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Rumor: Southwest Finally Starts Fresno  
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 387 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9965 times:

I spoke to a WN rep today FAT is still being loaded, it's partially in their system. The announcement has not been made yet... still loading it 1 DEN, 3 LAX, 1 LAS, 1 SEA, 2 PHX... seems very aggressive. Could this be a build up to support Hawaii flights?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19717 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9932 times:

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):

I spoke to a WN rep today FAT is still being loaded, it's partially in their system. The announcement has not been made yet... still loading it 1 DEN, 3 LAX, 1 LAS, 1 SEA, 2 PHX... seems very aggressive. Could this be a build up to support Hawaii flights?

Especially because it seems so lopsided a city. Not many people in DEN, LAX, LAS, SEA, or PHX go to FAT. So pretty much everyone on those flights has to come from Fresno and surrounds. Then again, the catchment area would actually be quite large and encompass most of the Central Valley.

I don't see what FAT would do for Hawaii flights. Presumably flights to Hawaii would be out of SFO and LAX, mostly. FAT isn't big enough to be a WN transfer hub.


User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9858 times:

U R wrong about flights to HI. SJC & OAK both offer flights to LIH, HNL, KOA, OGG. FAT does too on G4 I believe... UA used to be strong in FAT. Fact is their express carrier westair had a hub their. The air terminal is in serious need of lift

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9810 times:

If its partially in their system we ought to be able to see it. SEA seems hard to believe.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9778 times:
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Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I spoke to a WN rep today FAT is still being loaded, it's partially in their system. The announcement has not been made yet.

If it hasn't been announced - and if it is true - then surely it is confidential information and the rep should not have blabbed it.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

@bob Go to their website Fresno is loaded, not making it up.

SEA seems like a gamble is AS pulling it?


User currently offlineboberito6589 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9736 times:

FAT works as a city you can attempt to start a trip from on southwest.com, but every city that you pit in as the destination, it just says "Invalid Route with departure airport"

User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9616 times:

@bob Go to their website Fresno is loaded partially. not making it up. Just the "to" city of FAT will come up. Routes will not come up until announced (I think Tuesday).

SEA seems like a gamble is AS pulling it?


User currently offlinealggag From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9393 times:

Fresno has been available as a city on southwest.com for about a year now thanks to the partnership with Volaris - along those lines, you can pull up cities in Mexico along with the few AirTran only cities. In the case of Airtran, you are redirected to airtran.com while for the Volaris only cities you get the error that you posted. So far the behavior you have posted is absolutely nothing new.

However, I did pull up their route map and noticed that Fresno is now totally missing and not marked as a Volaris station as I'm pretty sure that it had been in the past.

[Edited 2013-01-27 06:07:41]

User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9358 times:

I don't see this happening.
BUT that being said This is a new WN.
DSM and KEY WEST are all about using third party contracting/outsourcing ground staff.
Which cost WN less to Open a new city than before so it's possible.
WN is all about shifting flying to find new revenue.
If and that's a big IF WN were to add FAT to the network I could see them pull flights from SMF because of the BIG jump in Airport cost at SMF.
So moving something like 2 LAX, 2 LAS from SMF and 1 SNA ( FL flight to feed the SNA Mexico service).
MY armchair network planning I can see FAT schedule something like.
........................................0630 LAX-ELP-DAL
........................................0735 SNA-MEX with connections to SJD
DAL-ELP-LAX 1200............1230 LAS-HOU-HRL
HRL-HOU-LAS 1330...........1400 LAX-PHX-ELP
TUS-SAN-LAS 1530...........1600 LAS-SAN-TUS
.......MEX-SNA 1935........................................
DAL-ELP-LAX 2100........................................

As you can see All MY made up markets have a Mexico feed to capture the huge Mexican American population of Fresno.
Wnfg 

[Edited 2013-01-27 06:36:52]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9339 times:

Fresno does come up with valid destinations on the Southwest site...but they are all Volaris destinations like MEX and GDL.

This could indeed be prelude to real WN flights being added. Or perhaps Southwest.com will be selling Volaris-only flights out of Fresno (their only US destination WN does not serve) just like you can buy MDW-MEX flown by Volaris on southwest.com.

Fresno is certainly a possibility, and I've seen elsewhere Southwest will announce a new city with this schedule load. However the list of new flights seems a little dubious to me. FAT-LAX is barely 200 miles, and at time when they are cutting short haul flying left and right, it seems doubtful. And because Southwest has been contracting in the pacific northwest -- especially against Alaska -- it just doesn't seem likely they'd fly FAT-SEA. To my ears, the list of markets and frequencies seem like speculation only. They add up exacty to that magic number "8" which armchair analysts have insisted is Southwest's minimum threshold for adding a city. That alone makes the list dubious to me.

