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Australian Aviation Thread # 68  
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2155 posts, RR: 5
Posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 21733 times:

Welcome to the Australia Aviation Thread #68 in the midst of some big announcements.

Previously we discussed:

* Predictions for Melbourne
* Royal Brunei to keep MEL over BNE putting politics ahead of logic
* Virgin Australia moves to Sabre, replaces DJ with VA
* CZ reinstates PER-CAN, announces BNE
* JQ breakdown in HNL
* Issues with PER redevelopment
* JQ, QF and the 787 issues
* Additional 5 717s for QantasLink
* Weather related diversions
* Could QF base aircraft in Dubai for flights EK is constrained from flying?
* QF loses NZ ground handling contract to Toll Dnata
* QF removes its code from JQ domestic flights between major capitals
* Discussion of Qantas special liveries
* MH adding flights to BNE
* TransAsia rumoured to fly to Australia and NZ
* QF announces changes to Asian network, to cease FRA in April.

Happy flying.


Applying insanity to normality
203 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 21662 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 205):
So the new Asian strategy is deferred another 3 years and even that may be optimnistic given the 787-9s in 2016 are no certainty given the current dramas. Surely QF understands that SQ,CX and the Chinese carriers are not going to sit on their hands for 3 years. By 2016, there will be litlle of worth for QF to consider that is not already serviced.

Entirely agreed. If QF wants to resume services to India, Beijing and Seoul they'd better do it before 2016! It's also worthwhile noting that nowhere is there anything more ambitious for the 789. No resumption of SFO, FCO or a new service to a place like GRU. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens when;

- We know the outcome of the current Italy traffic rights. If QF loses 200 seats a week to Virgin the only way they can make it up is be commencing services. If they lose half of the remainder, 300 seats per week, again the only way to make it up is to actually fly it;
- The SAA codeshare finishes. The cynic in me thinks that QF will entirely abandon the PER-South Africa market and concentrate on SYD.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 205):
Truly bizarre ceasing PER-HKG!!! You can still earn FF points on CX but CX must be wrapped, Likewise SQ will gladly accept the ADL pax heading to Asia.

The cynic in me is waiting for the Jetstar announcement.........


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 21618 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 1):
If QF wants to resume services to India, Beijing and Seoul they'd better do it before 2016!

Will they have the aircraft? I thought (could be wrong) the 787's weren't coming until 2016.

But I wonder if anything can be carved in granite with that aircraft and I'm wondering if there is a Plan B.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 21578 times:

[quote=mariner,reply=2]Will they have the aircraft? I thought (could be wrong) the 787's weren't coming until 2016.

But I wonder if anything can be carved in granite with that aircraft and I'm wondering if there is a Plan B.

I think the Plan B is already in place - instead of the A332's coming from JQ back to Domestic, they go to International instead. The A332 has plenty of range to do India, China, Korea and most of the rest of the region from Australia while the 767's, with the IPADS etc, are more than adequate for the domestic trunk network. It may be less efficient to keep them around but if QF wants to do it, they've got the capability.

Otherwise, and I actually think this is a good idea, QF could obtain some 737-900ER's and use them on the East Coast trunk routes while they split the A332's coming from Jetstar between International and Domestic. The 4 JQ A332's with the lighter floors could come back to Domestic along with a couple of others while the balance are upgraded to A380 style and go International. That kills two birds with 1 stone while allowing QF to keep a simplified domestic fleet and retiring the 767's.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 21564 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 3):
I think the Plan B is already in place - instead of the A332's coming from JQ back to Domestic, they go to International instead.

Sounds good to me.

I actually meant a slightly broader Plan B - a few more A330's - but I'll go with your versions of it, for now.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21449 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
I actually meant a slightly broader Plan B - a few more A330's - but I'll go with your versions of it, for now

I'm entirely with you Mariner! I think a few more A330's couldn't hurt given the problems with the 787 program.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 21426 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 5):
I think a few more A330's couldn't hurt given the problems with the 787 program.

Only problem is Airbus has no available slots on their A330 line in the short-term.

They could approach EK who is rumoured to be reducing their A332 fleet as new 77Ws arrive but these are RR powered, not GE powered like the existing QF fleet and VA's experience with the ex-EK A332s has not been a happy one!!



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 21407 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 5):
I think a few more A330's couldn't hurt given the problems with the 787 program.

I think it is close to essential, but maybe I'm a tad more wary (cynical?) about the 787 deliveries than most.

Every time AJ sings the praises of the aircraft, I wonder when he'll wake up and smell the coffee. It can only change the game when it's flying - and it ain't.

I think the same of Air New Zealand and the only way I can explain it is with the analyst Richard Aboulafia's comment: "the drug-like rush of the 787."

It seems to be a tough addiction to break. As I said in the other thread, it is astonishing to me that the then management of Qantas, supposedly hard-headed business people, went doolalley and bet a large part of the farm on so much new technology - and didn't have a back-up plan.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-03 22:28:26]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 21346 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
Every time AJ sings the praises of the aircraft, I wonder when he'll wake up and smell the coffee. It can only change the game when it's flying - and it ain't.

I have a friend who is constantly singing the praises of how wonderful her husband is. One of my less than tolerant friends, admittedly when he was drunk, asked her if she kept repeating herself to convince us or to try and convince herself. I see Alan Joyce's comments about the 787 in the same light.  
Quoting tullamarine (Reply 6):
Only problem is Airbus has no available slots on their A330 line in the short-term.

Given QF is a substantial Airbus operator, if they needed them I'll bet Airbus could find them. I'd go as far to say that QF should cancel a couple of the A380's they have deferred and convert them to A330's. That works well for Airbus, who has orders now, and for QF taking A380's deferred to 2020 off of their order book. I doubt QF would take second hand aircraft that don't have commonality with the existing fleet.


User currently offline9MMPD From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 286 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 21344 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 8):
I doubt QF would take second hand aircraft that don't have commonality with the existing fleet.

VH-OEB, VH-OEC, VH-OED, VH-ZXA, VH-ZXB, VH-ZXC, VH-ZXD, VH-ZXE, VH-ZXF & VH-ZXG.

There is precedent.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 21291 times:

Quoting 9MMPD (Reply 9):
There is precedent.

Let me re-phrase to "I doubt they would do it again". Considering they are getting rid of the ex BA 767's and 2 of the first 744's to be retired were bought second hand, and were apparently problematic to maintain, I'd say it's not an experiment that QF will want to repeat!


User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 21195 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 1):
Quoting tullamarine (Reply 205):
Truly bizarre ceasing PER-HKG!!! You can still earn FF points on CX but CX must be wrapped, Likewise SQ will gladly accept the ADL pax heading to Asia.

The cynic in me is waiting for the Jetstar announcement.........

Yes I tend to agree JQ are just waiting in the wings to take over these routes. It does amaze me how QF can just give up citys in its own back yard to the competition. Perth is a city on its own with a large ex pat english population over there most of the mining HQ's are located over there you would think there would be enough buisness for QF out of Perth alone. I am sure both SQ and CX must be rubbing their hands together. Why hasnt QF created an Indian Ocean network out of Perth? Holiday places like the Seychelles, Mauritius, Madagascar. If the codeshare with SAA ends operate Perth/Joburg, even the Maldives all from Perth I am sure they could make money some how all from Perth make Perth a West Coast hub.


