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GRR Major Air Service Announcement Feb. 4th  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3100 posts, RR: 10
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11569 times:

It has been reported that on Monday, February 4, 2013 at 11:00am there will be a "major air service announcement" at GRR. The local media has already been notified according to the writeup linked below. While no specifics or hints are visable it is known that GRR had met last year with USAirways about getting them to return to western Michigan. It appears more likely that said announcement may relate to whatever Southwest intends to offer at GRR as it replaces AirTran there.

As this is Super Bowl Sunday when I am making this post in just one day we will know the answers. Your speculations or inside information is welcomed.

Courtesy: MLive

Ford Airport Alerts Media To 'Major Air Service Announcement' Next Week, But Mum On Specifics

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-m...lerts_media_to_m.html#incart_river

75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11564 times:

I'm guessing SWA service to BWI,MDW,DEN, PHX

User currently offlineb757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11484 times:

Doesn't WN release their schedule on the 4th?

I sure wish it was US launching service....



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11460 times:

NK to start DFW, FLL and ORD?

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11424 times:

I don't think there is any question about it.... Southwest is the announcement.


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

Currently FL has year-round service to BWI (2xD) and MCO (1xD) as well as seasonal service to RSW and FLL (both slated to end 4/13/13).

If I were a betting man, I would assume that BWI and MCO service would transition as is, and we'd see the introduction of another Florida destination and a western connection point. My guesses are FLL/TPA for Florida and DEN. DEN would allow WN to squeeze F9, much like it has in DAY and CAK.

Again, that's if I were a betting man  


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11236 times:

I'm guessing it's Southwest as well, I haven't heard any other rumblings about new service coming to GRR.

As far as US coming to GRR is concerned, I think that idea is dependent upon what happens with the potential AA merger. There wouldn't be a whole lot of point in US setting up facilities in GRR only to eventually consolodate into the AA counter.

I wouldn't be surprised to see WN add GRR-DEN just to put the squeeze on what's left of F9's service there.

Does anyone know how FL's station is currently staffed in GRR? I imagine they have above-wing counter/gate staff, but if they contract out the ramp I can imagine WN would want to bring that all in-house, so it could be a "job creating" announcement, too.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3735 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11197 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 4):

I don't think there is any question about it.... Southwest is the announcement.

If this is the case (and like you, I bet it is), I expect G4 to pack up and move from GRR and go to AZO, LAN, or both. G4 could start service from AZO-SFB/AZA (the first two Airbus bases for G4) as an Airbus destination, as the A319 can handle AZO's short runway unlike the MD-80. AZO was also a strong destination for Direct Air and has a beautiful new and horribly underutilized terminal. As for LAN, I could see G4 moving the GRR routes from MD-80 only bases (PIE, LAS, FLL) over to LAN to add to the existing SFB service.

That said, I expect WN to start GRR with 4-5 flights, similar to other converted FL stations that are GRR's size. Convert the 2 BWI and 1 MCO flights from WN to FL metal, and add service to DEN (for sure) and possibly LAS as well, and voila... you've got a strong new WN city. I don't expect MDW service because WN discontinued IND-MDW, which is similar in length.

Quoting JBo (Reply 6):
As far as US coming to GRR is concerned, I think that idea is dependent upon what happens with the potential AA merger.

I think that all new potential US flights are in a holding pattern until they decide whether to merge with AA or not. And I bet there's both a Plan A (merger) and a Plan B (backup if AA stays independent) in Tempe.

Quoting JBo (Reply 6):
but if they contract out the ramp I can imagine WN would want to bring that all in-house, so it could be a "job creating" announcement, too.

Not necessarily. If a WN station has fewer than 12(?) departures per day, the ground work can be contracted out per the latest ground contract. There is a departure-based cap on contracted ground work (I think 15% of departures). This flexibility is also the reason why WN abandoned the eight-flight rule in favor of a 15% ROI requirement for new stations (and why many of the FL station conversions have between two and five flights per day).



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11184 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 7):

When G4 announced service to Lansing, I think that was the beginning of the end for G4 at GRR... I think tomorrow's announcement will expedite the departure from GRR and the expansion of service at LAN.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2434 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10841 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 4):
I don't think there is any question about it.... Southwest is the announcement.

