san88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 85 posts, RR: 1 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10049 times:
While spotting JAL 777 (787 temporary substitute) in SAN this morning there was construction on the main taxiway B/B1. Several aircraft crossed active runway 27 onto taxiway C and held for takeoff on the full runway. Several WN aircraft and QX requested to hold short at taxiway D, and took off at the displaced threshold. It was rare sight in SAN.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4538 posts, RR: 26 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9955 times:
Quoting san88 (Thread starter): Several WN aircraft and QX requested to hold short at taxiway D, and took off at the displaced threshold. It was rare sight in SAN.
Actually, that WN aircraft is departing from the threshold. The displaced threshold is the portion of runway behind the threshold that is used for departures but not for landings.
[Edited 2013-01-30 14:33:59]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4538 posts, RR: 26 Reply 3, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9837 times:
Quoting san88 (Reply 2): Did you get the 777 photos?
I did! I'm still at work until later tonight so I'll post a teaser from my camera's LCD.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
SANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 609 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9654 times:
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1): Actually, that WN aircraft is departing from the threshold. The displaced threshold is the portion of runway behind the threshold that is used for departures but not for landings.
Did the JAL 777 use the displaced threshold for takeoff? I'm thinking the 777 would
need the entire runway for departure? I wonder what kind of construction they're doing
to the taxiway?
gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6701 times:
Coronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1590 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6583 times:
Quoting san88 (Thread starter): Several WN aircraft and QX requested to hold short at taxiway D, and took off at the displaced threshold.
Once took-off half way down the runway abeam with the fire station at taxiway B-6 on a Golden West Dash-7 back in 1980. Great plane.
EASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 384 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6329 times:
This is off the topic a bit, but aren't the runways long enough to handle 747s in heat and full....ie BA747..
SKC From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5851 times:
The length of 9/27 is 9401'. The threshold is displaced 1821' which still provides 7580' for departure on Rwy 27, still more than enough for a fully loaded 737-700.
And Silver, technically, the SWA flight was departing from the displaced threshold. The threshold is where the physical beginning of the runway is. On SAN Rwy 27 they've displaced the threshold 1821' forward for landing. Departures typically occur from the threshold, or the physical beginning of the runway.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4538 posts, RR: 26 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5497 times:
Quoting SKC (Reply 13): And Silver, technically, the SWA flight was departing from the displaced threshold. The threshold is where the physical beginning of the runway is. On SAN Rwy 27 they've displaced the threshold 1821' forward for landing. Departures typically occur from the threshold, or the physical beginning of the runway.
Well now im confused and the FAA definition isn't helping as it seems to back us both up. So which is it? I always understood that the displaced threshold, according to runway markings, is the portion with the arrows pointing to the runway threshold (piano keys).
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
gatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5469 times:
Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12): This is off the topic a bit, but aren't the runways long enough to handle 747s in heat and full....ie BA747..
A fully loaded BA 747 needs just over 10,000 feet of runway on a standard day, zero elevation. Runaway length would only increase with with an increase in temperature, so no.
SKC From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5402 times:
Easiest way is that imagine they lay out a strip of concrete for a new runway and mark it accordingly. You have thresholds at either end, typically, where the concrete starts.
They later decide that the hill at one end makes it unsafe for a normal 3* descent profile to landing, so they "move" or displace the threshold 1000'. The original threshold is still there, just only usable for departures, where the hill isn't a factor.
Because the "piano keys" are really markings for landing aircraft, they displace those as well as other standard runway markings.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4538 posts, RR: 26 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4499 times:
Quoting SKC (Reply 17):
Easiest way is that imagine they lay out a strip of concrete for a new runway and mark it accordingly. You have thresholds at either end, typically, where the concrete starts.
They later decide that the hill at one end makes it unsafe for a normal 3* descent profile to landing, so they "move" or displace the threshold 1000'. The original threshold is still there, just only usable for departures, where the hill isn't a factor.
Because the "piano keys" are really markings for landing aircraft, they displace those as well as other standard runway markings.
[Edited 2013-01-31 11:06:58]
Okay, that makes sense. I stand corrected so apologies to the OP.
I always thought that when describing the location of the runway threshold, you go by the threshold markings or "piano keys" and displaced threshold refers to the portion of runway behind the threshold that is available for taxi, takeoff or landing rollout. In my quest to get this straight, I have seen it defined both ways.
[Edited 2013-01-31 12:13:08]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
WarmNuts From United States of America, joined May 2006, 92 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4394 times:
Out of boredom and curiousity I superimposed a photo taken of the Dreamliner on its inaugural arrival with the above photo. I was somewhat surprised to see just how much larger the 772 appears than the 788:
StudeDave From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 392 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2617 times:
Quoting SKC (Reply 17): They later decide that the hill at one end makes it unsafe for a normal 3* descent profile to landing, so they "move" or displace the threshold 1000'. The original threshold is still there, just only usable for departures, where the hill isn't a factor.
I thought the displaced threshold was due to construction of that parking garage just east of the runway?
StudeDave
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
25 Silver1SWA: For what it's worth, I've asked a few of our pilots about it today. It seems there is the technical definition brought up by SKC, but in practice mos
26 WarmNuts: Thank you both... Yeah, I was fairly surprised to see just one other spotter in the spotting lot, especially considering the rarity and temporary sta
27 Scooter: Well, there's this little thing called "work" that prevents most of us from getting out there on a weekday morning! I wish I could have been there to
28 SKC: That was a hypothetical roughly based on SAN. I used a hill just for an example.
29 WarmNuts: Yeah, I forgot that JA66's inaugural arrival in the Dreamliner took place on a Sunday. Nonetheless, I guess I expected to see more than one. You know
30 Silver1SWA: Well that little thing called work is precisely the reason I get to be there for these things! I win.
31 QANTAS747-438: I'm sorry, but what is the point of this thread? A WN jet took off at the piano-keys of a runway instead of the threshold???
32 WarmNuts: I know... but do you have to rub it in? I mean, I'm making about half what I did in my career, so I need such perks...
33 Silver1SWA: A couple shots from Wednesday... JAL B772 - SAN by Silver1SWA (Ryan Pastorino), on Flickr JAL B772 - SAN by Silver1SWA (Ryan Pastorino), on Flickr [E
34 SANFan: Thank you Silver'! Gorgeous pix as always and very much appreciated by those of us who (for whatever reason) couldn't be there in person! (BTW, do you
35 Boeing717200: It couldn't have been. Here you can see it displaced and no parking structure. Has to be mid 1970's:
36 lindy field: Great photos, Ryan! Since that 777 presumably isn't fully loaded, it must take off from SAN a bit like a rocket! Cheers, Edward
37 Scooter: Great shots Ryan - thanks for the close-up look!
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