User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 21061 times:

Am I the only one who finds it absolutely hilarious that EK and SQ can manage to fill ginourmous Boeing 777 aircraft 3-4 x daily and offer 21-28 weekly flights to a single destination - while all QF will now offer PER passengers is a daily Singapore service? I thought we'd see an INCREASE in Asian flying, perhaps bringing DPS and CGK back to QF mainline, heck even the return of Tokyo to strengthen JQ Japan. Absolutely pathetic if you ask me. This is why I'm a proud Singapore Airlines frequent flier. Bright days ahead for all the Asian airlines flying into WA.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 21027 times:
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Quoting Ben175 (Reply 12):
This is why I'm a proud Singapore Airlines frequent flier. Bright days ahead for all the Asian airlines flying into WA.

Why should Qantas offer more flights if you're so determined to fly with Singapore?

It's true of any airline - use it or lose it. You can't have it both ways.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 21002 times:

There are 4 phases to be announced, today's was phase 1...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 20985 times:

Yeah well I bet the South Australians and West Australians dont think much of the 1st phase.

User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 20962 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 15):

LOL, well said sir.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 20946 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 15):

No need to shoot the messenger!

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 20917 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
No need to shoot the messenger!

LoL No you are very safe my friend no bullets here EK413  


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 20891 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 18):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
No need to shoot the messenger!

LoL No you are very safe my friend no bullets here EK413

Hopefully next 3 phases come with better news for South & West Australians...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 20794 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 12):
Am I the only one who finds it absolutely hilarious that EK and SQ can manage to fill ginourmous Boeing 777 aircraft 3-4 x daily and offer 21-28 weekly flights to a single destination - while all QF will now offer PER passengers is a daily Singapore service? I thought we'd see an INCREASE in Asian flying, perhaps bringing DPS and CGK back to QF mainline, heck even the return of Tokyo to strengthen JQ Japan. Absolutely pathetic if you ask me. This is why I'm a proud Singapore Airlines frequent flier. Bright days ahead for all the Asian airlines flying into WA

No, its called a different business model. SQ, EK, CX etc are 'hub carriers' whereas QF is effectively a point to point carrier.

Lets take PER as an example. SQ flying into PER not only carries those flying direct from PER-SIN (i.e. O&D) but also connecting/transit traffic (e.g. those flying from PER who want to fly into Paris,London, Beijing, Mumbai, Tokyo, Zurich etc but connect in Singapore).
Even with the previous QF 'mini-hub' in SIN, QF's PER-SIN flight was effectively comprised of 2 categories of passengers (those going to LHR/FRA and connecting on the QF LHR/FRA services and those flying just into Singapore). Compare that with SQ, who can connect the PER traffic with their entire network in Asia/Sub-continent and Europe.

In terms of DPS/CGK going back to QF mainline, ain't going to happen. They are tourist/VFR markets and will never be high yielding enough to support a QF service.



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20757 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 20):
No, its called a different business model. SQ, EK, CX etc are 'hub carriers' whereas QF is effectively a point to point carrier.


And QF is the national carrier of Australia - Australia is not Sydney.


User currently onlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20748 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 21):
And QF is the national carrier of Australia - Australia is not Sydney.

It may be the national carrier but it's purpose is not to serve every city out of Australia, but it is to run an airline profitably. If that means certain markets/cities don't get served then so be it.

And let's not go down the route of QF is always so Sydney 'centric'. There's a good reason why Sydney gets most of the traffic, it's because that's where the greatest demand is. One only needs to look at the number and frequency (and size of airplane) of all the other airlines that fly into SYD vs MEL/BNE/ADL/PER and it's no coincidence that QF is not the only airline which focuses the majority of their ops at SYD.

If the other capital cities could support direct services (i.e. make money and generate a return), then QF would be operating those. QF not operating certain services is not because they're brain dead but rather the route isn't sustainable.

**Btw, Yes I am from Sydney and I'm not trying to turn this into a mine is bigger than your's contest.

[Edited 2013-02-04 05:26:44]


319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 20693 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 22):
One only needs to look at the number and frequency (and size of airplane) of all the other airlines that fly into SYD vs MEL/BNE/ADL/PER and it's no coincidence that QF is not the only airline which focuses the majority of their ops at SYD.
SQ and EK's frequency to PER and SYD pretty much match, obviously SYD gets the A380's but, in EK's case, that's simply because PER's management is ludacris.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 22):
If the other capital cities could support direct services (i.e. make money and generate a return), then QF would be operating those. QF not operating certain services is not because they're brain dead but rather the route isn't sustainable.

The twice daily PER-SIN rotation has been profitable. Many occasions I have booked a PER-SIN flight only to find that both flights are sold out and QF wants to route me via Sydney (ha-ha). Sure, a generous amount of feed will be lost with SIN-LHR/FRA leaving, but if Alan Joyce knows how to run an airline and isn't talking smack (who am I kidding), new demand should be generated through an increase in cooperation with QF's Asian partners and a better schedule alignment. This proposed "Asian expansion" is complete BS for WA, like always. I highly doubt we'll see any new destinations added in the next "four phases" either. I'm not demanding QF operate flights to every Asian capital, but HKG three times a week is a vital route, unless they want to pass even more of their traffic to CX.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 22):
**Btw, Yes I am from Sydney and I'm not trying to turn this into a mine is bigger than your's contest.

Oh don't worry, us in the West have Qatar!   

No disrespect to you, but I don't think you understand simply because you have the luxury of Qantas' extensive and expansive hub at your doorstep. Saying PER cannot sustain anything more than a flimsy A330 to Singapore makes no logical sense when almost every other established airline in PER has doubled or even tripled their capacity within the last 12-24 months. Yes, EK and SQ capture alot of connecting traffic, but there is significant O&D demand for Singapore (it's one of Australia's most travelled international routes) and Hong Kong. Qantas' cuts to the PER network have not gone unnoticed, many people over here believe QF is utterly useless and overpriced with their two (and in many cases, three) stop journies to anywhere in Europe but LHR. I used to be very patriotic about my flag carrier, but AJ seriously needs to go. Pronto.

[Edited 2013-02-04 08:08:23]

[Edited 2013-02-04 08:11:17]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 20649 times:
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Quoting Ben175 (Reply 23):
Saying PER cannot sustain anything more than a flimsy A330 to Singapore makes no logical sense when almost every other established airline in PER has doubled or even tripled their capacity within the last 12-24 months.

And there you have the answer - or a large part of it.

Australians have been flocking to the ME/Asian carriers (for whatever reason and price may be the biggest) but then complain if Qantas cuts service.

I'm not sure why "use it or lose it" is so hard to understand. If you want more Qantas at PER you have to use it.

All the airline can do is offer - it can't actually force people to part with their money.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 20831 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 21):

And QF is the national carrier of Australia - Australia is not Sydney.

Would you like to prove that?
QF ceased being the "National Carrier" in the 1990s when the government sold it. Its now just another profit driven company. It does not owe anybody & anywhere services that it perceives as not profitable or not profitable enough.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 20635 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
I'm not sure why "use it or lose it" is so hard to understand. If you want more Qantas at PER you have to use it.

You're pretty much saying you expect WA passengers to fork out hundreds of extra dollars and add ridiculous backtracking/valuable hours to an itinerary so Qantas won't threaten to dismantle an already-absysmal hub? The reason nobody flies QF from PER is because they don't fly anywhere anymore!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 20879 times:
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Quoting Ben175 (Reply 26):
You're pretty much saying you expect WA passengers to fork out hundreds of extra dollars and add ridiculous backtracking/valuable hours to an itinerary so Qantas won't threaten to dismantle an already-absysmal hub?

No, I am not saying anything like that. I'm saying that an airline can only offer - if people choose not to fly it, or fly others instead, there isn't much the airline can do.

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 26):
The reason nobody flies QF from PER is because they don't fly anywhere anymore!

