Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why New AA Livery If On The Verge Of A Merge?  
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13724 times:

From Smartbrief and several other sources, it seems that the talks between US Airways and American are the closest they have ever been to merging and it is possible that a merger could be announces as soon as the next 2 weeks.

Having said that, what is the logic of creating a new airline livery for AA when the livery may not exist if a merger were to take place?

What is being said about the possible plan for the merger - if they merged would they fly AA's new livery and replace the US Airways livery? Hubs, Domiciles, HQ, fleet planning, etc...?

AA/Republic signed for a large E-jet order - does this support the idea of a merger or not? ...

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13744 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Thread starter):
Having said that, what is the logic of creating a new airline livery for AA when the livery may not exist if a merger were to take place?

The livery would exist. It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13676 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.

I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?
Perhaps they have the brand name that is more globally known...does that mean that even though they are the airline that went bankrupt they 'call the shots' ? The name of a company is something to be proud of. For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13673 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
The livery would exist. It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.

Indeed; I read recently (I'm pretty sure the source was posted here, in fact) that if the merger were to go through between AA and US, the surviving name (and brand) would be American. While speculators may say that the brand could change again, I'm guess that the new brand of AA is what's going to be gracing the skies from here on out - merger or not.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13598 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):
I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?

By what's the best going forward. It doesn't make so much of a difference which company "wins" the merger, it matters which name and branding gives the company the best shot at success in the future.

ValuJet bought AirTran and kept the AirTran name because of the bad publicity surrounding the ValuJet 592 crash. Brussels Airlines was formed initially out of Delta Air Transport and ended up using the basic Sabena branding but not the name.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6419 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13578 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):

America West bought US Airways & gave up its own name-------why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name-------thats IF US is the buyer------& we still dont know THAT.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19417 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13561 times:

Because in any potential merger, AA will be the surviving brand. So whether the livery is announced right before or right after the merger is announced is unimportant.

Because changing liveries during BKK is "traditional" and generally a sign that the company is reorganized and ready to start anew.

The livery had to be unveiled before the 77W went into service. There was no practical way to get around that. The merger talks are apparently taking longer than expected, but at this point it does appear that it will happen, although that is not absolutely certain. So, therefore, it is necessary to introduce the livery before the merger announcement.

This is not particularly unprecedented. DL recently announced a rebrand after their bankruptcy and then merged with NW four whole years later without a new rebranding.

In the case of US/HP, US had rebranded in 1997, but their brand had really suffered under the harsh economic climate. They were in bankruptcy when HP merged with them and, as a result, were due for a rebrand anyway.


User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9511 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13510 times:

Boeing hates polishing airplanes. It is a lot cheaper to paint. Historically three color liveries are provided with a purchase, but they were going to charge AA a lot of money to polish the 77Ws since they were brand new orders unlike the 737s which were add on orders. Since AA is the last airline left polishing planes Boeing was going to charge them which instigated the change now. The change was imminent in a year since the A320s would also need to be painted.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13505 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Thread starter):
what is the logic of creating a new airline livery for AA when the livery may not exist if a merger were to take place?

The design cost is one thing. To actually paint the airframes is where the real expense enters the equation.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.

I'm not convinced AA will. Bankruptcy has a tendency to do a lot of weird things. With that said Chapter 11 (reorganization) is the less of two evils I suppose. By brand each carrier basically says the same thing. American or U.S. Airways. If it comes to fruition we will see.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13287 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
I'm not convinced AA will. Bankruptcy has a tendency to do a lot of weird things. With that said Chapter 11 (reorganization) is the less of two evils I suppose. By brand each carrier basically says the same thing. American or U.S. Airways. If it comes to fruition we will see.

Its all about international, not domestic, brand awareness- in which case the American brand is far and away better known (US doesn't even fly to Asia). Doug Parker has said repeatedly that if the two airlines were to merge the AA brand would be kept.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13222 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):
For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..