No doubt about it. It was posted on another thread, and I verified, GRR is no longer bookable online from September forward on AirTran.com.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 7):
That said, I expect WN to start GRR with 4-5 flights, similar to other converted FL stations that are GRR's size. Convert the 2 BWI and 1 MCO flights from WN to FL metal, and add service to DEN (for sure) and possibly LAS as well, and voila... you've got a strong new WN city. I don't expect MDW service because WN discontinued IND-MDW, which is similar in length.


My GRR predictions:
BWI x3
MCO x1
DEN x1-2

and perhaps (hopefully) TPA and RSW seasonally like FL did.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10799 times:

The story is picking up play in the SEA and ATL media outlets as well. Perhaps AS SEA-GRR or WN ATL-GRR.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10721 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 6):
Does anyone know how FL's station is currently staffed in GRR?

Servisair above and below wing.



Hey Swifty
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10576 times:

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 11):

Servisair above and below wing.

So then there's a chance that we could see WN implement their own gate staff at least above-wing then.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineB4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10541 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 1):
I'm guessing SWA service to BWI,MDW,DEN, PHX

Good guesses, I'll go for 3 of those 4. PHX seems the reach IMHO.

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 9):
My GRR predictions:
BWI x3
MCO x1
DEN x1-2

That's a good guess also.

I'll throw out the following:

BWI
MDW
BNA

I think Nashville is the dark horse. We'll see however!

Lastly, I am extremely skeptical of the use of the word "major" in all of this. Makes me think of cargo (not likely, no real facilities for serious cargo), an International flight (who?, nobody really. Unless DL could make a CRJ go GRR-AMS LOL!!!) or the more likely new carrier / new carrier offering with substatial service.

[Edited 2013-02-03 14:37:58]


B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3735 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10501 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
So then there's a chance that we could see WN implement their own gate staff at least above-wing then.

IMO, not if there's fewer than eight flights at GRR. One of the reasons that the eight-flight rule was there in the first place is because WN needed a minimum of eight flights to run a station profitably with WN employees.

Now that lower-cost contract employees can be used if a WN station has 12 flights or less, the eight-flight rule is no longer needed.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3735 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10446 times:

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 13):
an International flight (who?, nobody really. Unless DL could make a CRJ go GRR-AMS LOL!!!)

There is already international service from GRR - AC Express to YYZ. Unless, of course, someone could fly from Mexico or the Caribbean to GRR. That could qualify as a "big announcement" and help defend against SY at LAN.

I'm sticking by my prediction of an FL-to-WN conversion, though. If that's the case, I wonder if other remaining domestic FL-only cities like MEM will get WN service?



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10415 times:

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 13):
MDW

At a 119 NM and 135 statute miles I think MDW-GRR is to close.

If it is a WN announcement I think
DEN-GRR
ATL-GRR
BWI-GRR

I offer DEN as DEN in my mind take on the appearance of WN gateway to the west and quite a bit closer than PHX.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently onlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10398 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 15):
I wonder if other remaining domestic FL-only cities like MEM will get WN service?

From the WN Prediction Thread, it looks like MEM is staying FL, but being beefed up with connections to MDW, BWI, etc...

Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
I think Nashville is the dark horse. We'll see however!

I thought about BNA too, but BWI offers all of the same connections and is a larger station. Some routes may be more circuitous (e.g. GRR-BWI-SAN v. GRR-BNA-SAN), but I think BWI will win this one out. Not to say BNA couldn't be added later though!


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4581 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10337 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 15):
I'm sticking by my prediction of an FL-to-WN conversion, though.

If it really a prediction when there are facts already showing up pointing to it? LOL


User currently offlinemichiganatc From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9621 times:

I heard from a handful of GRR airport employees that the Kent County Airport (GRR) has asked WN for:

GRR-DEN
GRR-PHX
GRR-LAX
GRR-BWI
GRR-MCO
GRR-HOU

With that said, I would ask for GRR-LAX too, doesn't mean I'd get it....but would be pretty frickin sweet!!

I just wish that Delta would give us a SLC flight already. United's Denver route does awesome and I know a DL SLC flight would do real well too. MSN just got a SLC flight...maybe we're next?  


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1685 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9473 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 7):
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 10):

I don't expect MDW. It is clear that WN won't do service anymore unless there is local market. I don't expect the announcement is Alaska.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1685 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9453 times:
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Quoting sdoyon (Reply 17):

WN would add STL before BNA.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9288 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 10):
The story is picking up play in the SEA and ATL media outlets as well. Perhaps AS SEA-GRR or WN ATL-GRR.