It's certainly *possible* that there's a kernel of truth to this, that FAT is indeed getting WN. But I find the list of markets and frequencies to be dubious.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9232 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Not many people in DEN, LAX, LAS, SEA, or PHX go to FAT

I disagree with you on PHX-FAT the route. I'm also on the proverbial teeter-totter about FAT-LAS. Fresno if memory serves is adjacent to Hwy 99; the Cali farm hwy route. It's well known migrant farm workers travel from the greater PHX area to the California central valley.

I'm surprised we didn't see a Oregon flight PDX or otherwise.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 9):

SNA requires a slot so they'd have to cancel something else. I don't see WN flying FAT- SNA. No local traffic and I don't think WN wants to fill the flight with VFR traffic to Mexico.


User currently offlinewhatusaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8972 times:

As much as I'd like to have WN in my home-town, I doubt there is any fact. FAT comes up in the system because of Volaris pairings. Volaris, by the way, is doing very well in Fresno but, it's a red eye so connections don't work.

WN would do very well to PHX and DEN. DEN is underserved by UA and is the traditional "go to" market for connections East.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8861 times:

Quoting whatusaid (Reply 13):
WN would do very well to PHX and DEN

I'd be a little weary; F9 couldn't make FAT-DEN a go. Some believe after the SCASD grant subsidies dried up. Citing a economics 101 proverb I'd say it t was more the economy and what the local market could and couldn't tolerate in the fare department. Loads were really good while the introductory fares were in play.

If WN DEN-FAT service comes to fruition it might be a route for a FL 717



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8842 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 14):
If WN DEN-FAT service comes to fruition it might be a route for a FL 717

I don't imagine them starting routes with an aircraft they've already decided to remove from the fleet.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 15):
I don't imagine them starting routes with an aircraft they've already decided to remove from the fleet.

I've not heard that officially. With that many airframes I just can't can't see them waiving a wand and have that many airframes going puff at one time. Over a period of three to five years maybe. They would be foolish not to fly them during any transition or removal from the fleet. If they had a buyer I suppose it could be expedited.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 16):
I've not heard that officially

You havent heard that they're selling them all to DL? It'll take through 2015.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...st-leases-planes-to-delta/800171/1


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8484 times:
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If indeed WN is going to start SEA-FAT, I wonder if AS will throw a 73G on the same route. They could do that and continue on to GDL or even SAN.

User currently offlinewhatusaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8463 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 14):
I'd be a little weary; F9 couldn't make FAT-DEN a go. Some believe after the SCASD grant subsidies dried up. Citing a economics 101 proverb I'd say it t was more the economy and what the local market could and couldn't tolerate in the fare department. Loads were really good while the introductory fares were in play.

If WN DEN-FAT service comes to fruition it might be a route for a FL

F9's only interest in Fresno was the govt money. They did virtually nothing to create business in this market. When they transitioned to the 1X 319, loads went way up, but a single flight a day against UA's usual 3X or 4X and the strong discount pricing of USAirways in this market was over and above what they could handle. That said, about 18 months after pulling out, they were knocking at the FAT door again wondering what funds might be available to restart service. FAT wasn't interested.

The concern at FAT is that if WN came in, existing airlines would take a hit. AS/QX has a strong following to SEA/PDX and the Northwest and took a chance on SAN (which is maybe B/E at best). G4's longtime LAS position would be toast. If G4's presence is down, we'd be concerned about our HNL and the prospects for OGG. FAT-HNL was the single most successful new city pairing ever for G4. That's largely due to their long-time presence here. Everyone knows G4... We need G4 in this market to create a buzz and prove routes that others wouldn't even look at. Keep in mind, FAT is far more leisure than business travel that other California markets.

While the City has always approached WN, and we had a verbal with their proposed nine departure schedule some years back and set aside two gates for them, it's just never happened, and the previous airport management urged caution. We might get bigger aircraft at the expense of cutbacks at the other carriers.

I'll believe it when I see it...


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25273 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8443 times:
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Quoting whatusaid (Reply 19):
F9's only interest in Fresno was the govt money. They did virtually nothing to create business in this market. When they transitioned to the 1X 319, loads went way up, but a single flight a day against UA's usual 3X or 4X and the strong discount pricing of USAirways in this market was over and above what they could handle.

Loads were only good in summer. In winter they were awful.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8319 times:

Quoting whatusaid (Reply 19):
While the City has always approached WN, and we had a verbal with their proposed nine departure schedule some years back and set aside two gates for them, it's just never happened, and the previous airport management urged caution. We might get bigger aircraft at the expense of cutbacks at the other carriers.

I just do not beleive , that in current valley economic conditions, FAT could support Southwest in the manner they need to be profitable. and I agree with Whatusaid, you need to be careful what you wish for sometimes, because the result is NOT what you expected. The amount of flights listed farther up in the thread, IF TRUE, would kill most of Eagle and UX flights to LAX and the connecting traffic they carry to domestic and international destinations.