US has very little name reconition in Asia (granted AA is not huge there) and Latin America. AA is pretty much known around the world. This could be part of the decision.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently onlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1098 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13199 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

with that snappy new look and a bunch of new airplanes? Why wouldn't the American brand be the existing brand?
US Air might have a Lot to say about How the combined airline is run, but THEY want to join American,
I've never seen or heard anything about American Wanting to join Them !!
Even if the Merger had been with United, United would have been the surviving Brand. Had our airplanes not looked like Crap with that Gray Mess, Maybe our colors might have prevailed over the Continental Livery.
Their Livery was in much better shape so it was a no brain-er to adopt that livery, and?
It's a pretty clean and serviceable livery over all, Maybe a little boring But it does look nice and crisp. American's new Livery is just plain SHARP!


User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13171 times:

Oy... if the ill-conceived merger does happen, US has said from the get-go that the surviving name would be American and that HDQ would be at DFW. Done, end of story, no need for this thread.

That said, AA is moving to the new livery from plans originating before this US Airways interference began, so AA, with or without US has moved to the new livery. Again, end of discussion.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12983 times:

I think the new AA livery was intended for the merged companies. It combines US's tail, the flag, and American's title on the fuselage with a very stylized eagle, keeping the red, white and blue motif. I think it fits US's style, not American's more traditional, understated style. It seems to mirror DL's turning the red widget on it's tail northwest, prior to its merger with NW, famous for its red tail and later compass to the northwest. Thank god they're not doing a UA/CO disaster, which was like attaching a Ford front half to a Chevy back half.

[Edited 2013-01-26 21:20:25]

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12953 times:

Why dont people like the Continental livery, its very professional and the logo is beautifully designed and stylish.

User currently offlinejetboytwa From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 389 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12918 times:

AA and US are separate airlines and are certainly still competitors until we hear otherwise (a big if). I don't understand how many people on this site can't seem to realize that. Would BMW consult Mercedes-Benz to help them design a new brand?

User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12918 times:

I hope the merger will help end this hideous and hopefully short lived livery that AA just introduced. No idea what the potential is of it staying with a combined airline, but no matter what, they are going to have to paint nearly 1000 planes, as opposed to repainting 300+ planes and retitling 300 others in the case of UA. They are certainly not going to stick with the 1968 AA livery, and I doubt that US would be the surviving brand, though I love their livery, so I wouldn't mind US's scheme sticking around and saving them from have to fully paint 300 planes.

User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12080 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name

easy brosef, it makes sense. The name US Airways would give the merger America West a better success - America West would not be a brand you would expect to see in Europe where a brand like US Airways would be. Im not in such awe as you might think but I do wonder how much better of a brand name American is Over US Airways.

But it seems that someone else has served me a good answer - one that makes sense..

Quoting as739x (Reply 10):
US has very little name reconition in Asia (granted AA is not huge there) and Latin America.
Quoting CoachClass (Reply 13):
I think the new AA livery was intended for the merged companies. It combines US's tail, the flag, and American's title on the fuselage with a very stylized eagle, keeping the red, white and blue motif. I think it fits US's style, not American's more traditional, understated style

Taking that into consideration, the new livery is something I am actually looking forward to seeing whether or not a merger happens. What CO and UA did was uninspiring although the globe represents well the image that Smisek wanted for his company. Deltas widget is interesting on its side, its just a very safe, inoffensive livery but it isnt anything to brag about.

It will be nice to see all those E-Jets in the new American livery as well!


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19417 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11795 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):
Boeing hates polishing airplanes. It is a lot cheaper to paint. Historically three color liveries are provided with a purchase, but they were going to charge AA a lot of money to polish the 77Ws since they were brand new orders unlike the 737s which were add on orders. Since AA is the last airline left polishing planes Boeing was going to charge them which instigated the change now. The change was imminent in a year since the A320s would also need to be painted.