If anyone flies GRR-SEA I will eat five large, cooked, crows.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 16):
At a 119 NM and 135 statute miles I think MDW-GRR is to close.

I don't believe in the too short argument. Isn't there a rather massive lake between the two areas? A route that short can have a very low fare and still turn a profit. I'm sure it will be a far better alternative than driving.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1685 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9271 times:
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Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 22):

The drive between Chicago and GRR isn't that bad. Lots of Chicagoans have weekend condos and cabins in MI. MKE us another story however. I think someone like 9K could fly MKE GRR and do well.


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 16):
At a 119 NM and 135 statute miles I think MDW-GRR is to close.

You have to remember that actual mileage between the two cities by car is more like 200 miles by car and if traffic is bad (which happens quite frequently near Gary where I-65 and I-80/94 meet) can be almost a four hour drive.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
25 ouboy79 : Downtown to Downtown is 176 miles. Ideal driving conditions 2 hrs 40 mins. Now...ideal and Chicago traffic usually never happens so add another hour
26 b757capt : If MDW-GRR one thing will be sure. Southwest would be banking on connections. Very different from the business plan that made the corporation so succe
27 SLCUT2777 : UA did GRR-DEN for a number of years, didn't work, but DL has managed to get SLC-IND a go since the NW merger, and since GRR has similar demography t
28 PSU.DTW.SCE : DL is not adding SLC-GRR and anyways they wouldn't have a much dog-and-pony show media hype PR event like whatever is planned for tomorrow. It is most
29 wnflyguy : I think it's WN service with 2 BWI 1 MCO and 1 DEN or 2 BWI, 2 STL and 1 MCO. wnfg
30 bobloblaw : United still does GRR-DEN and in the summer they go to 2x. It must work quite well
31 tjwgrr : Huh? This has been an active UAL route for a number of years.... Currently an A319 DEN-GRR, and a CR7 GRR-DEN. Goes back to 2x daily later this month
32 airliner371 : How long until F9 ends GRR-DEN?
33 AirDance : The Southwest Airlines Route map is showing that GRR picks up direct service to BWI, DEN, MCO, and STL. Though the booking engine is currently not all
34 michiganatc : Wow, I thought for sure we'd get a HOU flight. Not surprised at all that MDW and ATL didn't make the cut though.
35 Post contains images michiganatc : There's no doubt that this announcement is about WN today. My point is that I'm very surprised we don't have a SLC flight right now. We have an abund
36 Sligo : What is the smallest DL-family a/c that can make a GRR-SLC run year-round?
37 michiganatc : I would assume SKW could easily run a CRJ7. Think the 200 wouldn't have the range...and that flight would suck. Tall guy, abnormally low windows, 2+3
38 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yep, I was going to post the same thing. The WN route map shows: BWI DEN MCO STL There are numerous mid-sized cities in the Midwest and East Coast th
39 FlyPNS1 : Looks like BWI 3x, DEN 1x, MCO 1x and STL 1x. Not a bad schedule with a nice gain in seats compared to FL's current schedule, though room for growth
40 michiganatc : I was surprised too. It was the top 10 list and Orlando was around #3 if I remmber correctly. I've been trying to find the article...I'll work on tha
41 PSU.DTW.SCE : DL will not operate a CRJ-200 on a route more than 750 miles, and is trying to get them down to less than 450 miles or less. DL does not operate any
42 777ER : Source for the possible route limits?
43 Post contains images michiganatc : Yes, but the above airports are in a completely different category. GRR is in the Midwest, we border the Central Time Zone and could be flown on an R
44 bobloblaw : I don't believe that SFO is the #1 destination from GRR. Maybe for cities with no nonstop service but I'd expect LAX and even BOS to be bigger. It wou
45 Post contains links Web : Mlive has a little more info. Start date August 11. http://www.mlive.com/business/west-m...s_date_f.html#incart_river_default
46 GentFromAlaska : I'm not sure WN one daily flight will chase F9 off and to DEN of all places. F9 currently offers the service less than daily on Wednesday's and Frida
