space and one this that is for sure is AA, DL, UA or US is not giving up any gate space to JetBlue or any other carrier that want to expand here at O'Hare.

User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7435 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I don't think WN stands a chance in SJU. B6 is like the AS of the East Coast--if they set their mind to something they can push WN pretty easily.

I think the issue for B6 here is BWI. Southwest may currently be lousy on the SJU side of the ops, but they are force to be reckoned with at BWI. I have a feeling that if B6 were to start BWI-SJU, WN would go ballistic.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7358 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
PHL and BWI would be slightly better, but I don't think the market is big enough for another carrier, nor can fares be low enough to stimulate traffic and cover costs.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
When are they going to bring back the 2nd daily EWR-SJU?

I would have thought B6 would venture PHL-FLL before PHL-SJU and maybe just increase frequency like 2x daily on EWR-SJU.

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 11):
Southwest may currently be lousy on the SJU side of the ops, but they are force to be reckoned with at BWI.

I'm not sure about them going ballistic to protect it like that esp with the route being so long. While Southwest is huge there with essentially a hub, it's more a volume carrier for the DC region. It still doesn't have routes over 900 miles BWI-MSP and BWI-SFO, two key routes to major business markets, and it'd rather build volume with low fares on one-stops, e.g. $100 WGA to MSP with a one stop. It's still not like a fortress hub in a smaller region like US at CLT.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7318 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
B6 has only partially filled AA's shoes in SJU, and it's not like there's loads of opportunity in SJU.

I have to agree, speaking to friends who are from Puerto Rico but living and working in the US right now it seems like the economy down there is much worse than what we're experiencing up here. Economically the Continental US has a cold and Puerto Rico has pneumonia. I don't think air travel to SJU is ever going to be anywhere near what it was in the Nineties. I think B6 might find a couple more opportunities, like PHL or BWI, but I think they're refocusing on FLL long term. Who knows what's going to happen with NK from day to day, so B6 is in a good position to become the lead carrier to the Caribbean and Central/South America from FLL.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I don't think WN stands a chance in SJU. B6 is like the AS of the East Coast--if they set their mind to something they can push WN pretty easily.

And yet WN does well on the west coast competing against AS.....


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7130 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 11):

I think the issue for B6 here is BWI. Southwest may currently be lousy on the SJU side of the ops, but they are force to be reckoned with at BWI. I have a feeling that if B6 were to start BWI-SJU, WN would go ballistic.

SJU markets are mostly local, with zero loyalty, so they'll take whoever is cheapest. I don't doubt WN would protect its turft in BWI, but ultimately the lowest cost producer in the market is going to win out, as long as it has a high pain tolerance.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 14):

And yet WN does well on the west coast competing against AS.....

Not in the NW. They don't even bother with nonstops between SEA/PDX and Southern California. They've completely exited NW shorthaul.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7005 times:

Lol, a quick check of the adjectives says it all. They will "definitely" ramp-up Florida-Latin America/Caribbean, whilst they could "possibly" serve the likes of ORD, PHL, and/or BWI from "the Caribbean"; presumably this means their burgeoning SJU focus city. I think many overlook that he spoke of linking additional U.S. cities to the Caribbean, not San Juan or Puerto Rico. SJU's O&D, for better or worse, is only part of the equation. There are now lots of beyond SJU Caribbean options as well, including very popular tourist destinations like PUJ, STT, and SXM. PHL has lots of service to the Caribbean, although I would imagine it's rather expensive given that US has no nonstop competition other than a few Apple/F9 flights mostly filled with package tour folks. AA did fly PHL-SJU alongside US for years; I imagine there must still be room for two carriers in that realm. BWI-Caribbean is served only by FL/WN - markets like SXM and STT are not served by them at all. ORD does have fairly decent nonstop links to the Caribbean, but I bet a lot of Chicagoans will miss the beyond-SJU options when Eagle's hub closes in March. I think all 3 could work, especially if we see even more intra-Caribbean flights come online to offer feed/connectivity on the SJU end. Interesting that they allude to rather competitive SJU-ORD/PHL/BWI routes - with established incumbents - rather than niche routes like SJU-RDU/PVD/HPN. Also, I wonder if we'll see a crew base open at SJU. Any way you look at it, B6 is an exciting carrier to watch!