I don't know if this is true, but I do know that it turns out that polishing planes is more expensive than painting them, even when you account for weight savings. And, with CFRP planes on order, polished was just not going to happen, anyway.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9295 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11760 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):

I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?
Perhaps they have the brand name that is more globally known...does that mean that even though they are the airline that went bankrupt they 'call the shots' ? The name of a company is something to be proud of. For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..

thats life. How many company names have gone away?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):

By what's the best going forward. It doesn't make so much of a difference which company "wins" the merger, it matters which name and branding gives the company the best shot at success in the future.

This. American is the more globally recognized names. 3 airline names, short of chap 7, you can pretty much expect to stick around for US airlines....United, American and Delta.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
-why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name-------thats IF US is the buyer------& we still dont know THAT.

because it would be like America west buying US and keeping the HP name. Not very smart.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):
The change was imminent in a year since the A320s would also need to be painted.

I agreed with everything till you got to this....
they can use this as much as they want, but with all the Airbus and 787s, they didn't have to change anything. Find a paint for the plastic birds and put the classic AA paint on it. (white/Grey or some kind of sliver)
That is, IMO, a poor excuse. 777/737s could stay just like they are, if AA wanted.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):

I'm not convinced AA will. Bankruptcy has a tendency to do a lot of weird things. With that said Chapter 11 (reorganization) is the less of two evils I suppose. By brand each carrier basically says the same thing. American or U.S. Airways. If it comes to fruition we will see.

American has to valuable of a brand.



yep.
User currently offlinesuper80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 11294 times:

I think the reason AA made the tail as an American Flag is to match the flag on US AIRWAYS!

Merger is happening! :P


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9641 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
American has to valuable of a brand.

But so did Pan Am, TWA and Eastern.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9540 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 21):
But so did Pan Am, TWA and Eastern.

Put Pan Am and Eastern didn't merged with another airline (and there of course have been several Pan Am reincarnations) and TWA "merged" with another carrier that also had very high brand recognition.


User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3391 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9496 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 21):
But so did Pan Am, TWA and Eastern

I dont know about Pan Am and Eastern...but TWA at the end was known for an ancient Terminal 5 at JFK and one hub in the midwest.

The days of them being "known around the world" ended about a decade prior.

AA was the stronger and larger brand by far


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19417 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8584 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
thats life. How many company names have gone away?

  

Remember TWA? The massive airline that rivaled Pan Am? Remember Eastern Airlines?

Happens.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
This. American is the more globally recognized names. 3 airline names, short of chap 7, you can pretty much expect to stick around for US airlines....United, American and Delta.

Although, who would have known in 1980 that one day TW and PA would be gone?


