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British Airways 737 In The 90s Help  
User currently offlineskycub From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 300 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8102 times:

Hi all...

I am hoping someone can answer this question.

In the mid-1990s what 737 series did British Airways operate?

I know, at the time (looking through the photos on the anet database) that OTHER carriers operating as BA (such as Deutche BA and TAT and GB Airways) operated 737s on BA's behalf.... but what series 737s were actually operated by the TRUE BA in the mid-90s?

From what I have gathered from the photo database, it looks like probably the 737-200 and 737-400 with the 737-300 operated by other carriers on their behalf..... but I don't know if that is correct.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!


My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2898 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8097 times:

This link might help: BA historic fleet, with delivery date and exit date:
http://www.planespotters.net/Airline...ays?show=historic#AirlineFleetList


User currently offlinebabaero From Philippines, joined Jan 2002, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8050 times:
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Basically mid nineties 737-200s , plus four 737-300 leased from Mearsk but based in Berlin, and also the 737-300s aquired from Dan-Air. then came the 737-400s around mid nineties

User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7759 times:

The 734s, G-DOC*s started arriving 1992 if memory served right. I remember working in Kingston in 92 and seeing first of the official classics ordered by BA. All other classics were from Maresk, Dan air and later on GB airways.
BA still operated plenty of 732s in 90s and quite a few we're painted in the utopia world tails livery.

Does anyone know why registered G-DOC as usually BA associate with aircraft:

G-CIV*=400
G-BYG*=big
G-ZZZ*=777
G-DOC*= Just a random reg or a coded association?


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7648 times:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/British%20Airways.htm
Also worth a look.
Not sure of G-DOC*, G-GBTA was Guild of British Travel Agents and G-RAES was the Royal Aeronautical Society. I never got G-BYG* as big until now. I'll get me coat.....
G-VII* was of course roman for 7 which is why they got G-RAES and not G-VIII (!)


User currently offlinebluesky73 From UK - England, joined Oct 2012, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

Sorry the 734s (G-DOC*s) started delivery in Oct 91 but remember them becoming regular site in 92.

User currently offlineshuttle9juliet From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7364 times:
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Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 3):

G-DOCA- Z stood for DOmestiCAircraft, G-BNLA, Boeing New Large Aircraft , G-BNWA, Boeing New Wide Body ect.

As for the G-BYGA reg, these don't stand for anything but were just normal sequence on the register.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7300 times:

Weren't G-BNL* and G-BNW* also in sequence? I think they were.

User currently offlineshuttle9juliet From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7240 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 7):

Yeah both were,are..


User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Quoting skycub (Thread starter):
In the mid-1990s what 737 series did British Airways operate?

In the mid - 90s, BA were operating the -436 at LHR (G-DOCx series). At LGW there were a number of -236s, -436s, but we also had 7 x ex-Dan Air -400s. 3 were originally Air Europe (G-BVNM,'NN & 'NO) and they were -4S3 models. The other 4 were -4Q8s (G-BSNV,'NW & G-BUHJ,'HK). Very occasionally we also operated GB Airways aeroplanes, but the only one that I think we used was G-BUHL which was another -4Q8.

When I left the fleet in 1998, we also had 2 x -300 a/c. They were G-XMAN and G-ODUS (I think). These were ex BHX/MAN based and I think were -3Q8s.

I hope that helps.

Cheers
 



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineshuttle9juliet From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7065 times:
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Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 9):

Was G-OFRA there too? I remember these aircraft well.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7258 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6907 times:

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 9):
When I left the fleet in 1998, we also had 2 x -300 a/c. They were G-XMAN and G-ODUS (I think). These were ex BHX/MAN based and I think were -3Q8s.
Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 10):
Was G-OFRA there too? I remember these aircraft well.

BA leased four 737 36Qs from Boullioun:

G-ODUS was previously operated by Deutshe BA and was initially operated from 17 April 1998 by BA Regional out of MAN. It was transferred to the BA EuroGatwick fleet on 13 June 00 where it stayed until it was returned to the lessor on 11 February 02.