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 12):
I would have thought B6 would venture PHL-FLL before PHL-SJU

WN is on the route with 3-4 flts a day. I'm not saying they won't try but it will face some competition.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
PHL has lots of service to the Caribbean, although I would imagine it's rather expensive given that US has no nonstop competition other than a few Apple/F9 flights mostly filled with package tour folks. AA did fly PHL-SJU alongside US for years; I imagine there must still be room for two carriers in that realm

And US' network to the Caribbean from PHL isn't great, many flts are weekend only or less than daily, only the big destinations are daily. And yes AA did run along side US for a long time so that gives me hope that B6 can do the same as they continue to build SJU.


User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 17):
And US' network to the Caribbean from PHL isn't great, many flts are weekend only or less than daily, only the big destinations are daily. And yes AA did run along side US for a long time so that gives me hope that B6 can do the same as they continue to build SJU.

US has chosen CLT for it's Caribbean flights to smaller destinations (ANU, SKB, etc). PHL supports daily to MBJ, SJU, PUJ, etc.

I'd like to see B6 fly PHL-SJU to compete with US - their fares are ofter $600+

The flight could be routed BOS-PHL-SJU-PHL-BOS


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6538 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6778 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
Let this also put the rest the nonsense about JetBlue entering SJU-South America. If JetBlue develops South America, or more of Central America, it's coming from FLL - whether Lima, Panama City or Belem.

Why is it nonsense when a forum mwmber states his opinion on a carrier strarting new routes out of MIA/FLL or anything about AA?It Iooks as though those are your private domain?


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6491 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
mah, do us a favor and don't make expertise predictions regarding topics in which you are not an expert.

You have no idea what b6 has planned for sju.

The only thing we do know is that AA left it wide open and B6 has filled in...with stated intention to continue to grow the city.

That may mean a lot of things

I never claim to be an expert.

The San Juan market is perhaps one of the worst yielding domestic markets. Yields sucks. Really bad. From almost everywhere. There is also no local market to South America outside of Colombia/Venezuela.

It doesn't take an expert to figure out what that means re: JetBlue flying South America-Puerto Rico.

AA had a full fledged hub in San Juan that supported extensive service. There is no gap to fill unless JetBlue wants to operate a 125+ daily flight operation, which makes no sense sans some 19-50 seat props.



a.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 21):
AA had a full fledged hub in San Juan that supported extensive service.

And yet next to nothing to Latin America from SJU outside of CCS.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6093 times:
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Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
If JetBlue develops South America, or more of Central America, it's coming from FLL - whether Lima, Panama City or Belem.

I would think MCO has a decent chance too for B6. FLL would be more ideal, but that will be a question of yield vs. gate availability.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 6):
AA left junk low yield wide open thats it. B6 can make money on that right now

Why the word "junk?" It is low yield? Ok. But B6 has a much better cost structure than AA. In particular if B6 utilizes A321s. The question is, how much will SJU tolerate B6's baggage policy? By having AA pull off the route, B6 is able to come in with a 'clean slate' on policies.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinecmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 999 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5980 times:

What they should do is cancel the TPA-SJU and instead run ORD-SRQ-SJU


The voice of moderation
User currently offlineusair330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 830 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

PHL-SJU B6 I'll be on the first flight!!! If not working it. Hopefully

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3350 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4903 times:
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Quoting Flytravel (Reply 12):

I just see one problem there. The slots at EWR. I don't think they'd want to trim any existing capacity in EWR, so unless they could precure the slots I don't see them increasing SJU-EWR. I'm not saying it WOULDN'T happne, I just don;t think it's likely without more slots.

Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 23):

Hmm, based on your username, I'm thinking there's some bias here............  

On a side note, how are B6's routes from SRQ doing? Would it be completely far-fetched to think they could expand there a bit more?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 23):
What they should do is cancel the TPA-SJU and instead run ORD-SRQ-SJU

ORD-SRQ-SJU would be a little bit of a problem right now as all 3 of those cities do not have B6 MX. SJU needs to have MX in it to really start connecting like that, especially since the MEL on certain things has recently been reduced to a very minimal amount of flight cycles. Don't get me wrong, we have an awesome contract MX business partner in SJU, but to start connecting the dots we would need to build up SJU as a MX base of our own complete with a lot more aircraft components than we currently stock there (which is more than almost every other contract MX city except BDA which we have a lot of stuff in too due to the HF Comm needs).