25 CIDFlyer : Delta introudced their livery before they announced a merger with NW, so its not far fetched on why AA went ahead to re-brand, as they were going to h
26 brilondon : I have not read or seen the same. I don't know if they will merge, only time will tell, but US is terrible airline with bad connections to both Europ
27 GentFromAlaska : If the bankruptcy judge allowed the paint jobs to proceed and if If payment was being withheld from suppliers I think the creditors would have reason
28 YYCspotter : So AA will probably be the surviving brand, but if US is the buyer, will the new airline be with Star or Oneworld?
29 Post contains images AA94 : I believe it doesn't support a merger. In my eyes, one of the benefits of a US/AA merger is that AA would have access to the mid to large RJs that th
30 jayunited : If the merger does happen of course AA would be the surviving brand and their new livery will be add to all US planes because AA does have more brand
31 iFlyLOTs : No matter who's in control they'll be in OneWorld, AA management has no reason to leave and DP has said that if he's in charge that they'll join (edi
32 cosyr : Oneworld. US hates Star right now (mostly just UA) and there is little to be gained there, whereas in Oneworld, they are the exclusive airline to the
33 DocLightning : Also, there is no way the feds would allow two of the three major international airlines in the USA to be in the same alliance. As a transitional liv
34 AeroWesty : Sure they would. The feds may not allow a combined AA/US into the UA/LH JV, but the alliances themselves are nothing other than marketing programs wi
35 Kurtjeter : From my experiences with USAir, their giving up their identity woulnd't be much of a loss.
36 YYZYYT : happened in Canada too, when Pacific Western bought CP. That was my first thought when I saw the new branding, it's very reminiscent of US brand. Act
37 funkywabit : I think the merger was taken into consideration when the livery was designed... I have to admit, the first thing I thought when I saw the new livery t
38 Post contains images AA94 : Interesting? ... perhaps. Attractive? .... definitely not.
39 jayunited : Where are you getting your information from about US hating Star (mostly UA) from? US is free to leave Star any time they want to but at this particu
40 strfyr51 : it's NOT that we don't like it the Tail is excellent, the rest? Well lets say it's " pedestrian".
41 deltaflyertoo : You never know....Gap and Coke are two examples of major Fortune 500 companies that went on new branding campaigns only to dump it when it wasn't unp
42 AA94 : I get your point, but you'd be surprised at how many people still don't realize that AA's new aircraft simply can't tolerate the polished aluminum. M
43 deltaflyertoo : Yes that is true too and I too have noticed that. Indeed every article I have read bashing it also bashes the concept of rebrand in general w/ failur
44 ikramerica : The tail scheme has little connection to the rest of the rebranding from what I've seen. AA/US could modify the tail and keep the rest of the branding
45 gihanjaya380 : AA being the stronger brand out of the two, the merger will keep the stronger and better brand for the future of the two merging companies. That bein
46 JoePatroni707 : IMHO the more Horton shows business as usual at AA is the more he tries to convince the UCC to allow AA tremain AA[Edited 2013-01-27 18:31:18]
47 deltaflyertoo : Agree, thats whats so horrible about the rebranding-the tail. The beak of the Eagle is lame too but at least it looks professional vs. tails with wha
48 Post contains links and images ZSOFN : Like so: There's a dedicated Facebook group that's been petitioning for exactly that change (which is unlikely, let's face it...)
49 Viscount724 : The PW/CP merger was slightly different than the AA/US scenario as they didn't use the name of either carrier. They didn't have much choice as the Pa
50 Post contains links and images Polot : Which is a terrible design. The tail sticks up above all else and is the easiest thing for people on the ground/airport to see- hence why there is a
51 davidho1985 : 1,000,000 times better than the official one in my opinion.
52 comairguycvg : I don't think if a merger were announced now that they would re-design the newly unveiled AA paint scheme. Just like in April '07 when DL came out wit
53 Post contains images gigneil : There's always the repeated statements by Doug Parker that the airline will be named American and headquartered in Dallas.... but don't let that conv
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Malev On The Verge Of Bankruptcy posted Mon Nov 17 2008 22:29:36 by KrisYYZ
Is CO On The Verge Of Being A True "intl" Airline? posted Thu Aug 30 2007 18:19:47 by CO777DAL
Porter On The Verge Of Overtaking Harmony!? posted Wed Jan 3 2007 20:47:09 by Connector4you
Alitalia On The Verge Of Collapse posted Tue Oct 10 2006 11:42:27 by FD728
LAB On The Verge Of Closing Down posted Tue Mar 28 2006 16:16:58 by Bullpitt
Why Does Airbus Add Lights On The Side Of The.? posted Sat Mar 25 2006 18:41:29 by AirCanada014
Delta On The Verge Of Bankruptcy posted Fri Mar 12 2004 06:24:26 by MEA321
Air France On The Verge Of A Tragedy... posted Tue Dec 17 2002 14:32:28 by CaboVerde
New Airline Proposed On The Isle Of Wight posted Sat Apr 22 2006 15:48:24 by Humberside
CEO Says NWA "on The Verge" Of Joining Sky Team posted Wed Sep 10 2003 15:03:12 by Beefer