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Rare WN Threshold Takeoff In SAN 1/30  
User currently offlinesan88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 102 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11154 times:

While spotting JAL 777 (787 temporary substitute) in SAN this morning there was construction on the main taxiway B/B1. Several aircraft crossed active runway 27 onto taxiway C and held for takeoff on the full runway. Several WN aircraft and QX requested to hold short at taxiway D, and took off at the displaced threshold. It was rare sight in SAN.

http://youtu.be/rL8dN2wPBXs

http://youtu.be/cHatq3NZdhI (QX holding at D and US on taxiway C)


http://youtu.be/mnsXHBn9rR0

and JAL 777 Landing today (you can see QX and WN holding at D)


Cheers!

[Edited 2013-01-30 14:37:42]


sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11060 times:
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Quoting san88 (Thread starter):
Several WN aircraft and QX requested to hold short at taxiway D, and took off at the displaced threshold. It was rare sight in SAN.

Actually, that WN aircraft is departing from the threshold. The displaced threshold is the portion of runway behind the threshold that is used for departures but not for landings.  

[Edited 2013-01-30 14:33:59]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinesan88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11034 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):
Actually, that WN aircraft is departing from the threshold.

THANKS RYAN   Did you get the 777 photos?

[Edited 2013-01-30 14:36:00]


sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10942 times:
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Quoting san88 (Reply 2):
Did you get the 777 photos?

I did! I'm still at work until later tonight so I'll post a teaser from my camera's LCD



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 758 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10759 times:
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Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 1):
Actually, that WN aircraft is departing from the threshold. The displaced threshold is the portion of runway behind the threshold that is used for departures but not for landings.


Did the JAL 777 use the displaced threshold for takeoff? I'm thinking the 777 would
need the entire runway for departure? I wonder what kind of construction they're doing
to the taxiway?

[Edited 2013-01-30 15:14:35]


PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlineDrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10760 times:

Wow what a great shot of it!!! Great lighting! I'll have to head down to my spot Sunday to watch it


Flying is relaxing!
User currently offlinesanflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10424 times:

Great videos san88! Are you on the roof of the Port Building?

User currently offlineWarmNuts From United States of America, joined May 2006, 94 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10194 times:

That was pretty cool today...  http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/556/dsc0035bu.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5923/dsc0036ll.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/46/dsc0053dq.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2065/dsc0062hm.jpg

[Edited 2013-01-30 17:52:54]

User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

So I'm confused....They took off from a point down the runway? Like a quarter less runway! Is that a private 727 on the ramp?

User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3761 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7862 times:

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 8):
So I'm confused....They took off from a point down the runway? Like a quarter less runway!

Yes. I'm not sure it was 1/4 of the runway worth, but yes.


User currently offlinegatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7806 times:

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 8):
Is that a private 727 on the ramp?

Yep

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...&page_limit=15&thumbnails=



Cha brro
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7688 times:

Quoting san88 (Thread starter):
Several WN aircraft and QX requested to hold short at taxiway D, and took off at the displaced threshold.

Once took-off half way down the runway abeam with the fire station at taxiway B-6 on a Golden West Dash-7 back in 1980. Great plane.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 8):
Is that a private 727 on the ramp?

Just to be clear, it is at the FBO, Landmark Aviation, and not at the airline terminal.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

This is off the topic a bit, but aren't the runways long enough to handle 747s in heat and full....ie BA747..

User currently offlineSKC From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6956 times:

The length of 9/27 is 9401'. The threshold is displaced 1821' which still provides 7580' for departure on Rwy 27, still more than enough for a fully loaded 737-700.

And Silver, technically, the SWA flight was departing from the displaced threshold. The threshold is where the physical beginning of the runway is. On SAN Rwy 27 they've displaced the threshold 1821' forward for landing. Departures typically occur from the threshold, or the physical beginning of the runway.


User currently offlineAerowrench From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6895 times:

Very cool pic of the JAL 777.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12):
his is off the topic a bit, but aren't the runways long enough to handle 747s in heat and full....ie BA747..

I would suspect that 747 service is either range limited or weight restricted based on the departure 25R preference for MTOW 747 departures at LAX.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6602 times:
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Quoting SKC (Reply 13):
And Silver, technically, the SWA flight was departing from the displaced threshold. The threshold is where the physical beginning of the runway is. On SAN Rwy 27 they've displaced the threshold 1821' forward for landing. Departures typically occur from the threshold, or the physical beginning of the runway.

Well now im confused and the FAA definition isn't helping as it seems to back us both up. So which is it? I always understood that the displaced threshold, according to runway markings, is the portion with the arrows pointing to the runway threshold (piano keys).



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinegatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6574 times:

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12):
This is off the topic a bit, but aren't the runways long enough to handle 747s in heat and full....ie BA747..

