olddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 336 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14317 times:
I think the new Republic business aka American Eagle to run EMB175's shows that US & AA are forging every closer to a done deal. The niche of the 75 seat aircraft has long been needed in AMR's portfolio. Could this just be a preparation of a post bankruptcy exit? Not to mention the new disastrous AA scheme that looks like it evolutioned as a third grader's school art project from art app on their iPhone.
There were MANY other contenders on A.net alone that were a thousand times better, just more refreshed while modernized and distinctly AA. I am hoping this scheme is a lot like the Delta waves or the one before it, until it finally found this crisp and professional scheme.
The image probably looks better on a 738 and 32X, but their 777's nope!
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14205 times:
I think the E-Jet order was mere necessity that we all agreed was something AA had to do going forward. So IMO it was more bk-related than US merger-related. As I said a couple days ago, if anything they'd be less likely to place an E-Jet order if they were close to inking a merger with US, because they (the combined airline) could then utilize US's extensive E-Jet fleet where necessary (ORD, LAX, DFW, maybe some JFK connections deemed premium-heavy enough) as UA/CO did in the early days and continue today. Republic flies pretty much everyone's non-190 E-Jets except for CP so a Republic deal doesn't tell us much that we didn't already know -- AA desperately needed something in that range.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 720 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14204 times:
I sincerely hope this merger does NOT happen. They are both good as separate airlines and I really don't want prices to get even higher if they eliminate another competitor.
I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.
LDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 752 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14205 times:
Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter): There were MANY other contenders on A.net alone that were a thousand times better, just more refreshed while modernized and distinctly AA. I am hoping this scheme is a lot like the Delta waves or the one before it, until it finally found this crisp and professional scheme.
Those schemes were not a thousand times better. The ones with the swoopy/curvy lines and eagle ignored all the design principles upon which the AA brand is based. (The AA brand has never featured swoopy or curvy lines.) The ones which reused the scissor eagle did nothing to modernize the brand. (The scissor eagle and its geometry are outdated.).
In general, the schemes presented here did nothing to refresh the brand. This was most evident in terms of color. Leave it to the professionals not only to get the color right, but to take inspiration from how colors are now reflected by LED lights.
tsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14034 times:
If there is a merger, it will happen after AA exits bankruptcy, and it will be AA acquiring US, not the other way around. AA is going to come out of bankruptcy with a better cost structure, a new brand image (which, admittedly, I don't like), and tons of new planes. They will be a force to be reckoned with.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13995 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2): I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.
Hardly. I'm not going to start a war between the alliances here, but OW is nowhere near a global monopoly. Both SkyTeam and Star have plenty of valuable assets OW is not close to getting. OW is making strides and expanding beyond their traditional strongholds like NYC-LHR but Star and SkyTeam have plenty to be happy about themselves.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13940 times:
Actually I think the Republic contract signals the reverse. That AA is strongly moving away from a possible merger with US Airways.
That the board and management are firmly moving toward emerging from bankruptcy alone and in charge of AA.
Now down the road, AA might purchase US Airways much as it did TWA. That's the only type 'merger' I see in the future.
BD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13908 times:
Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter): I think the new Republic business aka American Eagle to run EMB175's shows that US & AA are forging every closer to a done deal
or that 'standalone' AA has reached agreement with pilot groups for such a size aircraft in the fleet mix??
I highly doubt any specific aircraft order by a third party entity is any predictor to any merger. Not to say a merger won't happen at sometime but I suspect this wouldn't be the way to 'announce' it. Mergers are all about creating shareholder value and cost effective delivery of the service to achieve that, there are some on a.net who seem to think a merger hangs on A having X engines and B have Y engines etc....and that would clinch/scupper the deal
Aerowrench From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13726 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2): I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.
Feeling sorry for a conglomeration of corporations...
ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13325 times:
I believe it was airline industry analyst Mike Boyd who said some time ago that AA doesn't need US, but US needs AA. Doug Parker has been making nice with AA's unions, in order to put pressure on AA management and creditors/future shareholders to do a deal.
Considering that US can't get a new contract with its F/As, and the former US and HP pilots can't work out a merger of the two seniority lists, why do we think that merging AA into a less-than-ideal labor situtation will make for one big happy family?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. AA may need a new CEO and senior management team. I'm not a big Horton fan, but I don't think he has done anything that shows he can't run AA. Yes, he got the bankruptcy court to throw out the pilot contract. But, you can't tell me that Bob Crandall and Don Carty wouldn't have done the same, based on their history of labor relations.
I know AA employees who now realize how good of a CEO Crandall was, despite his hard-nosed attitude in labor relations. But, the management culture at AA has not turned out outstanding CEOs, based on the recoreds of Carty, Arpey, and Horton.
So, why turn to another CEO who got his start at AA? Business professors will tell you that the first job has a significant influence on the style of managers and executives. I really don't think Parker is going to be the leader that Crandall was, nor do I think he will get along better with labor, when compared to the last 4 CEOs of AA.
If the employees want someone who will treat AA employees with the respect they deserve, then hire a senior executive from Southwest. I can't recall Southwest every going on strike, and most employees seem to feel that management respects them are fairly compensates them for the work they do.
AA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 357 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13107 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6): Actually I think the Republic contract signals the reverse. That AA is strongly moving away from a possible merger with US Airways.
That the board and management are firmly moving toward emerging from bankruptcy alone and in charge of AA.
Quoting BD338 (Reply 7): or that 'standalone' AA has reached agreement with pilot groups for such a size aircraft in the fleet mix??
