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Air India Expansion And Reviews  
User currently offlineflybhx764 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 267 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6440 times:

I thought with the new aircrafts AI was getting they were looking to expand on routes, does anyone know what they are looking to fly and also I noticed on Skytrax that they are a 3 star airline. Do you think they can ever improve their product enough to become a 5 star airline some day.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

AI has everything to be successfull.....the problem is Political interference,excess and demotivated staff, too many freebees...... Privatization might help........

With the B787s grounded....another setback when things were starting to pick up.....hopefully no more pilot strikes.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6083 times:

All expansion is on hold right now, because the 6 Dreamliners in their fleet are grounded (along with all other 787s worldwide). When the Dreamliners are back in the air, MEL, SYD, NBO, and DAR are to be the first new cities.

Regarding SkyTrax, all the rankings are bullsh*t. A better way to compare relative quality of airlines is to read trip reports. For example, for Air India, there are these trip reports:

Air India AI 102: 14/FEB/08: JFK-DEL: Y Cabin (by Abrelosojos May 4 2008 in Trip Reports)
Air India 777-200LR JFK-DEL In C W/Pix (by MHTripple7 Jan 5 2009 in Trip Reports)
Air India 777-200LR DEL-JFK In J W/Pix (by MHTripple7 Jan 11 2009 in Trip Reports)
Air India AI 101: 17/JUN/09: CCU-DEL-JFK: J Cabin (by Abrelosojos Aug 4 2009 in Trip Reports)
First Time To Japan Part VII: AI KIX-HKG In F (by sutrakhk Sep 20 2010 in Trip Reports)
Welcome To Air India, Your Palace In The Sky (by aeroblogger Jun 22 2012 in Trip Reports)
AI 787 Dreamliner DEL-BLR (with Lots Of Pics!) (by justbala Sep 24 2012 in Trip Reports)
Dream Come True. DEL-BLR On AI 787 Dream)Liner (by vivekman2006 Oct 24 2012 in Trip Reports)

[Edited 2013-01-26 06:43:23]


Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6057 times:
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Also add that with the impending disposal of 5 77L models to the UAI they wouldn't have that much extra capacity for long haul expansion any time soon !

Further they are seeking a sell/lease back on the existing deliveries and any excuse to delay further 788 deliveries aren't they ?

Frankly AI and aviation in general across the sub continent remains far too effected by direct political interference.

The vested interests and levels of ineffectiveness are astonishing !


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3005 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6032 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting flybhx764 (Thread starter):

I thought with the new aircrafts AI was getting they were looking to expand on routes, does anyone know what they are looking to fly and also I noticed on Skytrax that they are a 3 star airline. Do you think they can ever improve their product enough to become a 5 star airline some day.

Quick reference suspect you are seeking something on the lines of resumption of BHX-ATQ- DEL/BOM operation .

- Its possible (never say never) at some point.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 3):
Further they are seeking a sell/lease back on the existing deliveries and any excuse to delay further 788 deliveries aren't they ?

The plan has always been to sale/leaseback the 787s. This won't have any effect on the schedule of deliveries.

AI has only had 1 excuse for delaying the 787 deliveries - Ministry of Finance won't let them use funds to pay for the aircraft. 2 months ago, Ministry of Finance has gotten out of the way, and no further delays are expected.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1969 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
2 months ago, Ministry of Finance has gotten out of the way, and no further delays are expected.

That is good news. AI/GOI been embarassing themselves even though there is bailout money for equipment aquisition. My thoughts GOI want to make AI work hard for their money, just as a political safety net. Public/opposition cannot say GOI wrote a blank check to AI. But in international arena it appears AI struggling to finance each 787.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

It may not happen but for this year AI have been approved to launch former stations Rome, Moscow, Nairobi, Kuala Lumpur and new ones Madrid, Barcelona, Najaf.

[Edited 2013-01-26 10:00:20]

User currently offline9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
It may not happen but for this year AI have been approved to launch former stations Rome, Moscow, Nairobi, Kuala Lumpur and new ones Madrid, Barcelona, Najaf.

These sound more like "AI/GoI staff favored vacation destinations" than actual business-driven "former stations." Really? MAD/BCN-India when not one carrier is on those routes? You think BA/IB would have let those slip through the crack if they thought they could make a few pounds there? What a joke...


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5694 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 6):
That is good news. AI/GOI been embarassing themselves even though there is bailout money for equipment aquisition. My thoughts GOI want to make AI work hard for their money, just as a political safety net. Public/opposition cannot say GOI wrote a blank check to AI. But in international arena it appears AI struggling to finance each 787.

This wasn't bailout money at play - it was AI's own funds.
All of AI's bank accounts are administered by the Ministry of Finance, since AI is a PSU. AI can't even pay its employees without getting approvals in triplicate from the MoF...

Quoting 777way (Reply 7):
It may not happen but for this year AI have been approved to launch former stations Rome, Moscow, Nairobi, Kuala Lumpur and new ones Madrid, Barcelona, Najaf.

Of these, Moscow, Nairobi, and Kuala Lumpur are the only ones which are likely.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5643 times:

What is it that hurts AI? International or domestic ops? How are they domestically now that Kingfisher been reduced to rubble...?

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 10):
What is it that hurts AI? International or domestic ops? How are they domestically now that Kingfisher been reduced to rubble...?