G-OFRA was delivered to BA new and was ferried BFI-YYR-LGW on 5/6 May 98 in BA livery with a white tail. After its tail was painted and it cabin furbished it was delivered to BA Regional at MAN on 20 May. It was transferred to the BA EuroGatwick fleet in April 00 where it stayed until it was returned to the lessor in March 02.

G-OHAJ was was ferried BFI-YYR-LGW on 2/3 June 98 in BA livery with a white tail. After its tail was painted and its cabin furbished it was delivered to BA Regional at BHX on 18 June. It operated for BA Regional until the end of April 02 when it was parked at LGW for three weeks before it was returned to its lessor.

G-OMUC was in full BA "Colum" (Ireland) livery when it was ferried BFI-YYR-LGW on 30 June/1 July 98 for cabin furbishment. It was delivered to BA Regional at MAN on 20 July. It operated for BA Regional Until it was returned to its lessor in June 02.

BA also leased two 737 36Ns from GECAS:

G-XBHX was delivered to BA new and was ferried BFI-YYR-LGW on 21/22 May 98 in BA livery with a white tail. After its tail was painted and it cabin furbished it was delivered to BA Regional at BHX on 6 June. On 21 December 00 it was transferred to the BA EuroGatwick fleet. It was withdrawn from use on 30 November 02. It was returned to GECAS on 9 December.

G-XMAN was ferried BFI-YYR-LGW on 18/1 9 June 98 again in a white=tail BA livery . After tail painting and cabin furbishment it was delivered to BA Regional at MAN on 10 July. On 9 May 00 it was transferred to the BA EuroGatwick fleet. It was withdrawn from use on 27 December 02 and painted white at LHR in mid February before being returned to Spar Leasing in early April.


User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
G-XMAN was ferried BFI-YYR-LGW on 18/1 9 June 98 again in a white=tail BA livery . After tail painting and cabin furbishment it was delivered to BA Regional at MAN on 10 July. On 9 May 00 it was transferred to the BA EuroGatwick fleet. It was withdrawn from use on 27 December 02 and painted white at LHR in mid February before being returned to Spar Leasing in early April.

Hi VV701, thanks for the clarification. I don't have access to my logbook at the moment, but now you have given us the comprehensive list I remember that it was G-XMAN and G-OFRA that I flew just before leaving the fleet in 2000. I also remember that they were different models as you highlight.

I'm very confident about the -4S3 and 4Q8 fleet though as I flew those many times!

Cheers
 



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8430 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4277 times:
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Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 12):
I'm very confident about the -4S3 and 4Q8 fleet though as I flew those many times!

- Indeed, as did I once they joined BA.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7258 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 9):
Very occasionally we also operated GB Airways aeroplanes, but the only one that I think we used was G-BUHL which was another -4Q8.

Thanks for this. I recall seeing photos of GB Airways 737s, if I recall correctly both 732s and 734s, at airports (like ARN and ZRH) not served by GT:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johan Ljungdahl



I had assumed that they were being operated by GT on charter flights as, for example, the aircraft pictured above on 8 August 97 at ARN was leased by GT from 18 March 97 to 27 Jaqnuary 98. But from your comment it is probable that the aircraft were actually being operated by or for BA on scheduled flights. But which? Your comment strongly suggests that they were being operated with BA flight and cabin crews. Is this correct? Do you know if these flights originated at LGW, LHR or both? Can you recall whether they were ad hoc operations of a single flight or if they were transferred to BA to operate several flights?

Sorry to be so inquisitive and such a bore. But many thanks for any further insight you can give.


User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):
I had assumed that they were being operated by GT on charter flights as, for example, the aircraft pictured above on 8 August 97 at ARN

Hi VV701. It's really difficult to say! By '97 BA were only operating the -436 at LHR, whereas BA (EOG) were operating the -236 and the -400 fleet as previous. I was not 'dual rated', so only flew the -400s and latterly the 2 x -300s as previously discussed also. I do recall getting a letter from Flt Ops management stating that we would occasionally 'borrow' GB Airways aircraft if our fleet fell short for tech reasons etc.

So, the photo you showed could be 'DB being 'borrowed' by EOG to operate LGW - ARN (we certainly operated that route at the time), or it could be being operated by a GB crew on a sub charter to BA. It also could be (as you originally surmised) a charter being operated by GB Airways.

