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Sign Of Imminent Merger Between AA/US?  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15414 times:

I think the new Republic business aka American Eagle to run EMB175's shows that US & AA are forging every closer to a done deal. The niche of the 75 seat aircraft has long been needed in AMR's portfolio. Could this just be a preparation of a post bankruptcy exit? Not to mention the new disastrous AA scheme that looks like it evolutioned as a third grader's school art project from art app on their iPhone.

There were MANY other contenders on A.net alone that were a thousand times better, just more refreshed while modernized and distinctly AA. I am hoping this scheme is a lot like the Delta waves or the one before it, until it finally found this crisp and professional scheme.

The image probably looks better on a 738 and 32X, but their 777's nope!

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15302 times:

I think the E-Jet order was mere necessity that we all agreed was something AA had to do going forward. So IMO it was more bk-related than US merger-related. As I said a couple days ago, if anything they'd be less likely to place an E-Jet order if they were close to inking a merger with US, because they (the combined airline) could then utilize US's extensive E-Jet fleet where necessary (ORD, LAX, DFW, maybe some JFK connections deemed premium-heavy enough) as UA/CO did in the early days and continue today. Republic flies pretty much everyone's non-190 E-Jets except for CP so a Republic deal doesn't tell us much that we didn't already know -- AA desperately needed something in that range.

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2931 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15301 times:
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I sincerely hope this merger does NOT happen. They are both good as separate airlines and I really don't want prices to get even higher if they eliminate another competitor.

I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1045 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15302 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
There were MANY other contenders on A.net alone that were a thousand times better, just more refreshed while modernized and distinctly AA. I am hoping this scheme is a lot like the Delta waves or the one before it, until it finally found this crisp and professional scheme.

Those schemes were not a thousand times better. The ones with the swoopy/curvy lines and eagle ignored all the design principles upon which the AA brand is based. (The AA brand has never featured swoopy or curvy lines.) The ones which reused the scissor eagle did nothing to modernize the brand. (The scissor eagle and its geometry are outdated.).

In general, the schemes presented here did nothing to refresh the brand. This was most evident in terms of color. Leave it to the professionals not only to get the color right, but to take inspiration from how colors are now reflected by LED lights.


User currently offlinetsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15131 times:

If there is a merger, it will happen after AA exits bankruptcy, and it will be AA acquiring US, not the other way around. AA is going to come out of bankruptcy with a better cost structure, a new brand image (which, admittedly, I don't like), and tons of new planes. They will be a force to be reckoned with.

User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15092 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.

Hardly. I'm not going to start a war between the alliances here, but OW is nowhere near a global monopoly. Both SkyTeam and Star have plenty of valuable assets OW is not close to getting. OW is making strides and expanding beyond their traditional strongholds like NYC-LHR but Star and SkyTeam have plenty to be happy about themselves.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7571 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15037 times:

Actually I think the Republic contract signals the reverse. That AA is strongly moving away from a possible merger with US Airways.

That the board and management are firmly moving toward emerging from bankruptcy alone and in charge of AA.

Now down the road, AA might purchase US Airways much as it did TWA. That's the only type 'merger' I see in the future.


User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15005 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I think the new Republic business aka American Eagle to run EMB175's shows that US & AA are forging every closer to a done deal

or that 'standalone' AA has reached agreement with pilot groups for such a size aircraft in the fleet mix??

I highly doubt any specific aircraft order by a third party entity is any predictor to any merger. Not to say a merger won't happen at sometime but I suspect this wouldn't be the way to 'announce' it. Mergers are all about creating shareholder value and cost effective delivery of the service to achieve that, there are some on a.net who seem to think a merger hangs on A having X engines and B have Y engines etc....and that would clinch/scupper the deal  


User currently offlineAerowrench From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 14823 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.

Feeling sorry for a conglomeration of corporations...   


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5169 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day ago) and read 14422 times:

I believe it was airline industry analyst Mike Boyd who said some time ago that AA doesn't need US, but US needs AA. Doug Parker has been making nice with AA's unions, in order to put pressure on AA management and creditors/future shareholders to do a deal.

Considering that US can't get a new contract with its F/As, and the former US and HP pilots can't work out a merger of the two seniority lists, why do we think that merging AA into a less-than-ideal labor situtation will make for one big happy family?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. AA may need a new CEO and senior management team. I'm not a big Horton fan, but I don't think he has done anything that shows he can't run AA. Yes, he got the bankruptcy court to throw out the pilot contract. But, you can't tell me that Bob Crandall and Don Carty wouldn't have done the same, based on their history of labor relations.

