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Cathay Pacific Evaluating A380 And 748i Again  
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6640 posts, RR: 78
Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38478 times:

Interesting statements by Cathay Pacific CEO John Slosar:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_02_01_2013_p03-01-543373.xml

I really hope the carrier will finally place a VLA order. Would be great to see both A380 and 748i in the fleet, but I guess that's unlikely...


PH


Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
251 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6336 posts, RR: 39
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38257 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
Would be great to see both A380 and 748i in the fleet, but I guess that's unlikely...

Indeed.. Especially if the fleet is only going to be around 10-20. I don't really see them needing more than 20; at least to start with. Slosar has been publicly talking about this decision for at least a month, even if it has been widely known that CX has been interested in a VLA.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38241 times:

I think they go for 747-8i, due to the commonality with their -8Fs, unfortunately.

Myself, I'd rather have them wait a few years and go for 777-9X. Forget ugly doubledeckers.



All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38139 times:

Thanks for posting.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
I really hope the carrier will finally place a VLA order. Would be great to see both A380 and 748i in the fleet, but I guess that's unlikely...

I think LH is a great example to follow though the current school of me-too thinker smartasses in the airline fleet planning elsewhere makes it unlikely. LHs current fleet is the best in the world.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 2):
Myself, I'd rather have them wait a few years and go for 777-9X. Forget ugly doubledeckers.

Thank god they are evaluating REAL big planes. Forget hideous overstretched boring tubes. I hope a 777-9X never sees the light of day as being longer than the already disproportioned 77W it would easily be the ugliest widebody ever.
Good to read that the 787 problems might delay a decision about the 777X (and therefore likely also the possible service entry) .


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3074 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38062 times:

Quoting na (Reply 3):
I think LH is a great example to follow though the current school of me-too thinker smartasses in the airline fleet planning elsewhere makes it unlikely. LHs current fleet is the best in the world.

So everyone who independently ran the numbers to see if the B747-8i was a good platform into the 2020s and said no is a fool except the airline of your home country? I am assuming you don't work in a discipline that demands a good business case before embarking on a multi billion dollar investment because your post is just fan-boyish. Is it so hard to show some respect to us "number crunchers"? Long hours and advanced maths seem to count for squat if it diesn't fit your favourite plane. Sorry but this sort of thing on here just bugs me as it over simplifies something that is rightly complex.

It's not based on how pretty the aircraft is, it really, really isn't. If it's the "best in the world", I wonder why they still have so many A346s. Still who needs to make money? Oh wait, Lufty do, which is why they're finally dumping short haul flying from non core assest to someone else.

[Edited 2013-02-01 02:50:37]

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 37972 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 4):
So everyone who independently ran the numbers to see if the B747-8i was a good platform into the 2020s and said no is a fool except the airline of your home country? I am assuming you don't work in a discipline that demands a good business case before embarking on a multi billion dollar investment because your post is just fan-boyish. Is it so hard to show some respect to us "number crunchers"? Long hours and advanced maths seem to count for squat if it diesn't fit your favourite plane. Sorry but this sort of thing on here just bugs me as it over simplifies something that is rightly complex.

It's not based on how pretty the aircraft is, it really, really isn't.

I thoroughly think that many decisions are not ONLY based that way, they are also based on what most of the competition does and the fear of an "own way". I am not a "number cruncher", certainly not, but I have met many in my long working life and what I said is the result of my experience with them. Of cause I know decisions arent made on prettyness, stupid to think so.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12322 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 37902 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 2):
I think they go for 747-8i, due to the commonality with their -8Fs, unfortunately.

I don't think it necessarily works like that; sure, commonality is important, but if the aircraft isn't right for the job, no amount of commonality is going to make a difference. The A380F has died a death, at least for the time being and even if it had not, the 747-8 is still better ... as a freighter.

However, as much as I love the 747, the reality is that it's at the end of the road. The A380, as ugly as it is, is at the beginning of its road. CX has expressed an interest in the -900 and is really only now coming around to the -800 due to MTOW improvements. I just can't see CX going for the 747-8i, especially as the 777-9X, once its launched, will kill it. I do believe CX will be a -9X customer, but that's a different day's debate.

As to numbers, I think we're easily going into double figures here, given the numbers of aircraft required to sustain a daily schedule, to places like LHR, SFO, LAX, JFK and YVR.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3074 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 37883 times:

Quoting na (Reply 5):
certainly not, but I have met many in my long working life and what I said is the result of my experience with them

It's a condescending term really, there's a huge difference between an accountant and a revenue analyst for instance.
Considering that the hard product is almost identical between the B777 and B747 and comparable to the A330/A340 across some fleets, I doubt Joe Public would notice. Most people don;t care what the aircraft type is nowadays so your argument that fleet planners just follow the crowd like lemmings over a cliff is not accurate. It is the quality of the soft and hard product that matters not the platform in which it is carried. Both BA and AA fly the B777 but BA has a better overall product (that may change with the new AA B77W). Indeed CX flies the B744 like PR but CX has a better product.

Again not the platform. There are a few people who find the B777 noisy but not enough to diminish the savings on using the twin over the quad. Business is all about numbers, knowing them, how to use them and being intelligent with them so that the main number does not become a sea of red ink. We most certainly do not count beans all day.

In this case there may be a good case for the B747-8i within Cathay as I suspect the A388 is a little big and they already operate a good sized fleet of the B747-8F. We shall see.


User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 37841 times:

I too think this is Boeing's to loose. They should get 748i's a couple of years sooner than A380's if need be and training and fleet intergration should be better with their 748F experience. CX will look for the ability to op non-stop to New York at max load as one important criteria I suspect.

User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1528 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 37484 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
It's a condescending term really, there's a huge difference between an accountant and a revenue analyst for instance.


skip. I think you are being a bit tough on na....I think he was merely inferring that LH have a good balance of aircraft for multi-roles, although to suggest it is the best in the world was a bit daft on his part

I think the reality of the world is that many airlines are suckered by the manufacturers sales teams and often end up with perhaps not the best planes that the bean counters would otherwise procure. Pride and vanity also play a huge amount in aircraft procurement, even for "proper" airlines....VS and the A380....need I say anymore?

