AirCanada787 From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13314 times:
Seems there people didn't get the memo about not smoking on flights anymore and the fact that you have to listen to the instructions of the crew.
Last night Sunwing flight 454 from Halifax to Dominican Republic diverted to Bermuda after three passengers onboard refused to stop smoking. Upon landing the three who appeared to be a mother and father with a son were arrested by police. Their passports have been seized by the police and they have been order to not leave the island. The other passengers and crew were put up in a hotel over night and were expected to continue to their destination today.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 715 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13290 times:
Looks like the flight is about to land at PUJ. Even if there weren't rules and guidelines, provided that somebody actually did ask them to, wouldn't you think a decent person would decide not to smoke if somebody says it would bother them?
This doesn't seem to fit in with the notion that Canadians are all friendly and nice people! And I am of Canadian descent so I don;t mean that dorrogatorily (if it can be taken that way).
Md88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1287 posts, RR: 22 Reply 3, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 13030 times:
The part that makes me laugh is that they were off loaded in Bermuda. Once the legal issue is resolved, they have to buy walk-up tickets out of there. Fitting.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21482 posts, RR: 24 Reply 4, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12971 times:
Quoting Md88Captain (Reply 3): The part that makes me laugh is that they were off loaded in Bermuda. Once the legal issue is resolved, they have to buy walk-up tickets out of there. Fitting.
Assuming they return to YHZ, the lowest current one way fare BDA-YHZ is around $260 including taxes/fees.
rampbro From Canada, joined Nov 2012, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12898 times:
I laughed so hard when I read this. It sounds like an episode of Trailer Park Boys, a show which is funny for many because of how closely it mimics people they know. I can well imagine how blue the air was in that aircraft at the height of the argument.
Of course, it is a major hassle for any of the 150+ other people directly affected. They should take some consolation in the great travel story they now have in their back pocket!
AY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 503 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12854 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1): This doesn't seem to fit in with the notion that Canadians are all friendly and nice people! And I am of Canadian descent so I don;t mean that dorrogatorily (if it can be taken that way).
Don't feel bad about your comments. We have proportionally just as many angry and thoughtless people up here, as anywhere else in the world. Geographically, a large country, but only about 35 million population.
Times are indeed changing. I was born in 1949, and spent all but 6 years of my life here. The rest of the world's perception that things can and don't happen up here is purely a myth. The fact that Canadians are all friendly, nice people is indeed no more than a notion.
Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days. Don't get me wrong, still proud to hold a Canadian passport, but the fact is that boorish behaviour is just as alive and well here as anywhere else.
Cheers,
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
XEspecialist From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 27 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 12852 times:
The family may not even be Canadian. Many package holiday travelers get themselves to YHZ or YYZ first on their own as it is cheaper to get a package departing from there. The airports have walk up tour agencies in the ticketing lobbies. Canada is almost more of a melting pot than the United States.
Also, it appears the crew diverted because:
A) they were smoking in a lavatory
B) they wouldn't or couldn't tell the crew what they had done with their smoking materials
This is probably why they had to get a maintenance inspection as mentioned in the article. Many nooks and crannies in a 73G lavatory. Wouldn't want to end like AC in CVG.
macc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 972 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 12405 times:
When I flew out of DFW on thursday I was outside smoking and was talked to from 3 different people who all told me that they were on their first flights. One from Florida, one from Michigan and the third one from Oregon. I guess that family wasnt on a plane much before either. We all are used so much to the whole thing that we peobably just cant imagine how it must be for someone on his first trip. The 3 people made me remember some 20 years ago. But back then, there was still smoking on board...
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10887 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1): This doesn't seem to fit in with the notion that Canadians are all friendly and nice people! And I am of Canadian descent so I don;t mean that dorrogatorily (if it can be taken that way).
Just goes to show that we Canucks can be as big AHs as any other labelled group. Don't feel bad about it !
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6288 posts, RR: 23 Reply 11, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10241 times:
Quoting AirCanada787 (Thread starter): Seems there people didn't get the memo about not smoking on flights anymore and the fact that you have to listen to the instructions of the crew.
Quoting autothrust (Reply 10): It amazes me how stupid and egoistic some people can be.