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 25):
I just see one problem there. The slots at EWR. I don't think they'd want to trim any existing capacity in EWR, so unless they could precure the slots I don't see them increasing SJU-EWR. I'm not saying it WOULDN'T happne, I just don;t think it's likely without more slots.

Did B6 manage to gain more slots? BOS-EWR started awhile back and it doesn't look like any Florida flying had to be trimmed. Here is the schedule for Monday, 1/28:

BOS 5
FLL 5
RSW 1
MCO 5
TPA 1
PBI 1
SJU 1

19 daily flights -- which are distributed differently than LGA service, but of course with a heavy focus on Florida. FYI B6 launched flights to Newark in 2005 with 16 daily flights. So somewhere along the line B6 managed to pick up 3 slots (these were not publicly purchased, unlike LGA and DCA slots), and possibly has the ability to add more.

Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 23):
What they should do is cancel the TPA-SJU and instead run ORD-SRQ-SJU

What's the logic behind this? B6 does well on TPA-SJU -- it was quickly bumped up to a second frequency despite its relative newness to the B6 network. I would assume that some traffic was cannibalized from MCO, however.

B6 should launch SRQ-DCA if it can get the slot.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 22):
I would think MCO has a decent chance too for B6. FLL would be more ideal, but that will be a question of yield vs. gate availability.

The B6 terminal @ FLL is a total mess and clusterf*ck. I'm surprised B6 manages its operation there as it currently stands. MCO on the other hand is more spacious and not as...disgusting. With B6's apparent success on MCO-BOG/SJO/SDQ -- which, correct me if I'm wrong, are not particularly large markets -- I wouldn't be surprised to see MCO continue to complement the FLL-centric Latin America flying on select routes.

The intriguing thing about MCO is that it is the gateway to the most recognized theme parks/resorts in the world. It is globally known. FLL is not.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 17):
WN is on the route with 3-4 flts a day. I'm not saying they won't try but it will face some competition.

How many flights does US have on PHL-FLL? I would think that B6 could fill a flight or two with FLL-based passengers alone (and some connecting feed) given its large brand name in SoFlo. Northeast-Florida is B6's bread and butter.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 16):
Interesting that they allude to rather competitive SJU-ORD/PHL/BWI routes - with established incumbents - rather than niche routes like SJU-RDU/PVD/HPN.

What do you think the chances are of B6 establishing these niche routes? Can SJU-RDU/PVD/HPN support daily service? From what I hear, NAS-HPN bleeds money (and uses up a valuable slot at HPN), so if that's any indication of B6's future plans then I don't see SJU-HPN. Then again, one could argue that SJU has much deeper ties to the NYM area rather than NAS, which is 99% vacation traffic.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
B6 has only partially filled AA's shoes in SJU, and it's not like there's loads of opportunity in SJU.

The interesting thing about SJU is that it is situated nearest to South America than any of B6's other focus cities. B6 can penetrate markets from SJU that it can't penetrate from FLL/MCO with its current fleet. It's also quite the perfect connecting point for many North America-South America traffic flows.

But O&D sucks, as you allude.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 3):
Isn't FLL pretty full already with NK, B6 & WN? How much more can any one carrier add before FLL bursts at the seams?

Besides the gate issue, there isn't much stopping B6 from expanding FLL. There are virtually limitless opportunities. 20 miles down the road, MIA supports hundreds of flights to South/Central America and the Caribbean. B6 can easily (with some effort) pull traffic to its flights from people who would otherwise fly AA or the international carrier @ MIA. Given B6's very large brand name in SoFlo, they would be stupid not to capitalize on these advantages.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8513 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4755 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 3):
Isn't FLL pretty full already with NK, B6 & WN? How much more can any one carrier add before FLL bursts at the seams

Could there be a merger between Spirit and Jetblue on the future primarily because of FLL ? Spirit and JB do the same thing with the same planes, if JB bought Spirit it would get a huge network in North Latin America. Spirit also has private equity ownership with Oaktree Capital which would love to cash out.


User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

PVD would probably be better served with seasonal SAT/SUN service to start. There is market and the flow opportunities via SJU are enough to make PVD work in my opinion.

User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 27):
The intriguing thing about MCO is that it is the gateway to the most recognized theme parks/resorts in the world. It is globally known. FLL is not.