Most of the airlines that fly similar high capacity long haul routes to CX, have gone A380, so one would assume the balance of favour is with that plane. The need to get the max out of each LHR and HKG movement is also a clear driver. But Boeing need a boost in spirit and 20 748i's on the books from CX would do that.

Mr Slosar did note that "the 747-8 freighters already operating in Cathay’s fleet “are operating very well as freighters.” Well, the Il-76 operates very well as a freighter.....

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
Again not the platform


Disagree with you on this. The A380 has changed the quality of the cabin environment and this can be sold in the market as an extra to all the internal stuff



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3074 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 37389 times:

Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
perhaps not the best planes that the bean counters would otherwise procure

Enough with "bean counters" please, we don't count beans, it makes hard working intelligent people sound like numpties. I agree that airlines are often blindsided by manufacturers sales teams but that's often very poor management who often don't understand the analysis that they are given, often because of the sheer amount of stuff that crosses their desk on a daily basis alas.

Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
The need to get the max out of each LHR and HKG movement is also a clear driver.

Good point but LHR has off peak too, the CX257 is an A343 sized rotation being flown by the B744 / B77W.

Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
The A380 has changed the quality of the cabin environment and this can be sold in the market as an extra to all the internal stuff

Interesting point, it has raised the game with the sheer amount of space available. Having said that, the B747-8i is no wider than the existing B747.


User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 395 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 37240 times:

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
I too think this is Boeing's to loose. They should get 748i's a couple of years sooner than A380's if need be and training and fleet intergration should be better with their 748F experience.

And yet, that didn't keep SQ from ordering 747-8F and still going with A380, even topping up their orders multiple times, and explicitly ruling out any role for the 747-8i in their fleet.
Similarly, BA are wet-leasing 747-8F, but decided to go for A380 for their pax fleet.

Just goes to show that operating 747-8F doesn't necessarily make a 747-8i purchase any more likely.



Sláinte!
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2809 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 37127 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
In this case there may be a good case for the B747-8i within Cathay as I suspect the A388 is a little big and they already operate a good sized fleet of the B747-8F. We shall see.

Why do you say that ?

Especially since the consensus is that CX want something bigger in both long and tubular (A350 -1000 already ordered) and fat and egg shaped (A380 -900) ?

These VLAs are certainly for a very few high density routes aren't they ?

LHR/NRT in the main -both slot constrained and where boxes are sent via alternative dedicates.

So the 388IGW might just swing it - Or could they yet be the launch customer for the 389 ?


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 37009 times:
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Quoting PlaneHunter (Thread starter):
Interesting statements by Cathay Pacific CEO John Slosar:

Thanks for the link, PlaneHunter. Although I'm not sure if they're evaluating it "again" as it was widely speculated that they had been evaluating these aircraft for some time. The decision was due by last year, but I guess they needed more time. It would be nice to see the 747-8i in CX colours  

However, as they have been quite reluctant in ordering either the A380 or the 747-8i I do wonder if they'll end up with either aircraft at all.

Quoting na (Reply 3):
Forget hideous overstretched boring tubes. I hope a 777-9X never sees the light of day as being longer than the already disproportioned 77W it would easily be the ugliest widebody ever.
Good to read that the 787 problems might delay a decision about the 777X (and therefore likely also the possible service entry) .

This thread is not about the 777, it's about CX evaluating 747-8 and A380, and I'd thank you not to drag the 777 into this topic, especially if your sole intention is to bash it like you always do. It's getting old and tiring.  
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
I doubt Joe Public would notice. Most people don;t care what the aircraft type is nowadays so your argument that fleet planners just follow the crowd like lemmings over a cliff is not accurate. It is the quality of the soft and hard product that matters not the platform in which it is carried.

        

The on board hard and soft product is what Joe Public would experience and base their fondness for the airline on that. I don't think the aircraft type matters as much to them as it obviously does to a.nutters like us.

Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
The A380 has changed the quality of the cabin environment and this can be sold in the market as an extra to all the internal stuff

I think part of that is due to the airlines putting their newest and most sophisticated hard product on board the A380 - to the point that some of the current A380 operators have hard product exclusive to the type: QF has F only on the A380, SQ's R class, EK's F class showers and business class seats etc.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36885 times:
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Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
Most of the airlines that fly similar high capacity long haul routes to CX, have gone A380, so one would assume the balance of favour is with that plane. The need to get the max out of each LHR and HKG movement is also a clear driver. But Boeing need a boost in spirit and 20 748i's on the books from CX would do that

Even if Boeing "gave" Cathay 20 748i for "next to nothing" would it boast the program ? Probably not much. I could see Boeing doing a combination 748i and 777-9X deal where CX gets say 10 748i for 8-10 years leases and then gets the 777-9X when they are ready to be delivered.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12037 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36842 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
I suspect the A388 is a little big

Wait, you think the A388 is too big, yet CX is interested in the A389?   

With Asian traffic growth, the A388 is the only sensible answer IMHO. It offers further growth to the A389 whereas the 748i is never going to get any bigger.



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4593 posts, RR: 38
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36784 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 18):
Wait, you think the A388 is too big, yet CX is interested in the A389?   

With Asian traffic growth, the A388 is the only sensible answer IMHO.

Totally agree with this. With CX as a possible customer the A380 is the favorite for me to win this comparison as well. The airframe is continuously improving and has much more growth and improvement potential then the B748i, which is as an airframe is at the end of it's life cycle. The A389 would be CX favorite for sure, but that version is yet to come. But I believe we will see it launched around 2015 with a possible EIS around 2020.  .


User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36620 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 13):
availability might help B

Allegedly there are 10 x relatively near-term A380 slots allocated to HK Airlines that may become available.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36603 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 4):
It's not based on how pretty the aircraft is, it really, really isn't. If it's the "best in the world", I wonder why they still have so many A346s. Still who needs to make money? Oh wait, Lufty do, which is why they're finally dumping short haul flying from non core assest to someone else.

For a "number cruncher" it is very easy to see why the A346 is best in the world at LH.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36493 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
However, as much as I love the 747, the reality is that it's at the end of the road.
Quoting scbriml (Reply 18):
the 748i is never going to get any bigger.