It's actually pretty common, lamentably. Quite regularly police are called to flights arriving at STN because of smokers on board.
yowviewer From Canada, joined Jun 2010, 45 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10041 times:
Can someone please tell me that these 3 AH's will not be fingerprinted, photographed, and then released to a five-star resort waiting for their next court appearance in 5 days ? Keep them locked up, and throw away the keys ! I used to be one of those tranquil Canadians until the last ten years or so, but now it's "Cool" to break the law and not much of a penalty to go with it.
awacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1417 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9169 times:
I'm all for blacklisting them from flying for a certain amount of time should they do stuff like this!
JAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3321 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8696 times:
Air travel attracts many types of people, unfortunately some are either too naive to know better or they just intentionally do something they know is wrong and hope they don't get caught. It would not surprise me if these people have never flown on an airliner at all or in the last 20 years. People from all walks of life fly, the rich, the poor, and the very inexperienced. Hearing the stories from pilots who have done Hajj charters nothing seems impossible. I've heard of passengers trying to cook at their seats, using galley elevators as squat toilets, and even trying to bring live animals onto the plane.
[Edited 2013-02-03 06:56:29]
Supported the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
braynfeeble From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 60 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8412 times:
I feel sorry for Sunwing Airlines having to absorb costs on account of stupidity. Of course they'll probably get off scott free due to our lame society.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6302 times:
Quoting braynfeeble (Reply 17): I feel sorry for Sunwing Airlines having to absorb costs on account of stupidity. Of course they'll probably get off scott free due to our lame society.
I doubt it. Since the offense occurred in international airspace on a Canadian-registered a/c, they'll likely be processed through the Canadian legal system, which takes a dim view of this type of behaviour. Likely a hefty fine, probably mandatory couselling, although jail time is not out of the question - they did cause a fire hazard on the flight, after all. After that, Sunwing will almost certainly pursue in civil court for landing charges, fuel, and any other related expense.
This will turn out to be one expensive smoke. Possibly a good incentive to give it up.
Revo1059 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4030 times:
They should never be allowed to fly again....and no I don't think thats too harsh. Flying is a privlidge, not a right and if someone is too stupid to play by the rules then find another way to travel. This wasn't some questionable (as some here have) rule about splitting hairs on what should be turned on or off for landing or some FA judgement call that could be argued, this is a basic rule that has been in place for a long time....NO SMOKING.....damn.....
gabrielchew From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 2512 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3663 times:
If they were on their first flights (and were unaware of the smoking ban), why light up in the lav rather than in the comfort of their seats? Sounds like they knew what they were doing and throught they could get away with it.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21482 posts, RR: 24 Reply 20, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3582 times:
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17): Quoting braynfeeble (Reply 17):
I feel sorry for Sunwing Airlines having to absorb costs on account of stupidity. Of course they'll probably get off scott free due to our lame society.
I doubt it. Since the offense occurred in international airspace on a Canadian-registered a/c, they'll likely be processed through the Canadian legal system, which takes a dim view of this type of behaviour.
Don't think so. They're subject to the legal system of the location where the flight diverts to, assuming they're arrested and charged with something under the laws of that country (territory in this case since Bermuda is a British colony).
Many flights have diverted to Canada in similar circircumstances (unruly passengers etc.) and they're always subject to the Canadian legal system. I doubt smoking in a lavatory on an aircraft is an extraditable offense.
fiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 288 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3267 times:
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11): It's actually pretty common, lamentably. Quite regularly police are called to flights arriving at STN because of smokers on board.
I have found that Eastern Europeans particularly seem to have smoking so intrenched in their everyday lives that they think it is normal behaviour to light up anywhere without reference to their surroundings. Actually, a lot of other Europeans do it as well.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6288 posts, RR: 23 Reply 22, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3245 times:
Quoting fiscal (Reply 21):
I have found that Eastern Europeans particularly seem to have smoking so intrenched in their everyday lives that they think it is normal behaviour to light up anywhere without reference to their surroundings. Actually, a lot of other Europeans do it as well.
Happens a lot on Polish and Italian flights in particular, though that predominance is to a certain extent also explained by the number of routes from those countries flown.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3857 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20): Don't think so. They're subject to the legal system of the location where the flight diverts to, assuming they're arrested and charged with something under the laws of that country (territory in this case since Bermuda is a British colony).
