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Why New AA Livery If On The Verge Of A Merge?  
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 15 hours ago) and read 13718 times:

From Smartbrief and several other sources, it seems that the talks between US Airways and American are the closest they have ever been to merging and it is possible that a merger could be announces as soon as the next 2 weeks.

Having said that, what is the logic of creating a new airline livery for AA when the livery may not exist if a merger were to take place?

What is being said about the possible plan for the merger - if they merged would they fly AA's new livery and replace the US Airways livery? Hubs, Domiciles, HQ, fleet planning, etc...?

AA/Republic signed for a large E-jet order - does this support the idea of a merger or not? ...

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15717 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13738 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Thread starter):
Having said that, what is the logic of creating a new airline livery for AA when the livery may not exist if a merger were to take place?

The livery would exist. It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13670 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.

I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?
Perhaps they have the brand name that is more globally known...does that mean that even though they are the airline that went bankrupt they 'call the shots' ? The name of a company is something to be proud of. For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13667 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
The livery would exist. It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.

Indeed; I read recently (I'm pretty sure the source was posted here, in fact) that if the merger were to go through between AA and US, the surviving name (and brand) would be American. While speculators may say that the brand could change again, I'm guess that the new brand of AA is what's going to be gracing the skies from here on out - merger or not.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15717 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13592 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):
I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?

By what's the best going forward. It doesn't make so much of a difference which company "wins" the merger, it matters which name and branding gives the company the best shot at success in the future.

ValuJet bought AirTran and kept the AirTran name because of the bad publicity surrounding the ValuJet 592 crash. Brussels Airlines was formed initially out of Delta Air Transport and ended up using the basic Sabena branding but not the name.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently online727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6387 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13572 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):

America West bought US Airways & gave up its own name-------why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name-------thats IF US is the buyer------& we still dont know THAT.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13555 times:

Because in any potential merger, AA will be the surviving brand. So whether the livery is announced right before or right after the merger is announced is unimportant.

Because changing liveries during BKK is "traditional" and generally a sign that the company is reorganized and ready to start anew.

The livery had to be unveiled before the 77W went into service. There was no practical way to get around that. The merger talks are apparently taking longer than expected, but at this point it does appear that it will happen, although that is not absolutely certain. So, therefore, it is necessary to introduce the livery before the merger announcement.

This is not particularly unprecedented. DL recently announced a rebrand after their bankruptcy and then merged with NW four whole years later without a new rebranding.

In the case of US/HP, US had rebranded in 1997, but their brand had really suffered under the harsh economic climate. They were in bankruptcy when HP merged with them and, as a result, were due for a rebrand anyway.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9496 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13504 times:

Boeing hates polishing airplanes. It is a lot cheaper to paint. Historically three color liveries are provided with a purchase, but they were going to charge AA a lot of money to polish the 77Ws since they were brand new orders unlike the 737s which were add on orders. Since AA is the last airline left polishing planes Boeing was going to charge them which instigated the change now. The change was imminent in a year since the A320s would also need to be painted.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 13499 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Thread starter):
what is the logic of creating a new airline livery for AA when the livery may not exist if a merger were to take place?

The design cost is one thing. To actually paint the airframes is where the real expense enters the equation.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
It's almost impossible to think of a merger scenario where American would not be the surviving brand.

I'm not convinced AA will. Bankruptcy has a tendency to do a lot of weird things. With that said Chapter 11 (reorganization) is the less of two evils I suppose. By brand each carrier basically says the same thing. American or U.S. Airways. If it comes to fruition we will see.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 13281 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
I'm not convinced AA will. Bankruptcy has a tendency to do a lot of weird things. With that said Chapter 11 (reorganization) is the less of two evils I suppose. By brand each carrier basically says the same thing. American or U.S. Airways. If it comes to fruition we will see.

Its all about international, not domestic, brand awareness- in which case the American brand is far and away better known (US doesn't even fly to Asia). Doug Parker has said repeatedly that if the two airlines were to merge the AA brand would be kept.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6091 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 13216 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):
For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..

