Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Irish 2/13: February Made Me Shiver ...  
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 22248 times:

With every paper I'd deliver
Bad news on the doorstep.
I couldn't take one more step.

Sorry, going back a bit there, for the younger ones among us!

Anyway, back to 2013! Incidentally, did anyone know that this was the year that Marty McFly chose to travel forward to, in one of the Back to the Future movies? I'm still waiting for my flying skateboard!

The big thing we can expect to hear about, either during the course of this thread or the next, is the decision on FR's takeover plan for Aer Lingus; we've said a lot about this and with one or two exceptions, I think the general gist is that we're against it! Only today, the EU has said that this proposal had "one last chance" (although one has to wonder how many last chances it has had!). We wait with baited breath ...

Some good news for SNN, at last, with Flybe flying to GLA and we hope to see Transaero getting the green light for operation on the SNN-MIA run.

We don't expect to see any more t/a route news from DUB, since UA seems to have ruled out DUB-SFO and Aer Lingus has said there will be no new t/a routes this year, but DUB-SFO/YYZ tops its wish list.

We do expect some good news from Ryanair ... it's apparently in the final stages of a significant order for 737-800s; these will be the current model, not the NG; various figures have been mentioned, between 100 and 150. We can but wait ...

So, it looks like being an interesting month ahead!

Here's the link to 1/13, in case anyone wants to refer back ...
Irish 1/13; Brave New World (by kaitak Dec 31 2012 in Civil Aviation)

220 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 22251 times:

In case anyone missed the news from the last thread:

In news that is sure to please many, but perhaps Phil in particular, Swiss will be adding a second flight to their DUBZRH route to operate on Saturdays and Sundays only during the summer peak of late June, July and August.

Hopefully, Swiss is testing the waters for a second daily flight, which they had been rumoured to have wanted to add.

It is certainly significant that we now have IB, TK and LX finally moving towards more than a single daily service.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 22176 times:

Slight typo on the heading, I think it should read 2/13: February....

Im still dating everything as 2012.


User currently onlineshamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 22120 times:

The LX and TK increased frequencies are great! You won't see IB increasing frequency as they themselves don't fly to DUB!

I also mentioned towards the end of he last thread how good it is to see BA actively advertising DUB online quite a bit!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 22115 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 1):
In news that is sure to please many, but perhaps Phil in particular, Swiss will be adding a second flight to their DUBZRH route to operate on Saturdays and Sundays only during the summer peak of late June, July and August.

Whilst its good to see an increase it is not the amount hoped for. This Winter saw a cut back as other years of flights. The timings for the weekend flight are great for longhaul connections and the return is much better as it leaves ZRH later in the day but I doubt we will see Mon-Fri double daily anytime soon which is a shame. As much as Id love to see it I just dont think the demand is there. Still even though temporary just for the peak season its a welcome move.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 22081 times:

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 3):
You won't see IB increasing frequency as they themselves don't fly to DUB!

IB/I2, whatever they are calling themselves this week. It's still 100% owned by IB!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 22061 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 5):

Agreed. IB Express is Iberia in all but name. Same pilots, more or less the same service but just cheaper cabin crew!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 22037 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 5):
IB/I2, whatever they are calling themselves this week. It's still 100% owned by IB!

Indeed still Iberia to me too. IIRC you still have all the benefits of mainline IB with Iberia Plus such as lounges/earning and redeeming etc..


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 22018 times:

Quoting tonystan (Reply 6):
Agreed. IB Express is Iberia in all but name. Same pilots, more or less the same service but just cheaper cabin crew!
Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):
Indeed still Iberia to me too. IIRC you still have all the benefits of mainline IB with Iberia Plus such as lounges/earning and redeeming etc..

They are actually better than IB!

The cabin crew actually smile and occasionally even speak to you.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 21852 times:

'Last chance' for Aer Lingus bid

Quote:
Ryanair has one last chance to argue the merits of its latest attempt to acquire rival Aer Lingus, the European Union's antitrust chief said today, as he prepares to decide the deal's fate.

The no-frills carrier is making its third takeover bid for Aer Lingus after the European Commission blocked its first attempt in 2007 and Ryanair dropped its second in 2009.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...ium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Doesn't make it very clear but sounds like even after this there will be another chance for them to come up with concessions!


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 21837 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 9):
another chance for them to come up with concessions!

I just wish they were meaningful concessions; it is just like someone coming to your house and saying "I'd like to buy your house and in order to get regulatory approval, I'm going to sell YOUR garage, YOUR fireplace and half an acre of YOUR garden". Not much in the way of concessions from the person who is actually trying to buy the property.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 21716 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
is the decision on FR's takeover plan for Aer Lingus; we've said a lot about this and with one or two exceptions, I think the general gist is that we're against it! Only today, the EU has said that this proposal had "one last chance" (although one has to wonder how many last chances it has had!). We wait with baited breath ...
Quoting kaitak (Reply 10):
I just wish they were meaningful concessions; it is just like someone coming to your house and saying "I'd like to buy your house and in order to get regulatory approval, I'm going to sell YOUR garage, YOUR fireplace and half an acre of YOUR garden".

I think the issue here is that FR are not trying to buy the house from you, they are trying to convince the bank who gave you the mortgage that they will get a better return on investment by selling to FR. And doing whatever they can to dodge the objections of the local residents association.

FR want to convince EI shareholders to sell up and make a quick buck rather than sit there for the longhaul. Shares up to 128 today, could very well be funds buying at 120-128 in order to sell at 130+


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 21584 times:

Just some info on two former EI A330s:

EI-JFK is now AP-BKN of Shaheen Air and was delivered to Pakistan this week. It was previously (before it went to Shaheen Air) VP-BEQ of Vladivostok Avia.

The former EI-EWR is now (and has been for the past 2-3 years) PK-YVI of Batavia Air; unfortunately, Batavia Air went bust this week, so it remains to be seen what will happen to this aircraft. It may well be repossessed ... or end up as part of Jakarta's corrosion corner (which consists of quite a few aircraft!)


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7264 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 21531 times:

Interesting that the reason for the bankruptcy was the debt incurred due to the A330 leases.

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...ares-batavia-air-bankrupt-20130131



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 21310 times:

In July every Wednesday Arkia will operate DUB-TLV 2245/0605 with a B757. Shame you wont get to see it in daylight hours.

User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21109 times:

Aer Arann, Lao and Transasia confirm ATR 72-600 orders

Aer Arann Regional has finalized an order for eight ATR 72-600s originally at the Farnborough Air Show last summer.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...ransasia-confirm-atr-72-600-orders

Nice to see it confirmed, deliveries rumoured to start in May.


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21084 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 15):

So I take it the A76s will replace the 4 AT4s and 4 A72s already in the fleet? That'll leave 8 A76s and 4 A75s leaving RE with a refreshingly young fleet!

On a related note, RE has updated its website with EI branding:
http://www.aerarann.com/



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21072 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 16):
So I take it the A76s will replace the 4 AT4s and 4 A72s already in the fleet? That'll leave 8 A76s and 4 A75s leaving RE with a refreshingly young fleet!

Not entirely, it was said last year that the newer aircraft (-500s) would be gone first as they're expensive to lease but the 42s really need to go.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21054 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 15):

I'm surprised they've confirmed it - we sometimes forget that FR getting approval to take over EI would probably sink Aer Arann once and for all.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 21054 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 17):

Keeping the 42's is a good idea because weak routes like KIR, IOM and SEN need this aircraft type in particular IOM and KIR.

Also sunway will be operating a weekly KIR-PMI service between June and September. Air Nostrum will operate it with their CRJ's along with NOC service.


User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1956 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 20938 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 17):
Not entirely, it was said last year that the newer aircraft (-500s) would be gone first as they're expensive to lease but the 42s really need to go.

Seriously? Many of RE's aircraft are over 20 years old (patricularly the 42s). If not now then when as they must be not too far off their maximum number of flight cycles/hours.



Flown With EI,FR,RE,UA,CO,AA,WS,CX,QF,JQ: Airports SNN,GWY,ORK,DUB,NOC,LHR,STN,BOS,EWR,JFK,ORD,BOI,SEA,MCI,LHR,LYS,CDG,H
User currently onlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 20919 times:

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 20):
Seriously? Many of RE's aircraft are over 20 years old (patricularly the 42s). If not now then when as they must be not too far off their maximum number of flight cycles/hours.

The supported cycle limit on ATRs is extremely high though - seem to remember reading that it was 75,000 or so. Of course, ATR don't appear to make that public.

The KIR/CFN/GWY/SXL multiple rotations per day will not have helped the cycles though now that I think of it.


User currently offlinenu From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 20789 times:

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

Marty McFly went forward 30 years to 2015 not 2013

Last week during the high winds Dub was using the shorter north south runway . A FR flight from Lanzarote was approaching but then pulled out and flew directly over pier B and on wards towards the city before turning and heading for SNN. The departure to Lanzarote that lunchtime was delayed by a couple of hours. EI flights meanwhile circled for 20 minutes over Cavan and the Irish Sea. Eventually the wind died dwn sufficiently and planes started ysingthevwesterly runway.

2 questions:

In pulling out of the landing why did the FR flight also veer significantly left over pier B?

Did this demonstrate FR was not carrying fuelsufficient to circle like all the EI flights did?



Aer Maighdean abu
User currently offlineIRISH251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20618 times:

Quoting nu (Reply 22):
Last week during the high winds Dub was using the shorter north south runway . A FR flight from Lanzarote was approaching but then pulled out and flew directly over pier B and on wards towards the city before turning and heading for SNN. The departure to Lanzarote that lunchtime was delayed by a couple of hours. EI flights meanwhile circled for 20 minutes over Cavan and the Irish Sea. Eventually the wind died dwn sufficiently and planes started ysingthevwesterly runway.

2 questions:

In pulling out of the landing why did the FR flight also veer significantly left over pier B?

Did this demonstrate FR was not carrying fuelsufficient to circle like all the EI flights did?

A go-around is usually carried out on the runway heading before a turn is commenced. How sure are you that the aircraft "veered" as you suggest? In 40 years I don't think I have ever seen an aircraft overfly the terminal buildings at Dublin at low level.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20549 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting nu (Reply 22):
Did this demonstrate FR was not carrying fuel sufficient to circle like all the EI flights did?

