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DL Restarting ATL-ONT  
User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

Service restarts 6/10 with a daily 738. Good to see ONT getting more service after losing so much.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

Wow...some good news for ONT for once and an airport that desperately needs it too.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6291 times:

Is this just a seasonal (summer) re-start or is it permanent? In any case, I too am happy to see something positive happening at ONT for a change!

bb


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Awesome! They already fly to the city seems like a good move even if its only worth it seasonally

User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 789 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5926 times:
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Quoting kkephart13 (Thread starter):
Service restarts 6/10 with a daily 738.

This was a popular route at one time. During the mid 80s, Eastern had a SAN-ONT-ATL flight
on a 757. About an hour after that flight landed in ONT from SAN, Delta stopped in ONT from
SAN with a 762. That flight also continued to ATL.



PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25077 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

Filling the flight is not the issue, DL always had decent loads, but instead its a matter of the revenue they can get.
As one can imagine ONT will not drive the same premiums one can generate over at LAX due to the nature of its traffic mix.


Btw - this is not the sole new(resumed) route at ONT this year. SWA brought ONT-RNO back two weeks ago.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinepremobrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

I'm waiting for DL to start MSP-ONT. NW had this route for so long


Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5688 times:

Seasonal for approximately nine weeks.


a.
User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

Loved the Song 757s a few years ago flying to Ontario. That's the closest commercial airport to me so I use it a lot.

User currently offlinefanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

We used to have 757 service SLC-ONT back in the late 90s. now just CRJs  


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlinefjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 607 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

As recently as 2007 ONT had MD-90 and 737-800's to SLC, I know because I flew on a few.


Go Blue!!
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

In addition, ATL-ONT had a daily 767-300 on the route until about 2005. Either way, good news for ONT, glad to see it back!


Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Well for the few months it lasts, it will be a positive thing to be able to get to Europe, South America, and even Dubai, Lagos, and Johannesburg with just one connection. It also opens up over 100 destinations in the Eastern US which DL just can't service from SLC.

There still is one mainline SLC but I don't know if it is daily. It looks like there will be 2 mainline for summer/fall.

The WN service to RNO is also seasonal and ends mid-March.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5305 times:

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 9):
We used to have 757 service SLC-ONT back in the late 90s. now just CRJs

SLC-ONT has 1 738 daily. The other 3 are mixtures of CRJ's.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):
Seasonal for approximately nine weeks.

I Saw that, thats the only downside. i was looking at flights from PIT-ONT in October for a family function, and its all PIT-ATL-SLC-ONT. Sucks....


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Flew ONT-ATL on a 762 back in March of 05...full red-eye flight. Glad to see some resuscitation of the Inland Empire air traffic

User currently offlineMDW22L31C From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 213 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

It would be great see UA re-start ONT-ORD.

User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying. Also, ontario's parking lot situation is excellent. They also have a cell phone waiting lot!

User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 15):
It would be great see UA re-start ONT-ORD.

I wonder if AA would consider it with the E175s? I believe AA used to do it with an 80 or perhaps a fokker.


User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying. Also, ontario's parking lot situation is excellent. They also have a cell phone waiting lot!

Your right with the parking situation, but its killer expensive. The lots across the terminal are like 20+ a day...


User currently offlineKC135Hydraulics From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 18):

Yes but long term parking is only $8/ day and it has a shuttle. Better still the wife drops me off and picks me up and that costs $0/day. Ontario simply rocks.


User currently offlinedtwlax From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying. Also, ontario's parking lot situation is excellent. They also have a cell phone waiting lot!

Excellent alternative for people from the Inland Empire. But with LAX and SNA, ONT cannot compete.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Wow, I guess DL's ATL-ONT route actually did go [summer] seasonal; rather than getting cut entirely. Hopefully the return of this, and WN's recent addition of seasonal ONT-RNO, are signs that things are starting to get better - or at the very least, not continuing to get worse - in the Inland Empire. In fact, this recent article indeed states that the area is slowly but steadily getting better after its calamitous economic decline from the housing crisis and recession:

http://www.mydesert.com/article/2013...s-economy-slowly-creating-new-jobs

ONT is a beautiful facility, and truly the only existing major commercial airport in Greater Los Angeles that can support much in the way of future growth. Whilst fellow secondary area airport BUR continues its precipitous decline, it seems ONT's fortunes have finally begun to improve. It doesn't seem like AS has any interest in offering ONT-Hawaii service, but I wonder if WN will consider it. I also wonder if Mexicans LCCs, particularly WN's transborder partner Y4, have looked at serving this airport, or if ULCCs like F9 and/or NK might be interested. Hopefully the worst is behind ONT and the future is bright: regardless of who manages/controls the airport!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 21):
Wow, I guess DL's ATL-ONT route actually did go [summer] seasonal; rather than getting cut entirely. Hopefully the return of this, and WN's recent addition of seasonal ONT-RNO, are signs that things are starting to get better - or at the very least, not continuing to get worse - in the Inland Empire. In fact, this recent article indeed states that the area is slowly but steadily getting better after its calamitous economic decline from the housing crisis and recession:

Your right. Hopefully they go from seasonal to year round service.