US has very little name reconition in Asia (granted AA is not huge there) and Latin America. AA is pretty much known around the world. This could be part of the decision.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 13193 times:
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with that snappy new look and a bunch of new airplanes? Why wouldn't the American brand be the existing brand?
US Air might have a Lot to say about How the combined airline is run, but THEY want to join American,
I've never seen or heard anything about American Wanting to join Them !!
Even if the Merger had been with United, United would have been the surviving Brand. Had our airplanes not looked like Crap with that Gray Mess, Maybe our colors might have prevailed over the Continental Livery.
Their Livery was in much better shape so it was a no brain-er to adopt that livery, and?
It's a pretty clean and serviceable livery over all, Maybe a little boring But it does look nice and crisp. American's new Livery is just plain SHARP!


User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 13 hours ago) and read 13165 times:

Oy... if the ill-conceived merger does happen, US has said from the get-go that the surviving name would be American and that HDQ would be at DFW. Done, end of story, no need for this thread.

That said, AA is moving to the new livery from plans originating before this US Airways interference began, so AA, with or without US has moved to the new livery. Again, end of discussion.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 12977 times:

I think the new AA livery was intended for the merged companies. It combines US's tail, the flag, and American's title on the fuselage with a very stylized eagle, keeping the red, white and blue motif. I think it fits US's style, not American's more traditional, understated style. It seems to mirror DL's turning the red widget on it's tail northwest, prior to its merger with NW, famous for its red tail and later compass to the northwest. Thank god they're not doing a UA/CO disaster, which was like attaching a Ford front half to a Chevy back half.

[Edited 2013-01-26 21:20:25]

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 12947 times:

Why dont people like the Continental livery, its very professional and the logo is beautifully designed and stylish.

User currently offlinejetboytwa From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 389 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 12912 times:

AA and US are separate airlines and are certainly still competitors until we hear otherwise (a big if). I don't understand how many people on this site can't seem to realize that. Would BMW consult Mercedes-Benz to help them design a new brand?

User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 12912 times:

I hope the merger will help end this hideous and hopefully short lived livery that AA just introduced. No idea what the potential is of it staying with a combined airline, but no matter what, they are going to have to paint nearly 1000 planes, as opposed to repainting 300+ planes and retitling 300 others in the case of UA. They are certainly not going to stick with the 1968 AA livery, and I doubt that US would be the surviving brand, though I love their livery, so I wouldn't mind US's scheme sticking around and saving them from have to fully paint 300 planes.

User currently offlineKochamLOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 9 hours ago) and read 12074 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name

easy brosef, it makes sense. The name US Airways would give the merger America West a better success - America West would not be a brand you would expect to see in Europe where a brand like US Airways would be. Im not in such awe as you might think but I do wonder how much better of a brand name American is Over US Airways.

But it seems that someone else has served me a good answer - one that makes sense..

Quoting as739x (Reply 10):
US has very little name reconition in Asia (granted AA is not huge there) and Latin America.
Quoting CoachClass (Reply 13):
I think the new AA livery was intended for the merged companies. It combines US's tail, the flag, and American's title on the fuselage with a very stylized eagle, keeping the red, white and blue motif. I think it fits US's style, not American's more traditional, understated style

Taking that into consideration, the new livery is something I am actually looking forward to seeing whether or not a merger happens. What CO and UA did was uninspiring although the globe represents well the image that Smisek wanted for his company. Deltas widget is interesting on its side, its just a very safe, inoffensive livery but it isnt anything to brag about.

It will be nice to see all those E-Jets in the new American livery as well!


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 11789 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):
Boeing hates polishing airplanes. It is a lot cheaper to paint. Historically three color liveries are provided with a purchase, but they were going to charge AA a lot of money to polish the 77Ws since they were brand new orders unlike the 737s which were add on orders. Since AA is the last airline left polishing planes Boeing was going to charge them which instigated the change now. The change was imminent in a year since the A320s would also need to be painted.

I don't know if this is true, but I do know that it turns out that polishing planes is more expensive than painting them, even when you account for weight savings. And, with CFRP planes on order, polished was just not going to happen, anyway.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 8 hours ago) and read 11754 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):

I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?
Perhaps they have the brand name that is more globally known...does that mean that even though they are the airline that went bankrupt they 'call the shots' ? The name of a company is something to be proud of. For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..

thats life. How many company names have gone away?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):

By what's the best going forward. It doesn't make so much of a difference which company "wins" the merger, it matters which name and branding gives the company the best shot at success in the future.