International ops is where they lose most of their money.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinespr773 From India, joined Jun 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 11):

Well on the domestic front the sad demise of KF has made it good for all the rest who are there. AI and 9W are the full carriers who are there in the game. Domestically AI has improved and have a lot of scope to be the top carrier with having 787s and a young 772/3 fleet. They have to cut costs and they will be "Maharajahs" once again.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

How is the B787 out of service affecting the schedule for AI.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
How is the B787 out of service affecting the schedule for AI.

The most effected flight seems the MAA-SIN service, which was seeing 2x daily 332 being used along with 1x daily BOM-SIN

Since the 330s are deployed elsewhere, the route is combined with BOM-MAA-SIN on a 744, and BOM-SIN has gone back to the 319s

Karan


User currently offlinecaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2725 times:

Is AI planning to make a go at the US west coast again? Whatever happened to that planned SFO flight?

User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Quoting spr773 (Reply 12):
Well on the domestic front the sad demise of KF has made it good for all the rest who are there. AI and 9W are the full carriers who are there in the game. Domestically AI has improved and have a lot of scope to be the top carrier with having 787s and a young 772/3 fleet. They have to cut costs and they will be "Maharajahs" once again.

An "improvement" at AI should be taken in context. Having received yet another (amongst many) bailouts from the government, AI has become semi-functional again in the domestic market. However, its operations are not sustainable as it had done very little to cut its overhead costs. The chances of that happening are pretty much nil. To the top level, it is run by management that is subservient to the political class. Even if its management had the best of intentions and was staffed by the world's brightest, it would still be hamstrung by politics.

At the bottom end, you have the public employee unions who are pretty much guaranteed life time employment. Why should they even have to pretend to work?!



Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 8):
These sound more like "AI/GoI staff favored vacation destinations" than actual business-driven "former stations." Really? MAD/BCN-India when not one carrier is on those routes? You think BA/IB would have let those slip through the crack if they thought they could make a few pounds there? What a joke..

LOL. If this happens, we can expect another bailout request even sooner than expected.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 2):
Regarding SkyTrax, all the rankings are bullsh*t. A better way to compare relative quality of airlines is to read trip reports. For example, for Air India, there are these trip reports:

Given that Aeroblogger is an employee or a paid stooge of AI, we should really take his subjective opinions of his employer very seriously. A quick scan of the AI and India threads will tell you that AI's customer service track record is worse than crap, even today. Inspite of all the protections and aid, AI's domestic market share in India has gone down the toilet. I consider the Skytrak reviews to be legitimate, though the sample size is too small to be statistically valid. Still, I would avoid AI if I had a choice. AI is pretty much avoided for corporate travel due to its unreliability and poor customer service. Low price coupled with bad service will only take you so far (which in this case, is not very far!)


User currently onlinevin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting goacom (Reply 16):
Given that Aeroblogger is an employee or a paid stooge of AI, we should really take his subjective opinions of his employer very seriously. A quick scan of the AI and India threads will tell you that AI's customer service track record is worse than crap, even today. Inspite of all the protections and aid, AI's domestic market share in India has gone down the toilet. I consider the Skytrak reviews to be legitimate, though the sample size is too small to be statistically valid. Still, I would avoid AI if I had a choice. AI is pretty much avoided for corporate travel due to its unreliability and poor customer service. Low price coupled with bad service will only take you so far (which in this case, is not very far!)

From a reliability, usability, and other metrics -- I would completely agree.

From time to time, AI provides a good soft product -- there are still good Air India employees out there..

This isn't consistent enough for them to be booked on corporate travel though.

I will say that Air India's meals are pretty awesome, at least for a Desi like me!


User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 17):
I will say that Air India's meals are pretty awesome, at least for a Desi like me!

Yes, I love the food on AI and as others have said, their in flight service is pretty good. The problem as always is the before and after part.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 15):
Is AI planning to make a go at the US west coast again?

Unlikely.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 17):
From a reliability, usability, and other metrics

Which metrics? I don't understand what you mean by usability either...
As for reliability, AI has a better OTP than most US or European carriers (albeit helped by nice Indian weather).

There are valid criticisms of AI. IRROPS handling is awful. Contingency planning is poor. Management is poor. The frequent flyer program is weak.

Please criticize AI legitimately Vinay, instead of coming up with vague rubbish to complain about.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently onlinevin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

usability = usability of Air India website, general customer service; I was on the phone for about 3 hours earlier this year just to try and upgrade my BLR-BOM flight

Their reliability on international routes is piss-poor -- OTPs, cancellations, et. al

Their service is quite good; as a business traveler I wouldn't book them b/c their reliability is so/so internationally at least

AI's OTP at the metros is better than that of the other Indian airlines, but that isn't saying much...


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 20):
usability of Air India website

Is better than the competition. Have you seen 9W or G8's website?

AI's website isn't great - it's full of bugs. However, for the most part, bookings can be made and amended easily on the website. Awards can also be booked online easily

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 20):
general customer service

General customer service is poor on the ground. I think we've established that...

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 20):

Their reliability on international routes is piss-poor

81% of operated flights are on time internationally. For the entire year last year, only the strike period had over 1% cancellations.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 20):
as a business traveler I wouldn't book them b/c their reliability is so/so internationally at least

Most corporate contracts which AI have are domestic, which does validate this idea.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 20):
AI's OTP at the metros is better than that of the other Indian airlines, but that isn't saying much...

Considering that most domestic flights in India go to the metros or are between metros, I'd actually say that this is saying quite a bit...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
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