I think that's a bit premature. While I agree that it is highly unlikely that there will be a further 747 derivative beyond the -8, Boeing did propose an 85m 747-600X back in the mid 1990s. I think that it is possible that there might be a further stretch in the future.

Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
Pride and vanity also play a huge amount in aircraft procurement, even for "proper" airlines....VS and the A380....need I say anymore?

I disagree. I think any well run airline would only choose an aircraft because it's the right aircraft for them, not because of any "pride" or "vanity". Any "prestige" that may or may not be associated with an aircraft should be discarded and the numbers examined dispassionately.

[Edited 2013-02-01 06:35:58]


Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1281 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 36443 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 2):
Myself, I'd rather have them wait a few years and go for 777-9X. Forget ugly doubledeckers.

Brave thing to say here, lol...

I really do think the future belongs to big twins though. The 779x is probably the best choice for CX, but time will tell on this order...

Quoting na (Reply 3):

I think LH is a great example to follow though the current school of me-too thinker smartasses in the airline fleet planning elsewhere makes it unlikely. LHs current fleet is the best in the world.

I like that too. But I think DL's fleet isn't too bad either for the same reasons you like LH's...

Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):

I don't think it necessarily works like that; sure, commonality is important, but if the aircraft isn't right for the job, no amount of commonality is going to make a difference.

Yup. Especially when we're talking f's & i's.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
I just can't see CX going for the 747-8i, especially as

I can see the 748i winning this bid, however, if it truly is just between that & the 388. Boeing won't give it away, but I think they'll get a huge break on delivery times vs the 388...

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 12):

Enough with "bean counters" please, we don't count beans, it makes hard working intelligent people sound like numpties.

Ok, I'll buy that. Those guys make sure we have jobs & don't go insolvent. I'd rather see more 77Ws, 787s, & 330/350s out there than 748is if it means better job security through decent product efficiency. VLA's look pretty, but the liability factor (for slow sales or weak routings) is tremendous. I for one totally respect decisions that take this into account, yes.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):

However, as they have been quite reluctant in ordering either the A380 or the 747-8i I do wonder if they'll end up with either aircraft at all.

Personally, I hope they do not. We have enough 747s & 380s around for now. I think a capital airline like CX making their bread on 77W/E/As & A33Xs is actually pretty neat and makes them a little different, which is a good thing. If they can keep this going and make money, why not, right?



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1595 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 36326 times:

Quoting shankly (Reply 10):
Pride and vanity also play a huge amount in aircraft procurement, even for "proper" airlines....VS and the A380....need I say anymore?

I didagree. since VS ordered the A380, a lot of things have changed, most notably the Bermuda II agreemenet at LHR and the evolution of alliances.

Remember that the A380 was ordered on a 1 to 1 to replace the B744, so represented growth potential at a slot restricted airport.

yes a lot of marketing and hype surrounded the order, but there were some sound reasons to back it up at the time.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11925 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 36784 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
Even if Boeing "gave" Cathay 20 748i for "next to nothing" would it boast the program ?

Not a great question to ask, since Boeing has been pretty clear that they are holding to a minimum amount of profit per 748 sold. Boeing has said that they have been asked to part with 748s for "next to nothing" and have said no.

The net import of this is that Boeing seems willing to slow down or shut down the 748 line if profitable sales don't appear.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 395 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 36695 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 22):
I think that's a bt premature. While I agree that it is highly unlikely that there will be a further 747 derivative beyond the -8, Boeing did propose an 85m 747-600X back in the mid 1990s. I think that it is possible that there might be a further stretch in the future.

Sure, a lot of things are possible, and Boeing isn't ruling anything out. But it wouldn't really make much sense to go and do another re-hash of the 747 around 2020 given the limited success of the 747-8i and the cost involved in doing another stretch.
I certainly wouldn't place any bets on a further derivative seeing the light of day. The 747 airframe is IMHO at the end of its useful commercial development cycle, and it's a very slim chance that there is going to be a 747-9i. Compare that to the A380, which seems much more future-proof - much newer technology all around, more growth potential and a stretch being actively pitched by the manufacturer for an EIS around 2020.



Sláinte!
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5885 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 37008 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 2):
I think they go for 747-8i, due to the commonality with their -8Fs, unfortunately.

IMHO, There are a few more "premium oriented" (vs volume) carriers that have watched LH and the 748 closely and seen the success they have ad with it.

CX is probably one of these airlines.