This. American is the more globally recognized names. 3 airline names, short of chap 7, you can pretty much expect to stick around for US airlines....United, American and Delta.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
-why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name-------thats IF US is the buyer------& we still dont know THAT.

because it would be like America west buying US and keeping the HP name. Not very smart.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):
The change was imminent in a year since the A320s would also need to be painted.

I agreed with everything till you got to this....
they can use this as much as they want, but with all the Airbus and 787s, they didn't have to change anything. Find a paint for the plastic birds and put the classic AA paint on it. (white/Grey or some kind of sliver)
That is, IMO, a poor excuse. 777/737s could stay just like they are, if AA wanted.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):

I'm not convinced AA will. Bankruptcy has a tendency to do a lot of weird things. With that said Chapter 11 (reorganization) is the less of two evils I suppose. By brand each carrier basically says the same thing. American or U.S. Airways. If it comes to fruition we will see.

American has to valuable of a brand.



yep.
User currently offlinesuper80 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 7 hours ago) and read 11288 times:

I think the reason AA made the tail as an American Flag is to match the flag on US AIRWAYS!

Merger is happening! :P


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 hours ago) and read 9635 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
American has to valuable of a brand.

But so did Pan Am, TWA and Eastern.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 9534 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 21):
But so did Pan Am, TWA and Eastern.

Put Pan Am and Eastern didn't merged with another airline (and there of course have been several Pan Am reincarnations) and TWA "merged" with another carrier that also had very high brand recognition.


User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3381 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 9490 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 21):
But so did Pan Am, TWA and Eastern

I dont know about Pan Am and Eastern...but TWA at the end was known for an ancient Terminal 5 at JFK and one hub in the midwest.

The days of them being "known around the world" ended about a decade prior.

AA was the stronger and larger brand by far


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 8578 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
thats life. How many company names have gone away?

  

Remember TWA? The massive airline that rivaled Pan Am? Remember Eastern Airlines?

Happens.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
This. American is the more globally recognized names. 3 airline names, short of chap 7, you can pretty much expect to stick around for US airlines....United, American and Delta.

Although, who would have known in 1980 that one day TW and PA would be gone?


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 1 hour ago) and read 8723 times:

Delta introudced their livery before they announced a merger with NW, so its not far fetched on why AA went ahead to re-brand, as they were going to have to do something to create a new image coming out of bankruptcy and have to paint all those new planes on order anyways. US if they do merge and start repainting their fleet to AA and Im sure they would be more than happy to as they seem to want this merger bad.

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months ago) and read 8398 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 11):
I've never seen or heard anything about American Wanting to join Them !!
Even if the Merger had been with United, United would have been the surviving Brand. Had our airplanes not looked like Crap with that Gray Mess, Maybe our colors might have prevailed over the Continental Livery.

I have not read or seen the same. I don't know if they will merge, only time will tell, but US is terrible airline with bad connections to both Europe and South America, no connections to Asia, and really no presence anywhere except in the mainland US.

On the second point about the United colours, I liked the last version of the UA livery and was very disappointed when they chose to go with the CO colours with just a United sticker slapped on the side of the aircraft. I didn't like the grey either but UA was very, very slowly re-painting their aircraft into what I associated with UA. I still can't get over the CO paint meaning anything other than CO.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months ago) and read 8374 times:

If the bankruptcy judge allowed the paint jobs to proceed and if If payment was being withheld from suppliers I think the creditors would have reason to go ballistic and petition the court for an all stop.

A company files for reorganization usually for labor concessions. The next biggest chunk is fuel and thereafter other suppliers and then decides to have unnecessary painting done while in bankruptcy. What kind of message does it send outside of too big to fail if they can't or won't pay their bills but has aircraft painted.

In my mind the senior leadership at AA and the judiciary have their priorities wrong if they allow unnecessary expenditures while any carrier is in bankruptcy. If the creditors are being paid AA would of course could proceed with some normalcy with oversight of the court.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineYYCspotter From Canada, joined Jul 2012, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months ago) and read 8274 times:

So AA will probably be the surviving brand, but if US is the buyer, will the new airline be with Star or Oneworld?


I
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 575 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months ago) and read 8264 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Thread starter):
AA/Republic signed for a large E-jet order - does this support the idea of a merger or not? ...