Not at all. perhaps the captain just decided "...lets get to SNN rather than hanging around DUB in case the wind drops..."


User currently offlinenu From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20716 times:

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 23):

That's what got me. I was sitting in the old EI B lounge and had just seen a LH takeoff (Hairy to say the least) , was seeing the windows moving with the wind strength and heard this loud house directly overhead, saw it go over Coolock and straight before turning right probably over the city. I looked at flightradar and it was the FR from Lanzarote. There was about a 20 minute cessation of landings and departures ( the ek flight sat on the apron ready to go for about 25 minutes).

It was only a few days later I saw on board how far off the b pier is from the line of that runway



Aer Maighdean abu
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20730 times:

A Delta Air Lines 767-300ER operating flight DL593 (CDG-ORD) has diverted to SNN within the past hour. It's scheduled to continue to ORD at 13:30 so it looks like a medical diversion.


Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlinenu From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 20812 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 24):

Why did he/she just decide that and why did the other 7 or 8 circlers not do the same? This was the only FR plane involved btw



Aer Maighdean abu
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 20740 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Perhaps he didn't think the conditions would improve, perhaps he did have less fuel remaining than others in the hold, (doesn't mean there was any safety issues) perhaps he had a lower load and FR Ops were more willing to drop them elsewhere, perhaps the aircraft wasn't needed for another flight from DUB so FR Ops weren't worried about having to ferry it back to DUB.


Seen posted elsewhere that 28/10 at DUB is NOTAM'ed closed from 1005-1500.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20655 times:

Quoting nu (Reply 27):

Lanzarote can be a difficult flight in terms of payload.

If departing from the sea end of the runway at ACE, there are obstacle clearance issues due to terrain, which may limit your ability to take on extra fuel. The FR crew may not have been able to take on any extra over and above flight plan fuel because of this, and didnt want to waste their 30 minutes reserve fuel waiting for an improvement that may not have materialised.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineIRISH251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20625 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 28):
Seen posted elsewhere that 28/10 at DUB is NOTAM'ed closed from 1005-1500.

Repair work under way and runway due to reopen circa 1700.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 31, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 20600 times:

Air India seems to want to tap into some of the Irish market. Dont think they will get much when you think the amount of traffic EK EY get from the Indian and Pakistani communites but I guess every small amount is a bonus for them.

AIR INDIA - (GSA TENDER)

Air India invites bids from interested parties to be appointed as Passenger General Sales Agent. Tender document with all details is available on the Air India website www.airindia.com.

http://www.indianembassy.ie/news/recent-tender-notices


User currently offlineEIBusiness From Ireland, joined Feb 2010, 643 posts, RR: 7
Reply 32, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20379 times:

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 30):
Repair work under way and runway due to reopen circa 1700.

Arrived in DUB around 17.50 this evening with EI and we used RWY 28.

Another very windy period coming up over the next few days as a very wintry Northwesterly - Northerly flow sets up, with gusts occasionally enough to perhaps suspend air operations - especially in the Northwest.

EIBusiness



Vivo Per Lei...
User currently offlineJambost From Ireland, joined Jun 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 20218 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 31):

Always thought QR would make a move but AI is a nice surprise, could they beat EY to be DUB 's first 787 operator? They would need to move fast at least before EK announce their expected ac upgrade/ frequency increase.



1APR14 Ireland Direct, 3 A380-9LR,Equiped Irish Bar & Casino. All Y+ seating. Serving DUB-PER-SYD/MEL
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7264 posts, RR: 57
Reply 34, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 20209 times:

Quoting Jambost (Reply 33):
Always thought QR would make a move but AI is a nice surprise, could they beat EY to be DUB 's first 787 operator?

I doubt it - the GSA may be nothing more than trying to sell capacity ex London. However, AI did spend a lot of time analyzing Dublin a few years ago as part of their look at the optimization of their US services.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 20029 times:

Quoting Jambost (Reply 33):
Always thought QR would make a move but AI is a nice surprise, could they beat EY to be DUB 's first 787 operator? They would need to move fast at least before EK announce their expected ac upgrade/ frequency increase.

The GSA tender maybe for nothing more than a foot in the door and a Nett deal with EI or BA to provide flights via their LHR flights. It may not be AI metal from DUB. Similar to other airlines such as MH SQ who have representation in Ireland but dont fly here. They do however offer Nett fares for sale in the Irish market.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 36, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 19680 times:

Ryanair offering to PAY flybe to take over Aer Lingus' routes.

Desperate much?

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...410615-5218-510f-f83a-7a0dd2522097



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 19608 times:

PK now advertising SNN as one of its UK and Ireland destinations on its website:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2j1wzeh.jpg

Originally PK was to use SNN as a transit stop only on the outbound KHI/LHE-JFK with no local traffic rights but does this mean they intend to sell tickets to SNN passengers? It would be unreal if they did!



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 38, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 19515 times:

Well people...

I am back from Paris and I have just completed my Trip Report on the new Aer Lingus pre-order meals - I had both the new meals (one out and one back) and you can read about them and see them here.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ums/trip_reports/read.main/233554/

Hope you enjoy the trip report!  



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineJambost From Ireland, joined Jun 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 19512 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
Quoting OA260 (Reply 35):

I jumped the gun there, but no doubt good news for passengers looking for a choice of airlines to fly with indirectly.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 37):

It seems to be getting better and better for SNN    .

I am guessing that SNN offered PIA airport fee's they could not refuse. Logistically if PIA wanted additional passengers they would choose DUB or am I missing something like cargo contracts?



1APR14 Ireland Direct, 3 A380-9LR,Equiped Irish Bar & Casino. All Y+ seating. Serving DUB-PER-SYD/MEL
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 40, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19477 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 38):
Hope you enjoy the trip report!  

Good stuff  
Quoting Jambost (Reply 39):
I am guessing that SNN offered PIA airport fee's they could not refuse. Logistically if PIA wanted additional passengers they would choose DUB or am I missing something like cargo contracts?

Well if they have to transit stop anyway why not pick up pax. With the tender for ticketing and check in desks it certainly means its more than transit they are seeking. So the question will be is it just Ireland-Pakistan or is it also for the TATL hop. The latter would be interesting for sure but this was the aim last time around and it never happened. When its loaded for sale on the website and in CRS I will take it seriously. Then the other question is how long will it last.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 41, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 19388 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 40):

Are PIA going to stop in both directions or just westbound?
Might be a tough sale if it's only one way!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 42, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 19319 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 41):
Are PIA going to stop in both directions or just westbound?
Might be a tough sale if it's only one way!

Well if its only oneway then its doomed ! If BA only offered oneway even they couldnt make it let alone PIA! Jokes aside can you see most Irish people wanting to fly PIA over EI ? Id do it for the craic and as an Anetter its a cool thing to do but everyday people would not be so keen. Thats of course if they even offer USA . For the Ireland-Pakistan they might pick up some Midlands/West Coast diaspora traffic but any Pakistanis I know here and in the UK take Gulf carriers and wouldnt fly PIA themselves.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 19276 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 36):
Ryanair offering to PAY flybe to take over Aer Lingus' routes.

Desperate much?

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...22097

The way things are going now, i think it's looking more and more likely that EI will end up in O'leary's hands. He is totally determined to see this through and if he keeps offering concessions to alleviate the reasons for rejection by the EU, then eventually the EU will have to allow it.

It will be a disaster for Irish aviation and everyone employed in it, but the more i think about it the more i'm convinced that the reason he has remained as CEO is to see through his crusade against the established Aviation bodies in Ireland that have P**ed him off over the years. Getting EI is really just the stepping stone to the rest of his targets, such as:
DAA
Siptu
Ialpa


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19254 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 41):

I was told it was to be one way only with the JFK-LHE/KHI flights nonstop. But this the prospect of offering local sales is unprecedented to say the least so I don't know what the story is now!



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineEIBoston From Ireland, joined Sep 2006, 458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19230 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 43):
The way things are going now, i think it's looking more and more likely that EI will end up in O'leary's hands. He is totally determined to see this through and if he keeps offering concessions to alleviate the reasons for rejection by the EU, then eventually the EU will have to allow it.

It will be a disaster for Irish aviation and everyone employed in it, but the more i think about it the more i'm convinced that the reason he has remained as CEO is to see through his crusade against the established Aviation bodies in Ireland that have P**ed him off over the years. Getting EI is really just the stepping stone to the rest of his targets, such as:
DAA
Siptu
Ialpa

So I have kind of tuned out of this whole FR/EI takeover stuff. However my understanding was the government were not prepared to see their shares to FR even if the EU allowed a possible takeover. And without the govt shares then FR can't take over anyway right? Or am I missing something here?


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 46, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 19143 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 45):
However my understanding was the government were not prepared to see their shares to FR even if the EU allowed a possible takeover. And without the govt shares then FR can't take over anyway right? Or am I missing something here?

The Govt currently own 25%, FR own 29%. The FR offer is aimed at the other 46% of shareholders.

The Govt refusal does however mean that FR cannot outright takeover the company by holding over 75% of it, but they can still become the majority shareholder. I may well be wrong but that was how it was explained to me. If FR hold more than 75% they can force the remaining shareholders to sell.

I am of the same thinking as Clydenairways, this smacks of vendetta rather than a purely business decision.


User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19094 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 46):

FR will never own over 75% so it won't be an issure forcing the Goverment to sell. Lets call a spade a spade EI crew holding and EY holding won't go to FR. If cleared to takeover I think FR will get at most 20% on top of their current share. Once this business is finished then they will be some further developments with EY and of course EI regional services. Currently uncertain times for EI but the future will be bright once FR are out of the picture.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 48, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 19068 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 43):
The way things are going now, i think it's looking more and more likely that EI will end up in O'leary's hands. He is totally determined to see this through and if he keeps offering concessions to alleviate the reasons for rejection by the EU, then eventually the EU will have to allow it.

I have to disagree, but not just out of wishful thinking; you have to look at the respect FR has shown to EI's operations with all of the concessions it is offering (from EI!) ... paying a failing regional carrier to operate a huge amount of EI's routes and giving away other routes, like LGW to BA. OK, maybe some shareholders might feel the need to sell, but what must be clear to them is that FR doesn't want just to buy EI, but to destroy it. I am sure this is not lost on the EU Commission.