FLL is Miami. That's globally known, and its a larger market to everywhere in South America than Orlando.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 27):
The interesting thing about SJU is that it is situated nearest to South America than any of B6's other focus cities. B6 can penetrate markets from SJU that it can't penetrate from FLL/MCO with its current fleet. It's also quite the perfect connecting point for many North America-South America traffic flows.

No, it can't penetrate markets further south. Anything that makes sense for JetBlue - with a monoclass, narrow body fleet - can be reached from FLL, and a lot of it from MCO. An American carrier can't fly an A320 to São Paulo without a premium cabin and make a dime. Geographically, it's just as "perfect" as FLL/MCO.



a.
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Nice to see PHL and BWI getting other routes other than to BOS. Do you think JB will add PHL/BWI-FLL,MCO,TPA and maybe a flight out west?

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 17):
WN is on the route with 3-4 flts a day. I'm not saying they won't try but it will face some competition.

WN is down to only 1 Southwest departure on PHL-FLL, and lost are the PHL-RDU connections and PHL-PBI is gone from WN metal altogether as well. It is flying it most part on FL now on 717 aircraft that will eventually be phased off. It doesn't seem a route WN cares too much about preserving, if it's moved off WN metal. I suspect it'll want to preserve PHL-MCO/TPA given focus on southbound connections, and suspect transition of ATL though.

More competition might come in via Spirit as well if it expands more at PHL and BWI. BWI-MCO-I'm sure either JetBlue or Spirit will compete as it's big market to just have one carrier that is Southwest, although right now it's under WN and FL.

In PHL, maybe PHL-FLL/MCO from either or one of the two carriers. Plus, if F9 is able to make TTN-Florida successful, it's more indirect competition but enough to take away pax, where WN could be not really wanting to preserve PHL-Florida routes. More problematic to WN would be if Spirit launched BWI-ORD and PHL-ORD, as the MDW flights are the meat and potatoes, and it might pressure WN to need to lower fares to MDW.

One daily B6 flight should be okay (like B6 on RDU-FLL), given B6's better onboard experience and connections southbound. If B6 could fly FLL-LIM for example, it'd be a valid way to reach Peru from Philly. US's South American service is lacking, and many need to trek to EWR or connect on another carrier anyways.


User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 30):
FLL is Miami. That's globally known

No, it is not. Miami is globally known. Fort Lauderdale simply does not have the same global recognition.

I'll give you an example. I live in NYC and am heading to FLL next weekend and told my coworkers, half of whom are foreign. When I told them I'm going to FLL, none of the foreigners knew it was a city close to Miami (some even thought it was in the Caribbean).

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 30):
Geographically, it's just as "perfect" as FLL/MCO.

SJU - BSB: 2670
FLL - BSB: 3620

SJU - REC: 2800
FLL - REC: 3840

SJU - LPB: 2420
FLL - LPB: 3050

B6 cannot penetrate these markets from FLL with its current fleet.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 28):
Could there be a merger between Spirit and Jetblue on the future primarily because of FLL ? Spirit and JB do the same thing with the same planes, if JB bought Spirit it would get a huge network in North Latin America. Spirit also has private equity ownership with Oaktree Capital which would love to cash out.

B6 would be shooting itself in the foot if it were to buy NK. The only thing NK has that B6 would be interested in are A320's and A321's (which B6 has on order), and the FLL focus city (which B6 is doing a good job of dismantling).

The service standards are also completely different. B6 has incredible brand power and is known for its product and service. NK is known for its extremely cheap fares and its absurd tackiness.

Further, B6 has shown its preference to grow organically. NK, B6, and AS are the only major US airlines (besides AA, which is likely to merge with US) which have not been at all involved in the recent string of consolidation and I expect it to remain that way.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Not in the NW. They don't even bother with nonstops between SEA/PDX and Southern California. They've completely exited NW shorthaul.

WN carries a lot of traffic between the PacNW and So Cal via OAK. Overall they are the #2 carrier ahead of UAL in the entire market.

WN will have no trouble competing from BWI/MCO to SJU. For anyone to think otherwise is incorrect.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 33):
SJU - LPB: 2420
FLL - LPB: 3050

B6 cannot penetrate these markets from FLL with its current fleet.