The question should really be - why doesn't Qantas fly much from Perth anymore?

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-04 19:03:49]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 20829 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
If you want more Qantas at PER you have to use it.

The QF issue at PER is a couple of things as I see it;

1. The QF domestic situation in Perth has never been stronger. QF has a large share of transcon, Corporate Traffic, lots of FIFO Mining traffic and is the biggest operator of intra-WA routes. This all generates lots of presence for the Frequent Flyer Program and lots points that need places to be redeemed.

2. JQ covers DPS, CGK and SIN from PER which gives QF group coverage of the major leisure routes. 1 x SIN mainline service to cover business people, along with a JQ SIN service to cover the leisure segment, should be enough in terms of services with the question really being that of capacity and what is appropriate for the market.

The real problem with PER, and esp PER-HKG which I've done quite a few times, is that the lack of frequency in the market by QF set it up to be a failure while an A333 was too much aircraft for a 3 x weekly service. A daily A332 properly configured, ie with say 24 Skybeds rather than 36, would be a more appropriate aircraft for PER-HKG and would actually probably be a better aircraft for a sustainable PER-SIN based purely on O&D.

The other thing out of PER that QF doesn't recognise, and that I'm surprised that JQ hasn't also recognised, is there are plenty of shorthaul opportunities available that they should be exploiting. Virgin has PER-Phuket and I don't see any reason why JQ isn't in that market. PER-KUL also has a fair amount of both business, leisure and student traffic and again I don't see any reason why JQ isn't it that market as well. (Even with MAS now being in OW)

In relation to ADL, I'm very surprised they didn't swap the QF A330 for a JQ A330. Although it would cause the usual amount of outrage, it would at least link ADL in with Asia rather than completely abandoning it.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 20714 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 28):
2. JQ covers DPS, CGK and SIN from PER which gives QF group coverage of the major leisure routes.

That may be part of the problem - perception. Jetstar has achieved what it set out to be, the brand does not carry national connotations.

Too successfully, perhaps. I don't think many Australians get the warm and fuzzies about Jetstar and for the flag wavers among us, that may be important.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20642 times:

Jetstar operating PER-CGK has had the perverse effect of making Garuda desirable.   


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User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20579 times:
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Quoting tullamarine (Reply 30):
Jetstar operating PER-CGK has had the perverse effect of making Garuda desirable.   

I've never had a problem on Garuda. I like the airline.

Then again, I've never had a problem on Jetstar. You blokes must be really, really picky.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20551 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 28):
and that I'm surprised that JQ hasn't also recognised, is there are plenty of shorthaul opportunities available that they should be exploiting.

Exactly. I have no idea why JQ haven't looked into flights from PER to KUL, BKI, HKT, SUB or KCH. We've even got PR launching PER-DRW-MNL with an A320 now.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20537 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 30):
Jetstar operating PER-CGK has had the perverse effect of making Garuda desirable.

As much as I agree with Mariner, I think there is room for QF Mainline 737-800 service on CGK. That's what it used to be prior to Jetstar taking over. The problem is the PER-CGK aircraft is operating onwards into the Jetstar Asia network so from an overall network persepective JQ makes a better use of the aircraft. What's also interesting is that while QF promised a daily PER-CGK service, the limited Indonesia capacity they have is dumped primarily into DPS. If QF is serious about PER-CGK then we'll see what happens when more Indonesia capacity comes up. While it's only 2 or 3 a week, it'll never really do any good.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 20383 times:
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Quoting sydscott (Reply 33):
As much as I agree with Mariner, I think there is room for QF Mainline 737-800 service on CGK.

Maybe, even probably, but I assume there's a reason they switched it to Jetstar and - I'm guessing - the reason is yield.

It's a curious problem. Indonesia is one of Australia's nearest land mass neighbours, with a vast population but its relationship with Australia is ambivalent and for many Australians it is fly-over country - apart from Bali.

I am surprised (nay, shocked) that there is no Australian air service to Lombok, even just a couple of times a week. It's a beautiful island, almost like Bali used to be, with fine hotels. I am less surprised that there is no air service, even just two or three times a week to Yogjakarta, or several other Indonesian cities. There are quite strong, if old (WW2) Australian ties to Balikpapan, and some oil industry and access to the forests of Borneo, but we won't be flying there on any Australian airline.

These places all within the range of the A320 from PER (or some from DRW) but for Australians, it seems it's Bali - or on to Phuket.

So while others might want more air service from PER (or DRW) to the glamorous capitals of the world, I'm scratching my head that our near neighbour is so under-served.

I know of no other country in the world where this situation exists.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-05 02:47:12]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20290 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 23):
I used to be very patriotic about my flag carrier, but AJ seriously needs to go. Pronto.

Are you offering to step in, take charge of a well known icon & return it to profitability again without making the necessary changes which AJ had balls to go ahead with & have it done...?

Just remember had it not been for AJ the loyal QF passengers wouldn't be flying the QF anymore due to the ongoing union industrial action... Yes, he grounded the airline but it had to be done to show who's boss...


EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 20272 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 35):
Are you offering to step in, take charge of a well known icon & return it to profitability again without making the necessary changes which AJ had balls to go ahead with & have it done...?

Why don't you have a scroll through the wall posts on Qantas' Facebook page... you might come to realise that to the people of WA and SA, Qantas is no Australian icon.


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 20233 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 30):

Garuda is bloody good these days mate, you should give them a go next time you head off to South East Asia or Europe...            

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 36):
Why don't you have a scroll through the wall posts on Qantas' Facebook page... you might come to realise that to the people of WA and SA, Qantas is no Australian icon.

People on facebook say outrageous things at the best of times, but I do see what your point is. The people who reply on behalf of QF pretty much copy and paste the same bloody response... Hopeless!!

I do find it a little strange that the QF PR department have not sent AJ out to chat about the latest changes (he has been pretty quiet of late), all I have seen are newspaper articles. It would be good to see QF talking up the good points of the restructure too. (Or maybe there are none.)

Quoting EK413 (Reply 35):
Are you offering to step in, take charge of a well known icon & return it to profitability again without making the necessary changes which AJ had balls to go ahead with & have it done...?

I am, and I would select a few people from this forum to be part of my leadership team too.      

Quoting sydscott (Reply 28):
In relation to ADL, I'm very surprised they didn't swap the QF A330 for a JQ A330. Although it would cause the usual amount of outrage, it would at least link ADL in with Asia rather than completely abandoning it.

I think the loss of ADL - SIN won't be a major inconvenience for those pax flying to Singapore and beyond via MEL. That is if the ADL - MEL connections are well timed with International MEL departures. You usually have to be at the airport 3 hours before for International, and about 30 minutes before hand on a domestic. So the two options might be very similar time from check in in ADL to disembarking in SIN.

I guess the same goes for people who still want to fly from BNE/ADL to LHR via SYD on QF Metal... Shouldn't be too much of a total time difference (however SYD can be nightmarish)

Perth to HKG on the other hand, completely different story.