The EU has also upped the ante a bit by demanding board approval for all of the proposed concessions by close to business today (Tuesday) - and not just of FR, but BE and BA as well. This is going to be an interesting day ...

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 44):
I was told it was to be one way only with the JFK-LHE/KHI flights nonstop

The problem for PK is that the Americans won't approve nonstop flights from Pakistan to the US, due to security issues, which is why they have to make an en route stop; there's obviously no issue on the return flight. Presumably they have to screen all baggage at SNN during the stopover.


User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1956 posts, RR: 9
Reply 49, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19010 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 37):
PK now advertising SNN as one of its UK and Ireland destinations on its website:

That certainly would be a cool (if rarely used) route from SNN. If PIA are advertising Ireland as a destination then presumably the flights woll stop in both directions and they intend to sell O&D tickets for SNN-LHE/KHI.



Flown With EI,FR,RE,UA,CO,AA,WS,CX,QF,JQ: Airports SNN,GWY,ORK,DUB,NOC,LHR,STN,BOS,EWR,JFK,ORD,BOI,SEA,MCI,LHR,LYS,CDG,H
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18902 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 48):
I have to disagree, but not just out of wishful thinking; you have to look at the respect FR has shown to EI's operations with all of the concessions it is offering (from EI!) ... paying a failing regional carrier to operate a huge amount of EI's routes and giving away other routes, like LGW to BA. OK, maybe some shareholders might feel the need to sell, but what must be clear to them is that FR doesn't want just to buy EI, but to destroy it. I am sure this is not lost on the EU Commission.

The EU has also upped the ante a bit by demanding board approval for all of the proposed concessions by close to business today (Tuesday) - and not just of FR, but BE and BA as well. This is going to be an interesting day ...

Well all of us know the concessions offered are not viable but the point is he will keep making more and more of them until a point is reached where the EU can no longer find any more reasons to object to it. He just doesn't want to give up on this.

I would say for O'Leary there is a very strong element of personal crusade in this but he has also obviously got board approval for this as well.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18905 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kaitak (Reply 48):
you have to look at the respect FR has shown to EI's operations with all of the concessions it is offering (from EI!) ... paying a failing regional carrier to operate a huge amount of EI's routes and giving away other routes, like LGW to BA. OK, maybe some shareholders might feel the need to sell, but what must be clear to them is that FR doesn't want just to buy EI, but to destroy it. I am sure this is not lost on the EU Commission.

Again it appears to rest on the EI shareholders relationship with the EI CEO and his team. If they believe in his track record and trust he will deliver more results then they should stick with him, if however they are just in for a quick buck then they will sell to FR.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 48):
The EU has also upped the ante a bit by demanding board approval for all of the proposed concessions by close to business today (Tuesday) - and not just of FR,

Could this be an issue for FR......it was said (not sure how reliably) that the US based FR shareholders were not happy with the time/effort expended in the past takeover attempts. And the FR document last summer stated that board/shareholder approval was not required as the value of the offer was under 50% of the FR market value.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 52, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18577 times:

I think "Ryanlingus" is about to become reality folks!

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...410615-5218-5110-aed9-c63335630553



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 53, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18544 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
I think "Ryanlingus" is about to become reality folks!

I doubt it and in fairness that article is a bit of a mix of other articles I have read over the last few days . 2+2 equals 5 and all that . Lots of hurdles yet and I doubt they will get over the first few TBH. Dont cut up your GC cards yet lol..  


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 54, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18534 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 53):

I hope you are right Phil. I dont like flying with either Ryanair or Flybe to tell you the truth.

BA, sure, i'd fly them any day.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineEIBusiness From Ireland, joined Feb 2010, 643 posts, RR: 7
Reply 55, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 18519 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):

I think "Ryanlingus" is about to become reality folks!

This is undeniably a final attempt at the achievement of a personal crusade long yearned for by MOL. When we talk about the Board at Ryanair - yes there is a Board in place, yes the company is broadly compliant with Western Corporate Governance best practice - but aren't many such companies - where one central individual holds the balance of power, beyond that even normally associated with the CEO.

You can be assured that Aer Lingus have been expending material resources and will re-double their commitment to making available resources to fend off this last ditch takeover attempt.

Surely, the EU Commission is not blind to the fact that these ''binding'' agreements have not been reached in the ordinary course of business - they are solely and exclusively for the purposes of this bid - undoubtedly reversible at the stroke of a pen into the future.

Aer Lingus has come a very long way in recent years - it is a unique, viable and positive cash generating business that will succeed best through further development from its current phase - not through dismemberment.

EIBusiness



Vivo Per Lei...
User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 56, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18482 times:

Do we really expect BA to make LGW-Ireland routes work while they wait for FR to get 75% of EI? They might have quite a long wait for those LHR slots.

Either way no other airline will have the same level of commitment to the Irish market as EI, the likes of BE and BA will up and run when things get tough and they will get tough once FR is allowed to turn up the heat, especially on BE. At least Ryanair's intentions are very clear now and I bet they've been the same since the first bid in 2006.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 57, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18466 times:

These "competitive remedies" are seldom any good anyway, and I think the commision know this.

When Cityjet bought VLM, the EU intervened due to concerns about competition on the London-Amsterdam route. AFKL actually found another airline to compete with them on LCY-AMS (Eastern Airways) as part of the remedies sought.

Eastern were gone in weeks.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently onlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18448 times:

How high would FR's spending have to be on a proposed new bid (as remember, not only was the "existing" bid withdrawn, it was at 1.30 - which is currently a 1c premium over trading) before *their* shareholders could object, e.g. at an EGM?

Having to bid 1.40-1.50 plus putting 100M and some craft in to the JV with BE would be getting towards quite expensive/


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 59, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18440 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 54):
Flybe to tell you the truth.

In fairness BE are not too bad I have never really had a bad experience on them apart from a weather related cancellation and a few techs on their rubber band A/C but the E Jets I love. Their website is a pain but no where near as bad as FR . Nothing against FR but their fares are certainly a monopoly on IRE-UK flights. I always check them for the craic just to compare and they are far from low fares. One reason I have not flown them in years. EI BA BE have always been cheaper for my travel dates or the same which make FR unattractive.

Quoting EIBusiness (Reply 55):
This is undeniably a final attempt at the achievement of a personal crusade long yearned for by MOL.

Indeed . Your were dead on about the weather BTW  
Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 56):
Either way no other airline will have the same level of commitment to the Irish market as EI

True at least with Aer Lingus they offer a decent service and route network and are what I would term a ''friendly'' airline. Lets hope this game is over ASAP so they can get on with the future of expansion and product ehancement a lot of which is already underway.


User currently offlineEIBusiness From Ireland, joined Feb 2010, 643 posts, RR: 7
Reply 60, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 18405 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 59):
Indeed . Your were dead on about the weather BTW   

LOL! Thanks! 'Down south we had some heavy snowfall overnight and into this morning with some squally winds making for blizzard like conditions!

EIBusiness



Vivo Per Lei...
User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1956 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18134 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hardly sounds like an airline recently described as "going nowhere"

Aer Lingus operating profits rise by 40.7%

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...us-operating-profits-rise-by-40-7/



Flown With EI,FR,RE,UA,CO,AA,WS,CX,QF,JQ: Airports SNN,GWY,ORK,DUB,NOC,LHR,STN,BOS,EWR,JFK,ORD,BOI,SEA,MCI,LHR,LYS,CDG,H
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 62, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18143 times:

Some more good news for Aer Lingus :

Aer Lingus has reported an 8.2% increase in revenues for 2012, while operating profits before exceptional items jumped 40.7% to €69.1m.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...us-operating-profits-rise-by-40-7/


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 63, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 18089 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EIDL (Reply 58):
How high would FR's spending have to be on a proposed new bid (as remember, not only was the "existing" bid withdrawn, it was at 1.30 - which is currently a 1c premium over trading) before *their* shareholders could object, e.g. at an EGM?

Well the bid was valued at E694M, add another 100M to pay BE. I read it in the initial bid offer that as the offer was under 50% value of FR it does not need FR board approval. Whether this was stated to pre-empt any queries or merely thrown in as an afterthought I do not know.

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 56):
Either way no other airline will have the same level of commitment to the Irish market as EI, the likes of BE and BA will up and run when things get tough and they will get tough once FR is allowed to turn up the heat, especially on BE.

Always been my thoughts, of the 4 airlines in this mix only 1 is irrevocably tied to the island of Ireland and pretty much unable to leave that market.

Quoting EIBusiness (Reply 55):
You can be assured that Aer Lingus have been expending material resources and will re-double their commitment to making available resources to fend off this last ditch takeover attempt.

Surely, the EU Commission is not blind to the fact that these ''binding'' agreements have not been reached in the ordinary course of business - they are solely and exclusively for the purposes of this bid - undoubtedly reversible at the stroke of a pen into the future.

I wonder how much the EI CEO's previous history in Brussels may be used as leverage at this time, he spent many years there. Perhaps he may have more individual sway than

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
I think "Ryanlingus" is about to become reality folks!

Lets be clear.....being allowed to make an offer to EI shareholders is still not the same as actually gaining a controlling majority.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 61):
Hardly sounds like an airline recently described as "going nowhere"

Aer Lingus operating profits rise by 40.7%

Really Tony, MoL will tell us these are massaged figures not indicative of the harsh realities that a small regional airline faces in the rough and tumble aviation sector, such low margins are the reason EI needs to be part of a larger Irish airlines group........  

[Edited 2013-02-06 00:45:23]

User currently offlinectrl_alt_del From Ireland, joined Feb 2001, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17982 times:

Anyone know the background to this?

http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=1198356

Asking price?


User currently offlinekeegd76 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Aug 2009, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 17989 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Belfast Telegraph reporting that Flybe has agreed with FR to take on 43 of EI's short haul routes

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...nairs-aer-lingus-bid-16270641.html



Nothing comes down faster than a VTOL aircraft upside down.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 66, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17869 times:

Quoting keegd76 (Reply 65):

If the EU approved a deal and if a sale was ever to take place which is highly unlikely.  


User currently offlineVFRonTop From Ireland, joined Oct 2012, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17836 times:

Ok, im going to admit it, I'm really not understanding this. Can someone explain to me what is MOL looking to get out of EI?

- He doesn't want the LHR slots as he is happy to farm these out to BA and sell once appropriate

- He can't want their shorthaul network as he wants to hand half to BE.