Sorry to be so 'woolly' on this, maybe one of my colleagues who was 'dual rated' at the time will remember using ex BA GB Airways a/c on an occasional basis!

Cheers
 



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):
the aircraft pictured above on 8 August 97 at ARN was leased by GT from 18 March 97 to 27 Jaqnuary 98.

Bit long ago for memory, but I remember that LGW-ARN nightstop was operated by GB airways for a whole season about then. We tried to charge them for working their aircraft, but never got any money as it was central budget!!
The crews looked like BA, but I assume they were GB crew in BA uniform.


User currently offlineshuttle9juliet From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3995 times:
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Remember the 737 436s went back to LHR around 2001'2 to backfill for the departing 75s, until more 320s arrived..

User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 16):
The crews looked like BA, but I assume they were GB crew in BA uniform.

I think that the GB cabin crew wore BA uniform, but usually the flight crew used GB uniform.

Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 17):
Remember the 737 436s went back to LHR around 2001'2 to backfill for the departing 75s, until more 320s arrived..

Some, but not all, from memory.

Cheers
 



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7258 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 15):
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 16):

Thank you both for your input. As a well known retailer says "Every little helps".

While on the question of BA's 737s I have always been a little mystified by their "first" aircraft, 236 G-BGDA (Line # 599). It took to the air for the first time on 12 September 1979 as N1285E. But it was not delivered by Boeing to BA until over two years later on 4 December 1981. By then all the other aircraft from the BA initial order for 19 aircraft and the first follow-up order for nine more aircraft had been delivered and in service with BA for around eight months or longer. (The 27th of these aircraft , G-BGJM (Line # 751) was delivered on 8 April 1981.)

I had always wondered about this two-year delay in delivering a well established product (with the 737-200 Advanced already around ten years old). Was the delay somehow associated with BA's need for the same Category 3A Autoland Certification on their 732 and 752 fleets that they already had on their HS 121 Trident fleet? Recognising that the BA and DL 752 launch orders were placed in February1979 and that BA and its predecessor, BEA had been operating Tridents with an autoland capability since 1965 was it associated with developing an autoland capability for the 757?

[Edited 2013-01-31 09:43:02]

User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3562 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
Was the delay somehow associated with BA's need for the same Category 3A Autoland Certification on their 732 and 752 fleets that they already had on their HS 121 Trident fleet?

Yes. The BA B737-200 had a new digital AFCS, automatic flight control system, never seen on a B737 before. It had double autopilot actuators to drive this. So the aircraft were quite different from previous B737 in this regard, and Boeing kept GDA for two years for systems development.


User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
Was the delay somehow associated with BA's need for the same Category 3A Autoland Certification on their 732 and 752 fleets that they already had on their HS 121 Trident fleet?

Hi VV701. I think that you are probably right....and wrong!

Before I start on the right bit..The Trident, Tristar, 757 and 747-236 fleets (& Concorde I believe?) were all fitted with CAT3B autoland. Certainly in the Tristar & 757 case this was certified for 0ft Decision Altitude (DA) and 75m touchdown visibility (RVR) on appropriately equiped runways (LHR, LGW, BHX, MAN, GLA, EDI & NCL are all so equiped in the UK).

The 747-136 fleet were only fitted with 2 x autopilots and were therefore only capable of CAT3A (50ft DA, 200m TD RVR), whereas the 747-236 fleet were fitted with 3 x autopilots. If an autoland was planned or anticipated whilst flying a -236 into a suitably equiped airport using Low Visibility Procedures (LVPs), then the Flight Engineer would go through a lengthy checklist to seperate parts of the electrical system (in particular) to ensure that the 3 x autopliots had, effectively, 3 different power sources. This effectively created a 'triplex' system that was required for CAT3B. This was also called a 'fail operational system', which means that should one element fail (autopilot, ILS receiver, electric system etc.) then the other 2 parts are still capable of performing a successful autoland. As the 747-136 was only dual at best, this is called a 'fail passive' system and is not capable of an autoland with similar failures and is therefore only CAT3A.