Many flights have diverted to Canada in similar circircumstances (unruly passengers etc.) and they're always subject to the Canadian legal system. I doubt smoking in a lavatory on an aircraft is an extraditable offense.
I think what will happen is that charges will be filed against them in Canada, to await their return.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2731 times:
Interestingly, Bermuda doesn't take kindly to people not following rules ... It may be a beautiful island, but they have little patience for tourists who step out of line ...
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 7 Reply 26, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2375 times:
Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 19): why light up in the lav rather than in the comfort of their seats? Sounds like they knew what they were doing and throught they could get away with it.
The article referenced in post #25 says they were smoking at their seats.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
"McWilliams estimates that the cost of diverting the flight could be as much as $50,000. He said those costs include:
Landing fees at Bermuda airport.
Flying a mechanic to Bermuda to examine the aircraft for defects (standard operating procedure for overweight planes.)
Cost to hire crew to search plane for cigarette butts to make sure they were extinguished.
Accommodations for passengers and crew overnight in Bermuda.
Accommodations for passengers scheduled to fly home from the Dominican Republic on the diverted plane.
McWilliams said since the plane had to land before its scheduled destination, it was overweight due to the unburned fuel on board."
"McWilliams estimates that the cost of diverting the flight could be as much as $50,000. He said those costs include:
Landing fees at Bermuda airport.
Flying a mechanic to Bermuda to examine the aircraft for defects (standard operating procedure for overweight planes.)
Cost to hire crew to search plane for cigarette butts to make sure they were extinguished.
Accommodations for passengers and crew overnight in Bermuda.
Accommodations for passengers scheduled to fly home from the Dominican Republic on the diverted plane.
McWilliams said since the plane had to land before its scheduled destination, it was overweight due to the unburned fuel on board."
Hopefully they have to pay for the diversion costs so that this event can be used as example which will deter such behaviours in the future.
The mind, like a parachute, functions only when open.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21482 posts, RR: 24 Reply 29, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2197 times:
Quoting AirCanada787 (Reply 28): Hopefully they have to pay for the diversion costs so that this event can be used as example which will deter such behaviours in the future.
An unruly AC passenger who forced a LHR-YYC 77W last August to divert to YEG was sentenced yesterday. In addition to a $4,000 fine and one year's probation, he was ordered to pay $15,200 restitution to AC to cover their costs. See this thread for details. Unruly AC Passenger LHR-YYC Sentenced (by Viscount724 Feb 4 2013 in Civil Aviation)
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13337 posts, RR: 64 Reply 30, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2079 times:
Quoting Md88Captain (Reply 3): The part that makes me laugh is that they were off loaded in Bermuda. Once the legal issue is resolved, they have to buy walk-up tickets out of there. Fitting.
Provided an airline is willing to carry them. I have heard about an unruly British passenger some years ago, who was dumped on the island of Madeira because he caused trouble while on his way to the Canaries. Apparently there was no airline willing to carry him, so, after a long search, he had to buy an expensive sea travel ticket on a cargo ship going to Portugal. From there he had to take the train and ferry back to the UK. From what I´ve read he lost his job as well, because the jounrney took much longer than his approved vacations.
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 7 Reply 31, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1876 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30): Portugal. From there he had to take the train and ferry back to the UK.
Well, at least the train ride was nice. I've done that route.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
Western727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 33, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1585 times:
Are there photos of the offenders somewhere online? Mug shots, perhaps?
brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3172 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1329 times:
Quoting XEspecialist (Reply 7): This is probably why they had to get a maintenance inspection as mentioned in the article. Many nooks and crannies in a 73G lavatory. Wouldn't want to end like AC in CVG.
The update mentions the reason that the aircraft was inspected was due to the overweight landing by regulation of all Canadian registered aircraft.
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 23):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
Don't think so. They're subject to the legal system of the location where the flight diverts to, assuming they're arrested and charged with something under the laws of that country (territory in this case since Bermuda is a British colony).
Many flights have diverted to Canada in similar circumstances (unruly passengers etc.) and they're always subject to the Canadian legal system. I doubt smoking in a lavatory on an aircraft is an extraditable offense.
I think what will happen is that charges will be filed against them in Canada, to await their return.
At least I hope so.