Its time to fly!
User currently offlineFlyingsottsman From Australia, joined Oct 2010, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 20216 times:

Every time the subject of QF and routes comes up the "Sydney vs the rest of Australia" comes up, its been like that for decades and will continue to be like that, for those of us that dont live in Sydney we dont have the luxuary of seeing like 10 or more QF tails lined up at the international terminal flying to whats left of their world network. Even here in Melbourne we have lost a few citys served by QF. For Perth over the years QF have not had a vision for Western Australia and this goes back to the GD years, I have always woundered why couldnt have QF years ago make Perth a gateway to Australia from the west like as Sydney is from the east. Perth is a unique city in the fact that it is one of the most isolated citys in the world it has a popluation of over a million people a beautiful city with hot summers mild winters, south of Perth for the wine buffs you have Margret River and for the sufers some of the best waves to ride in the world and beautiful and ruggered coastlline and some great fishing. North of Perth you have Geraldton, and Kalbari and Monkey Mia once again great fishing and holiday places up that way plus Ningaloo Reef which is I belive is on par with the Great Barrier Reef plus Perth itself the city has a very large ex pat English popluation the mining sector that this stupid and desperate Federal Labor Government rely on are head quartered in Perth. So my point is why didnt they over the years QF base a few wide bodys at Perth open up the Indian Ocean and create markets like Seychells, the Maidives, Sri Lanka, and even Madagascar they are with in flying distance of Perth or a one stop flight to LHR via Johannesburg. there are so many markets that QF can try from a city that sits right on the Indian Ocean and is the capital of a State that is bigger than Texas. I find it amazing that the national airline of Australia have all but left Perth with no international service except for Singapore and handed Perth over to the competition. Not even a Perth Auckland service, there is so much that QF can do with Perth and Western Austraila I am sure if they could make Perth a gateway to Australia from the West it could work. Just some of my thoughts. But I dont blame the West Australians being pissed of with last lot of anouncements regarding their city and Qantas.

User currently onlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 20225 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 23):
Oh don't worry, us in the West have Qatar!

I could list a number of carriers that fly into SYD and not PER, but I'll let you have your moment in the sun  
Quoting Ben175 (Reply 23):
No disrespect to you, but I don't think you understand simply because you have the luxury of Qantas' extensive and expansive hub at your doorstep. Saying PER cannot sustain anything more than a flimsy A330 to Singapore makes no logical sense when almost every other established airline in PER has doubled or even tripled their capacity within the last 12-24 months. Yes, EK and SQ capture alot of connecting traffic, but there is significant O&D demand for Singapore (it's one of Australia's most travelled international routes) and Hong Kong

As per the previous post by the others in the thread, the other carriers are able to beat QF on route network choices and price (as they have proven lower cost bases). So it becomes a self-perputuating cycle, people fly the other ME/Asian carriers and QF have to reduce/withdraw their services, and as QF withdraws the others pick up the slack left by QF.

But don't get too jealous of us in SYD, whilst we may have QF's main hub here, the QF Intl network is peanuts when compared to EK. EK's FIDS in terminal 3 of DXB is truly astonishing !!  Wow!

[Edited 2013-02-05 04:59:29]


319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offline9MMPD From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 286 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 20191 times:

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 38):
Perth is a unique city in the fact that it is one of the most isolated citys in the world it has a popluation of over a million people

We are close the 2 million now (curently 1.9) thats alot of travellers to forsake.

Just hope AJ can get QF International back on its feet and then use some imagination for Perth.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 20059 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 38):
the mining sector that this stupid and desperate Federal Labor Government rely on are head quartered in Perth.

If you're trying to sell Perth and Western Australia, you lost me right there.

If you want Qantas to be a "national carrier" you'd better push your mates on the other side of politics to re-nationalise the airline.

But personally, I'd turn BME into an international airport.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20008 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 36):

you might come to realise that to the people of WA and SA, Qantas is no Australian icon.

I never said "Australian icon"... I said "well known icon"...

As for those comments on Facebook it comes from those which don't understand how the industry works...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19957 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
Maybe, even probably, but I assume there's a reason they switched it to Jetstar and - I'm guessing - the reason is yield.

Personally I doubt that. I think the reason has more to do with Jetstar being able to use the Australian beyond rights into Singapore to connect in with the Jetstar Asia Network, especially since it's a Jetstar Asia aircraft operating PER-CGK under a leasing arrangement, whereas QF mainline, having no real need to connect CGK-SIN, wouldn't use them. So I think it has more to do with that than yield.

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
So while others might want more air service from PER (or DRW) to the glamorous capitals of the world, I'm scratching my head that our near neighbour is so under-served.

I think what we really need are Australia-Indonesia Open Skies. At the moment all of the Indonesia capacity on the Australian end is entirely utilised. An Open Skies arrangement would encourage the connecting of these secondary cities and allow lots more capacity into CGK and DPS. That, along with more capacity into Italy, France and Canada, should be high on the list of things to do for DFAT and the Dept of Transport.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 39):
I could list a number of carriers that fly into SYD and not PER, but I'll let you have your moment in the sun

That works the other way around as well. There are a number that fly into Perth that don't fly into SYD.  


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19949 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 43):
So I think it has more to do with that than yield.

Maybe. If aircraft use is the key to it, that that strikes me as entirely valid, too. It is all Qantas Group.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19902 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 3):
QF could obtain some 737-900ER's and use them on the East Coast trunk routes while they split the A332's coming from Jetstar between International and Domestic.

I've always thought this, and still do. In fact I always wondered where the 757 went with QF. A 757 style aircraft (739MAX or 321NEO) would be perfect for Australian domestic. Most markets operate with a mix of 767 and 737 anyway, so meet them half way and make everything 739. If they wanted they could even go down the AA 321 route and have a flAAgship product for PER-SYD/MEL/BNE.

The A321/739 (again using a flAAghsip interior) would also be perfect for near-Asia flying, and not just from PER/DRW. For example, CGK and MNL (maybe even SIN) should be within the NEO's range from BNE.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 3):
I think the Plan B is already in place - instead of the A332's coming from JQ back to Domestic, they go to International instead. The A332 has plenty of range to do India, China, Korea and most of the rest of the region from Australia while the 767's, with the IPADS etc, are more than adequate for the domestic trunk network.

Sounds good to me. I flew on a refurbished iPad 767 (a HNL bird) last week and was VERY impressed. They will be fine for domestic routes for the rest of this decade.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 43):
I think what we really need are Australia-Indonesia Open Skies

Sopt on. Personally I don't doubt that there is demand for an A320 from Yogyakarta to Australia. However, so long as the bilateral limits frequency then practically every authority will be used to DPS. An open skies agreement should be the #1 aviation priority IMHO.

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 21):
And QF is the national carrier of Australia - Australia is not Sydney.

If that is how you feel, then I suggest that you start lobbying the Commonwealth to re-nationalize Qantas, and run it as a public transport provider.

If not, let Qantas be operated in a profit-maximizing manner for the benefit of its shareholders, allowing those same shareholders' management team to pursue those markets where it sees the greatest profit potential. *


*NB: I don't, and never have, live in Sydney, and can in fact count on one hand the number of time that I have been to that city in my life.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19845 times:

Unlike some I can understand the rationale behind the reduced services out of Perth, but I am personally more concerned with the redemption status for QF FF points out of Perth. At present with all of the changes to schedules and alliances, Perth QF FF's have been left severely disadvantaged. Take for instance a PER - LHR redemption. You now only have the choice of CX via HGK, or QF via MEL or SYD, all of which require significant additional points.

I know that this may well change after 1st April, with QF codesharing on EK metal, but we have to wait for those arrangements to be made, and there has been no word yet on how generous the offerings may be, especially in Premium seats.


User currently offlineairbusa322 From Australia, joined Apr 2009, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19867 times:

Tiger to launch:
SYD-ASP
SYD-CNS

MEL-ASP
MEL-MCY

Pending Announcement from the company.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19826 times:

Quoting fiscal (Reply 46):
You now only have the choice of CX via HGK

Personally, if I was travelling in business I'd go with CX over QF, and EK, anyday. But I do take your point and it does seem counter intuitive to reduce opportuities to redeem while at the same time hugely growing the domestic base from which people in PER can earn points.