47 Flytravel : I don't think F9 will stick on the route as there are better routes for F9 to fly. It's too much competition with UA and WN for GRR. It's not like the
48 bobloblaw : I know A.netters place a high value on that but most people dont. If they did, AS, US and WN would never fly flights beyond 2 hours (yes, I know AS h
49 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: WOOD-TV, Grand Rapids Ford Airport Adds Southwest Airlines http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local...ord-airport-and-southwest-airlines Courtes
50 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Southwest Airlines Press Release Double Up! Southwest Airlines And AirTran Airways Extend Schedules Through Late September, Bringing Southwe
51 9w748capt : Wow - great news for GRR, but a major blow to AZO (my hometown). That nice new terminal there reminds of Mirabel!
52 AirDance : If WN adds additional service to Florida and/or Las Vegas from GRR, we could possibly see Allegiant Air relocate some service to AZO. In the end this
53 burnsie28 : I like how they are making a big deal about this... then everyone forgets to mention that it really isn't much for new service since they are replacin
54 FWAERJ : The Mad Dogs can't handle AZO's runway reliably, but the new Airbuses coming online can... and I wouldn't be surprised to see G4 start AZO with SFB t
55 usflyguy : Replacing FL's 4 daily 717's with WN's 6 daily 737's including new flights to STL and DEN... It's something for a small airport like that to be proud
56 tjwgrr : Doubling the number flights (since TPA and RSW were seasonal) with connections to the west, far more connecting destination options, and a substantia
57 swacle : Ummm....Inflight wifi including streaming live TV and Movies does not count as IFE? Heavy and expensive seat back monitors do not need to be included
58 KingAir200 : I'm interested to see what, if any, changes DL will make to the GRR schedule after the announcement. I suppose UA too, though they're not as invested
59 PSU.DTW.SCE : I'd expect maybe more capacity on GRR-MSP but upgauging to more mainline on fewer flights. I'm surprised CVG-GRR is still flown 3x/day. GRR gets more
60 9w748capt : I suppose - hadn't thought of G4 possibly relocating to AZO. But as someone who grew up in AZO it's sad to see the airport turn into such an empty sh
61 CIDFlyer : not surprised HOU wasnt announced, there are alot of midwest destinations like DTW, FNT, CMH, MKE, MSP, OMA that do not have HOU service so GRR not g
62 PSU.DTW.SCE : Not surprised either for the same reasons, as most cities can be reached on one connection via STL or DEN.
63 PlanesNTrains : Per Faremeasure.com (fwiw) Daily Passengers from GRR: DEN 285* BWI 281* MCO 258* LAS 190 BOS 170 PHX 169 LGA 153 LAX 141 TPA 135 SEA 131 SFO 114 STL 4
64 bobloblaw : I figured BOS was the largest city with no nonstop service from GRR. Where is ATL?
65 jetlanta : And DFW? This list is incomplete.
66 JBAirwaysFan : Let's see. DL's current schedule calls for: ATL: 2x MD-88, 1x CR9 DTW: 3x ERJ, 1x CR7, 1x CRJ, 1x MD-88 MSP: 1x 319, 2x CRJ, 1x MD-90, 1x E175 CVG: 3
67 bobloblaw : Delta cant respond to every schedule change from every competitor. So where does Delta get the mainline aircraft to fund MSP and ATL upgauges? They h
68 Post contains links ouboy79 : http://www.faremeasure.com/View-Airp...R__Ford_International_Airport.html There is a link to the data the poster above is using. Took all of 30 second
69 KingAir200 : ATL will be back to all mainline for the summer, MSP has 6th daily on mainline planned for the season, and the launch LGA becomes a E70/CR7. DTW also
70 tjwgrr :
71 JBo : AZO and MKG are in very similar boats with loss of service due to the economy and industry consolidation. Back in the day, MKG could profitably suppo
72 bobloblaw : NW had no choice. They made tons in MN, WI and MI. They were low yield everywhere else.
73 KingAir200 : Oh I'm not disputing that. A joke among old NW-ers is that NW flew to MI, MN, WI, and the Dakotas because they had to, not because they wanted to. At
74 JBAirwaysFan : No, they can't but A) This is Southwest and B) it seems as if they have plenty of mainline aircraft around these days. So many cities are seeing main
75 PSU.DTW.SCE : That is not necessarily a true statement. A) Southwest is actually a more rationale competitor than FL in regards to pricing. However, WN has much mo
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