Their commonality with their freighters only is a plus.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
25 Post contains images anfromme : IMHO, There are a few more "premium oriented" (vs volume) carriers that have watched LH and the A380 closely and seen the success they have ad with i
26 Revelation : Indeed it highlights why a lot of the "VLA optimists" were so wrong-headed at the time of the WhaleJet launch. They seemed to presume that the econom
27 Stitch : Perhaps CX will order both?
28 cmf : Or they just think there are plenty enough times when demand is such that a single large plane is better than many small.
29 behramjee : Keeping in mind that CXs current B744s seat 359 pax in a 4 class premium configuration, the B748 if ordered by CX would seat in the same layout a maxi
30 airlinebuilder : this is going to be an AIRBUS WIN no doubt about it..... the era of the A380 has already began for quite some time. Lets just give to who truly deserv
31 Post contains images CXB77L : I agree with that. The days of quad engined jets are all but over, especially when advances in technology have allowed twins to grow both in size and
32 airlinebuilder : I think Boeing really missed the train there when they ignored the concept of the double decker through and through including the acquired rights on t
33 scottpilgrim : Agreed, with the A380 CX can increase the number of seats available on high-yield flights without having to deal with slot restrictions at home and a
34 Post contains links kaitak : Yes, but the 744s are on their way out; the 77Ws seat only 275 in a four class layout, so that raises the question of how many pax the A380 would sea
35 Post contains images A388 : Don't forget that BA's 748F's are not their own but from GSSS so that crew has no relation to BA. BA does nothing with these 748F's except lease them
36 JHCRJ700 : Read the book "Airbus vs. Boeing" There is definitely some number crunching going on, but a lot of times it all comes down to who is willing to give
37 Post contains images EPA001 : They are likely to order the highest GW variant there is since payload and specifically cargo are very important to CX. That is if they would order t
38 MD-90 : 14% more versus 30% is a big delta. Cathay may not want 30% more capacity per flight at this time.
39 Revelation : The truth is that the A380 is a money losing program and a lot of its sales are due to one customer that is using the airframe to pull away a lot of
40 Post contains images AustrianZRH : Actually Cathay Pacific is the topic of this thread . And SQ is suffering that much from the Emirates effect that they just upped their A380 order by
41 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G'day What a revelation. I do hope Airbus is aware of this danger to their very existence. Will Boeing or others be able to fill the void if the 'bus
42 goosebayguy : I just love the way people think Airbus is losing money on the 380. Sure its investment needs to be repaid but it will make money. Does the same perso
43 cmf : i.e. number crunching
44 jfk777 : Not every airline asking for "net to nothing" 748 is Cathay, CX would be a great boost to the program.[Edited 2013-02-01 14:11:38]
45 jfk777 : Virgin still needs the A380 for certain routes since LHR still has slot issues and no Bermuda 2 means more airlines are competing for an eve small av
46 DolphinAir747 : CX seems like the best airline currently to buy 747-8is for these reasons.
47 Revelation : Oops! My bad... According to the CEO it still costs more money to make an A380 than it brings in to the company, and this was before the cracked rib
48 cmf : As does manufacturing a 787. Difference is that the A380 deliveries are expected to be positive in 2015 (or is it 2014) and we have no idea when the
49 B2707SST : I expect the A380 will win this RFP, since the market seems to have taken a pass on the 747-8 (not that either is lighting the world on fire) and CX c
50 abba : Dream on..
51 Stitch : If it's sole-source, then I would expect the A380-800 to win it. But LH, KE and (in theory) HX have found a role for both the A380-800 and the 747-8
52 rotating14 : How much of an investment would CX need to make to train pilots to fly the A380 vs pilots that are already trained on a current existing model they al
53 Stitch : As an A330 and A340 operator, the cross-training to the A380 would be pretty easy. They're also going to be an A350 operator.
54 PanAmPaul : I guess in part it depends on how many routes Cathay would fly where the A380 simply can't land but they need the size. In the end, as others have sa
55 flightsimer : And yet EK recently announced that they would be reconfiguring A380s with a higher density configuration with no F class at all. There is no point in
56 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks for your extensive comments. I highly appreciate you making the effort to elaborate on your opinion. That is what A-net makes a great forum. I
57 Lafite82 : I find it strange that neither zeke nor CX flyboy has made any comment up till now ! Both aircrafts are well built and would suit CX's needs, however
58 scbriml : *cough* Check Asia's traffic growth *cough* This is the same SIA that has just purchased additional A380s and has large numbers of A350s, 787s and 77
59 sweair : No one thinks its worth doing a 757 replacement (middle range) under 1000 frames is a waste. But somehow Airbus should phantom the A389 when the A380
60 Post contains links david_itl : Back in 2008, Flight International reported the 3 varieties of EK A380s. "Initial A380s will be delivered to the airline in a 489-seat, three-class l
61 flightsimer : If emirates is already saying they aren't selling their first class tickets in amounts they were predicting and for the profit they were and are now
62 CXB77L : The 777-300ER carries more cargo by volume than the 747-8i and the A380-800. No, they made exactly the right decision not to pursue an all new VLA qu
63 cx flyboy : We have not been told anything internally through company communications channels. The rumours about 'maybe' an order being made have now been around
64 carpethead : HKG is getting quite busy and if they don't build another runway, there will be some issues getting new slots at some peak times. Plus European red ey
65 sweair : I think the time window for the 748i has passed, the 744s seem to be replaced mostly by 77Ws and a few by the larger A380. The only airline I think co
66 jfk777 : Cathay's fllet plans seems to say Large twins, including lots of A350-900. These work best for its large cargo operations and big J class cabins. CX'
67 astuteman : Cathays fleet plans seem to suggest they'll evaluate aircraft in whatever category is appropriate, INCLUDING VLA's I'd suggest. Otherwise this thread
68 CXB77L : I agree that they would, but that's what I was getting at. I didn't raise that point to suggest that the lack of infrastructure is a barrier to the a
69 sunrisevalley : Does anyone wish to speculate what a CX seating arrangement might be for a A380 and a 748i ? Also, is there an expected fuel burn improvement still to
70 Stitch : For the 747-8, they should be able to add 12 Business Class seats and 10 Economy seats. Boeing is working on reducing another 2.3 tons of empty weigh