However wasnt there talk at one point that LAWA was going to consolidate everyone over to T-4 and close T-2??


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

On a side note to this subject, I don't get why LAWA gets so much flak for ONT's performance. LAWA has invested millions upon millions and built a really lovely new terminal complex, in the hopes of driving traffic. During the heady 90s and early Aughts, ONT's traffic was doing great. The combination of the severe economic hit the Inland Empire has taken, along with the new realities for airlines in the last 12 years, means that ONT isn't going anywhere from where it is until the economic structure around it changes.

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 4):
This was a popular route at one time. During the mid 80s, Eastern had a SAN-ONT-ATL flight on a 757. About an hour after that flight landed in ONT from SAN, Delta stopped in ONT from
SAN with a 762. That flight also continued to ATL.

DL had 767s on ATL-ONT through into the middle of the last decade, at least. Indeed, they used to use the only jetway at ONT for it when the old terminals were still in use.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
As one can imagine ONT will not drive the same premiums one can generate over at LAX due to the nature of its traffic mix.

Absolutely. Its discount alternative pull from SAN, SNA and BUR, and local traffic that tends to be lower yield.

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX.

For you, perhaps. And it is a lovely airport, that LAWA built, though I miss the stained glass window from the old terminals.

For much of the area, ONT is as isolated or even more isolated than SNA - which is surrounded by wealthy people and a good number of businesses. Most of the higher yield traffic that look at alternatives to LAX will go to SNA, BUR or even SBA.

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
I still don't understand why it has been dying.

Not enough money in the area to drive yields. And its far.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 20):
Excellent alternative for people from the Inland Empire. But with LAX and SNA, ONT cannot compete.

Don't forget BUR, which is close to a lot of an area that would consider ONT an alternative to LAX. Far better yield mix at BUR.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 22):
However wasnt there talk at one point that LAWA was going to consolidate everyone over to T-4 and close T-2??

That wouldn't make a ton of sense, as LAWA's master plan includes 2 additional terminals if ONT can ever get the traffic. Makes no sense to mothball a perfectly usable building.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2683 times:
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Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 75
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare.

Why, when DL has LAX service?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 17):
Quoting MDW22L31C (Reply 15):
It would be great see UA re-start ONT-ORD.

I wonder if AA would consider it with the E175s? I believe AA used to do it with an 80 or perhaps a fokker.

Both AA and UA have operated the route in the past. Back in 1985 when I was just a kid we went from BOS-ONT on AA via ORD, and I remember getting stuck in ground traffic after landing in ORD. The taxi in was so bad we had to sprint from K to H to make our connection. We did luckily, but our bags didn't. I believe it was on an MD-80 back then. Can't remember if UA ran this with a 727 or a 737 though.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3052 posts, RR: 7
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2631 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Quoting psa1011 (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare.

Why, when DL has LAX service?

So. DL has SEA-HNL service and so does AS. DL has (or did have) SFO-HNL but that didn't stop AS from adding OAK and SJC to Hawaii.

ONT is quite a bit away from LAX. Not everyone wants to drive and pay to park when there is an airport nearby. That area supports a large population base. I think AS could be successful with ONT-Hawaii.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 27):
DL has (or did have) SFO-HNL but that didn't stop AS from adding OAK and SJC to Hawaii.

Delta still has 1 flight between SFO-HNL....think its a 752



yep.
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting kkephart13 (Thread starter):
Service restarts 6/10 with a daily 738.

Is it really a "restart"? Maybe just consider it a on/off again seasonal flight? I was on DL ONT-ATL last December.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9321 posts, RR: 14
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 29):

Is it really a "restart"? Maybe just consider it a on/off again seasonal flight? I was on DL ONT-ATL last December.

pretty much this. It was always seasonal.

Of course, I can think of tons of times that routes have gone "seasonal" to never come back, with any airline.



yep.
User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 26):
Can't remember if UA ran this with a 727 or a 737 though.

ORD-ONT was 4x 733, or sometimes 3x 733 and 1x 722. I remember this being 5x a day in the mid 1990s (at a time when AA also flew 4-5x and WN 1x to MDW), but I can't find anything to back that up.

Quoting kkephart13 (Reply 22):
However wasnt there talk at one point that LAWA was going to consolidate everyone over to T-4 and close T-2??