- EI cant be that much of a thorn in his side I mean if he was so inclined he could get FR to operate the same network for goddam free for two years and just crush EI , which would still cost less than this takeover bid.

- It cant be EI liquid assets (cash reserves) lord knows FR needs an elastic band around its wallet already

- It cant be solely for the TATL ops as he could easily lease some A330's and start operating it himself without inheriting EI operating costs and contracts.

Is it the codeshares/partners, headquarters, Terminal 2, the shamrock?!?
What could he possibly want from them that he can't get through his usual cut-throat way. Why is this takeover bid so important to him?


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 68, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 17837 times:

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 67):

There's the thing - he cant crush EI in the normal way. God knows, he's tried. He's gone up against them on almost every European route, and EI still outcarry FR on most of them. The FR model has reached the limits of its attractiveness in Ireland, but it cant be changed very easily just for the Irish market, because that adds complexity. The FR model still works well elsewhere where it is relatively newer.

You eventually reach a point where you want a bit more from your travel experience, and most Irish reached that point long ago. It'll happen elsewhere eventually, and FR will then have to adapt to it.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17768 times:

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 67):
Ok, im going to admit it, I'm really not understanding this. Can someone explain to me what is MOL looking to get out of EI?

- He doesn't want the LHR slots as he is happy to farm these out to BA and sell once appropriate

- He can't want their shorthaul network as he wants to hand half to BE.

- EI cant be that much of a thorn in his side I mean if he was so inclined he could get FR to operate the same network for goddam free for two years and just crush EI , which would still cost less than this takeover bid.

- It cant be EI liquid assets (cash reserves) lord knows FR needs an elastic band around its wallet already

- It cant be solely for the TATL ops as he could easily lease some A330's and start operating it himself without inheriting EI operating costs and contracts.

Is it the codeshares/partners, headquarters, Terminal 2, the shamrock?!?
What could he possibly want from them that he can't get through his usual cut-throat way. Why is this takeover bid so important to him?

He doesn't really need/want anything that EI has. I can imagine he is convincing some of his own shareholders on why he is doing this would be something along the lines of this:
Future Dominance of Irish Market will increase FR yields by X.
Future lower Irish employee costs due no other alternatives for employment.
More stable FR workforce due no other alternatives for employment.
Future lower Irish Airport and ATC charges due to new dominant position.
The only dominant player in Irish Aviation can influence Government Aviation and tourism policy to suit FR agenda.
Unions Siptu and Ialpa involvement in Irish Aviation destroyed.
Dominant control of Dublin Airport and crush DAA semi state legacy practices.

So i'm sure that he has already shown to FR shareholders that they can easily get a return on this investment and a lot more.


User currently offlineJambost From Ireland, joined Jun 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17647 times:

Rumour on other thread that BHD could be one of 3 new routes to be served by KL.

KLM To Add 3 More UK Destinations In 2013? (by Pe@rson Feb 4 2013 in Civil Aviation)

A cooperation between KL and EI could only strengthen KL 's chances to succeed against U2's indirect competition.
Is BHD really on the verge of gaining a 3rd flag carrier?



1APR14 Ireland Direct, 3 A380-9LR,Equiped Irish Bar & Casino. All Y+ seating. Serving DUB-PER-SYD/MEL
User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17647 times:

Quoting Jambost (Reply 70):

It is not possible for EI to codeshare with KLM at BHD. KLM have a 2 routes per country rule and Ireland have EI at DUB and ORK and BE in the UK. Belfast is part of the UK.


User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17608 times:

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 71):
It is not possible for EI to codeshare with KLM at BHD. KLM have a 2 routes per country rule and Ireland have EI at DUB and ORK and BE in the UK. Belfast is part of the UK.

Don't they still code share services with KQ and AF between UK and AMS?


User currently onlineshamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 73, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17514 times:

Just noticed that there is now an Aer Lingus source offering information about Aer Lingus ops! www.lingussource.com

Quite surprised at the high amount of charters they have been operating recently!


User currently offlineJambost From Ireland, joined Jun 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17494 times:

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 71):

It is not possible for EI to codeshare with KLM at BHD. KLM have a 2 routes per country rule and Ireland have EI at DUB and ORK and BE in the UK

Did not not know that, thanks for filling me in. An e-jet could work well for them on the route, has BE ever attempted AMS from BHD?

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 71):
Belfast is part of the UK.

That I do know  

Nice sight from BFS today,

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u491/Jambost/20130206_155246_1_zpsdbca10b1.jpg

Shame I could not get a better view, but anyone know what cargo has brought such a beast back to BFS?
Seen it before in BFS in 2008/9 cant remember exactly.



1APR14 Ireland Direct, 3 A380-9LR,Equiped Irish Bar & Casino. All Y+ seating. Serving DUB-PER-SYD/MEL
User currently offlineDublinspotter From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2011, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17466 times:

Hi

Quoting Jambost (Reply 74):

I think it may have something to do with the wings that are being mbuild by bombardier in Belfast for the c- series, I was told for the first few airframes they are chartering antonovs but the rest when production starts will be transported by ships i think  

Dublinspotter



Dublinspotter :)
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 76, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17452 times:

Quoting Dublinspotter (Reply 75):

I'm actually drooling at the thoughts of the C series! There's some pics on line of the first few aircraft. A great looking plane!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17452 times:

Quoting Jambost (Reply 70):
Rumour on other thread that BHD could be one of 3 new routes to be served by KL.

Given the vast KL UK route network, maybe they are also looking at adding an Irish destination or two? Whether that means operating DUB and/or ORK on their own metal or adding SNN or NOC while maintaining the status quo with the EI codeshare arrangement, who knows?



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 78, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17446 times:

Just had a listen to Mueller on Newstalk. He compared FR's Flybe proposal to selling crack in a school playground where the first dose is free.

I must say, he sounded pretty confident....



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 79, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17452 times:

There was mention on another site of a winter lease of an A330 for charters to the Caribbean and elsewhere (wonder if they might give CPT a go?)

This ties in with a rumour mentioned above of EI looking at some EY A330s, although the latest rumour suggests a wet lease.

Another thing which comes to mind about the whole EI/FR situation: the British OFT is still conducting its own investigation into the FR shareholding in EI and while there has been some discussion as to whether it could compel a sale, I wonder if it is taking stock of the current situation. The MO'L/FR mask is now well and truly off and the proposals FR has been making - as desperate as they are - do point to the reality of FR's attitude towards EI. It is not about helping EI or making it work more efficiently, joint purchasing or combining their efficiencies; it's about annihilation pure and simple. It should therefore be up to the OFT to reach the conclusion that the continued shareholding by FR in EI is not in the interests of competition or the consumer and serves no justifiable purpose.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 62):
Some more good news for Aer Lingus :

Aer Lingus has reported an 8.2% increase in revenues for 2012, while operating profits before exceptional items jumped 40.7% to €69.1m.

And the first time they have ever exceeded 10m passengers in a year! EI joins the big league! I still remember when EI was carrying barely over 2m!

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 73):
Just noticed that there is now an Aer Lingus source offering information about Aer Lingus ops! www.lingussource.com

I really like those sites (this is one of several) and I am delighted that someone has finally created one for EI.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 80, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17377 times:

Quoting Jambost (Reply 70):

KLM BHD I doubt that very much.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 81, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17291 times:

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 73):
Just noticed that there is now an Aer Lingus source offering information about Aer Lingus ops! www.lingussource.com

That site doesn't work... ?



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 82, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17283 times:

I sometimes have to ask myself if MOL is actually serious when he pens this crap:

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryana...s-uk-apd-tax-costs-jobs-and-growth


How much have they increased charges and indeed added new ones lately?

They give out over a measly 3 euro contribution to the national finances that they dont even pay?



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 83, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17241 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 81):
That site doesn't work... ?

Here's the link,

http://www.thelingussource.com/

Seat maps and all!

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 73):
Quite surprised at the high amount of charters they have been operating recently!

Very interesting site, thanks Shamrock321! I knew they did quite a few charters out of LGW but didn't know that many were operating from DUB, seems another part of Mueller's plan for the airline.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 84, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17244 times:

I also like the comment in the Aer Lingus announcement -

"becoming the anchor tenant in the new Terminal 2 at London Heathrow as of 2014,"

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 83):
Here's the link,

http://www.thelingussource.com/

Seat maps and all!

Thank you   I'll check it out now!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17212 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 83):

This winter and last winter EI have expanded there charter services from DUB and LGW, a very good way to utilize aircraft when they are not doing scheduled work, then there is the A332 from United going to be kept busy for the next 3 winters, by the looks of things EI will be operating for Thomas Cook out of MAN and LGW.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17012 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 78):
Just had a listen to Mueller on Newstalk. He compared FR's Flybe proposal to selling crack in a school playground where the first dose is free.

I was listening to the podcast this morning...when asked about the FlyBE/E100M offer he responded with a statement asking does it make sense to offer double that airlines market capitalisation to give it routes? "turn that question around, we would be very happy if FR felt like donating twice our market cap to us"

He also referred to himself as Darwinian in that he believes that in business the strong companies must survive at teh expense of weaker ones. Why would a strong profitable company be broken up and given to a weak, almost ailing company?

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 67):
I'm really not understanding this. Can someone explain to me what is MOL looking to get out of EI? ......What could he possibly want from them that he can't get through his usual cut-throat way. Why is this takeover bid so important to him?

The only tangible assets that EI have that FR want is the Shamrock across the Atlantic. Selling 43 routes to FlyBE is effectively killing EI shorthaul. As above, this is not about joining the Irish together or growing the company, it is about killing off a competitor who has managed to fight us off for many years.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 79):
The MO'L/FR mask is now well and truly off and the proposals FR has been making - as desperate as they are - do point to the reality of FR's attitude towards EI. It is not about helping EI or making it work more efficiently, joint purchasing or combining their efficiencies; it's about annihilation pure and simple.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 79):
There was mention on another site of a winter lease of an A330 for charters to the Caribbean and elsewhere (wonder if they might give CPT a go?)
Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 85):
This winter and last winter EI have expanded there charter services from DUB and LGW, a very good way to utilize aircraft when they are not doing scheduled work, then there is the A332 from United going to be kept busy for the next 3 winters, by the looks of things EI will be operating for Thomas Cook out of MAN and LGW.