71 skipness1E : To be clear, which A380s are EK removing F from? Would it not be simpler just to ensure fewer new aircraft were delivered with F than muck about takin
72 KC135TopBoom : Hard to say on seating in each type, but my guess would be the B-748 in the neighborhood of 380-400 seats and the A-388 in the neighborhood of 430-45
73 packsonflight : Why are the improvements reserved for the 748 exclusively? I would expect similar improvements to the 380 over time.
74 sweair : No one said anything like it either, maybe it was you that interpreted it that way? Or maybe A has not said much about the future A380? People tell w
75 Revelation : Indeed as suggested above CX like most airlines are continuously evaluating their fleet, and has been the case for a while now, they are considering
76 abba : I do not think it has so much to do with VLA as it has to do with program implementation. The 748i is simply an attempt to get a few extra sales base
77 Revelation : Certainly a factor, but IMHO the main factor is the availability of large two-engine frames that do a large part of the mission that was once solely
78 sweair : Just read the other day about the NASA/Boeing BWB progress, next up is building a cabin with non circular shape and getting it as strong as a tube. M
79 sunrisevalley : Is this " work in progress" reflected in the December 2012 published OEW of 220.128t or not?
80 Post contains images astuteman : I didn't see anyone say the 748i has "such bad economics". It clearly hasn't. But Packsonflight is absolutely right to point out that the A380 will s
81 Post contains images bmacleod : I'm hoping CX picks the 748i as lumbering through the 787 ordeal; Boeing really needs a pickup to their spirits.... I'm putting on a A380/748i split..
82 Tangomaniac : That's a misunderstanding: EK has no plans at all to remove F from any of its existing A380. Only a part of the new ones, which will be deliverers in
83 abba : BWB's? I'am affraid we will have to wait at the very least 4 to 5 decades before we will see BWBs in the size of a 380. With the growth in mega citie
84 sweair : Sadly the big twins will own WB long haul even in the future, why else have we not seen 100s of A380 orders from China? Frequency is king now and in
85 Stitch : The last 747-8 ACAP that I saw which had OEW data was September 2008 and that was 191t vs. the 197t in the December 2012 ACAP so I would guess the De
86 flightsimer : There is nothing that says the 747 can not have another variant in the near future. The only thing that says that is the people who want he program t
87 sunrisevalley : I have done some "sums" using the December 2012 load/range chart for the 748i with OEW at 220.128t and PIANO-X A380 updated to 573t MTOW and OEW reduc
88 skipness1E : That's what I thought, thank you for clarifying.
89 RayChuang : I think it comes down to this: can the A380-800 or 747-8I fly LAX westbound to HKG non-stop year-round on what CX defines as a full-load for either pl
90 Post contains images sunrisevalley : OOOPs my big faux pas... fuel load would be about 204t. I quoted the block fuel load and left out the reserves. This changes the "spread" quite signi
91 abba : You are certainly not used to do long intercontinental flights accros timezones, I recon! For flights above 10-12 hours you basically have one or two
92 sunrisevalley : In the FWIW department . Both can fly the route which is about 7300nm ESAD with the likely passenger layout full, plus max cargo abliet on a volume l
93 Wolbo : If CX does indeed purchase a VLA the best cards are for the A380. But if Boeing wants to make something of the 747-8I it desperately needs this order
94 Stitch : Airbus and Rolls-Royce were said to have matched Boeing's RFP to British Airways on the 747-8 and yet Boeing didn't go lower to try and win it back.
95 astuteman : I certainly wouldn't disagree. And I don't know anyone who "wants" the 747 programme to die. So. Leaving the emotion behind for a while..... The issu
96 Revelation : There's lots of problems with such a statement. The world would be a different place if the dot.com growth was on the same curve it once was. You can
97 Pihero : It's pretty ridiculous to base Cathay needs with the planned utilisation of the 380 by Emirates. As said above, there is a mission that requiires the
98 airlinebuilder : after all being said and done, most likely the most certain prediction on here would be an A380 order from CX, there is no doubt about it being a pax
99 Darksnowynight : Quite very, yes. Is that a Paine Field add-on you have there? Looks neat. Absolutely. These guys aren't stupid, and won't make a decision because tha
100 scbriml : You keep saying this without offering anything by way of support. IF CX ordered VLAs today, when would they get 748s vs A380s? Airbus has a number of
101 Post contains images astuteman : I'm not sure how many A380's EK send to LHR every day, but it's definitely more than 1..... Don't fall into the trap everyone else does of simplifyin
102 Post contains images scbriml : Just the five. Which completely supports the frequency vs capacity argument. Oh wait...
103 gemuser : Two points: 1) What do you mean by "as those get pulled"? Can you give an example where slot restrictions have been lifted? 2) In your comments about
104 Post contains images CXB77L : I have no reason to believe that the business case for the 747-8 program as a whole is any less sound than that of the A380. The fact of the 747-8i n
105 RickNRoll : It's not that so much as the fact that whole package doesn't seem to fit many customers needs. The 77W is still selling like hotcakes, in contrast.
106 zeke : Boeing has been offering larger 747s to airlines since the 1970s, it was not LH pushing them as you suggest.
107 abba : That is the classic example always used - however it is irrelevant in this context as LHR-NYC does not qualify as a long intercontinental route. Mid
108 scbriml : AA will be up-gauging to the 77W and BA to the A380 on that specific route. Frequency AND capacity again.
109 CXfirst : Is this as true today? I would think Boeing would love the positive PR of a quality carrier like CX choosing the 748i over the A388 (which for many w
110 sweair : Only SAA has really the need for a quad and smaller than a A380, I guess if even the wont go for the 748 after the A346 the 748i is about as dead as i
111 Post contains images EPA001 : Pricing is always honest, but based on market circumstances. And still it is up to the customers to decide if they will buy an airplane or not. In re
112 abba : I have read the above several times now - and I am simply not getting your point. Was there a demand - or was there not a demand for the 748i? If Boe
113 trex8 : My two cents on this. B knew there would be demand for the 747-8F, doing the -8I was a reasonable decision given most of the investment for the -F wa
114 sweair : The i model is very close to the F model, a stretched upper deck, some passenger systems mostly of the 400 are added, a tail tank when that is fixed.
115 CXB77L : I apologise for the badly worded post. The point I was trying to get at is simply that at the time of the program launch, Boeing's market research ha
116 Stitch : 747-8 Intercontinental delivery positions are evidently available this year. QF deferred some 2014 deliveries to 2018-2022 and HX was said to be look