PHX would put a huge crimp in US Airways Express also, and Horizon..well it might be gone and those easy connections at SEA/ PDX

IMHO, what FAT could stand is some incremental expansion of service either in frequency, aircraft size or destinations.

FAT could use the right sized aircraft for at least 1 RT daily to an upper midwest hub. Naturaly ORD would top the list, but DTW or even MSP would do. Probabaly a 319 or if an E-jet can make it would do also.

As much as I like the MD80's, it sure would be great if we got 738's from DFW sometime this year, the reliability of the 738 is needed.

Other than that, I really believe the market is served fairly well with all things considered.


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8319 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 12):

The 1 SNA flt would come from the 1 slot wasted FL flight to SFO.
WN could Indeed use some VFR traffic for it's SNA-MEX service.
It's MY understanding with interJet now in the market WN/FL can use the feed for MEX.
So along with the future code share any VFR feed will help the SNA-MEX market.
But again I don't see FAT becoming a WN city anytime soon.
Especially since they already cut so many other FL cities with higher yields than FAT with this merger.
wnfg 

[Edited 2013-01-27 11:42:38]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1472 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8307 times:

...so this ENTIRE post is based on essentially a "rumor"...

"my cousin's sister's boyfriend's cousin overheard someone say that someone else told them that......" Seriously?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8262 times:

Quoting whatusaid (Reply 19):
While the City has always approached WN, and we had a verbal with their proposed nine departure schedule some years back and set aside two gates for them, it's just never happened, and the previous airport management urged caution.

And keep in mind that the management before them refused WN's request for a dedicated gate to protect UA.

Regardless, I do see WN starting FAT, as it is one of the last remaining cities not on the WN and/or FL route map (CVG is another) that could be added under the vanishing WN eight-flight rule. WN is in the process of shifting their new-city focus to 2 to 5-flight/day cities that can meet their return on investment like DSM and FNT, Hawaiian markets, and the international markets inherited from the FL acquisition.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
25 whatusaid : Playing around the WN website, the only city pair recognized is FAT-MEX. Even then, once you've selected your dates, it comes up invalid on the next p
26 Silver1SWA : I know, right? Glad they finally changed the thread title appropriately.[Edited 2013-01-27 13:06:14]
27 SurfandSnow : I could see FAT working under the new WN model, something like 2x daily LAS, 1x daily PHX. Possibly DEN and/or SAN. They certainly wouldn't do SMF or
28 GentFromAlaska : Nope! And to add insult to injury I'm not sure how I missed it. I suppose in July I'm outside more in the garden or doing something in the yard which
29 Post contains images Deltal1011man : they start coming to Delta later this year and its 3 per month till all 88 are with Delta. We all miss stuff every now and then.
30 bobloblaw : There has to be local traffic, or else WN wont fly it. Also WN is not a LCC anymore. Their costs wont allow for lots of FAT flow traffic to Mexico vi
31 airliner371 : All i'm gonna say is, i'm not surprised its coming from you. I have found different results, I know already to say, lets agree to disagree, I'm gonna
32 ASFlyer : What is the new WN model? Any new cities they've begun recently are just FL cities that they're moving into. I'm not sure that this is the "new WN mo
33 DesertAir : I would add SAN to the schedule and axe SEA. ExpressJet ran a very successful FAT-SAN service. WN schedules for connectivity...uses PHX, LAS and DEN n
34 olddominion727 : keep in mind WN came into SJC and ran F9, AA, QQ out and made UA cut DEN flights to some UAX, drop SJC-ORD, and only retain LAX 2x daily and AA is dow
35 JONC777 : Interesting. .. just saw parental guidence today, and the grandparents flew from fresno to atlanta supposedly on SWA. . . . (SWA was a huge sponser in
36 FATFlyer : Interesting, this is the second time I've seen this rumor on different websites in recent weeks. I wonder if it is smoke about something or simply mul
37 SANFan : Hey 'Flyer I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this topic. You and whatu' are the 2 FAT-experts around here so it's good to hear from both of yo
38 N747PE : Well no word about WN coming to town on yesterdays news. I guess we will have to keep hoping and waiting
39 Tan Flyr : Mike, I wouldn't hold your breath !
40 Concordski : Would love to see ATL-FAT return. Delta used to use 2x 757s daily on this route in the 90s. I think WN could have a daily 737 on this route and make m
41 Tan Flyr : Delta NEVER started FAT-ATL..much less 2 757's. Sorry...you must have FAt confused with somewhere else. The largest DL jet ever in scheduled service
42 FAT5DEP : I worked for Delta in the 90's at FAT and thought that would have been crazy to see 2 757s there. I don't even think our airstairs could have reached
43 Concordski : I have a timetable that says otherwise from ~1993. I'll have to see if I can dig it up. Maybe it never came to be just as the recent 2007 attempt at
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