Well during the prelim results podcast earlier today, Mueller mentioned "major tour operator....routes to the Caribbean.from a base in Scandanavia.."
This info is on the page 6 of the Prelim results PDF.
http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media...nary_announcement_311212_Final.pdf

[Edited 2013-02-06 16:39:03]

User currently offlineJambost From Ireland, joined Jun 2010, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16989 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 77):
maybe they are also looking at adding an Irish destination or two?

Unfortunately it seems to be just 3 new unserved UK destinations. Maybe KL are happy with EI 's partnership and seen a gap in the market in BHD that only a small regional aircraft could fill?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 80):
KLM BHD I doubt that very much.

I agree but BHD is rumoured to be a possibility by opinions of others, probably since it is unserved by KL 's network. It surprised me that BHD was even mentioned as a candidate. Time will sort the rumours out.



1APR14 Ireland Direct, 3 A380-9LR,Equiped Irish Bar & Casino. All Y+ seating. Serving DUB-PER-SYD/MEL
User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16959 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 86):

Then it will probaly be Thomas Cook but in TCX Scandanavia. Thomas Cook and TUI are the only tow major European operators.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 89, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 16796 times:

Quoting Jambost (Reply 87):

I would maybe look towards England .


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 90, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16669 times:

The FR bid is looking increasingly desperate and transparent. this bid is about one thing, killing the only airline that has successfully competed with FR, not only competing but succeeding in increasing revenue, market share and ancillary revenue.

It is interesting that EI will partly own the new RE ATRs and lease them to RE, on commercial terms. I imagine that EI were able to secure more favourable terms than a recently bankrupt small regional airline.

Increased charter work, high load factors in short and long haul flights, in house maintenance and increasing ancillary revenue are all more reminiscent of the EI of old, before WW stripped much of the business away.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16529 times:

Hi

Does anyone know when EI are likely to have their winter (2013/4) schedule loaded on their website?

Thanks

Alex


User currently offlineIRISH251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 92, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16289 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 83):
Here's the link,

http://www.thelingussource.com/

Seat maps and all!

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 73):
Quite surprised at the high amount of charters they have been operating recently!

Very interesting site, thanks Shamrock321! I knew they did quite a few charters out of LGW but didn't know that many were operating from DUB, seems another part of Mueller's plan for the airline.

The site is not an official one so I am not clear how those can definitely be said to be charters. The "2" prefix used to mean an extra section on a scheduled route, usually where loads are abnormally heavy, e.g. LHR-DUB at Christmas. Aer Lingus are operating some genuine weekend charters on ski routes at the moment, I think. Up till the ear;y 1990s or so Aer Lingus had a large charter side whereby on Saturday evenings most of the 737 fleet, maybe a 707 and some 1-11s would operate IT charters to such destinations as PMI, IBZ, AGP. FAO, ATH and CFU. They would be back in time for the next day's operations, as outbound morning flights did not kick off till somewhat later than they do now.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 93, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16250 times:

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 92):

I remember the ATH charters they were linked in with USIT in Dublin many moons ago. It was B737s then.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 94, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16201 times:

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 92):
The site is not an official one so I am not clear how those can definitely be said to be charters. The "2" prefix used to mean an extra section on a scheduled route, usually where loads are abnormally heavy, e.g. LHR-DUB at Christmas. Aer Lingus are operating some genuine weekend charters on ski routes at the moment, I think. Up till the ear;y 1990s or so Aer Lingus had a large charter side whereby on Saturday evenings most of the 737 fleet, maybe a 707 and some 1-11s would operate IT charters to such destinations as PMI, IBZ, AGP. FAO, ATH and CFU. They would be back in time for the next day's operations, as outbound morning flights did not kick off till somewhat later than they do now.

The 747's were also used on many charters. I flew to LDE and LPA on EI 747's back in the 1980's, and countless times down to AGP on 737's mainly from DUB, but once from SNN also. There were also BAC 1-11 ops to NCE, which I also used once.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently onlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 16138 times:

I've been horribly delayed checking in in LGW of a Sunday morning due to a skiing charter to GNB before, not that long ago either. Every single passenger had oversized bags, two desks were handling them and one handling DUB checkins - which was occupied by two elderly American gentlemen having trouble figuring out what way to pay for something.

Not helped by the fastpass terminals vanishing when they moved the desks from the old side area (alongside Transat) to the main one!


User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 96, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16025 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 91):

Should be up during March/April


User currently offlineIRISH251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 980 posts, RR: 4
Reply 97, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16035 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 94):
The 747's were also used on many charters. I flew to LDE and LPA on EI 747's back in the 1980's, and countless times down to AGP on 737's mainly from DUB, but once from SNN also.

This 747 flight was indeed arriving from Lourdes:

EI-ASI Boeing 747-148 by Irish251, on Flickr


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 15985 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

DUB twitter page just updated. DL to JFK, UA to EWR as well as all EI flights to JFK and BOS cancelled tomorrow.

Due to the big winter storm they got happening. 12+ inches of snow forecast for NYC, Long Island and New England (Boston is actually 20+)


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15691 times:

UA24 EWR-SNN operated overnight but the return UA25 did not and that aircraft is parked remotely at SNN now.

Also both BA flights through SNN (BA1, BA3) are cancelled today.

[Edited 2013-02-08 08:10:02]


Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 100, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15542 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 99):
UA24 EWR-SNN operated overnight but the return UA25 did not and that aircraft is parked remotely at SNN now.

Also both BA flights through SNN (BA1, BA3) are cancelled today.

Also N14107 is parked remotely at DUB :

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/file_zps4f466ab1.jpg


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 101, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15564 times:

From last to first - it seems the new AA/US will now become Dublin's largest US airline.


The combined carrier will offer Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, and Charlotte from DUB. Let's hope none of those services get "consolidated" away!

They will still be runner up at Shannon though with just the PHL service.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 15569 times:

United Airlines flight UA935 (LHR-LAX) was diverted to SNN today due to smoke in the flight deck. The 777-200ER operating the flight landed at SNN at 13:10 and the remainder of the flight to LAX was cancelled. So moral of the story: there are two UA aircraft on remote stands at SNN now. Would be nice to see pics if anyone was around today, or indeed early tomorrow morning...!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifest...-11e2-b3f3-b263d708ca37_story.html



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlinedergay From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15451 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
In July every Wednesday Arkia will operate DUB-TLV 2245/0605 with a B757. Shame you wont get to see it in daylight hours.

EL AL = Every Landing Arrives Late - you'll see it in daylight!   



Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 104, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15438 times:

Quoting dergay (Reply 103):
EL AL = Every Landing Arrives Late - you'll see it in daylight!

It's Arkia though, who seem to be a tad more punctual.

In any case, if its a 2245 dep from Dublin, arrival in Dublin will probably be around 2100 or so. Which is still bright at that time of year!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1956 posts, RR: 9
Reply 105, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15247 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 102):
United Airlines flight UA935 (LHR-LAX) was diverted to SNN today due to smoke in the flight deck. The 777-200ER operating the flight landed at SNN at 13:10 and the remainder of the flight to LAX was cancelled. So moral of the story: there are two UA aircraft on remote stands at SNN now. Would be nice to see pics if anyone was around today, or indeed early tomorrow morning...!

Is it just my imagination or does it seem that there have been alot of recent diversions to SNN lately as a result of smoke in the cockpit/cabin?



Flown With EI,FR,RE,UA,CO,AA,WS,CX,QF,JQ: Airports SNN,GWY,ORK,DUB,NOC,LHR,STN,BOS,EWR,JFK,ORD,BOI,SEA,MCI,LHR,LYS,CDG,H
User currently offlinedstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 106, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 15162 times:

Came across this set of photos mentioned on another thread.
They are from the golden age of interesting aircraft and of less restricted airport access.
: Airport Scenes 1951 - 1960
https://plus.google.com/photos/110240617967423845676/albums/5464925727830492753/5783454756980102018?banner=pwa#photos/110240617967423845676/albums/5464925727830492753/5783454756980102018?banner=pwa

It includes several shots from SNN and also shots of EI's leased Super Constellations.
Well worth a browse on another dull day

[Edited 2013-02-09 01:58:33]

[Edited 2013-02-09 01:59:29]

User currently offlinePenPusher From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 14994 times:

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 106):
Came across this set of photos mentioned on another thread.
They are from the golden age of interesting aircraft and of less restricted airport access.
: Airport Scenes 1951 - 1960

Excellent find, surprised we did not get it sooner.
www.zoggavia.com is the home page.


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14661 times:

Update on the UA 777 grounded at SNN - it was due to depart to LAX today as flight 1749 at 11:00 but was subsequently cancelled. Another UA 777 will be ferried over from LHR tomorrow morning (as flight UA6860 arriving SNN 09:17) and will depart to LAX as flight UA1760 at 11:00. As for the grounded 777, I don't know if its still undergoing repairs at SNN or if it's been ferried off somehere else.

I also don't know if flight UA1760 will preclear USCBP at SNN (any ideas?).



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14371 times:

UA1760 finally departed at 12:09, over an hour late.

Ryanair is to increase frequency on the ALC-KIR route for the month of July. The service will operate 3x weekly (up from 2x weekly).



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 110, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14178 times:

Aer Lingus Regional's SEN-DUB route will be operated by a Dublin based aircraft from April 1st and result in the closure of the Southend base. The first departure was always a bit of a problem due to the lack of any public transport from Central London to Southend Airport at that time in the morning, the first train arrives a few minutes before the flight departs making it impossible to use.

The route currently remains at 3 daily, hopefully it stays this way with the new timings for summer.


User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 111, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13669 times:

Aer Arann extends Aer Lingus franchise deal until 2022

Adds DUB-BHX and MAN from this summer.

Quote:
Aer Arann has said it is extending its franchise agreement with Aer Lingus until 2022. This will see the airline operate under the Aer Lingus Regional brand until the end of that year.

The airline also announced plans to double its passenger numbers to over two million in five years and to join Europe's top tier of regional airlines by 2015.

In a statement today, Aer Arann said it has completed a successful restructuring of the airline, which has put it on a ''strong financial footing''.

As part of a ''new beginning'' at the airline, it said that it will add two new routes to its services this summer. The new routes are from Dublin to Birmingham and Dublin to Manchester, which will increase its passenger numbers by 330,000 by the end of next year and bring the airline route network to 24.