117 BestWestern : Its a multi billion dollar vote of confidence. In my opinion, the reason why the A380 and 748i arent selling is because the 1) global economies are s
118 abba : Now if that is what you are trying to say, then you should also admit that the problems facing the 380 and the 748i in terms of ROI for their respect
119 Revelation : A question I find interesting is how many pax on those EK A380 LHR flights are new market entrants versus those who would have flown on AI/SQ/QF/CX/B
120 Stitch : I need to preface this by noting that I'm one of the biggest supporters of the A380 program and biggest detractors of the 747-8 on the forum. So the f
121 dc1030cf : Will this predicted upcoming order from Cathay be the "Significant new order" that John Leahy was saying ?
122 Post contains images astuteman : Or Ek's A380's to MAN even ..... Er, scuse me. The A380's business case was based on a forecast of selling 750 over 20 years (which I understand to h
123 Stitch : Fair enough. Airbus consistently predicts ~1700 large aircraft sales in their 20 year forecasts so that is what I was going off of.[Edited 2013-02-03
124 sweair : That vast cabin outfit must eat into profit for sure, even this far after EIS, I see no reason to buy EADS stock because of the A380..
125 SEPilot : I do not think a single purchase will have much impact on Boeing's credibility one way or the other. What happens with the 787 is far more important.
126 yyz717 : A CX 748i order would a add a much needed boost to the program. Boeing must aim to win this order. Umm no. The 343 and 346 are very inefficient. Both
127 RayChuang : I think in the end, commonality with the 747-8F will be why CX will buy the 747-8I to replace the 747-400 on their busiest routes. They will be supple
128 Post contains images scbriml : VERY inefficient? While the A346 is certainy less efficient than the 77W, it has better payload/range than the 744 and burns considerably less fuel do
129 pnwtraveler : What so many people fail to understand is risk management. It is one thing to look at volumes of aircraft flying a particular route and then presuppos
130 Post contains images astuteman : Again, Airbus's 2012 GMF shows a forecast of 1 332 "Large Aircraft". Which by dint of being defined as 400 seats and above clearly includes competito
131 Post contains images Stitch : Yes, as the discussion is off-topic to the thread, anyway, and I really should be focusing on the new episode of Wonders of Life right now. [Edited 2
132 Post contains images astuteman : That sounds like top advice Rgds
133 yyz717 : And yet Airbus closed the A346 line due to a lack of orders.....while the 777 line (mostly 77W orders) is at 8.3/month. Whatever the attributes of th
134 sunrisevalley : LH like all the European carriers have no use for more than about 6500nm . So I don't see a need for them to be buying range.
135 Post contains images Pihero : Your loss : I bought at 13 euros on the 380 delays... it's now over 35...
136 Post contains images EPA001 : Again this stupid and false A-net myth. . True. But those are facts, and not the popular myth. No, they made the perfect decision for their fleet bas
137 Stitch : At the time LH ordered the A340-600, the 777-300ER was still in development as the "777-300X" and was not scheduled to EIS for a number of years afte
138 anfromme : If you cared to look at how EADS stock has developed in the last year you would find that currently is actually a pretty bad point in time to buy any
139 travelhound : I think it's a fair argument to suggest the A380 program has not reached it's target sales goals and that's it's initial break even of 250 aircraft w
140 Stitch : Boeing is willing to discount - just not to the level some possible customers wanted in years past.
141 RickNRoll : There's your answer. The A34X was a good plane, but it arrived at the wrong time, just when engine technology made the 'super' twin viable. The diffe
142 RayChuang : True, but the lower fuel burn of the A350XWB-900 makes it attractive to LH to fly from FRA/MUC to long-range international destinations that need les
143 SEPilot : What's more, nobody (including Boeing) had any idea at the time how good the 77W was going to be. I believe that when the 77W was under development t
144 CXB77L : I don't believe I have ever claimed otherwise. I don't think I've ever said that either. What I did say is that the market for quad engined VLAs is d
145 yyz717 : I mean perhaps even more aggressively than Boeing would otherwise, in order to snag a marquee customer for a slow selling aircraft. I disagree. CX is
146 airlinebuilder : in conclusion, regardless if CX will purchase the B748i or the A380, at the end of the day we all have to accept the fact that the A380 is the new def
147 BestWestern : That sounds like a convenient PR excuse for not selling the aircraft, whilst putting down the competition at the same time. Stitch, you previously cl
148 brons2 : A388 all the way. The 748i is yesterday's widebody. 17.2" seats, no thanks.
149 Post contains links abba : So you imagine that the plan for the 380 was that when they got the orders they needed for the program to break even then they would have closed thei
150 Post contains images anfromme : All of this would be equally valid if you substituted CX with LH in your statement - and yet, LH's order for the 747-8i obviously hasn't convinced to
151 art : Taking it a bit far, isn't it? You can't replace 8 x 777 flights per 4 hour period with 1 x A380 flight per 4 hour period and offer the same number o
152 abba : Thank you for your information - claiming as Stitch did in post 120 that the FAL in Toulouse is standing idle makes no sense right now. As I had a ra
153 Post contains images Darksnowynight : While I certainly disagree about the relevance involved, even in these markets, twins are making inroads pretty quickly. KE fly a 380 to NY & LA,
154 Post contains images LH422 : Just ran across this Airbus advertisement. Perhaps it will help CX make up their minds?
155 Darksnowynight : ??? I read that post too and didn't see anything like that. It's not edited either from looks of it. What I get from that is he's saying that the 388
156 AngMoh : Now we get to the nonsense again of "we want frequency" when it comes to 12+ hrs flights. For that kind of flights there is often only 1 time slot wh
157 RickNRoll : QANTAS ordered the 787 and the 388. It made sense at the time, both companies let them down, Boeing more than Airbus. The A380 works for them, howeve
158 abba : That is NOT what the argument is about. The argument is, that when you get routes above 10-12 hours across time zones the situation is so that freque
159 BestWestern : The last line is the core of the Airbus argument... "it takes an A380 to compete with an A380" Night flights are the yield generators on long hauls -
160 CXB77L : That is not necessarily true. CX flies 4 x 77W to JFK every day, one of which goes via YVR. Just because it's a long haul flight doesn't necessarily
161 anfromme : Interesting how any thread about any airline potentially ordering 747-8i/A380 does not just become a virtual bake-off between supporters of the 747-8i
162 jfk777 : LH and CX had two very different missions for the A346, LH was using it on smaller demand then 744 routes all over its network and getting many of th