They're not going to penetrate La Paz either, doesn't matter where, with their Airbuses. Even a NEO is not going to be able to make it from LPB to the US (including SJU) due to the altitude. LPB is what 14,000ft above sea level?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 36, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4504 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 33):
SJU - BSB: 2670
FLL - BSB: 3620

There's no SJUBSB market worth havin.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 34):

WN carries a lot of traffic between the PacNW and So Cal via OAK. Overall they are the #2 carrier ahead of UAL in the entire market.

All the network carriers carry a lot of traffic between MCO and Europe--it doesn't mean it's a recipe for success or would be viable as a nonstop. AS has successfully pushed WN out of a lot of nonstop markets in the NW, and the upcoming WN foray into Hawaii may be similarly telling.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 34):
WN will have no trouble competing from BWI/MCO to SJU. For anyone to think otherwise is incorrect.

I think they're too little, too late, in a market where their costs may no longer work. Think of all the midhauls WN has been dropping lately--those all tend to have higher fares than SJU.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 37, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 36):
There's no SJUBSB market worth havin.

Right. But my point is that SJU is well situated as a connecting point for markets that B6 cannot access from FLL/MCO. I would think that a JFK/BOS/DCA-SJU-BSB routing would be very popular, as well as select other South American destinations that B6 cannot access from Florida. SJU as a connecting point severely reduces any "backtracking" that occurs because it is directly in the direction of the South America -- southeast.



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 36):
I think they're too little, too late, in a market where their costs may no longer work.

You realize, no, they are not to little or late... B6 has not even announced plans for the route.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 39, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 38):
. B6 has not even announced plans for the route.

They're already in DCA, commanding a $50rt premium over BWI, which starts around $259rt all in. That means WN is getting $105 each way for a four hour flight.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4377 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 39):

I dont know what logic you are using, but WN is getting what they charge. And your logic that DCA and BWI should be at the same fare level is completely wrong.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 41, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 40):
I dont know what logic you are using, but WN is getting what they charge.

Yeah, they're charging $105 each way, and that is what they are getting. Mind you they've dropped things of similar stage length like ABQMCO where the average fare starts around the same level, or even BOSPHL, where the lowest roundtrip is about $19 less than BWISJU. BOSPHL is also a fifth the distance of BWISJU.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 40):
And your logic that DCA and BWI should be at the same fare level is completely wrong.

That's not what I said. I said WN has to run a discount to DCA (not unusual) to attract flyers, and the DCASJU fare isn't that great to begin with.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4323 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):
Yeah, they're charging $105 each way, and that is what they are getting.

I dont know what dates you are looking at but the average I see is $195.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 43, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 42):
I dont know what dates you are looking at but the average I see is $195.

Any online metasearch engine like Kayak. FL is charging around $2-250rt all in through at least May.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 44, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 33):
No, it is not. Miami is globally known. Fort Lauderdale simply does not have the same global recognition.

That's not the point. It's Miami. That draws people more than Orlando. Further, anybody in Latin America knows very well where Ft. Lauderdale is, and that it's part of Miami. That's what is relevant here.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 33):
B6 cannot penetrate these markets from FLL with its current fleet.

B6 can't penetrate those markets, period. Doesn't matter where it's from. La Paz? It's a tiny market. Miami accounts for more than 60% of U.S.-La Paz Traffic, and it's not even 80 PDEW from Miami. Admittedly, it's a very high fare market, but there's no demand outside of Miami and Washington, D.C. AA's biggest feeder markets into LPB are IAD, DCA, BCN, MAD and MEX. No domestic demand.

Admitedly, Brasilia is a large market, especially from Miami (150 PDEW), but if you can't grab some good local traffic from SJU (and you can't), it doesn't matter.

SJUDXB has more demand than SJULPB.



a.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43):
FL is charging around $2-250rt all in through at least May.

And they have been in the market for years, WN hasn't even started the route yet. None of your argument works, stop trying to make it work.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 46, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 45):
And they have been in the market for years, WN hasn't even started the route yet

What makes you think WN is just going to waltz right in and command a nearly 70+% premium over FL from one day to the next? Because that has never happened before. The market sets the price, not FL or WN.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 45):
. None of your argument works, stop trying to make it work.