User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19812 times:

Funny how this topic was talking about PER-CGK

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/...-june/story-e6frg2qc-1226571493812

Seems Garuda has beaten us to it.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 19737 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 28):
The real problem with PER, and esp PER-HKG which I've done quite a few times, is that the lack of frequency in the market by QF set it up to be a failure while an A333 was too much aircraft for a 3 x weekly service. A daily A332 properly configured, ie with say 24 Skybeds rather than 36, would be a more appropriate aircraft for PER-HKG and would actually probably be a better aircraft for a sustainable PER-SIN based purely on O&D.

The problem is that PER-HKG is really a spoke-spoke route for QF. They are almost entirely dependant on local market traffic to support their services, while CX has the strength of a massive hub and connections across Asia and North America (and Europe, though HKG is a bit out of the way from PER).

I totally support the sentiment, and do completely agree that QF isn't doing much for the PER market, but without a decent amount of feed at either end, QF was never going to be able to make money on this route, regardless of the configuration of their planes.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 45):
A 757 style aircraft (739MAX or 321NEO) would be perfect for Australian domestic.

   There are some existing 767 markets that will struggle to support the 20% seat increase the A330 brings at existing frequency and the next step down will be a 160 seat 738. I think a 200-210 seat 739/A321 would plug that gap perfectly (though I've been flamed every time I've suggested it on here before...)

That said, I think our market has very clearly shown a preference for widebodies on transcon flights, regardless of the product on board. It's probably cheaper and more profitable for QF to keep using A330s anyway, given how densely the domestic aircraft are configured and the amount of time sensitive cargo that must travel across the country each day.


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 19695 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 50):
That said, I think our market has very clearly shown a preference for widebodies on transcon flights, regardless of the product on board.

For Transcon I agree however for flights in the Golden Triangle and to Adelaide that are currently a 767, a 737-900ER or a 739MAX would seem perfect while the A332's can do tag on services at peak hours between transcons.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 50):
The problem is that PER-HKG is really a spoke-spoke route for QF.

That's true but the other side to that is that if aren't interested in a market, and 3 per week is hardly interest, you can't expect the market to respond and give you business. The other thing I would note is that QF has been saying HKG is a vitally important Asian port for them, where they will link in with partner airlines for servies to China, North Asia etc. Saying that, and then cutting off a route from a city where trade with China is more vital to the local economy than realistically most of the rest of the country, seems to be a bit disingenuous. If HKG is as important as Alan Joyce seems to say it is for QF's future, then not having PER-HKG is frankly stupid and short sighted. It's almost as dumb as not having a codeshare arrangement in place with Dragonair, and as many other Chinese Carriers as they possibly could, through HKG to build traffic which QF can capture. Not to mention that CX is up against its limit for flights into Australia and QF has successfully lobbied against a wider bilateral without more beyond rights etc for Australian Carriers.

If QF is serious about Asia, and serious about capturing Asian/Australia O&D while keeping its 65% market share of the domestic market, then pulling back International services out of a port which is responsible for a huge amount of the domestic growth that has happened and is at the end of your key transcontinental routes just seems counter productive. They may as well say you can earn your QF frequent flyer points, but the only way you can redeem them is on Jetstar services. Compare that to Virgins offering out of Perth, on SQ, EY, NZ etc and who on earth would be loyal to QF?


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 19781 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 50):
though I've been flamed every time I've suggested it on here before...

Me too   

Quoting qf002 (Reply 50):
I think our market has very clearly shown a preference for widebodies on transcon flights, regardless of the product on board

Funny you should mention that. People in the USA said that when UA started using the 757 for PremiumService... and when DL chose the 757 when they decided to make a serious go of JFK-LAX/SFO... and, oh yes, when AA ordered the A321! Beyond what the public imagination thinks that it would like, time has proven again and again that a decently kitted out narrow body (lie flat J and AVOD nose to tail) will satisfy the market 99% of the time. Another case in point is Continental's extensive use of 757s on TATL flights, including *GASP* LHR.

I'm not disagreeing with you, mind, about whether the A330 is the most appropriate aircraft for Transcon markets, merely with the sentiment that it should be used just because it is a WB.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 19723 times:

Quoting fiscal (Reply 49):
Funny how this topic was talking about PER-CGK

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/...-june/story-e6frg2qc-1226571493812

Seems Garuda has beaten us to it.

And the increase in PER flights from the Asian carriers begins.  

Garuda has been operating a triangular CGK-PER-DPS-CGK for years, and used to operate CGK-PER-CGK with a tiny 735 up until about 2008 if I remember correctly. It's great to see the direct route back.


User currently offlineAirNiugini From Australia, joined Mar 2010, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 19691 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 50):
The problem is that PER-HKG is really a spoke-spoke route for QF. They are almost entirely dependant on local market traffic to support their services

Wouldn't that be the same for the BNE to HKG route? I'm not very knowledgeable about QF's HKG aspirations, but what connections/ partners do QF now have beyond HKG? Of course they have JQ HKG coming along soon too..



Its time to fly!
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 19682 times:

Garuda's PER-CGK schedule:

GA0724 CGK-PER 1030 1550 738
GA0725 PER-CGK 1740 2115 738

The website is playing up a little, so not sure on frequency - I assume 3 x weekly.


User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 19383 times:

I dont get why everyone is banging on about markets being pulled. The fact is QF was finding parts of its network unprofitable. So they done what is necessary to fix the issue. Lets not forget they answer to share holders and the board at QF.

Why should a company like QF fly somewhere, when most people here are openly admitting that they would rather fly CX, SQ or EK? Its all about money and if you business wasnt making money in places, wouldnt you do something to fix it? If your going to blame the cost of fares for not choosing QF, then again, lets make more Australians unemployed to reduce overheads.

Why should these routes stay? Pride? To keep bleeding money? Prestige? I know as a multi million dollar business manager if something isnt making money, I am going to fix it and fix it fast.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 19279 times:

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 56):
I dont get why everyone is banging on about markets being pulled. The fact is QF was finding parts of its network unprofitable. So they done what is necessary to fix the issue. Lets not forget they answer to share holders and the board at QF.

            Very well said!

Other news...

Sydney Airport given more time for grand plan

Date: February 05 2013

The federal Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, has given ground on his demands that Sydney Airport hand over details of its long-term plans a year earlier than scheduled.

After a battle in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, the minister and the airport have reached agreement that the master plan be submitted only six months early – on December 2.

Last year Mr Albanese had sought to force Sydney Airport to place on his desk the 20-year plan by July 1, which prompted the airport to launch legal action.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/sy...20130205-2dvn9.html?skin=text-only

EK413

[Edited 2013-02-06 03:55:45]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 19021 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 57):
Last year Mr Albanese had sought to force Sydney Airport to place on his desk the 20-year plan by July 1, which prompted the airport to launch legal action.

That sounds incredibly political, as though Albanese wanted to carry it into the election (with his electorate nearby) and also get to tinker with it while still a minister.

I have quite a bit of time for Albanese, more than anyone else on the front bench, but I wish he would stop stuffing around with SYD!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 19008 times:

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 56):
I dont get why everyone is banging on about markets being pulled. The fact is QF was finding parts of its network unprofitable. So they done what is necessary to fix the issue. Lets not forget they answer to share holders and the board at QF.