163 EPA001 : Which is proof of the fact that the A346 was a highly efficient aircraft at the time. In fact is was the most efficient when it was introduced to the
164 dfambro : Works for who? I, for one, lament the lack of frequency on US-Japan schedules. I want to leave later and arrive later than current schedules allow. B
165 trex8 : Do any LH insiders have actual figures for fuel burn/CASM for the A346/748/A380 ??
166 Stitch : Because, like the 747-400 it is based on, it is an inferior passenger-carrying platform compared to the A380-800 and an inferior cargo-carrying platf
167 babybus : My vote goes to the A380. LHR-HGK is a long way and passengers need that space that only the A380 can provide. Passengers like to say they have flown
168 Revelation : Good point. Now all Airbus needs is a 2nd EK to come along, and hope all its widebody customers not named EK can survive such an arrival. You may wan
169 Post contains images anfromme : Airbus doesn't really need that, nor is it really likely to happen. A few top-up orders from existing customers plus maybe four new customers over th
170 Post contains links neutronstar73 : You are excused. Read this: http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2008...a-and-the-airbus-boeing-forecasts/
171 scbriml : That total includes freighters (a sector in which Airbus doesn't currently compete, and was already out of by 2008) and is the total market projectio
172 Post contains images astuteman : The problem with THAT is that the early years were the ones without any issues emerging. Would you like to have a look at the 787's sales record and
173 Post contains images anfromme : The world has gone crazy! I've done some checking - turns out that BA, AF/KL, Qatar, China Southern, Korean Air, SQ and VS did exactly the same thing
174 DolphinAir747 : Why will VLAs become obsolete? As demand rises globally and problems such as rising fuel costs and constraints at airports like LHR continue, VLAs wi
175 Post contains images Darksnowynight : So.... Freighters do not count; is that what we're saying? Because I would say that's really about all that the 748 has going anymore... Then they wo
176 Revelation : Airbus as a company will be fine but the four engine VLA sector will continue to be a disappointment. It wasn't meant as such, just a statement of op
177 tommytoyz : - This makes no big difference, as the planes you buy are the ones you get, not the ones offered after you buy yours. It's like you buying electronic
178 Post contains images EPA001 : When it comes to passengers and cargo are CX, KE and LH very much comparable with each other. And LH and KE have bought the A380 and the B748i. So CX
179 kaitak : I think Boeing is a lot more worried than Airbus; much as I love the 747, the -8 has been a failure and the arrival of the 777-9X will pretty much ki
180 scbriml : No, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. You pointed to the Airbus Global Market Forecast of 2008 claiming it showed Airbus predicting "four
181 Post contains images KarelXWB : Something like that. The BA A380 will have 469 seats in a 4 class layout. Good question. LH has 386 seats in their 744-8i, how would that translate i
182 Post contains links 135mech : But, it DOES state that Airbus expected (total VLA) sales to hit four figures in that 2008 report: Here's a direct quote... ["March 16, 2008 For a ch
183 Post contains images EPA001 : That is not correct. The point of the discussion was if Airbus ever fore-casted a 4-digit number of A380 sales. That they clearly never did. That Air
184 Post contains links neutronstar73 : For posterity's sake: http://www.ascendworldwide.com/airbus-a380-order-d.pdf Check out page 2, under "Small in Japan" Oh and this article in the NY T
185 135mech : No, it WAS disputed more than once, that is why I quoted it, (the last "dispute" - reply 180) and referenced the article from where the information w
186 EPA001 : Then please show me and everyone else here where Airbus predicts more then 1,000 sales of the A380. Maybe I have missed something? If that is the cas
187 Post contains images 135mech : I have been reading this thread thoroughly and responded accordingly with actual references for my post. As you should do the same! 135Mech
188 KarelXWB : A forecast for 1700 VLA's doesn't mean 1700 A380 sales. John Leahy always said he would love to have half of that market, that would be around 850 A38
189 135mech : It is CLEARLY stated and referenced in reply 182 (actual numbers and referenced link)... my first post that you were so quick to stomp on. Are we don
190 EPA001 : And I respectfully believe I have done so. So please inform me where Airbus stated that they would sell more then 1,000 copies of the A380. That was
191 EPA001 : Exactly my point. He sure would love to see that number, but that is still a long time away.
192 135mech : I agree sir, that seemed (as it was written) to be Airbus's forcast of the TOTAL VLA market for both Airbus and Boeing, while Boeing's forcast in 200
193 Stitch : Page 23 of the Airbus Global Market Outlook - 2003-2022 projected demand for nearly 1,200 very large and economical passenger aircraft and noted that
194 Post contains images EPA001 : Not entirely since the B748i (and the B779-X) will also be a part of that market over the period fore-casted. Airbus for sure would hope and love to
195 Post contains links abba : The problem is that your reference does NOT say what you say it says. Your reference (which as a reference is rather bad as it is providing second ha
196 neutronstar73 : I think it does put to rest the notion some here have said that "Airbus never said it would sell 4 figures of A380" when page 23 of the document you
197 Post contains images Stitch : In 2003, neither the 747-8 nor the 777-9X existed. Boeing had also cancelled the 747X and 747X Stretch so the only VLA Boeing had on offer - or proje
198 EPA001 : No, it does not. It does not state that Airbus expects to sell more then 1,000 copies. One might imply that, but it is not directly stated. So please
199 135mech : I never said that "Airbus expected the entire market". BUT...back to the actual topic, best of luck if CX does decide to pursue this purchase either
200 sunrisevalley : it rather depends on how many seats are in each. If they were to have 469 in the A380 ( 450 has been suggested) and 401 ( as has been suggested) in t
201 ecbomberman : VS does fly LHR-HKG too and it's a full flight most of the time. And the flight carries on to SYD, so what makes you think that they don't have the c
202 Post contains links KarelXWB : Interesting. I have 3 questions: - The 777 can seat a maximum of 550 passagiers, does that make it a VLA too? Or are we talking about a 3 class layou
203 Post contains images ecbomberman : Maybe other airlines are interested in flying their A380's into NRT?? A343's do have their place in their network... Long and thin routes such as HKG
204 KarelXWB : I can only think of Skymark as a future A380 customer in NRT.
205 CCA : Cathay will begin 5 X LHR later this year (ANZ slots) but its seasonal not all year round. Using a combination of 77W and 744. The current choice of s
206 art : If the A380 = limited cargo argument in favour of 748-i is marginal or not the case at all, what favours the 748-i? Just close commonality with 748F?
207 Darksnowynight : Availability, slightly lower acquistion cost, lower operational cost & similar premium cabin capacity. Though commonality is a thing, I think the
