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QF To BER?  
User currently offlinedelta777jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1198 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8355 times:

I was wondering , with the current EK/QF Alliance and the fact that EK cannot fly to more destinations in Germany (EK urgently wants to fly to BER) could Qantas fly SYD/MEL - DXB - BER (TXL/SXF) vv. ! That would give EK direct access to Berlin via QF! Any thoughts ?


Fly easyJet
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFuling From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

I thought the same too. Not thinking frame numbers it would use, but an A332 from PER - DXB - BER would be alright wouldn't it?

User currently onlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8213 times:
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Quoting delta777jet (Thread starter):
(EK urgently wants to fly to BER) could Qantas fly SYD/MEL - DXB - BER (TXL/SXF) vv. ! That would give EK direct access to Berlin via QF! Any thoughts ?

Its been proffered before however i don't think EK could put their code on the DXB- TXL sector of a potential QF flight without route authority.

The big if - Were QF5/6 rotations retained and transferred lies around potential AB connectivity within Oneworld rather than EK ?

I would suggest that currently it would just add cost (Retain loses incurred of the FRA operation).


User currently onlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

DXB based carriers cant fly to BER as they have used up all of their entitled capacity to Germany. The same applies to AUH based ones too hence why you see Air Berlin operating TXL-AUH versus EY.

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8100 times:

I have attempted to find what changes there have been made to the Germany - Australia bilateral but without success. I have found references that state changes in an MOU but that they were not ratified and are not in force. Under the original bilateral agreement signed between the two countries the only access a designated carrier from Australia has in Germany is FRA. If someone has access to an in force later agreement, please could they post a link?

If the points of access for Australian carriers has not been changed then QF is limited to FRA. The original agreement does provide for routing via points in the Middle East, so SYD-DXB-FRA would be permissible. But there is no suggestion that QF could simply swap FRA for BER in that agreement (not surprising given the four-power status of Berlin at the time the agreement was signed.) Nor, in any of the statements to date, has QF indicated a willingness to introduce new routes to Europe in the short to medium term.

The other question is, if QF could not make money on the most attractive destination (in aviation terms) in Germany, how can they expect to make money operating services into what many Germans regard as a low-yield destination? EK might because of their lower cost base. Could QF do the same while still claiming to be an Australian carrier with flights originating in Australia? To benefit from a lower cost base they would have to operate out of DXB (or some other Asian port) but if they do that will they still be regarded as Australian by the German authorities?

Given opposition to EK increasing the number of destinations served, can we imagine the German authorities approving a back-door to QF?


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7671 times:

Better option: QF should have made an alliance with QR, which flies to TXL, instead of with EK. All-around it would have been a better deal anyways.

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7515 times:

[Out of the box idea]
If the Germany/Australia bilateral really does limit QF to FRA, and EK desperately wants to serve Berlin while being limited in the total number of gateways in Germany, then maybe they could stop serving FRA and start flying to BER instead, while letting QF connect FRA to DXB with increased frequencies?
[/Out of the box idea]

The above will never happen, of course, but it probably would be within the scope of the existing bilaterals. The problem is that EK are only interested in traffic on their own metal, and there is no way they'll leave FRA.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

Could QF operate Australia-DXB-FRA say twice daily, with EK switching it's authority from FRA to BER or another German port? (I'm assuming QF/EK can operate as a JSA in such a scenario)


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 7):
Could QF operate Australia-DXB-FRA say twice daily, with EK switching it's authority from FRA to BER or another German port? (I'm assuming QF/EK can operate as a JSA in such a scenario)

As mentioned previously, probably not within a QF/EK JSA. If you want to oeprate a route as a joint venture, both airlines must have traffic rights. If EK switches its authority to BER, than it cannot serve FRA (either with own metal or with a QF aircraft).


User currently offlinedelta777jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1198 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Well , EK used to put their Code on UL's flights fom SXF-DXZb-CMB in the early 2000's !