Bless your heart; you have no idea what you're talking about. My argument is actually pretty straight forward and cogent: BWISJU fares are cheap, and WN has canceled shorter flights with better fares many times before.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46):

Your puting words in my mouth because I didn't put percents anywhere. Abd you though the average fare was $105 when it was nearly double.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3350 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 33):

Enter NEOs 
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 38):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 39):

Let's just say that both airlines are doing what works for them, otherwise they probably wouldn't be doing it. Let's try to keep this civil.  
Quoting pvd757 (Reply 29):

I agree. I still personally think that PVD could make SJU daily or at least seasonally.

I wonder if the route could be flown with E190s? I mean AC runs EWR-YYC and YYZ-SEA on them and B6 runs JFK-SJU with an E-190 too.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 49, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3689 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 47):

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46):

Your puting words in my mouth because I didn't put percents anywhere. Abd you though the average fare was $105 when it was nearly double.


No. He said the average round-trip was $259 all-in. When you subtract taxes that go to the government (about $40 in this fare), he said Southest gets about $105 each way. That's accurate.



a.
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 33):
and the FLL focus city (which B6 is doing a good job of dismantling).

Hold on, I thought B6 was expanding FLL. The only recent cut I remember is CLT. They have made up for it though with the addition of MDE, KIN, BOG and now the planning of FLL-Brazil. On the other hand Spirit is definitely dismantling FLL because it strangely doesn't want to compete with B6..


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 49):
He said the average round-trip was $259 all-in. When you subtract taxes that go to the government (about $40 in this fare), he said Southest gets about $105 each way. That's accurate.

$259-$40 does not equal $105. The numbers are mixed up somewhere, none the less, agree to disagree.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 52, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3533 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 51):
$259-$40 does not equal $105. The numbers are mixed up somewhere, none the less, agree to disagree.

Let's agree to disagree on math?

$259-40=219 (round trip)

219/2 = $108.50 (one way), so just a little more than $105 each way.

Simple math, nothing mixed up. WN gets around $105 each way for a BWISJU passenger.



a.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 52):

Didn't know he meant round trip, anyway the average fare is $195 one-way. Lets agree to disagree was meant to stop this conversation nicely.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3019 posts, RR: 14
Reply 54, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 50):
Hold on, I thought B6 was expanding FLL. The only recent cut I remember is CLT. They have made up for it though with the addition of MDE, KIN, BOG and now the planning of FLL-Brazil. On the other hand Spirit is definitely dismantling FLL because it strangely doesn't want to compete with B6..

That's what I meant. B6 is doing a good job of dismantling NK's FLL hub. I'm not sure why NK can't compete with B6, but I would think the drastic differences in service are more pronounced on niche international markets.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 55, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 53):

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 52):

Didn't know he meant round trip, anyway the average fare is $195 one-way. Lets agree to disagree was meant to stop this conversation nicely.


Well, no, let's not, because again, math.

The average round-trip fare is $259 including taxes. So, including taxes, the average one way is $129.50. There's nothing to "agree to disagree" on facts.



a.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 55):
The average round-trip fare is $259 including taxes. So, including taxes, the average one way is $129.50. There's nothing to "agree to disagree" on facts.

Thats not the average round trip fare! The average roundtrip is $390.



"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."- HF
User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
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Quoting Flytravel (Reply 12):
I would have thought B6 would venture PHL-FLL before PHL-SJU and maybe just increase frequency like 2x daily on EWR-SJU.

Camden, NJ, which has a large Puerto Rican contingent, is right in the middle between the PHL and EWR airports. Many could use either/or.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 57):
Camden, NJ, which has a large Puerto Rican contingent, is right in the middle between the PHL and EWR airports. Many could use either/or.

That is a whole lot closer to PHL


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 59, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 53):
anyway the average fare is $195 one-way.

Where do you find that?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 60, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 57):
Camden, NJ, which has a large Puerto Rican contingent, is right in the middle between the PHL and EWR airports.

Camden is about 10 miles from PHL and 90 miles from EWR. Perhaps you were thinking of Trenton which also has a large Puerto Rican population and is halfway between PHL and EWR.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 61, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

I have to say i cant believe that they even consider PHL when they haven't even started service. Then to add to it look at all the capacity US has( A333 767 A319 752) B6 doesn't even start until May 23 and we have no clue if this route will do well up against 18X daily US flights

I think SWA would stand a better chance


Best Regards


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