The reason we're "banging on about" it is because, realistically, QF never really gave these markets the chance they needed to be successful. They say they're focused on Asian O&D, but take away ADL's only QF connection into Asia. They say they're focused on building HKG into a regional focus centre and enhancing connections both on QF metal and with partners onwards but then they take away the connection from PER, a city which amongst most others in Australia, has more of a reason to be connected to North Asia. It's not a question of prestige, pride or anything else, it's one of strategy. The old addage in the airline industry is build the route and the pax will follow. It seems that the QF model is have sub-daily routes, whinge they aren't performing (and act surprised about it), and then pull them to focus on the East Coast cities. If that what makes them money then fine, but don't forget PER has been a hugely growing domestic city for QF and with the acquisition of network and all of their intra-WA routes, they've built a lot of potential loyalty and frequent flyers. You won't maintain that loyalty if you reduce your network.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18921 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 59):
It's not a question of prestige, pride or anything else, it's one of strategy.
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 59):
PER has been a hugely growing domestic city for QF and with the acquisition of network and all of their intra-WA routes, they've built a lot of potential loyalty and frequent flyers. You won't maintain that loyalty if you reduce your network.

This is where the decision to scrap PER-HKG makes the least sense. Even if the route is loss making on an absolute basis, it is surprising that no one has recognised its value to the overall operation.

Most of you are probably aware of my penchant dislike for Virgin. In this case, however, I feel that they are a very real threat in the WA market that QF has not quite grasped the implications of.

If we assume that Virgin purchase Skywest, then that gives Virgin (and Velocity) a very big presence in the intra-WA and FIFO markets. Further, (and while I think that the A330s are largely a gimmick) I acknowledge that they have a very competitive transcon product. Add to that 4x daily flights to SIN with SQ, with onward connections to the whole of Asia, and the value proposition of Virgin vis-a-vis Qantas becomes quite compelling. All that Virgin have to do is throw around some status mathcing, and they could siphon off a big portion of Qantas passengers. Back in Sep 2011 Velocity offered to status match QFFs, my father took advantage of that to get Velocity Platinum, flew VA/DL once but that was enough to earn Silver for the next year, and they gave him Platinum for another 12 months. If they are willing to keep throwing status at people like that then they will surely win over quite a few people.

That possibly puts Qantas in a difficult position in WA. I can't help but wonder if this is a side affect of the seperation of International and Domestic: one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. International cuts a route because it is underperforming, but doesn't consider the value of the route to the network as a whole in terms of shoring up domestic customers.

What I assume happened is that QF did, in fact, consider this, and thought that their passengers would simply book with CX to Asia, and then come home to QF for domestic flights. Personally speaking, I'm BNE based and that's what I do (I went QF to HKG last year, but only because it worked out much cheaper). Assuming that PER-HKG is loss making then it is probably a better option than running at a loss, even if they earn no revenue on the ticket. It is therefore not an unreasonable proposition, but they need to educate their customers to go to Cathay to book flights, as opposed to go to qantas.com, only see connections through Sydney, and decide that QF aren't worth considering any more. Or better still, offer CX flights for sale on qantas.com. I'm fairly certain that they are able to play Flight Centre and sell seats on other carrier even without a JBA, ACCC approval etc so long as the two carriers have a ticketing agreement.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 18858 times:

Some Virgin news for a change - The ACCC is concerned that Virgin taking a majority stake in Tiger might be anti-competitive.

http://www.businessday.com.au/busine...ns-tiger--deal-20130207-2dzse.html

Interesting. There were alot of predictions that the ACCC would have an issue with this deal even after Virgin promised to hugely increase the Tiger fleet. The problem is that Tiger is the price-setter in its markets and key competition for QF/JQ and VA. I'd say VA will have to give alot of undertakings to the ACCC is this is going to get through.


User currently offlineDan23 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 18665 times:

Does anyone here know the status of 744 VH-OJT? She has been at Avalon (assumed to be for maintenance) since 7th December. This comes shortly after spending nearly 7 weeks at Avalon for cabin refit from 1st October until the 14th November.

User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3333 posts, RR: 20
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 18576 times:

Quoting airbusa322 (Reply 47):
Tiger to launch:
SYD-ASP
SYD-CNS

MEL-ASP
MEL-MCY

No real surprises there. 3 of the 4 routes are resumption of services.
the only new flight is SYD-ASP which was not operated previously


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18484 times:

Some interesting flight news for Dubai... I'm curious if the move has anything to do with QF moving their hub from Singapore to Dubai...? I understand this is Australian aviation, however this impacts the QF/KQ code share arrangements BKK-SYD...

Kenya Airlines to Introduce Dubai-Hong Kong service from 31 March 2013

In the current setup, Kenya Airlines operates its Nairobi-Hong Kong flight via Bangkok thrice weekly; the airline, however, will be adjusting its Asian operations from late March. As a result, the current Bangkok-Hong Kong service will be canceled and will be shifted to Dubai. It will still be operated thrice weekly, and the best news: KQ has local traffic rights to carry passengers solely between Hong Kong and Dubai. With this, it will be the third airline, after Emirates and Cathay Pacific, to operate Dubai-Hong Kong.

Schedules:
KQ862 NBO2245 – 0500+1DXB0600+1 – 1810+1HKG 763 135

KQ863 HKG2120 – 0130+1DXB0310+1 – 0725+1NBO 763 2
KQ863 HKG2120 – 0130+1DXB0240+1 – 0655+1NBO 763 6
KQ863 HKG2150 – 0200+1DXB0405+1 – 0820+1NBO 763 4

As a result, KQ will return to 10 weekly flights between Nairobi and Dubai from 7 weekly once again.

Qantas Northern Summer 2013 International Operation Changes as of 4 February 2013

As previously mentioned here, Qantas will end its Kangaroo route (via Singapore) and start its Falcon route (via Dubai) starting 31 March 2013. Full schedules now revealed:

Melbourne – Dubai – London-Heathrow: Daily A380 service
QF009 MEL1525 – 2325DXB0110+1 – 0540+1LHR 388 D
QF010 LHR2230 – 0815+1DXB0950+1 – 0515+2MEL 388 D

Sydney – Dubai – London-Heathrow: Daily A380 service
QF001 SYD1605 – 0035+1DXB0205+1 – 0635+1LHR 388 D
QF002 LHR2130 – 0715+1DXB0920+1 – 0510+2SYD 388 D

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 65, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18436 times:

It appears that Virgin Australia has almost completed the Business Class installation on its E190 fleet. According to Flightaware, VH-ZPM returned to Melbourne today from Christchurch with the new cabin, while VH-ZPQ replaced it in Christchurch.

E190s VH-ZPR and VH-ZPC appear the last aircraft yet to receive the new Business Class cabin.

Check the AusBT website for cabin images.


User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 18357 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 59):

Just because the routes are pulled early, doesn't mean forward bookings were crash hot, once again, the service was there, but people using the service and the profit wasn't.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 18249 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 64):

Some interesting flight news for Dubai... I'm curious if the move has anything to do with QF moving their hub from Singapore to Dubai...? I understand this is Australian aviation, however this impacts the QF/KQ code share arrangements BKK-SYD...

I've answered my own question not to worry   KQ will still operate NBO-BKK daily... it's just that the flight will be reallocated to CAN to become a daily NBO-BKK-CAN service...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 68, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17741 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 43):
I think what we really need are Australia-Indonesia Open Skies. At the moment all of the Indonesia capacity on the Australian end is entirely utilised.