I believe it doesn't support a merger. In my eyes, one of the benefits of a US/AA merger is that AA would have access to the mid to large RJs that they need, but their new tie-up with Republic more or less negates any power that US had.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Because in any potential merger, AA will be the surviving brand. So whether the livery is announced right before or right after the merger is announced is unimportant.
Quoting as739x (Reply 10):
US has very little name reconition in Asia (granted AA is not huge there) and Latin America. AA is pretty much known around the world. This could be part of the decision.

  

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 12):
Oy... if the ill-conceived merger does happen, US has said from the get-go that the surviving name would be American and that HDQ would be at DFW. Done, end of story, no need for this thread.

That said, AA is moving to the new livery from plans originating before this US Airways interference began, so AA, with or without US has moved to the new livery. Again, end of discussion.

  

Agreed. There are a handful of new threads on this site each day speculating about the US/AA merger. Not only have many of these questions been asked and answered multiple times, but it is ridiculous to continue to speculate about this merger.

Quoting jetboytwa (Reply 15):
AA and US are separate airlines and are certainly still competitors until we hear otherwise (a big if). I don't understand how many people on this site can't seem to realize that. Would BMW consult Mercedes-Benz to help them design a new brand?

  

Quoting cosyr (Reply 16):
I hope the merger will help end this hideous and hopefully short lived livery that AA just introduced.

Think again. AA isn't going to throw away their new livery that's they've invested a significant amount of time and money in, and they're definitely not going to slap the AA name on the US livery.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 26):
I have not read or seen the same. I don't know if they will merge, only time will tell, but US is terrible airline with bad connections to both Europe and South America, no connections to Asia, and really no presence anywhere except in the mainland US.

AA is definitely the more internationally recognized brand.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8162 times:

If the merger does happen of course AA would be the surviving brand and their new livery will be add to all US planes because AA does have more brand recognition world wide than US.

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 17):
What CO and UA did was uninspiring although the globe represents well the image that Smisek wanted for his company. Deltas widget is interesting on its side, its just a very safe, inoffensive livery but it isnt anything to brag about.

Smisek chose to keep the CO livery because it would have cost too much money to have to repaint over 1,200 mainline and UAX planes. But if you look at what AA is doing they won't have to repaint a lot of aircraft because they are replacing more than half of their fleet over the next couple of years so all new aircraft will come from the factory with the new livery and the planes being retired (if AA chooses) does not need to repainted.

It cost a lot of money to repaint aircraft Smisek chose to repaint only half the fleet thus saving millions in the process. I hope the day will come when UA introduces an all new livery but I don't think that will happen until sometime during the next decade at best.


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8126 times:

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 28):
will the new airline be with Star or Oneworld?

No matter who's in control they'll be in OneWorld, AA management has no reason to leave and DP has said that if he's in charge that they'll join (edit: stay in) OneWorld.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 27):
What kind of message does it send outside of too big to fail if they can't or won't pay their bills but has aircraft painted.

I don't know but UA, DL, and US all changed their livery while they were in bankruptcy so I don't really see the issue. Plus AA has plenty of cash, and most of the planes are already going to be delivered in the new scheme right from the manufacturer so it's hardly going to cost them as much money as you think it will. Boeing typically throws the first three colors of the plane in free when you order from them (though I'm not sure about Airbus on this).

[Edited 2013-01-27 09:41:15]


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 28):
So AA will probably be the surviving brand, but if US is the buyer, will the new airline be with Star or Oneworld?

Oneworld. US hates Star right now (mostly just UA) and there is little to be gained there, whereas in Oneworld, they are the exclusive airline to the United States, and heavy to Caribbean and South America. That is a valuable role to play for an alliance. In Star, they are redundant in every way.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19389 posts, RR: 58
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7903 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 31):
No matter who's in control they'll be in OneWorld, AA management has no reason to leave and DP has said that if he's in charge that they'll join OneWorld.

Also, there is no way the feds would allow two of the three major international airlines in the USA to be in the same alliance.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 29):
Think again. AA isn't going to throw away their new livery that's they've invested a significant amount of time and money in, and they're definitely not going to slap the AA name on the US livery.