This is progress, and something that AA has long needed. If anything, it shows that AA is finally getting themselves in order in almost every aspect of business, and that a merger with US continues to grow more distant.
Quoting ckfred (Reply 9): Considering that US can't get a new contract with its F/As, and the former US and HP pilots can't work out a merger of the two seniority lists, why do we think that merging AA into a less-than-ideal labor situtation will make for one big happy family?
This is the question that many have been asking throughout the entire bankruptcy process, and no one seems to have a good answer. My answer: it will create a hellish chaos that benefits no one (except DP, of course).
Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
DL WIDGET HEAD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2040 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12750 times:
Looks like a merger might be finalized in the next two weeks.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4006 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12591 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2): I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.
To be fair, as far as Star is concerned US isn't really much of a member anyway. The only thing US bring to the table are connection opportunities in the southeastern United States (and maybe the shuttle service), and they are not part of any of the JV agreements across either pond.
Similarly with BMI, the biggest loss there were the LHR slots. But honestly, with the FRA stronghold, LHR doesn't play that important of a role in the Star network. Their main weak points are South America and to a lesser extent, China/India.
PI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 599 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12220 times:
I am frankly getting tired of this thread, but do want to Thank ckfred for a very sensible and balanced analysis of this subject. He expressed how many of us feel, and on the heels of what DL WIDGET HEAD posted that the issue is still "up in the air", I can only hope that AA remains a standalone airline rich in history and innovation, and with a renewed spirit to be the best airline in the U.S.
Come on people at AA. Fight for your Company and your future.
And. Watch what you want. You may get it.
Thomas
EASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 384 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11994 times:
Honest to God! I think all the airlines should throw away their management and just their airlines be run by a-netters. They certainly know more than the folks working at corporate offices. MHO TIC
FOKKERF28 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 151 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11996 times:
UA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 291 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10624 times:
While I think there is a good chance of the merger (though I hope not), how does an airline's express sub-contractor running another aircraft type signify a merger?
This has gotten waaaayyy out of hand. In two weeks, we will say "An AA 737 Landed at PHL and taxiied past the US airways concourse! They are going to merge."
PDX88 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 88 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10038 times:
Sorry, but I'm getting sick of the new AA scheme getting bashed in so many different threads. Don't start a thread about the AA/US merger rumor but have 2/3 of your original post doing nothing but slamming the new livery, it's completely unrelated.
avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4092 posts, RR: 18 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9282 times:
I just assume that if a AA/US merger is announced, it wil feature a revised livery using the body of the new AA livery, and the existing US tail, with the blue and red tints in the eagle and the tail made to match.
capitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 255 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7254 times:
Capt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 648 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7051 times:
American has poised itself to emerge from bankruptcy revitalized.
If a merger were in fact imminent, I do not foresee American as emerging; rather just transitioning.
Mega-mergers do not produce better airlines: Just bigger ones.
Merging with US Airways will create a different -not a renewed- airline with additional problems to sort out and mend.
I hope that American's restructuring plan is given time to breathe on its own.
warden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6401 times:
Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 23): Mega-mergers do not produce better airlines: Just bigger ones.
Merging with US Airways will create a different -not a renewed- airline with additional problems to sort out and mend.
I hope that American's restructuring plan is given time to breathe on its own.
Thank you! It seems to me that AA can survive on its own once the restructuring's complete, and I would actually contend that we already have too few airlines in the U.S. (I opposed the DL / NW and the UA / CO mergers for the same reasons), Merging and "right-sizing" might make the most business sense, but fewer choices make this a less than ideal scenario for consumers.
I sincerely and very strongly hope that AA and US end up independent of one another!
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
25 LHCVG: And Republic already owns a good number of the E-Jets they fly, my point being that a Republic order (even if earmarked for new AA service) doesn't m
26 AAplat4life: The AMR creditors are obviously taking a very serious look at management's business plan and comparing it with a merger. They will decide what to do b
27 yellowtail: That has been going on for a while....I have seen AAs website offer US and DL flights occaisionally for the last few years
28 jAAy757: This topic has been on going for the past year, frankly I do not believe a merger will occur on US Airways terms. I also believe Tom Horton is capable
29 PanAmPaul: I tend to agree. While it was vaguely plausible when AA went into bankruptcy court, it is a very different company now. Unlike past airline bankruptc
30 bobloblaw: It signals neither of the two. Not a single post shows what the E175 order means......IT MEANS AA IS COMMITTED TO CHICAGO. This is where the E175 is
31 AAIL86: The opening statements in your post above are spot on, but we cannot make a long term projection of AMR's future viability based on 4Q '12 results. A
32 bobloblaw: Why? Just because UA/CO did it? Delta didnt adopt a think from NW for the color scheme. CO had a large presence in Latin America and NYC. US is pissa
33 STT757: Doesn't matter how much cash they went in with, what matters is how much of that is unrestricted cash. AA's pretty much mortgage all their assets to
34 seatback: You would think RP would move forward with caution and not order any airplanes until they know who is going to be in charge. Because if it is Doug an
35 mariner: Republic has such a close relationship with US the reverse might be true. mariner
36 jAAy757: This is exactly how I feel, yes, employees don't like him, but he has done very well for the company through the BK process. Very productive.
37 avek00: No, because the new AA tail design is fugly and the use of the US flag with slight tweaking makes the new livery rather nice.
40 n471wn: I am an old man but I learned something new today!!
41 AAplat4life: I've recently read two articles that commented on how AMR's revenue per passenger mile--a key element of profitability in this business--is still lag
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