B2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 679 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4669 times:
787 hasn't been certified by CAAC and as a result, HU/CZ have not taken 787 deliveries yet so who knows when they will have 787s in hand. But considering DL was able to use 332's to fly DTW/HND, PEK/ORD shouldn't be a problem.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22026 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4621 times:
Neither AA nor HU have applied to codeshare with each other on this service. We discussed that matter last summer.
So as of now they would be competing against each other.
As we know AA has some terrible slot timings for its own ORD-PEK services, so its will be interesting to see what if anything it can manage to cooperate with HU.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
dtfg From China, joined Jan 2013, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4540 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): As we know AA has some terrible slot timings for its own ORD-PEK services, so its will be interesting to see what if anything it can manage to cooperate with HU.
HU posted the schedule on their facebook.
HU497 13:20 PEK - 13:30 ORD
HU498 15:30 ORD - 18:40+1 PEK
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8738 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4504 times:
Wow. Will that be the longest A330-200 route? I wonder what type of weight restrictions they will see. They can take a polar route to avoid winds (is the A330 certified for polar operations?), but that is still a very long route for the plane.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1727 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
Quoting dtfg (Reply 7): Bless AA if they are competing against HU
Although a 3x weekly service likely will rock the boat, I don't think it will overturn the ship for AA. Nevertheless, it does ramp up the urgency for AA to secure better slots in PEK in order for the nonstop flight to ORD to remain viable over the long turn.
AA has also been able to rely on cargo to help them out on the ORD-PEK route, but inevitably HU may take away some of that cargo traffic.
Curious to know how the code-share agreement between HU and AA will work out on this route if anyone wants to shed some light.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22026 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4123 times:
Regarding AA-HU codeshare, up to now the codeshare have been complimentary as airlines have not directly competed.
Its simple to codeshare when someone adds some routes to your network, its another to friendly codeshare with someone you compete head on with especially when there are no alliance links, or other commercial partnerships.
I'll be interested to see how things play out in the long run on the route.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
ba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8259 posts, RR: 56 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4008 times:
Good, nice to see HU add another international gateway.
I do see HU as being the future OW partner on China. They are the 4th largest carrier in China and the only one with no alignment alliance wise, OW must surely be talking to these guys, they are the only alliance without a Chinese partner, and before anyone says Cathay Pacific, that's Hong Kong, not China.
I've flown HU once myself, CAN-PEK on aboard and A340-600, nice flight and crews from memory.
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1727 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3879 times:
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 14): I do see HU as being the future OW partner on China. They are the 4th largest carrier in China and the only one with no alignment alliance wise, OW must surely be talking to these guys, they are the only alliance without a Chinese partner, and before anyone says Cathay Pacific, that's Hong Kong, not China.
OW desperately needs HU in the alliance, but unfortunately, there appears to be politics involved (at least based on what I've heard).
Agree with you on the CX situation. Cathay's relationship with AA and OW is lukewarm at best and aside from this, they don't provide the role and presence that the alliance needs in mainland China.
pudfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 116 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3749 times:
I know this has been discussed before but how much more capacity does ORD have at T5? Seems like its full now and in a couple of years there won't be any space. I've heard nothing about adding additional capacity.
davidho1985 From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2012, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3584 times:
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 15): OW desperately needs HU in the alliance, but unfortunately, there appears to be politics involved (at least based on what I've heard).
The biggest issue is CX as CX considered that HU's subsidiaries, Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express, are competiting with CX & Dragonair in Hong Kong. So CX is not willing to allow HU to join OW.
WROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 810 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3474 times:
Isn't CX partially owned by CZ so if they get tick off they can switch to *A. HU is nice on international routes, but domestically they are just average. HU can collect traffic from mainland China to ORD and beyond via AA and AA can do the opposite. UA has that ability with CZ.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 20, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3445 times:
Quoting WROORD (Reply 19): sn't CX partially owned by CZ so if they get tick off they can switch to *A.