As a transitional livery, they might, actually. That would be... interesting.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Also, there is no way the feds would allow two of the three major international airlines in the USA to be in the same alliance.

Sure they would. The feds may not allow a combined AA/US into the UA/LH JV, but the alliances themselves are nothing other than marketing programs without schedule or pricing coordination.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKurtjeter From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):
For US Airways to merge and give up their identity would be a shame for them..

From my experiences with USAir, their giving up their identity woulnd't be much of a loss.


User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 947 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7099 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
America West bought US Airways & gave up its own name-------why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name-------thats IF US is the buyer------& we still dont know THAT.

happened in Canada too, when Pacific Western bought CP.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 13):
I think the new AA livery was intended for the merged companies. It combines US's tail, the flag, and American's title on the fuselage with a very stylized eagle, keeping the red, white and blue motif. I think it fits US's style, not American's more traditional, understated style.

That was my first thought when I saw the new branding, it's very reminiscent of US brand.

Actually, no, that was my second thought.

Quoting cosyr (Reply 16):
I hope the merger will help end this hideous and hopefully short lived livery that AA just introduced

THAT was my first thought.


User currently offlinefunkywabit From United States of America, joined May 2007, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

I think the merger was taken into consideration when the livery was designed... I have to admit, the first thing I thought when I saw the new livery tail was that I was looking at a new livery for US Airways.

User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 575 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6329 times:

Quoting Kurtjeter (Reply 35):
From my experiences with USAir, their giving up their identity woulnd't be much of a loss.

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
As a transitional livery, they might, actually. That would be... interesting.

Interesting? ... perhaps. Attractive? .... definitely not.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

Quoting cosyr (Reply 32):
So AA will probably be the surviving brand, but if US is the buyer, will the new airline be with Star or Oneworld?

Oneworld. US hates Star right now (mostly just UA) and there is little to be gained there, whereas in Oneworld, they are the exclusive airline to the United States



Where are you getting your information from about US hating Star (mostly UA) from? US is free to leave Star any time they want to but at this particular moment where would they go? Truth is Star and UA have been good to US, UA sponsored US which is how they got into Star to begin with. Star has given US a presence in many parts of the world where US would have no presence other wise. And even with all this merger talk UA and Star has kept US code share codes on all their flights and in fact expanded the code share.

But I do agree that if AA and US merge the new airline will go with Oneworld because there is no purpose in having UA and a combined AA/US in Star.


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5819 times:
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Quoting 777way (Reply 14):

it's NOT that we don't like it the Tail is excellent, the rest? Well lets say it's " pedestrian".


User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 29):

Think again. AA isn't going to throw away their new livery that's they've invested a significant amount of time and money in, and they're definitely not going to slap the AA name on the US livery.

You never know....Gap and Coke are two examples of major Fortune 500 companies that went on new branding campaigns only to dump it when it wasn't unpopular, and, DL as well went through that odd rebranding (DeltaFloat or whatever A.netters nicknamed it). Its more common than people realize, so you never know, AA could.

If you look around a lot of major news outlets (Vanity Fair, Forbes,) along with hundreds on message boards beyond a.net have voiced displeasure with the new look. So AA knows they are dealing with something unpopular at this point.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 575 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 41):
You never know....Gap and Coke are two examples of major Fortune 500 companies that went on new branding campaigns only to dump it when it wasn't unpopular, and, DL as well went through that odd rebranding (DeltaFloat or whatever A.netters nicknamed it). Its more common than people realize, so you never know, AA could.

I get your point, but you'd be surprised at how many people still don't realize that AA's new aircraft simply can't tolerate the polished aluminum. Many journalists (and commenters) out there believe that the rebrand was completely randomly done, which isn't anywhere near the truth.

Personally, I think there'll be some ire for the next, say, six months or so, and then it'll die off. The majority of the public don't care how the plane is painted. Initially, I was not a fan of the new livery, but it's grown on me at this point. I suspect this is true for at least a portion of the public.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 42):
I get your point, but you'd be surprised at how many people still don't realize that AA's new aircraft simply can't tolerate the polished aluminum. Many journalists (and commenters) out there believe that the rebrand was completely randomly done, which isn't anywhere near the truth.