Fly easyJet
User currently offlinejsoprano From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 9):

They probably didn't fly to HAM at that time, so they were still within the 4 ports limit.

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 7):

Although hell will freeze over before EK gives up FRA for BER, I think this is not possible unless EY vacates FRA as well, as the 4 port limitation applies to all UAE carriers combined. This is why Etihad cannot fly to BER either, because they are stuck with the 4 ports that Emirates elected in the first place.


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 5):
QF should have made an alliance with QR, which flies to TXL, instead of with EK.

That assumes that BER is worth more than the current arrangement. For QF EK offers greater access not just to Europe but to the North and East African regions from a greater number of points in Australia. While QR serves MEL and PER, EK is able to serve SYD, MEL, BNE, PER and ADL, with additional room for expansion under the enhanced regional access programme. This gives far greater opportunity for code shares generating revenue for QF than an alliance with QR would.

I am sure that Alan Joyce and his team at QF would have looked at various alternatives but, with the information that they have and we might not, made the decision to go with EK as the best option.


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

In a press release issue today QF has announced that

Quote:
Qantas has also brought forward the end date for its loss-making Frankfurt services by six months to 15 April 2013.

Expansion is clearly focused on Asia with no plans of new routes in Europe being announced.

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...a-releases/feb-2013/5486/global/en


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 11):
That assumes that BER is worth more than the current arrangement. For QF EK offers greater access not just to Europe but to the North and East African regions from a greater number of points in Australia. While QR serves MEL and PER, EK is able to serve SYD, MEL, BNE, PER and ADL, with additional room for expansion under the enhanced regional access programme. This gives far greater opportunity for code shares generating revenue for QF than an alliance with QR would.

No, flying to TXL is only an extra benefit of what would have been a more cooperative arrangement in 1W. On the contrary, with the Australia-Qatar bilateral, QF could use its currently unsued frequencies to fly SYD-DOH and MEL-DOH, with QR flying DOH-PER and DOH-BNE. QR has a strong network in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East as well, including some points not flown to by EK. QF would also have been able to keep its close cooperation with BA, QR's sponsor in 1W.


User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 940 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 13):
No, flying to TXL is only an extra benefit of what would have been a more cooperative arrangement in 1W. On the contrary, with the Australia-Qatar bilateral, QF could use its currently unsued frequencies to fly SYD-DOH and MEL-DOH, with QR flying DOH-PER and DOH-BNE. QR has a strong network in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East as well, including some points not flown to by EK. QF would also have been able to keep its close cooperation with BA, QR's sponsor in 1W.

Now, now, that would just be the common sense approach now wouldnt it!!      
Asia it is for us at QF! Maybe it has something to do with AB?What a Mess;
AB .....Sponsered by BA to enter OneWorld, who then gets a majority of it bought by EY who is in no alliance, then AB starts a heavy codeshare deal with AF/KL (of which im a FF and loyal customer to SkyTeam) ... maybe its safer that QF doesnt fly into BER ? But i would love to see PER-DXB-BER on A332's



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2028 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

When?


filler

filler

David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently onlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1615 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2458 times:

Sounds like another example of German protectionism damaging business!


Next Flights: LHR-LBA (319-SK), MAN-ARN (736-SK), ARN-LHR (763-BA), LHR-CPH (CR9-SK), CPH-LHR (320-SK), LHR-IAH (744-BA)
User currently offlineLH422 From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2368 times:

Quoting jsoprano (Reply 10):
Although hell will freeze over before EK gives up FRA for BER, I think this is not possible unless EY vacates FRA as well, as the 4 port limitation applies to all UAE carriers combined. This is why Etihad cannot fly to BER either, because they are stuck with the 4 ports that Emirates elected in the first place.

Yes, this is the case, and EY will surely not give up FRA in favor of BER.

QF have also moved forward the last flight into FRA by half a year. The last flight will now be April 16.  

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130204/pdf/42ctm8nyxl52zm.pdf


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