Also plans to increase frequency to EDI and GLA.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...xtends-aer-lingus-deal-until-2022/


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13640 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 111):
Adds DUB-BHX and MAN from this summer.

Good news. Still waiting for LPL  


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 113, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13636 times:

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 111):
Adds DUB-BHX and MAN from this summer.

Interesting.

Manchester is 3 x daily from Dublin with A320s at the moment, looking at June. I wonder what the aircraft will do instead?

It looks like the Birmingham is already loaded - looking at June, Birmingham has 3 x daily A320 and 3 x daily Aer Arann flights.

Great news for Aer Arann, they must be finally making some good money now.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6363 posts, RR: 14
Reply 114, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 113):
Manchester is 3 x daily from Dublin with A320s at the moment, looking at June. I wonder what the aircraft will do instead?

It seems Aer Lingus is remaining at 3 x daily so Manchester will become 5 x daily overall, turning up the pressure on Ryanair I think.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 115, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13594 times:

With plans to double passenger numbers over the next 5 years, it would seem that imminent arrivals will augment, rather than replace much of the current fleet, although the RTE story mentions the 42s as being replaced by the new -600s. Unless RE plan more orders they will have to keep much of the existing fleet if they really do intend to "double" passenger numbers. It would seem that, at least some of the current fleet will stay, some have had new interiors. Wy bother if they were only staying in the felt for a number of months?


Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlinetonymctigue From Ireland, joined Feb 2006, 1956 posts, RR: 9
Reply 116, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13089 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Another small but welcome boost to SNN's outlook for 2013

'Ryanair increases Sun flights this summer from Shannon'

http://www.shannonairport.com/gns/ab...ghts_this_summer_from_Shannon.aspx

It is good on two fronts. 1) It is extra capacity which hopefully means addittional passengers and 2) It is not FR opening a parallel route to someone else. Hopefully is is not the start of a slippery slope of over dependence on FR. I am by all means support growth at SNN including growth by FR but in no way do I want to see a nothing but FR to the exclusion of everyone else situation like what existed a number of years ago.



Flown With EI,FR,RE,UA,CO,AA,WS,CX,QF,JQ: Airports SNN,GWY,ORK,DUB,NOC,LHR,STN,BOS,EWR,JFK,ORD,BOI,SEA,MCI,LHR,LYS,CDG,H
User currently offlinebx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 117, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13014 times:

It has just been announced on Today FM that FR have been told by the EU that they will not get permission to take over EI. MOL has said they will appeal the decision to the ECJ

User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12964 times:

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...410615-5218-511a-363c-3a7513934076

Confirmed. And a huge sigh of relief for everyone.

But this is not the last we will hear of this.

Quotes from FR:
"Ryanair’s said in a statement that it had met every competition concern raised in the EU’s statement of objections"

"Given that the EU Commission recently approved IAG’s acquisition of BMI at London-Heathrow on the basis of three year commitments, the EU’s claim that it could not be satisfied of IAG’s and Flybe’s commitments to these Irish routes after three years is another example of the EU holding Ryanair to a much higher standard than any other EU airline,"

"we were not going to get a fair hearing and were going to be prohibited regardless of competition rules,"

"It said that it has instructed its lawyers to appeal any prohibition decision to the European Courts."


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12926 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/rya...ir-lose-aer-lingus-792571-Feb2013/

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...land-worried-about-heathrow-slots/

"Leo Varadkar said what is being put together with Flybe is only for three years.
He said the fact that Ryanair has to give Flybe ''a gift'' of €100m to make it a competitor raises questions.
The Minister said the Government does not support the Ryanair bid for Aer Lingus because it thinks it would affect connectivity negatively.This is because IAG will be given the Heathrow slots"

Similar to the thoughts of most posters here.


User currently offlinePhen From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12881 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 118):
"It said that it has instructed its lawyers to appeal any prohibition decision to the European Courts."

So again this saga has effectively just been paused only to return soon for yet another round. How many more times can this cycle run?


User currently offlineEI564 From Ireland, joined May 2007, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12842 times:

Quoting Phen (Reply 120):
So again this saga has effectively just been paused only to return soon for yet another round. How many more times can this cycle run?

The European Court of Justice is not going to over-ride the decision. If even people on the street can see that Ryanair's bid made no sense, I can't see the ECJ thinking the Commission made such a bad job that they'd have to over-rule the verdict.

Mueller said last week that Ryanair is a law firm with a side interest in aviation and Ryanair will continue to prove it by taking every opportunity to have their day in court. If Ryanair want to waste more of their money, let them. Hopefully Aer Lingus can let the Commission do most of the arguing in the ECJ, save them some money.

The interesting thing now is to see what the UK Competition people do.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 122, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12839 times:

Quoting Phen (Reply 120):
So again this saga has effectively just been paused only to return soon for yet another round. How many more times can this cycle run?

Yes but I doubt it will be overturned. The people with the power know the game FR are playing. Good news for Irish aviation. I would have been surprised if they didnt appeal.


User currently offlinePhen From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12828 times:

Quoting EI564 (Reply 121):
The European Court of Justice is not going to over-ride the decision.
Quoting OA260 (Reply 122):

Yes but I doubt it will be overturned.

Let's hope so. With any luck EY will come and take the government's stake now.


User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 124, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12801 times:

I am so relieved by today's news as are so many of my friends employed by EI.

I don't doubt that this is not the end of it however I do feel Aer Lingus now have an opportunity to align itself elsewhere. A small window would appear to be open now for them to team up with someone (EY and UA) in order to make any future attempt by O'Dreary next to impossible!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 125, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12703 times:

Quoting EI564 (Reply 121):

While I beileve the decision is the right one, this appeal will not be about the decision per-se, rather about how the decision is reached. It is quite likely the the lawyere will find a few areas to argue over and it is these points that will be brought to the ECJ.

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/H...410615-5218-511a-363c-3a7513934076

So FR reckons they were hard-done by, Im not so sure
BA's take-over of BD still resulted in BA acquiring less than 50% of all LHR slots. Thats still less than half of one airport (of the half a dozen or so that reasonibly serve the LON region, LHR, LGW, STN, LTN, SEN) in a country that has at least 4 major airprts in other citites, MAN, BHX, GLA, EDI and numerous secondary airports, LPL, LBA, DSA, PIK, SOU, etc. easyJet and KLM are very large and established compeditiors in the UK market, Jet2 have an increasing presence, not to mention Ryanair themselves and ignoring the likes of Monarch, Thomson and Thomas Cook. Furthermore there is a high-speed train connection between LON and Brussels, Paris and Germany. To compare a minority of this market to a small, truly island nation on the peripheries of Europe is a non-sense, forgetting the the FR/EI deal would give them a monopoly of 82% of all traffic out of Ireland, its a whole different ball game.

The sale of EI operations at LHR to BA probably requires a competition enquiry of its own and may require some remedy slots to be divested - just like the BA purchase of BD required EDI and ABZ remedies.

BE needed a massive incentive - clearly few, if any, airlines are going to take on FR in the irish market on truly commerical terms. 150 million just to complell ana irline to oeprate 9 A320s for 3 years. Shows how distorted the FR bid truly makes the Irish market. To compre EI made somthing in the region of 60 million Euro profit this year, yet BE are expecting to require a similar amount just to break-even on a network a fraction the size of the current short-haul network.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 126, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12586 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 118):
Confirmed. And a huge sigh of relief for everyone.

Absolutely!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 122):
The people with the power know the game FR are playing

Yes, indeed; I wonder if the ECJ can impose a fine on FR for vexatious or time-wasting legal action; the thing is, the strategy seems to be to hold EI up, because the longer this goes on, the longer EI suffers from uncertainty. EY has invested in AB and is about to invest in 9W (Jet of India) .... yet, it's EI shareholding is still small.

I guess the next major landmark will be the British OFT's investigation of FR's stake in Aer Lingus; would be very interesting to see what happens if the OFT rules against FR.


User currently offlinedstc47 From Ireland, joined Sep 1999, 1485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 127, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12648 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 118):
And a huge sigh of relief for everyone.

But this is not the last we will hear of this.

Amen.
One wishes that Ryanair would use their talents otherwise.

This one may run as long as the Shannon stopover debate.

P.S. Rather amusing "Pope MOL" Ryanair advert in the Telegraph today, advertising Rome (where else?).


User currently onlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12605 times:

The amount of people predicting that FR will now kill EI by price dumping is hilarious. They've tried, they've failed. EI are at this stage pushing FR off routes with higher ticket prices and turboprops because of the growing aversion to flying with FR.

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 129, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12594 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 128):
EI are at this stage pushing FR off routes with higher ticket prices and turboprops because of the growing aversion to flying with FR.

Really? Do you have any information to back any of that up? Just out of curiosity...

I've often found the fares on both airlines are either substantially similar once you factor in all the costs, or vastly different - with EI undercutting Ryanair sometimes and Ryanair undercutting EI sometimes.

I'm curious about EI pushing FR off routes though? Which ones?



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently onlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12584 times:

EI often are cheaper, just for some reason not in the public's perception. I haven't flown FR in three years but I still check prices to make sure I'm not paying a ridiculous premium for EI - and its often cheaper.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 129):
I'm curious about EI pushing FR off routes though? Which ones?

ABZ comes to mind straight away. Although FR insist that was down to charges, but "charges" still = "we can't make it make money".


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 131, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12578 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 128):
The amount of people predicting that FR will now kill EI by price dumping is hilarious. They've tried, they've failed. EI are at this stage pushing FR off routes with higher ticket prices and turboprops because of the growing aversion to flying with FR.

You know I can totally understand where you are coming from . FR thought it would be able to down EI by their years of tricks but it all seems to have backfired on them. If anything I see EI becoming more stronger and with the new EIR routes and agreement extension this will further pressure FR. As I have said before FR are not very cheap anymore and more people are waking upto this fact.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 132, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12545 times:

Routes where FR have had difficulty competing include Aberdeen, Stockholm and Prague. EI remain decidedly larger on Brussels, Paris, Frankfurt, Madrid, Glasgow, and a few others.

Of course FR have their strengths too like Vilnius, Riga etc.