208 CXB77L : I think that is a very real possibility. When Tony Tyler was CX CEO, he suggested that CX has no interest in the A380 "in its current form", which su
209 B-HOP : Before comparing between A380 and 8i, lets look at what the -400 currently does. -400 does a fair amount of flying regionally, with afternoon flight t
210 anfromme : Sorry, I was being ironic - I never believed that 787s and A330s will obliterate the VLA segment. I was trying to point out that, in fact, most A380
211 NobleRT : When would Cathay need to make a decision? I see a lot of confusion between their need/desire for new metal and the possibility of them waiting for th
212 andrewtang : When it comes to cargo capability, the A380-800 definitely loses out compared to the 77W or 747-8I but realistically it really isn't a big issue becau
213 Post contains images pnwtraveler : It is obvious that Cathay isn't seeing an urgent need for either airframe at the moment. They are relooking at the VLA's with probably better facts at
214 PW100 : Leasing itself won't solve that problem; surely the leasing companies would be smart enough to account for the "poor resale value " in their lease ra
215 francoflier : I won't go over the 200+ replies, but I wonder if anybody's discussed the fact that apart from sheer economics and planning strategy, almost all of CX
216 CXB77L : Thank you for an insightful post. You are of course quite correct. Last time I checked, CX plans on retiring its entire 744 fleet by 2016. I'm sorry,
217 Post contains images EPA001 : On a 1 to 1 airplane comparison Airbus is quite correct with their statement. But as airline, there are many alternatives. Which is a good thing imho
218 andrewtang : Leasing of course will not solve the issue in the long run but it is certainly the easiest way to increase capacity whilst at the same time minimisin
219 CXB77L : That also depends on what metric you're using to compare aircraft. It carries more passengers than any other commercial airliner. Depending on the se
220 Post contains images EPA001 : No, it is not. On its unique features she has no competition. And that is what is marketed in the advertorial Airbus made. And that is quite correct.
221 rutankrd : Well they have just confirmed that of one slot constrained airport (LHR) they are INCREASING daily rotations from June to five - yes five a day ! The
222 PW100 : So what's the timing on the new flight? Don't tell me it's within an hour (either way) of an existing flight, as that would sort of destroy the above
223 Darksnowynight : Erm, I doubt that one. Where I work at LAX, I think we have about five different airlines flying in at least seven 388s a day. Where's UA & DL's
224 rutankrd : Schedule HKG -LHR CX255 dep 0035 local arrive 0620 local B744 CX257 dep 1005 local arrive 1600 local B77W CX239 dep 1025 local arrive 1615 local B77W
225 jfk777 : The day could be coming when Cathay's LHR schedule looks like BA's LHR to JFK Schdeule, 7 or 8 daily flights. CX prints tons of money with 77W with p
226 sweair : The 748i is a good plane when you can seat 380-400 people but not more, a 77W gets cramped and the A380 with 380 seats cant be all that impressive, a
227 N14AZ : Excuse me, I hope I don't come across as a greenie with sandals, eating his daily muesli, but I think this is perverted. I guess that's why they were
228 BrouAviation : Really? You want to play semantics? In that case, following your logic, it takes a 748 to compete with a 748. Nothing has competition on its unique f
229 Post contains images EPA001 : That is correct. It is a phrase from a marketing add, and is absolutely true. That is exactly what the goal of the marketeers was and is. It has noth
230 ncfc99 : The above quote is why many people are disputing that Airbus has stated it will sell in over 1000 A380's. What was disputed more than once was that t
231 jfk777 : The day could be coming when Cathay's LHR schedule looks like BA's LHR to JFK Schdeule, 7 or 8 daily flights. CX prints tons of money with 77W with p
232 EPA001 : No, the global forecast number from Airbus of 1,700 sold VLA's in all categories by all manufacturers was and is undisputed. Whether or not that numb
233 Post contains images ncfc99 : EPA001, you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. I am in total agreement with you, I am not agreeing with 135mech, apologies if that is not c
234 Post contains images EPA001 : Ah, now I see. Well, maybe it is the late hour that I might have misinterpreted your post. So apologies are not really necessary.
235 cx flyboy : Some days HKG gets 8 A380 flights. Why would it be a headache? Granted there are only a few existing gates the A380s park at but current non-conformi
236 abba : One should actually be rather surprised if there was an issue. Hong Kong has an almost brand new (and very beautiful!) airport were no doubt planes t
237 Darksnowynight : Just what I've heard from two of our RMs that work out of there. I haven't been there in about three years, and won't be until November of this year,
238 cloudyapple : Before you know it, we are celebrating 15 years of operations this year. We never board A380s from remotes here. We have 4 Code F stands and another
239 Post contains images abba : I know. Time is running faster and faster apparently. I lived in Hong Kong from 1994 to 2006 and remember the transfer from Kai Tak very well
240 Post contains links ecbomberman : People on the other discussion have been going on and on about the A380 for CX as well as on this forum: CX To Lauch 5th Daily LHR (by HB-IWC Feb 6 20
241 HKG212 : There will actually be 3 Code F gates at the MFC.
242 sunrisevalley : I my view the key in looking at an airline's financials is the change in cash and cash equivalents on hand from the previous reporting period.
243 Cerecl : I don't think it is entirely valid to expect CX to simply replace 747 with A380 (if CX does order it) and fly them to all of the current 744 destinat
244 abba : Let me point out quite clearly: You are quoting me for saying something I didn't say at all.
245 B-HOP : True they can use 773 or 77w for a lot of the regional mission, but there are few things 773, whilst a people carrier, lacks the long haul business ne
246 Post contains links Cerecl : If an route is perfect for 3x747, then I cannot see why this cannot be replaced by 1x380, 1x77W and 1x333. Sure maybe it is not a 100% perfect replac
247 Post contains links and images EPA001 : Just 7 months ago they ordered quite a lot A350's from Airbus. That was no small order to say the least. See: Cathay Pacific To Order 26 A350-1000 (b
248 Post contains images sunrisevalley : My apologies, I used the quote from your posting totally out of context... sorry abba .
249 cloudyapple : Are you telling me the AutoCAD drawings I have been working with in the past 4 years are wrong?
250 Post contains images sweair : I think 77W and A3510 will be the largest frames they have in the future, maybe the 9X of the 777X if an when it is for sale. There seems to be a beli
251 Post contains links iowaman : Due to length of this thread, please continue the discussion here if you so desire: Cathay Pacific Evaluating A380 And 748i Part 2 (by iowaman Feb 9 2
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