The Trident, as you know was pioneering in the triplex autoland sense. The Tristar had a brilliant system that was effectively a dual/dual system and definitely 'fail operational'. The 757/767 was designed from the outset as a triplex/fail operational/CAT3B system and was/is very good. The 747-436 fleet has a very similar system fitted. The A320 fleet has 2 x autopilots fitted but they are both dual channel, so like the Tristar, has effectively a dual/dual system that is fully CAT3B capable. In fact, the A320, should one autopilot be unserviceable, is still CAT3A. I'm sure that Concorde had a triplex CAT3B system, but I'm no expert on Concorde!

....and the 'right' bit!....

The 737 fleet is and was dual/fail passive/CAT3A. It is therefore, in the autoland sense, the poor relation in the main BA fleets.

However, the 737-236 was (along with the Lufthansa -230 a/c) the first version to have fitted a new autopilot that was more advanced than previous versions for the 737. Although with only 2 x autopilots, the Mode Control Panel (MCP) was (and is) quite similar in usage terms to the 757.

So, I suspect that G-BGDA was used for autopilot/CAT3A development for some while after the initial BA delivery. She would then have been 'refurbished' before delivery, I'm sure.

Cheers
 



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineBA777ER236 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 20):
Yes. The BA B737-200 had a new digital AFCS, automatic flight control system, never seen on a B737 before. It had double autopilot actuators to drive this. So the aircraft were quite different from previous B737 in this regard, and Boeing kept GDA for two years for systems development.

Thanks Tristarsteve, I was typing out my reply when you posted yours, so you've elaborated on the actual autoplilot bit!

Cheers
 



Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3930 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 21):
Although with only 2 x autopilots, the Mode Control Panel (MCP) was (and is) quite similar in usage terms to the 757.

Just to add that all previous B737-200 built had a single channel autopilot. If it failed it failed, so there was no autoland capability.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7258 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 20):
Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 21):

Again many thanks to both of you.


25 Robbb : THIS MIGHT HELP: The list below shows all the 737s (AFAIK) operated by BA with the years they joined and left the fleet (if no leaving date is shown t
26 VV701 : I think you could also have included: 200s EI-BTW leased from GPA 88 89 then rereg. G-IBTW - see below EI-BTZ leased from GPA 88 88 then rereg. G-IBT
27 YVRLTN : When did BA order the 734? And why did they order it instead of the 320 - or as well as the 320 - when they were taking over BCal's 320 order?
28 Tristarsteve : It was ordered around the end of 1988, after the first A320 were in service. I remember that both types were considered, and the B734 was ordered. Wh
29 FlyCaledonian : I also think that around the time the order was made BA was ordering significant numbers of 747-436 and 767-336ER aircraft from Beoing. So I suspectt
30 Post contains images VV701 : In October 1988 BA placed the order for 24 Boeing 737 300/400/500 - type to be determined. At the same time they ordered six 763ERs and a single 752.
31 gabrielchew : Fascinating! I had no idea these letters actually meant anything. I like the Virgin way of numbering a bit better, although obviously this doesn't wo
32 shuttle9juliet : I am thinking of others, G-STBA, debatable at work but most think it's StreTched Boeing Aircraft , but others think it's named after our maintenance
33 robbb : Always happy to be corrected. I had completely forgotten the Transavia aircraft. Were these actually operated by BA or wet-leased? I didn't include th
34 skipness1E : The G-IBT* aircraft were never flown in BA colours as I recall, thought G-IBTW appears to have flown for Caledonian. The Transavia aircraft remained o
35 Post contains images ACDC8 : I saw a B737 with blanked out titles arriving at YLW last week, the reg is N405GT and me being curious, I looked up to see if I can find out where sh
36 Post contains links and images VV701 : EI-BTW was leased by BA on 1 June 88. It was operated painted white with "British Airways" titles until reregistered G-IBTW to BA on 11 April 89. It
37 Post contains images VV701 : Should have said that the titles on the right side of the aircraft in Transavia colours read a little differently, namely "British Airways on lease fr
38 jwhite9185 : They certainly did - I flew G-DOCC between LHR and MAN in October 2001. Replaced the scheduled 757. Then on the return from MAN, the flight previous
39 BSRadar : Quoting W701 & FlyCaledonian: "Another factor that probably influenced the BA negotiations with Boeing was that the order was placed at a time whe
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