Either way, it's a good contest, and I hope it stays that way!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 133, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12537 times:

I think it is down to the load factor level FR needs to make money with a 738. That's about as closely held a commercial secret as the Coke formula (and of course, it varies from route to route). But if you have 50 pax, you're going to make money with an ATR, but you cannot with a 738 ... certainly not with FR's fares. So, what do you do? Either (a) pull off the route, or (b) stay on and get murdered. The EIR project is a major thorn in FR's side and you can be pretty darn sure that if FR were allowed to get its hands on EI, that would be the first thing out the window.

In my experience - and I've made this comparison on many flights I've taken, there's not a massive difference in price between the two; sometimes EIR is cheaper and sometimes FR, but really, EIR would need to be a hell of a lot more expensive than FR before I'd fly them (I haven't flown FR in a good while).

I could see EIR pushing FR off other routes as well, such as DUB-BRS, for example.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 134, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11960 times:

I wonder how this will be received ?

Aer Lingus has told unions it is halting payment of all wage increases, including increments, until the long-running dispute over the massive deficit in its pension fund is resolved.

The airline was due to resume paying increments in April following a three-year pay freeze.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0213/367...t-increments-over-pension-deficit/


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11856 times:

Well it's official - AA and US are to merge. I wonder what impact this will have on Irish operations over the medium term (PHL-SNN, PHL-DUB, CLT-DUB, ORD-DUB, JFK-DUB)...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...-11e2-95e4-6148e45d7adb_story.html



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineJamie2k9 From Ireland, joined Jan 2012, 224 posts, RR: 2
Reply 136, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11870 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 135):

CLT-DUB is currently on very thin ice, its proform or get axed. 2013 is the last chance, season has being cut again this summer slightly.

PHL,JFK,ORD-DUB no affect and PHL-SNN can't see anything happening, will be given a season or two and if not making a profit be axed.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 137, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11727 times:

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 135):
Well it's official - AA and US are to merge. I wonder what impact this will have on Irish operations over the medium term (PHL-SNN, PHL-DUB, CLT-DUB, ORD-DUB, JFK-DUB)...

Dont think it will be a huge change in terms of routes. Just we wont see the US Airways livery anymore.


User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 138, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11552 times:

FR is to increase frequency on STN-NOC to 2x daily on Fridays and Sundays for the summer season.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=315



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19245 posts, RR: 52
Reply 139, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 11520 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 133):
I think it is down to the load factor level FR needs to make money with a 738.

It is easy to calculate an airline's breakeven load factor (BELF): in its simplest form, it is CASM/yield, where CASM is total expenses / ASMs, i.e. output, and yield is total revenue / RPMs, i.e. traffic or sold output. But for Ryanair you need not do this, for they provide the BELFs within their annual report: in 2012, it was 70% (i.e., it earned profit on average after the 137th seat was sold); 72% in 2011, 73% in 2010, and 79% in 2009. Of course, these are system-wide BELFs, and the decline in BELFs is primarily because of increasing average one-way fares (see below). You can then relate BELFs to achieved load factors (ALFs, i.e. traffic / output, for example RPMs / ASMs), which for those years were 82% in 2012 (i.e., an average of 155 passengers), 83% in 2011, 82% in 2010, and 81% in 2009. The more ALF exceeds BELF, obviously the more profit is achieved, and vice-versa.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 131):
FR are not very cheap anymore and more people are waking upto this fact.

You need to consider average one-way fares including ancillaries:

2012: €4,390m total revenue (seat and ancillaries) / 75.8m passengers = €57.91
2011: €3,629.5m / 72.1m = €50.33
2010: €2,988.1m / 66.5m = €44.93

While the average one-way fare has clearly increased in recent years, partially to help counteract far higher fuel costs and to offset longer average sectors but also because of increasing maturity, I don't see how an average one-way fare of less than €58 for a 770-mile average sector (in 2012) is "not very cheap".

[Edited 2013-02-14 06:13:09]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 140, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11442 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 139):
You need to consider average one-way fares including ancillaries:

2012: €4,390m total revenue (seat and ancillaries) / 75.8m passengers = €57.91
2011: €3,629.5m / 72.1m = €50.33
2010: €2,988.1m / 66.5m = €44.93

Nice comparison.....

I think the EI results stated average revenue per pax of E98.
Would be interesting to see the same figure for CityJet, BA, EZ


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 141, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11422 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 139):
You need to consider average one-way fares including ancillaries:

2012: €4,390m total revenue (seat and ancillaries) / 75.8m passengers = €57.91
2011: €3,629.5m / 72.1m = €50.33
2010: €2,988.1m / 66.5m = €44.93

Very interesting information - you always post some good stuff with facts to back it up. Always enjoy it so keep it coming  



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19245 posts, RR: 52
Reply 142, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11418 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 140):
I think the EI results stated average revenue per pax of E98.
Would be interesting to see the same figure for CityJet, BA, EZ

You could do it for all of them BUT it wouldn't be fair for BA or EI given they have long-haul services and premium passengers. And don't forget that they often all target slightly different segments or sub-segments with differing willingness/ability to pay.

Of course, EI is overwhelmingly short-haul, but it still wouldn't be completely fair. However, EI helpfully - and very unusually - breaks its performance by both long-haul and short-haul, including average fares. These can be on page 118 in its 2011 annual report (its latest full-year report). For EI's short-haul routes:

2012: not yet available
2011: €90.80
2010: €85.90
2009: €77.10 (added to show fare tend)

Note that EI's average sector length was an average of around 650 miles over those 3 years, so a good 100+ less than Ryanair's.

I provide the figures for the most recent 3 years for WX and EZY. Note that there are differences in average sector lengths which would absolutely need to be considered, but it's fine for an overall fare comparison.

WX:

2012: not yet available
2011: €316m / 2,08m = €151
2010: €259m / 2.3m = €111
2009: €245m / 2.1m = €114

EZY (note: it's in GBP):

2012: £3,854.0m / 58.4m = £65.99 (average exchange rate roughly 1.22, so around €80.51)
2011: £3,452.0m / 54.5m = £63.34 (average exchange rate roughly 1.15, so around €72.84)
2010: £2,973.1 / 48.8m = £60.92 (average GBP-EUR exchange rate roughly 1.15, so around €70.10)

Note that I didn't do BA simply because it has so many long-haul flights and a lot of premium traffic and that the results wouldn't be comparable.

Like with FR, EI, WX, and EZY's average one-way fares have all been growing year-on-year albeit at different rates. Differences in average sector length should be applied for greater fairness (it should be distance-weighted really) but it's OK for a general comparison.

[Edited 2013-02-14 07:50:17]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 2984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 143, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11345 times:

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 115):
With plans to double passenger numbers over the next 5 years, it would seem that imminent arrivals will augment, rather than replace much of the current fleet, although the RTE story mentions the 42s as being replaced by the new -600s. Unless RE plan more orders they will have to keep much of the existing fleet if they really do intend to "double" passenger numbers. It would seem that, at least some of the current fleet will stay, some have had new interiors. Wy bother if they were only staying in the felt for a number of months?

From the horse's mouth - the A72s and AT4s are to be replaced by the A76 deliveries:
http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinfor...sfromireland/regionalfleetrenewal/

Maybe by increasing passenger numbers RE are going to concentrate on higher load factors? Many of the RE flights I've been on were under 50% full.

--

Ryanair to move its Irish operations offices from Dublin Airport to Airside Business Park, Swords:
http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryanair-buys-new-dublin-offices

Does this mean the entire HQ is being relocated? The article doesn't make it that clear.

[Edited 2013-02-14 09:15:51]


Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 144, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11301 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 143):
Does this mean the entire HQ is being relocated? The article doesn't make it that clear.

Funny how they announce it now. I heard about this 10 days ago. I wonder were they hoping to make the announcement in a different light?



Thanks for the figures on EZ and WX Pe@rson.

I agree that direct comparisons are not perfect but interesting to be able to see the upward trend in airfares.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 145, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11264 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 144):
Funny how they announce it now. I heard about this 10 days ago. I wonder were they hoping to make the announcement in a different light?

This has been in the pipeline for ages. It was actually reported on line a few months ago, but didnt receive much attention.

I'm sure it was indeed originally planned as a consolidated FR/EI premises.... not how "50% of the building will be rented out to other blue chip companies".



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently onlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

FR have had staff in other locations beyond the airport for an age - seem to remember some on Conyngham Road for instance? Think they needed a bigger building regardless.

User currently offlinebx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 147, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11190 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 146):

That was Ryanair Direct. This was a call centre which had a lo-call number and offered the cheapest Ryanair fares. I remember working in a travel agency in the mid1990s and if a customer had a query about Ryanair flights, travel agents couldn't use the lo-call number but had to call a premium rate number, so the unofficial policy was to book with EI unless someone specifically asked for FR. They were a nightmare to deal with.

They wanted to cut out travel agents, so set up Ryanair Direct in the old Sullivan Bluth studios on Conyngham Road. If memory serves correctly, this was closed down with the advent of widespread Internet usage. For our younger readers this was in the era before Internet.


User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 148, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11067 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting bx737 (Reply 147):
If memory serves correctly,................... this was in the era before Internet.

Oh the horror!!!!


User currently offlinebx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 149, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11046 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 148):

I know, no Internet.....we had to go to the Aviation Society of Ireland meetings once a month in Wynns hotel to keep up to speed with aviation news in Ireland. That's where I first met Kaitak.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 150, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11003 times:

Quoting bx737 (Reply 149):
I know, no Internet.....we had to go to the Aviation Society of Ireland meetings once a month in Wynns hotel to keep up to speed with aviation news in Ireland. That's where I first met Kaitak.

I remember it well - and Shell House in Hatch Street, before that! (I think we even had a meeting in Liberty Hall at one stage!) It was great to catch up with everyone and as you say, keep up with developments in Irish aviation; I remember that's where I first heard Aer Lingus was getting 330s!

We used to have great speakers as well; one was a KLM captain who lived in Dublin, a 744 t/captain. There was EI's fleet manager at the time and one of his colleagues ... oh what's this his name was ... Alan something. Went to Australia and no one ever heard from him again   (No, seriously, it was Alan Joyce!)

It's a real pity the ASI folded; I really enjoyed being part of it.


User currently offlineNibog From Ireland, joined Apr 2009, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 151, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10943 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 150):
It's a real pity the ASI folded; I really enjoyed being part of it.