Out of interest, what happened to Air North's allocation for Indonesia? Are they dormant or did they go back into the pot?

tia.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineQF762 From Australia, joined Apr 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17601 times:

Interesting to note with the QF BNE-SIN changes, the daily service is still scheduled as a 744 up until at least July with the corrected times. (I would have imagined that they would have changed the aircraft type along when they updated the route timings if they were going to do so.) I also noted that in July (but may change timings earlier) that the codeshare service with EK now has much better revised times for O&D BNE/SIN pax:

EK(QF8433) BNE 2330 - SIN 0520
EK(QF8432) SIN 1230 - BNE 2140

QF5/6 from SYD still shows a 744 too.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 70, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17571 times:

Quoting QF762 (Reply 69):
I would have imagined that they would have changed the aircraft type along when they updated the route timings if they were going to do so

I agree, especially with PER going down to 1x meaning that there will be a spare 333 floating around the system. Is anyone aware of any 333 heavy maintenance coming up? Some of the older birds must be hitting up on D checks, so maybe that is why the 747 is hanging around for longer, to cover.

Quoting QF762 (Reply 69):
EK(QF8433) BNE 2330 - SIN 0520
EK(QF8432) SIN 1230 - BNE 2140

Interesting. While those times are much better for BNE-SIN O&D, they aren't so useful for DXB connections. Clearly QF had a hand in this, but I'm not sure what the benefit for EK is. Arguably with their growing 3rd European bank the earlier departure isn't so much of a problem as it first appears, but it isn't an ideal time for many smaller European markets. I smell an A380 on EK434/435!!!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17550 times:

Quoting QF762 (Reply 69):

The reason EK has amended their schedule from a 0230L to a 2330L departure ex-Brisbane is due to RWY01/19 resurfacing works taking place overnight during the period June-September 2013. Furthermore, a number of other Airlines such as Singapore Airlines, China Airlines, Our Airline and Air Pacific have needed to amend their schedules as well.

Therefore, the schedule changes have not arisen to improve convenience for passengers but are mandated by BAC to facilitate runway works during a period where the Airport is at its quietest. From a marketing perspective, during the abovementioned period, it also means EK are unable to market their "same day arrival Europe" tag that they have had for some time (petty stuff I know).


User currently offlineQF762 From Australia, joined Apr 2008, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 17469 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 71):
The reason EK has amended their schedule from a 0230L to a 2330L departure ex-Brisbane is due to RWY01/19 resurfacing works taking place overnight during the period June-September 2013. Furthermore, a number of other Airlines such as Singapore Airlines, China Airlines, Our Airline and Air Pacific have needed to amend their schedules as well.

Oh, OK... That makes sense. And here I was thinking QF and EK were going all out with their co-operation!

I didn't realise they marketed it as same day European arrival... Good old marketing...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 70):
I agree, especially with PER going down to 1x meaning that there will be a spare 333 floating around the system. Is anyone aware of any 333 heavy maintenance coming up? Some of the older birds must be hitting up on D checks, so maybe that is why the 747 is hanging around for longer, to cover.

Yeah, but it will be sweet to keep the 744 on there if they can.


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 17486 times:

Looks to be a good year ahead for Brisbane and Melbourne Airports.

BRISBANE

Commenced or Announced

- Daily Etihad BNE-SIN-AUH services
- Daily Qantas BNE-HKG services commencing mid-year
- Daily Malaysia Airlines BNE-KUL services from September
- Fifth weekly China Southern BNE-CAN service, introduction of A330s with new F / J / W / Y product
- Garuda Indonesia back from August, with flights to DPS and CGK
- Additional 18 Hawaiian Airlines services (Mondays) BNE-HNL over coming months
- Increased VA services to ROK/NTL et al and removal of all F100 services from 10FEB13

I'd argue that it's almost a given that the following will occur in 2013:

- Philippine Airlines return, with BNE-DRW-MNL or BNE-MNL nonstop
- VA A330s on BNE-PER with introduction of next aircraft, VH-XFG
- Third and even fourth QantasLink 717 being based at Airport
- Network F100 services
- Increased VA ATR72 frequencies and/or new routes
- Emirates A380 services

I'd not be surprised if China Eastern commenced services, whether that be with dedicated (nonstop) Shanghai flights or a triangulation with Cairns (which was recently made year-round). Either way, the Airline's Country Manager has made no secret that the Airline wishes to form closer ties with Qantas and expand in Australia.

MELBOURNE

Commenced or Announced

- Thrice weekly Sichuan Airlines service from end of February
- Daily MEL-DXB-LHR service
- Fourth daily Singapore Airlines MEL-SIN service from July
- Extra Garuda Indonesia frequencies on MEL-DPS and CGK
- Additional Air New Zealand services to Queenstown
- Additional Jetstar and AirAsia services

Air India MEL-DEL services are a matter of when, not if. No doubt the recent grounding of the 787 will further compound their issues and the start date for MEL.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 70):
I agree, especially with PER going down to 1x meaning that there will be a spare 333 floating around the system. Is anyone aware of any 333 heavy maintenance coming up? Some of the older birds must be hitting up on D checks, so maybe that is why the 747 is hanging around for longer, to cover.

In summary, it appears the final Singapore schedule offering will be as follows:

SYD/SIN 0940/1600 QF081 333 D
PER/SIN 0950/1520 QF077 333 D
MEL/SIN 1000/1555 QF035 333 D
BNE/SIN 1020/1605 QF051 744 D
SYD/SIN 1310/1920 QF005 744 D


User currently offlineJQflightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 1001 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 17385 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 20):
In terms of DPS/CGK going back to QF mainline, ain't going to happen. They are tourist/VFR markets and will never be high yielding enough to support a QF service.

I think that is completely wrong, you try and get on a GA flight in J/C, further to that, the rtn price for a J/C ticket is nearly $2450 on all 3 flights daily, also GA just released that they will be coming back to the CGK-PER route, so there must me money to be made, also from late next year this give us (especially us SkyTeam members) a new, quick, way to get from PER-LGW via CGK.
QF have that many 738's, A330's and 763's sitting in perth of a night time, from about 1800 onwards, there is plenty of oportunity to cont. these planes through the night onwards to DPS/CGK and also perhaps complement the MH PER-BKI route when MH upgauge it to 4 x weekly. we still have rights into BKI thanks to AO .



Next Trip: PER-DPS-KUL-BKK-HKT-CNX-BKK-SIN-PER
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 17021 times:

Following GA, CX and MH are also announcing increases in PER services.

Quote:
Malaysia Airlines is looking to increase services between Kuala Lumpur and Perth, from its current 10 x services per week to become double daily from September 2013.

Malaysia Airlines recently re-instated MH121/120 from Kota Kinabalu to Perth is also being looked at to increase from the current 1 x weekly flight to 4 x weekly from August 2013.

Cathay Pacific Airways is also evaluating increasing its flights from Hong Kong to Perth, from its current 10 x weekly flights, increasing to become double daily from July 2013.

Source


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 76, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 16700 times:

Sydney bound flights have been placed in holding patterns with SQ211, SQ7286 circling in the outer west... The QF44 was holding but has landed and so was Malaysian Airlines...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16861 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 76):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 76):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 76):
ydney bound flights have been placed in holding patterns with SQ211, SQ7286 circling in the outer west... The QF44 was holding but has landed and so was Malaysi

same happening in the south, the standard doughnuts on ac coming in from MEL, holding patterns to the west pf Canberra. Also note QF2904, Antarctic charter, on track for MEL, just coming over the coast now, flight orig SYD this morning.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 78, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16868 times:

Quoting TN486 (Reply 77):
same happening in the south, the standard doughnuts on ac coming in from MEL, holding patterns to the west pf Canberra. Also note QF2904, Antarctic charter, on track for MEL, just coming over the coast now, flight orig SYD this morning.

Is MEL experiencing any thunderstorms too...?

VA883, CX139, AC33 in holding patterns at the moment...