I know AA employees who now realize how good of a CEO Crandall was, despite his hard-nosed attitude in labor relations. But, the management culture at AA has not turned out outstanding CEOs, based on the recoreds of Carty, Arpey, and Horton.

So, why turn to another CEO who got his start at AA? Business professors will tell you that the first job has a significant influence on the style of managers and executives. I really don't think Parker is going to be the leader that Crandall was, nor do I think he will get along better with labor, when compared to the last 4 CEOs of AA.

If the employees want someone who will treat AA employees with the respect they deserve, then hire a senior executive from Southwest. I can't recall Southwest every going on strike, and most employees seem to feel that management respects them are fairly compensates them for the work they do.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day ago) and read 14204 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
Actually I think the Republic contract signals the reverse. That AA is strongly moving away from a possible merger with US Airways.

That the board and management are firmly moving toward emerging from bankruptcy alone and in charge of AA.
Quoting BD338 (Reply 7):
or that 'standalone' AA has reached agreement with pilot groups for such a size aircraft in the fleet mix??

  

This is progress, and something that AA has long needed. If anything, it shows that AA is finally getting themselves in order in almost every aspect of business, and that a merger with US continues to grow more distant.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 9):
Considering that US can't get a new contract with its F/As, and the former US and HP pilots can't work out a merger of the two seniority lists, why do we think that merging AA into a less-than-ideal labor situtation will make for one big happy family?

This is the question that many have been asking throughout the entire bankruptcy process, and no one seems to have a good answer. My answer: it will create a hellish chaos that benefits no one (except DP, of course).



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineDL WIDGET HEAD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2084 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 13847 times:

Looks like a merger might be finalized in the next two weeks.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...RSS&feedName=bankruptcyNews&rpc=43


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 13688 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
I also feel bad for Star Alliance in all of this. Recently they've lost. BMI and maybe US, while OneWorld j ust keeps growing. If this trend continues, a global monopoly will not be too far fetched.

To be fair, as far as Star is concerned US isn't really much of a member anyway. The only thing US bring to the table are connection opportunities in the southeastern United States (and maybe the shuttle service), and they are not part of any of the JV agreements across either pond.

Similarly with BMI, the biggest loss there were the LHR slots. But honestly, with the FRA stronghold, LHR doesn't play that important of a role in the Star network. Their main weak points are South America and to a lesser extent, China/India.


User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 13317 times:
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I am frankly getting tired of this thread, but do want to Thank ckfred for a very sensible and balanced analysis of this subject. He expressed how many of us feel, and on the heels of what DL WIDGET HEAD posted that the issue is still "up in the air", I can only hope that AA remains a standalone airline rich in history and innovation, and with a renewed spirit to be the best airline in the U.S.
Come on people at AA. Fight for your Company and your future.
And. Watch what you want. You may get it.
Thomas



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 13091 times:

Honest to God! I think all the airlines should throw away their management and just their airlines be run by a-netters. They certainly know more than the folks working at corporate offices. MHO TIC

User currently offlineFOKKERF28 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 13093 times:
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Merger deal looks very possible now....


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-air-amr-merger-deal-210030944.html


User currently offlineUA787DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 11721 times:

While I think there is a good chance of the merger (though I hope not), how does an airline's express sub-contractor running another aircraft type signify a merger?

This has gotten waaaayyy out of hand. In two weeks, we will say "An AA 737 Landed at PHL and taxiied past the US airways concourse! They are going to merge."


User currently offlinePDX88 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 20 hours ago) and read 11135 times:

Sorry, but I'm getting sick of the new AA scheme getting bashed in so many different threads. Don't start a thread about the AA/US merger rumor but have 2/3 of your original post doing nothing but slamming the new livery, it's completely unrelated.

[Edited 2013-01-25 16:42:54]

User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 19 hours ago) and read 10379 times:

I just assume that if a AA/US merger is announced, it wil feature a revised livery using the body of the new AA livery, and the existing US tail, with the blue and red tints in the eagle and the tail made to match.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineMeanGreen From United States of America, joined May 2006, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 9056 times:

I was pricing tickets on AA.com in June and was surprised when us airways flights through CLT were offered for my return!