They are being held in Bermuda, and their passports and travel documents have been seized. That is to say they aren't going anywhere. Hope they enjoy being in Bermuda, they will have to stay there on a bond until their trial. They cannot travel and they have to stay there under the conditions of their bond and probably have no where they could go. I am not sure of the laws in Bermuda but people who are awaiting trial out side of Canada cannot enter Canada even if they are a Canadian citizen, until the matte has been disposed of.
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 31): Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
Portugal. From there he had to take the train and ferry back to the UK.
Well, at least the train ride was nice. I've done that route.
The Chunnel train is a neat experience to take as well. I assume that is what they used to train back to the UK.
tonyban From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1299 times:
Slightly off-topic but was just wandering if smoking in-flight is now a Worldwide ban or are there countries/airlines that still permit smoking on-board ?
YYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1275 times:
Quoting AirCanada787 (Reply 28): Hopefully they have to pay for the diversion costs so that this event can be used as example which will deter such behaviours in the future.
Quoting brilondon (Reply 35): They are being held in Bermuda, and their passports and travel documents have been seized. That is to say they aren't going anywhere. Hope they enjoy being in Bermuda, they will have to stay there on a bond until their trial. They cannot travel and they have to stay there under the conditions of their bond and probably have no where they could go. I am not sure of the laws in Bermuda but people who are awaiting trial out side of Canada cannot enter Canada even if they are a Canadian citizen, until the matte has been disposed of.
As they plead guilty to a lesser charge (disobeying lawful commands from the crew), upon payment of the fine they will be free to go.
While the fines were minor, the cost will add up... lawyer in Bermuda, accommodation and flight home. Also I would imagine that they will not be compensated for their package deal, that they have lost out on. And then the lawsuit in Canada (the conviction will make it hard for them to avoid liability).
Question is, will Sunwing follow through to actually sue, and to actually enforce the judgement (i.e., seize and sell their house, or other assets)?
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2147 posts, RR: 7 Reply 39, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 998 times:
Quoting brilondon (Reply 35): Hope they enjoy being in Bermuda, they will have to stay there on a bond until their trial. They cannot travel and they have to stay there under the conditions of their bond and probably have no where they could go.
And Bermuda isn't cheap!
Quoting brilondon (Reply 35): The Chunnel train is a neat experience to take as well. I assume that is what they used to train back to the UK.
It is! The Shinkansen is sweet, too!
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 37): upon payment of the fine they will be free to go.
Assuming they still have equity in their home.
Quoting tonystan (Reply 38): I can think of worse places to be chucked off a flight
Went there on my honeymoon (on a cruise). The place is idyllic.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16821 posts, RR: 57 Reply 40, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 943 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 1): Looks like the flight is about to land at PUJ. Even if there weren't rules and guidelines, provided that somebody actually did ask them to, wouldn't you think a decent person would decide not to smoke if somebody says it would bother them?
Or when told that the aircraft will land and they will be deplaned and arrested?
Quoting AY104 (Reply 6): Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days. Don't get me wrong, still proud to hold a Canadian passport, but the fact is that boorish behaviour is just as alive and well here as anywhere else.
The word "boorish" is as old as Shakespeare and is proof that boorish behavior is nothing new or more prevalent "these days." You just didn't hear about this sort of thing in the past. If this behavior was common, you'd never have heard about it.
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 37): While the fines were minor, the cost will add up... lawyer in Bermuda, accommodation and flight home. Also I would imagine that they will not be compensated for their package deal, that they have lost out on. And then the lawsuit in Canada (the conviction will make it hard for them to avoid liability).
Question is, will Sunwing follow through to actually sue, and to actually enforce the judgement (i.e., seize and sell their house, or other assets)?
I think they will. It's a lot of money and also, Sunwing has an interest in making an example of this family.
Brandane From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2013, 1 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 893 times:
Quoting AY104 (Reply 6): We have proportionally just as many angry and thoughtless people up here, as anywhere else in the world. Geographically, a large country, but only about 35 million population.
Times are indeed changing. I was born in 1949, and spent all but 6 years of my life here. The rest of the world's perception that things can and don't happen up here is purely a myth. The fact that Canadians are all friendly, nice people is indeed no more than a notion.
Society everywhere is all about behaving badly these days. Don't get me wrong, still proud to hold a Canadian passport, but the fact is that boorish behaviour is just as alive and well here as anywhere else.
It's nice to hear that these people are not exclusive to the UK! Although we do seem to have more than our fair share of them.
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