LAWA proposed this in 2009 or maybe early 2010, but the airlines did not want to because they thought that it would cost more to move out of T2 and then back in when the recession ended. Maybe they only thought the recession would last a few months. Additionally, there would have been UA, DL, and CO moving, and there wasn't ticket counter space in T4 for all of them to squeeze in with WN, US, and AA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
LAWA's master plan includes 2 additional terminals

Those aren't on anyone's radar anymore.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Don't forget BUR, which is close to a lot of an area that would consider ONT an alternative to LAX. Far better yield mix at BUR.

Deciding between BUR and ONT would depend on where you live or work. They are 50 miles apart. ONT is the busier airport so BUR offers little for anyone that lives closer to ONT, and passengers don't care about the yield.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2107 times:

AA flew ONT-JFK w/757 to keep b6 at bay, also DFW-ONT 757 in 93, SJC & ORD with MD80, SMF & OAK with 732 after they bought AirCal.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 16):
Ontario really is an excellent alternative to LAX. I still don't understand why it has been dying.

If there were numerous options from ONT, I think people would eventually use them again, but I think it's really a ketch 22.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 24):
Any chance of AS starting ONT-HNL/OGG? DL could codeshare

I think if AS had though it to be a viable market, they would be operating flights by now. I see ONT as a good option for G4 to HNL and/or OGG. It's too bad that ONT isn't really a viable alternate to the touristy area of Los Angeles, and is hard to market it as such. Otherwise I'd think high density charters from Europe and Asia with 2-3 x weekly schedule on 744's would work. If that was the case, I'd speculate we could have a ULCC with a decent-significant presence as well. It'll come back.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25077 posts, RR: 46
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 27):
ONT is quite a bit away from LAX. Not everyone wants to drive and pay to park when there is an airport nearby. That area supports a large population base. I think AS could be successful with ONT-Hawaii.

It been tried and failed about 6 times.

Way back early 1980s UA tried with its DC-8-70s.

Then in the 1990s ATA on L-1011s.

Then in 2003 Hawaiian tried ONT and only lasted 2-years.

Aloha also almost moved in, but instead settled on SNA and BUR.

And finally ATA tried it again with a daily 737 in cooperation with Southwest in 2006. That also only lasted 1-year

Considering all these were in better economically booming times for the inland empire, I'm sure things would be even worse today.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 31):
LAWA proposed this in 2009 or maybe early 2010, but the airlines did not want to because they thought that it would cost more to move out of T2 and then back in when the recession ended.

  

In response to way to reduce per passenger cost at ONT, LAWA proposed consolidating all operations under a single roof.

There would have been substantial savings (~20%) by using a single terminal. Everything from TSA cost, to utility charges would have seen reductions without using the second terminal.

At the time airlines came out against the proposal. In hindsight it would probably have been a good action as enplanement have continued to decline.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3052 posts, RR: 7
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
Way back early 1980s UA tried with its DC-8-70s.

Yeah, I remember that. I think they tried it in the late 1970s with DC-8-50s also, around the time UA added SJC and OAK-HNL on DC-8-50s.

HA couldn't make it work with 767s, but AS might make it work with 738s. They should try it.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25077 posts, RR: 46
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

ATA ran 738s. Even with the help of Southwest connections, and tour packages the route flopped for them in a year.

I would not underestimate the economic realities of the Inland Empire and its negative effects on disposable consumer spending for air travel. No need to AS to look there. If they want a SoCal airport to do Hawaii, the economics would be much more compelling at SNA or BUR.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3185 posts, RR: 5
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 35):
HA couldn't make it work with 767s

I thought it was on the DC-10's....

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
No need to AS to look there. If they want a SoCal airport to do Hawaii, the economics would be much more compelling at SNA or BUR.

Except the 737-800 couldn't do it economically from either field. Last time I took a 738 to Hawaii, we took a big long take off roll, at sea level and in 40 degree temps, the 738 needs a long run to get off the ground full with people, cargo & fuel.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25077 posts, RR: 46
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
I thought it was on the DC-10's....

767

Its mentioned in their press release about the added ONT-LAS tag.
http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...l-newsArticle&ID=378158&highlight=

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
Except the 737-800 couldn't do it economically from either field. Last time I took a 738 to Hawaii, we took a big long take off roll, at sea level and in 40 degree temps, the 738 needs a long run to get off the ground full with people, cargo & fuel.

Who said -800?
If AS really wants a LA basin launch board such as SNA or BUR, they can invest in ETOPS the -700 fleet.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3052 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
Who said -800?
If AS really wants a LA basin launch board such as SNA or BUR, they can invest in ETOPS the -700 fleet.

They can, but apparently AS considered it and made a business decision not to do. I think SNA-Hawaii would be a good route for AS if they had the equipment for it.


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