User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 8858 times:

Quoting tsugambler (Reply 4):
If there is a merger, it will happen after AA exits bankruptcy, and it will be AA acquiring US, not the other way around

I would not be so sure of that. What a difference a week can make.


User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 20):
What a difference a week can make.

What differences are you thinking of in particular?


User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 8351 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 1):
Republic flies pretty much everyone's non-190 E-Jets

Yes but Republic purchased these jets.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republ...s-buys-jets-brazils-151135678.html


User currently offlineCapt.Fantastic From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

American has poised itself to emerge from bankruptcy revitalized.
If a merger were in fact imminent, I do not foresee American as emerging; rather just transitioning.
Mega-mergers do not produce better airlines: Just bigger ones.
Merging with US Airways will create a different -not a renewed- airline with additional problems to sort out and mend.
I hope that American's restructuring plan is given time to breathe on its own.


User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 7498 times:

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 23):
Mega-mergers do not produce better airlines: Just bigger ones.
Merging with US Airways will create a different -not a renewed- airline with additional problems to sort out and mend.
I hope that American's restructuring plan is given time to breathe on its own.

   Thank you! It seems to me that AA can survive on its own once the restructuring's complete, and I would actually contend that we already have too few airlines in the U.S. (I opposed the DL / NW and the UA / CO mergers for the same reasons), Merging and "right-sizing" might make the most business sense, but fewer choices make this a less than ideal scenario for consumers.

I sincerely and very strongly hope that AA and US end up independent of one another!



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 22):
Yes but Republic purchased these jets.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republ....html

And Republic already owns a good number of the E-Jets they fly, my point being that a Republic order (even if earmarked for new AA service) doesn't mean anything at all in relation to a US merger because they are the main E-Jet operator in the U.S. these days.


User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 5 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

The AMR creditors are obviously taking a very serious look at management's business plan and comparing it with a merger. They will decide what to do based on a very thorough analysis. I do think that AA has a better restructuring plan than did Delta or United, but that does not mean the creditors will prefer it over a merger. Besides much of the restructuring plan will still be there after the merger, so the new AMR owners could get the best of both worlds. US is now a profitable operation. Based on last quarter's results, AMR is still not profitable even after restructuring accomplishments have been put in place. The AMR stakeholders may not get such a good deal with US post-bankruptcy, and so they must feel that there is a lot of opportunity with a merger. Otherwise, they would have flat out rejected it by now.

User currently onlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting MeanGreen (Reply 19):
I was pricing tickets on AA.com in June and was surprised when us airways flights through CLT were offered for my return!

That has been going on for a while....I have seen AAs website offer US and DL flights occaisionally for the last few years



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinejAAy757 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 5292 times:

This topic has been on going for the past year, frankly I do not believe a merger will occur on US Airways terms. I also believe Tom Horton is capable of running American, though the unions may not be a fan of him, he has done a great job thus far of running the company in these tough times. Hundreds of planes on order, lowered labor cost, refocused route structure, redesigned plane interiors and exteriors and more to come I'm sure once the airline emerges. This is the refresh and vision the company needed.

I have no issue with US Airways, but US needs to remain US and American should remain American. Though if a merger does occur, I do not believe the smaller of the two should be buying out the larger.


User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

Quoting jAAy757 (Reply 28):
This topic has been on going for the past year, frankly I do not believe a merger will occur on US Airways terms.

I tend to agree. While it was vaguely plausible when AA went into bankruptcy court, it is a very different company now.

Unlike past airline bankruptcies, whether it was PA or UA or DL, AA went into the process with $4 billion in cash and now has $5 billion. It didn't even require debtor-in-possession financing.

That gives it a far different position in the negotiations today than even a year ago - and I am fairly confident that all of these issues are being examined carefully by AA's UCC and board.


User currently onlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 4951 times:
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Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I think the new Republic business aka American Eagle to run EMB175's shows that US & AA are forging every closer to a done deal.
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
Actually I think the Republic contract signals the reverse. That AA is strongly moving away from a possible merger with US Airways.

It signals neither of the two. Not a single post shows what the E175 order means......IT MEANS AA IS COMMITTED TO CHICAGO. This is where the E175 is needed most. Not in DFW, not in MIA. in ORD and in LGA to a lesser extent.