Yes that is true too and I too have noticed that. Indeed every article I have read bashing it also bashes the concept of rebrand in general w/ failure to understand it was necessity (vs. saying yes rebrand necessary but bashing logo itself only).

Quoting AA94 (Reply 42):
The majority of the public don't care how the plane is painted.

Yeah that is true too....I have many friends who know into aviation who come back and tell me their last flight was on a 747 (when they flew WN) or a 727 when they just flew United...so yeah I get average joe has no idea or care when they fly.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 44, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

The tail scheme has little connection to the rest of the rebranding from what I've seen. AA/US could modify the tail and keep the rest of the branding. The already painted tails would be the last to be repsinted, 3 years out or more.

They could also introduce multiple tails like B6



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinegihanjaya380 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4433 times:
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Quoting KochamLOT (Thread starter):
if they merged would they fly AA's new livery and replace the US Airways livery? Hubs, Domiciles, HQ, fleet planning, etc...?

AA being the stronger brand out of the two, the merger will keep the stronger and better brand for the future of the two merging companies. That being said, it is ultimately for the companies to decide on the name they are going to keep and which one will fade. It is too bad to see some of the pioneering name in the airlines business has completely vanished and only a hand full remain. If AA name goes out, it will be a sad day for aviation because AA has a very long history in US aviation.


Gihan


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

IMHO the more Horton shows business as usual at AA is the more he tries to convince the UCC to allow AA tremain AA

[Edited 2013-01-27 18:31:18]

User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3936 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 44):
The tail scheme has little connection to the rest of the rebranding from what I've seen. AA/US could modify the tail and keep the rest of the branding.

Agree, thats whats so horrible about the rebranding-the tail. The beak of the Eagle is lame too but at least it looks professional vs. tails with what look like 5 year old magic marker drawing. They should just put that on the tail and call it a day. That way they keep what they supposedly worked so hard for and save face w/ out having to admit anything too much.


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 47):
The beak of the Eagle is lame too but at least it looks professional vs. tails with what look like 5 year old magic marker drawing. They should just put that on the tail and call it a day.

Like so:



There's a dedicated Facebook group that's been petitioning for exactly that change (which is unlikely, let's face it...)


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24824 posts, RR: 22
Reply 49, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3447 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 36):
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 5):
America West bought US Airways & gave up its own name-------why is so unthinkable that US Airways buying AA would result in US Airways giving up its name-------thats IF US is the buyer------& we still dont know THAT.

happened in Canada too, when Pacific Western bought CP.

The PW/CP merger was slightly different than the AA/US scenario as they didn't use the name of either carrier. They didn't have much choice as the Pacific Western name made no sense for a carrier serving 5 continents and was largely unknown outside western Canada, and they couldn't retain the Canadian Paciffic name as that was the name of their parent company that was selling the airline.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2124 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 48):

Which is a terrible design. The tail sticks up above all else and is the easiest thing for people on the ground/airport to see- hence why there is a major focus on having a memorable design/logo on the tail. The tail of your design is just a shapeless blue blob.

Pretend for a moment that the DL 767 behind the VS 747 in this photo is an AA 767 in your proposed livery:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Markman


How on earth is the layman who knows nothing about airlines suppose to connect the the only visible part of the design, the blue blob on the tail, with AA? The current design clearly evokes America, so at the very least the viewer would have an idea of where the plane is from.


User currently offlinedavidho1985 From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2012, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3317 times:
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Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 48):
Like so:



There's a dedicated Facebook group that's been petitioning for exactly that change (which is unlikely, let's face it...)

1,000,000 times better than the official one in my opinion.


User currently offlinecomairguycvg From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 337 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

I don't think if a merger were announced now that they would re-design the newly unveiled AA paint scheme. Just like in April '07 when DL came out with their current scheme, then one year later in April '08 the merger with NW was announced and there was no re-design of the livery. I always wondered about that. On the left side of the plane the widget points to the northwest, so it makes me wonder how long in advance of the new design did the people involved with the DL/NW merger know that the merger was going to happen. Or it could have just been a coincidence.

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 53, posted (1 year 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Quoting KochamLOT (Reply 2):
I feel the same way about the above statement, but how is that decided?
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
I'm not convinced AA will.

There's always the repeated statements by Doug Parker that the airline will be named American and headquartered in Dallas.... but don't let that convince you.   

NS


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