Never knew that !!,and I was a member for years,in fact i still have copies of Aviation Ireland,I have just pulled one out and see a photo of EI-JFK of "Vacations Ireland" on departure from SNN to BFS!!!!.I got to know the treasurer as well,in fact had him on board the USS JFK when she visited!!!!. It was a great monthly read!!!!


User currently offlinebx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 152, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10995 times:

Unfortunately ASI has fallen by the wayside, I have quite a number of their mags, including a those with articles written by me. They had a great magazine for the 60th anniversary of EI and they did a great article for FR on their 10th anniversary. This coincided with their introduction of the Boeing 737-200 which replaced the 1-11s, but that is another days chat

User currently offlineDavecFlyer From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10773 times:

Folks,

Does anyone have an address or number for a complaints department at Aer Lingus? The website doesn't list one...

I've just been booted out of Gold Circle over a mistake that they made and refuse to acknowledge. Absolutely shocking customer service and I really need someone to listen to my case.

DaveC



ei,sf,fr,amm,cc,wx,bd,ba,ok,ua,ma,ay,re,cx,qf,fj,as,ac,az,adh,fua,ib,aww,km,aa,vs,nw,skb,cli,ne,kl,sa,ek,fi,lh,sn,af,qi,
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 57
Reply 154, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10662 times:

DaveC,

As they constantly forget to add my points (despite my doing what I'm supposed to to have points automatically logged), I always directly contact Gold Circle and to be honest, they're usually very quick in responding and resolving any issues I have.

I always send to these two email addressed just to be safe:
goldcircle@aerlingus.com,
Goldcircle@aerlingusgoldcircleclub.com

Good luck!



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineDavecFlyer From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 155, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10547 times:

Toulouse - thanks - been through them already and to no avail.

I queried my balance in December and was told 1,800 with a year end of end -Feb 2013.

I then made it my business to get 600 points before end February to maintain status (which I did). However, it now turns out that they gave me the wrong balance back then and I'm now still short. I've pointed out that it was their error and I asked them in good faith but they won't budge and I lose my Gold Circle status now next week.

Been through 4 different people and an escalation but they won't move on this and won't admit that they made a mistake.



ei,sf,fr,amm,cc,wx,bd,ba,ok,ua,ma,ay,re,cx,qf,fj,as,ac,az,adh,fua,ib,aww,km,aa,vs,nw,skb,cli,ne,kl,sa,ek,fi,lh,sn,af,qi,
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2759 posts, RR: 57
Reply 156, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10533 times:

Wow Dave,

I'm a huge supporter of EI but that is awful customer service. I know this may be an obvious question, but did you talk to them by phone when you queried your balance or do it by email (would be great if it were by email as you have written evidence of their error).

Also, I know it's a bit of a painstaking task, but are you sure you were awarded all your points. I go through all my bookings every few months, and it's no exaggeration when I say I discover at a significant number of flights I booked in eligible class which were never added on. When I last queried my balance with them, also towards the end of 2012, I had a total just around 6000 points and saying of that number I'd only accrued some 1000 of them in the past year. After going though all my tickets, they added all the points they hadn't logged, and this brought my balance to over 8000 points! So I was also close to losing status as well had I not done all that.

I'm really sorry to hear about this anyway, and hope you can get it resolved.



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineDavecFlyer From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 157, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 10497 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 156):
I'm a huge supporter of EI but that is awful customer service. I know this may be an obvious question, but did you talk to them by phone when you queried your balance or do it by email (would be great if it were by email as you have written evidence of their error).

That is the galling thing - I have it on email and signed and everything by one particular person who now won't acknowledge the mistake. Just keeps responding with the same boilerplate answer...

Calling is a nightmare as you regularly have to wait on hold for upwards of 30 minutes to get through.

Yeah - checked through all the flights - and right now I am a measly 100 points short when I thought I was at the level required.

Btw - another trick I've found out this past week is that EIR flights cannot be added via the online form as you don't receive the ticket number as part of your booking email.

The whole GC thing really needs to be sorted out.

Anyway, don't want to hijack the thread - I'll fight this one onwards.



ei,sf,fr,amm,cc,wx,bd,ba,ok,ua,ma,ay,re,cx,qf,fj,as,ac,az,adh,fua,ib,aww,km,aa,vs,nw,skb,cli,ne,kl,sa,ek,fi,lh,sn,af,qi,
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 158, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10097 times:

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 154):
As they constantly forget to add my points (despite my doing what I'm supposed to to have points automatically logged), I always directly contact Gold Circle and to be honest, they're usually very quick in responding and resolving any issues I have.

Yes, they tend to be okay generally for simply things.

What I don't get is that this far into having the Plus Fares, you still need to claim all your Plus Fare GC points manually online. It sounds like their IT systems are still lacking very much in certain customer facing areas.

Another example is if you have a Corporate login. You're supposed to get a statement each month of a list of all the flights and how much your spend was via e-mail in an Excel spreadsheet. At my previous employment we went six months without an update despite repeated requests (and no e-mail reply to those repeated requests either).

Eventually we got it (after saying out CFO was demanding it) and were told that due to changes in staffing they were having resource issues in producing the reports, along with apologies of course. Clearly they are being done manually and not automatically, which in this day and age you'd think would be easy.

What should be published, but isn't, is how many points you earn on BA and QF and so on. I was looking at whether I'd put my points in BA on EI for some flights via LHR to the US, and called Gold Circle and she read them off a spreadsheet they have internally which seems to be divided by route and class. I would have received 400 odd points for LHR-IAD in World Traveller plus on EI, so I put them into the BA programme instead as the redemption opportunities are a lot more.

My view at this stage is that Aer Lingus should just revamp Gold Circle to be an extension of the IAG Avios programme with BA and IB, so you can earn and burn on the three airlines plus EIs other partners. I guess it's not possible though thanks to EI having left oneworld.

Quoting DavecFlyer (Reply 157):
Anyway, don't want to hijack the thread - I'll fight this one onwards.

Update us when you hear - considering they gave GC access to loads of BMI Blue card holders and since you're clearly a regular flyer, you'd think with a 100 point discrepancy that they'd comp you over the line. I have a feeling that a lot of the people who work in GC have been there since they were Government employed, as they certainly have that mentality at times!

Meanwhile, I had the pleasure of flying BA DUB-LHR in Club Europe the other night. Despite the slightly unfortunate BMI seating (they still use the old BMI aircraft on the route), the food was great, the champagne was delicious and the cabin service was immaculate. The food was a salad with beetroot, goats cheese, peppers, and so on and a chocolate mousse for dessert. Load was 7 out of 16 in Club.

There was a one hour 40 minute delay though as the aircraft had gone tech and not one announcement at the gate from the Servisair people. The DAA lounge staff kept everyone well appraised until it closed at 2000 though. Lots of irate people unfortunately. When we got to LHR we were on a remote stand and bussed to T1 - which made some people actually yell at the poor bus driver as it was the last straw for them! Also, the DAA lounge was packed - about 7/8ths full - and when the flight before ours left, half the people in the lounge were BA frequent flyers - and the half remaining were on my flight. I'd love to know how many people have switched from Aer Lingus.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 159, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10086 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 158):
What I don't get is that this far into having the Plus Fares, you still need to claim all your Plus Fare GC points manually online. It sounds like their IT systems are still lacking very much in certain customer facing areas.

Indeed Ive close to given up their IT and back up customer service with regards to these issues are terrible. Its such a shame as at the airport itself and EI ground/lounge staff do all they can to accomodate and go the extra mile in my experiences.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 158):
you'd think with a 100 point discrepancy that they'd comp you over the line.

Indeed it seems they try to shed the number of people renewing rather than encourage it.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 158):
There was a one hour 40 minute delay though as the aircraft had gone tech and not one announcement at the gate from the Servisair people. The DAA lounge staff kept everyone well appraised until it closed at 2000 though. Lots of irate people unfortunately.

Servisair are a nightmare when it comes to knowing how to operate the BA product at DUB. They have not got a clue. Standing watching them at the gate with bits of paper crossed out old info and not knowing the current proceedures is quite amusing if not a bit worrying. Do they not have staff training! The tech issues and delays still haunt DUB. BHD on the other hand have it alot more on par with what the experience should be.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19245 posts, RR: 52
Reply 160, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 10085 times:

Quoting DavecFlyer (Reply 157):
one particular person who now won't acknowledge the mistake.

This bit sounds like Dave Carroll's experience with his guitar on UA. And we all know what did.   I'll look forward to your creation going viral. 



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 161, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10018 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 159):
Its such a shame as at the airport itself and EI ground/lounge staff do all they can to accomodate and go the extra mile in my experiences.

They do indeed, they're all exceptional.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 159):

Indeed it seems they try to shed the number of people renewing rather than encourage it.

Sure looks like it!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 159):
Servisair are a nightmare when it comes to knowing how to operate the BA product at DUB. They have not got a clue. Standing watching them at the gate with bits of paper crossed out old info and not knowing the current proceedures is quite amusing if not a bit worrying

I know - they didn't pre-board or anything. The microphone cut out part way through the announcement, so she just looked at it, put it down and it was then a free for all. Oh well. They made up for it on board!

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 160):
This bit sounds like Dave Carroll's experience with his guitar on UA. And we all know what did. I'll look forward to your creation going viral

Now that would be fun to see  



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineirishbean From Ireland, joined Jun 2009, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 162, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

Re the serviceair staff at Dublin , I have used BA 4 times over last 3 months, from Dublin connecting onto a first class ticket in LHR, the staff are not just completely useless, but very rude. They have no idea that you can connect bags from one BA flight to another, even on 2 tickets, and are so rude about it. No idea of allowances fro gold customers, Last time I checked in; the same check in girl said 'you, I remember you, I had you a few weeks ago causing issues as well' like what???? I'm a first class, gold guest list BA customer, and would like my bag checked on to my final BA destination. Unbelievable! I have contacted BA about ti a few times, and suggest anyone else what similar issues do the same, as BA did appear to be 'concerned' about Dublin.

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4656 posts, RR: 23
Reply 163, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9590 times:

Quoting irishbean (Reply 162):
Last time I checked in; the same check in girl said 'you, I remember you, I had you a few weeks ago causing issues as well' like what????

Oh my god, that's deplorable!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!