The E175 with 12 F seats and big overhead bins fills a void that AA needs to fill to compete with United in ORD between the ERJs and 738s. The E175 is perfect for east coast and midwest business markets from ORD.


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 4 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 26):
The AMR creditors are obviously taking a very serious look at management's business plan and comparing it with a merger. They will decide what to do based on a very thorough analysis. I do think that AA has a better restructuring plan than did Delta or United, but that does not mean the creditors will prefer it over a merger. Besides much of the restructuring plan will still be there after the merger, so the new AMR owners could get the best of both worlds. US is now a profitable operation. Based on last quarter's results, AMR is still not profitable even after restructuring accomplishments have been put in place.

The opening statements in your post above are spot on, but we cannot make a long term projection of AMR's future viability based on 4Q '12 results. After all, UA and DL (counting DL "special" items) both posted nasty little losses in the quarter. US actually had the best 4Q, surprise surprise. UA and DL are also going to feel the bite of AA's new financial "teeth" going forward. Grab the popcorn - it should be interesting to watch going forward  



Next
User currently onlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 4875 times:
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Quoting avek00 (Reply 18):
I just assume that if a AA/US merger is announced, it wil feature a revised livery using the body of the new AA livery, and the existing US tail, with the blue and red tints in the eagle and the tail made to match.

Why? Just because UA/CO did it? Delta didnt adopt a think from NW for the color scheme. CO had a large presence in Latin America and NYC. US is pissant.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16817 posts, RR: 51
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 29):
AA went into the process with $4 billion in cash and now has $5 billion. It didn't even require debtor-in-possession financing.

Doesn't matter how much cash they went in with, what matters is how much of that is unrestricted cash. AA's pretty much mortgage all their assets to come up with that cash.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
Actually I think the Republic contract signals the reverse. That AA is strongly moving away from a possible merger with US Airways.

You would think RP would move forward with caution and not order any airplanes until they know who is going to be in charge. Because if it is Doug and team, the deal could be off.

My bet is that Republic feels pretty confident that the current leadership at AA will be in charge in the event of a merger and therefore feels secure enough to place a large order.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 9):
I know AA employees who now realize how good of a CEO Crandall was, despite his hard-nosed attitude in labor relations. But, the management culture at AA has not turned out outstanding CEOs, based on the recoreds of Carty, Arpey, and Horton.

Putting the popularity index aside, I think Horton has done a great job in running AA through the BK process. Employees may not like him, but he's producing very good results.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24999 posts, RR: 85
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 3432 times:
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Quoting seatback (Reply 34):
You would think RP would move forward with caution and not order any airplanes until they know who is going to be in charge. Because if it is Doug and team, the deal could be off.

Republic has such a close relationship with US the reverse might be true.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejAAy757 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 3384 times:

Quoting seatback (Reply 34):
Putting the popularity index aside, I think Horton has done a great job in running AA through the BK process. Employees may not like him, but he's producing very good results.

   This is exactly how I feel, yes, employees don't like him, but he has done very well for the company through the BK process. Very productive.


User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 32):
Why? Just because UA/CO did it?

No, because the new AA tail design is fugly and the use of the US flag with slight tweaking makes the new livery rather nice.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 3321 times:
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Quoting avek00 (Reply 37):
No, because the new AA tail design is fugly and the use of the US flag with slight tweaking makes the new livery rather nice.

What is "fugly"?


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20375 posts, RR: 62
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 3304 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 38):
What is "fugly"?

F-word+ugly



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months ago) and read 3201 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 39):

F-word+ugly

I am an old man but I learned something new today!!


User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Quoting jAAy757 (Reply 36):
Putting the popularity index aside, I think Horton has done a great job in running AA through the BK process. Employees may not like him, but he's producing very good results.

This is exactly how I feel, yes, employees don't like him, but he has done very well for the company through the BK process. Very productive.

I've recently read two articles that commented on how AMR's revenue per passenger mile--a key element of profitability in this business--is still lagging its major competitors including US. This was in the Economist and the Dallas Morning News. http://www.dallasnews.com/business/c...lines-facelift-seems-skin-deep.ece

That is,although AMR improved, its competitors improved more. So this shows that despite all of the improvements, AMR is still not on the right track.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 39):
Quoting n471wn (Reply 38):
What is "fugly"?

F-word+ugly

As a sidenote, AC has an Embraer 190 registered C-FGLY.


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