A fully loaded BA 747 needs just over 10,000 feet of runway on a standard day, zero elevation. Runaway length would only increase with with an increase in temperature, so no.



Cha brro
User currently offlineSKC From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6507 times:

Easiest way is that imagine they lay out a strip of concrete for a new runway and mark it accordingly. You have thresholds at either end, typically, where the concrete starts.

They later decide that the hill at one end makes it unsafe for a normal 3* descent profile to landing, so they "move" or displace the threshold 1000'. The original threshold is still there, just only usable for departures, where the hill isn't a factor.

Because the "piano keys" are really markings for landing aircraft, they displace those as well as other standard runway markings.

[Edited 2013-01-31 11:06:58]

User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5604 times:
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Quoting SKC (Reply 17):

Easiest way is that imagine they lay out a strip of concrete for a new runway and mark it accordingly. You have thresholds at either end, typically, where the concrete starts.

They later decide that the hill at one end makes it unsafe for a normal 3* descent profile to landing, so they "move" or displace the threshold 1000'. The original threshold is still there, just only usable for departures, where the hill isn't a factor.

Because the "piano keys" are really markings for landing aircraft, they displace those as well as other standard runway markings.

[Edited 2013-01-31 11:06:58]




Okay, that makes sense. I stand corrected so apologies to the OP.

I always thought that when describing the location of the runway threshold, you go by the threshold markings or "piano keys" and displaced threshold refers to the portion of runway behind the threshold that is available for taxi, takeoff or landing rollout. In my quest to get this straight, I have seen it defined both ways.  Confused

[Edited 2013-01-31 12:13:08]


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineWarmNuts From United States of America, joined May 2006, 94 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5499 times:

Out of boredom and curiousity I superimposed a photo taken of the Dreamliner on its inaugural arrival with the above photo. I was somewhat surprised to see just how much larger the 772 appears than the 788:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3968/777787comp.jpg


User currently offlinepwdalmech From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

--out of boredom and curiousity I superimposed...--

I like it, nice comparison



Pure Power
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Quoting WarmNuts (Reply 19):
I superimposed a photo

Great job. Very interesting.

bb


User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1064 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

They could get 500 feet more out of SNA if they did the same thing. How much would 500 feet help?


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlinesan88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

Quoting sanflyr (Reply 6):
Great videos san88! Are you on the roof of the Port Building?

I wish, I was on India street hence the eye-soar of power lines in the shot. Still looking for ways to get closer on a building somewhere

Quoting WarmNuts (Reply 7):
That was pretty cool today...  



I was wondering where all the spotters were at, no one was really out to see the 777

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 18):
so apologies to the OP.

  



sit on the Captain side when you fly into SAN
User currently offlineStudeDave From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Quoting SKC (Reply 17):
They later decide that the hill at one end makes it unsafe for a normal 3* descent profile to landing, so they "move" or displace the threshold 1000'. The original threshold is still there, just only usable for departures, where the hill isn't a factor.

I thought the displaced threshold was due to construction of that parking garage just east of the runway?




StudeDave



Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
25 Post contains images Silver1SWA : For what it's worth, I've asked a few of our pilots about it today. It seems there is the technical definition brought up by SKC, but in practice mos
26 WarmNuts : Thank you both... Yeah, I was fairly surprised to see just one other spotter in the spotting lot, especially considering the rarity and temporary sta
27 Post contains images Scooter : Well, there's this little thing called "work" that prevents most of us from getting out there on a weekday morning! I wish I could have been there to
28 SKC : That was a hypothetical roughly based on SAN. I used a hill just for an example.
29 Post contains images WarmNuts : Yeah, I forgot that JA66's inaugural arrival in the Dreamliner took place on a Sunday. Nonetheless, I guess I expected to see more than one. You know
30 Post contains images Silver1SWA : Well that little thing called work is precisely the reason I get to be there for these things! I win.
31 QANTAS747-438 : I'm sorry, but what is the point of this thread? A WN jet took off at the piano-keys of a runway instead of the threshold???
32 Post contains images WarmNuts : I know... but do you have to rub it in? I mean, I'm making about half what I did in my career, so I need such perks...
33 Post contains links and images Silver1SWA : A couple shots from Wednesday... JAL B772 - SAN by Silver1SWA (Ryan Pastorino), on Flickr JAL B772 - SAN by Silver1SWA (Ryan Pastorino), on Flickr [E
34 Post contains images SANFan : Thank you Silver'! Gorgeous pix as always and very much appreciated by those of us who (for whatever reason) couldn't be there in person! (BTW, do you
35 Post contains links and images Boeing717200 : It couldn't have been. Here you can see it displaced and no parking structure. Has to be mid 1970's:
36 lindy field : Great photos, Ryan! Since that 777 presumably isn't fully loaded, it must take off from SAN a bit like a rocket! Cheers, Edward
37 Scooter : Great shots Ryan - thanks for the close-up look!
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