CA (Air China, Star Alliance), not CZ (China Southern, SkyTeam), owns approximately 30% of CX. They have a reciprocal shareholding with CX also owning a little less than 20% of CA. Those figures as of 2011.
justinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 304 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2554 times:
Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 18): The biggest issue is CX as CX considered that HU's subsidiaries, Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express, are competiting with CX & Dragonair in Hong Kong. So CX is not willing to allow HU to join OW.
But actually both Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express target at different customers. They generally focus at leisure travelers especially after the failure of the all-business flights to LHR. With the fact that the main hub of HNA Group is PEK nowadays, CX really should approve this move.
davidho1985 From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2012, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2410 times:
Quoting justinlee (Reply 21): But actually both Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express target at different customers. They generally focus at leisure travelers especially after the failure of the all-business flights to LHR. With the fact that the main hub of HNA Group is PEK nowadays, CX really should approve this move.
Both Hong Kong Airlines (HX) and Hong Kong Express (UO) are catching up, especially they have the strong financial backup from HU. Actually their services and the hardware are more or less on par with CX (Regional flights) and KA.
For business-oriented flights, both CX & KA still have the advantages over HX & UO, however, on leisure route, the competition between them are quite intense.
For all-business flight to LHR, it made no commercial sense. However, due to the air traffic rights, HX (or UO) is not allowed to have more than 100 something seats per flight, therefore, they came up with the idea of full business flight and hope that the route can survive until the re-negotiation of the air traffic right (which will enable them to use the normal configured aircraft)
ordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 581 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2348 times:
I will welcome them in, fares from ORD-PEK have been insane often $1400+ R/T. I do wish them the best, but this could be a tough job with the 332. I would admit though it would be nice if CA or CZ started pax service instead, but will take anything. It is always nice to see some new metal at ORD.
TWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2186 times:
I believe this may be the longest A330-200 route to date. I couldn't find the thread with that discussion, but I remember ICN-NBO, LAX-AKL and DTW-HND being some of the longest routes.
HU ORD-PEK 6579sm
QF LAX-AKL 6504sm
DL DTW-HND 6427sm
KE ICN-NBO 6250sm
'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
25 jayunited: I think there is enough demand in Chicago to support 3x PEK flights for 4 days a week. I think it's strange that HU is starting ORD-PEK service in Se
26 strfyr51: This is very true BUT! what kind of possible backing is the Chinese govt. going to give to make sure Hainan won't go bust on the route. Peking (Beiji
27 United787: I wonder if HU is still planning on this as a 787 route and assuming they will be flying by then (god help Boeing if they aren't). But, it is better P
28 LAXintl: Not on paper. PDEW is mere 265 per day Not even West Coast gateways of LAX and SFO support 3x daily to PEK.
29 jcwr56: All current long term leases end in 2018 airport wide and it's my understanding that there has been little formal talks regarding a new long term lea
30 jayunited: Obviously you are looking at the wrong paper!! Look the same thing was said when AA started service to PEK from Chicago and their flight is doing jus
31 thekennady: ORD-PEK is not soley supported by O&D. ORD is a gateway to asia from the midwest, east coast and south. AA and HU will work together and pull tra
32 LAXintl: Yes, I'm well aware that AA and UA must rely heavily on connections to make ORD-China work. I see the numbers. My point is that the ORD market in itse
33 IndianicWorld: In regards to CX, it seems to have issues with most of the OW members. Whether it be AA, BA or QF, there isn't exactly a very friendly relationship wi
34 davidho1985: Perhaps CX know OW needs them (in Asia, esp in China) more than what they need from OW.
35 thekennady: The 787 issues should be resolved by sep, the a330 was mentioned for Pr reasons Thanks...i knew it was large. And cant forget HU may be factoring in
36 justinlee: If you say that to CA, I will agree. But Hainan Airlines is really different. It's not actually state owned, but owned by Hainan provincial governmen
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