EK413

[Edited 2013-02-10 01:30:46]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16800 times:

MEL weather is cool but fine. I thought the current delays into SYD were due to the normal sunday night "quagmire". Please send some of the rain south, we need it.


remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently onlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16775 times:

Quoting TN486 (Reply 79):
I thought the current delays into SYD were due to the normal sunday night "quagmire". Please send some of the rain south, we need it.

A few thunderstorms around town tonight.



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 81, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16782 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 80):
Quoting TN486 (Reply 79):
I thought the current delays into SYD were due to the normal sunday night "quagmire". Please send some of the rain south, we need it.

A few thunderstorms around town tonight.

We going to hear about it in the news tomorrow "Sydney Airport experienced lengthy delays due to thunderstorms, decision on 2nd airport top priority"...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1376 posts, RR: 4
Reply 82, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16645 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 32):
We've even got PR launching PER-DRW-MNL with an A320 now.

I have just recently relocated from the US to Darwin to work on the Ichthys LNG project. With the number of Filipinos who work here I'm sure this flight will do well.

Question I have here. With there being 4000 workers on this project who will FIFO to various parts of Australia, does Qantas, Virgin or Jetstar have any plans to increase flights to DRW to support this demand? There will potentially be 1200-1400 folks flying in and out every Sunday, who will be there to accommodate these weekend surges? Any ideas?

Thanks..


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 83, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16474 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 82):
There will potentially be 1200-1400 folks flying in and out every Sunday, who will be there to accommodate these weekend surges?

Most if not all of that demand will be met by charter flights on behalf of the mining companies, not regular scheduled services. QF, VA and various subsidiaries/partners are all involved.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1376 posts, RR: 4
Reply 84, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16340 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 83):
Most if not all of that demand will be met by charter flights on behalf of the mining companies, not regular scheduled services. QF, VA and various subsidiaries/partners are all involved.

Certainly makes sense from a cost standpoint, as it looks like all return fares from DRW are astronomical..


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 16184 times:

JQ will commence 4x weekly SYD-AYQ services in JUN13, replacing the existing daily QF 737-800 service.

Schedule:

SYD/AYQ 1030/1335 JQ660 Tue/Thu/Fri/Sun
AYQ/SYD 1420/1745 JQ661 Tue/Thu/Fri/Sun

Source

This leaves Virgin Australia as the only carrier offering Business Class to AYQ.


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16148 times:

Qantas will also reportedly cancel its thrice weekly CBR-DRW service later this year..

User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 87, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15429 times:

As result of the impending EK-QF tie up, QF has changed it baggage policy from the piece concept to the weight concept. In addition both EK and QF have update their frequent flyer programs.

A whole list of changes can be found here.
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...-flyer-changes-20130212-2eabp.html

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...requent-flyers-20130212-2eabo.html


User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 14973 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 87):
In addition both EK and QF have update their frequent flyer programs

Pay Plus Points and Any Flight award redemptions are available now, but us poor Classic Awards seekers must wait until after March 31 to see what additional seats (if any) will be available for us to pick up. In the past a premium seat all the way to Europe was nigh on impossible for PER FF's, but more accessible from the old hubs.

With three EK flights a day out of PER, will it be any better?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6438 posts, RR: 38
Reply 89, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14607 times:

QF's SYD-AYQ flight is going to be a JQ flight from June.. Oh well, I guess there's still a way to get there on QF via the 717s through PER or DRW.


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinebjwonline From UK - England, joined Mar 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14376 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 89):
Oh well, I guess there's still a way to get there on QF via the 717s through PER or DRW.

There are no DRW-AYQ or PER-AYQ flights. CNS is the only other destination from AYQ which is serviced by QantasLink's B717.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6438 posts, RR: 38
Reply 91, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14261 times:

Quoting bjwonline (Reply 90):

Whoops, mixing myself up with ASP..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinevheca From Australia, joined May 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

Can anyone shed some light on what I would deem to be a diversion last night?

I am located at East Sale and we have a number of MEL-NZ flights fly over.

Last night I watched one of these flights pass over, heading east at about 1850, then suddenly banking 90 degrees and headed north. I have not witnessed this before and was curious to know if anyone could shed some light?

Thanks

VHECA



Types Flown on - 312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,742,743,74C,752,762,AB4,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 93, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13923 times:

I know that this is not strictly Australian related, but with US-AA finally happening I was considering what it could mean for QF. The obvious answer is nothing, with US Airways' limited presence in LAX and DFW meaning that it is only convenient for PHL, CLT, PHX and DCA.

Nonetheless, this helps give QF a truly strong east coast presence. For me personally, AA's lack of penetration in the Mid Atlantic is a real pain, and this has now been rectified. Sure, we are talking a small number of people per day, but I know people who fly DL/VA for Delta's superior connectivity in this region.

It also goes the other way: US codeshares with UA on SYD-LAX/SFO, and while I don't know how many people they actually feed, this traffic will obviously flowing to QF in the future.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 94, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13877 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 93):
I know that this is not strictly Australian related, but with US-AA finally happening I was considering what it could mean for QF.

One far less obvious area is personal relationships between QF & the merged AA. As I read it most of the new executive will be ex US rather than AA. While there are always personal changes in any company, if there is a wholesale turn over of AA people this could harm the working relationship developed over the last couple of decades or so. Weather this would be a smaller or larger problem for QF I have no idea.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13860 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 94):
if there is a wholesale turn over of AA people this could harm the working relationship developed over the last couple of decades or so. Weather this would be a smaller or larger problem for QF I have no idea.

Interesting point, and one I'd overlooked. While the senior management team seems to be coming from US, it is speculated on other threads that there might not be many lower managers who decide to move from PHX to DFW. This happened with UA, where - although the senior leadership is ex-CO - a lot of people left CO rather than move to ORD, due to lifestyle/kids schools/partners careers etc. Therefore, the actual day-to-day management in the middle ranks could very well end up being largely unchanged.

Also, Horton is staying on as Chairman, and AA will have 3 other seats on the board. I think that they will be very careful to make sure that the boys from Arizona play nicely, especially with IAG, LATAM and JAL (and, yes, QF)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinezkokq From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 13768 times:

Dixon had a tongue and cheek comment targeted at Alan Joyce and actually agreeing with him on something today, regarding the Aussie dollar high now being the norm at his keynote speech today.

Some interesting capacity increases for the growth of inbound tourism. Target was in the 5%PA but achieving 7%PA currently for a 50% increase over the decade.


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 97, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13450 times:

Quoting vheca (Reply 92):
Can anyone shed some light on what I would deem to be a diversion last night?

I am located at East Sale and we have a number of MEL-NZ flights fly over.

Last night I watched one of these flights pass over, heading east at about 1850, then suddenly banking 90 degrees and headed north. I have not witnessed this before and was curious to know if anyone could shed some light?

I did a historical search on Flightradar24. Around about the time you mentioned traffic around MEL was pretty hectic. Flights going north were departing from runway 16, turning left and proceeding eastwards and about the midpoint between maffra and sale they were turning north heading for their destinations. Flights involved included VOS875, 873, 287, 347 and QF 458 (incidentally, this one went closest to Sale before turning north, so maybe this is the one you saw). The routing given these ac was quite unusual, and as you intimated, not a normal occurrence. Cheers.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3078 posts, RR: 1
Reply 98, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12945 times:

Hey, does anybody know the repaint schedule for Virgin? Are they just repainting during heavy maintenance?

Of all VA aircraft, the only ones I can think of that have been repainted are VH-VUF, VH-VUG and VH-VPH.

The rest of the aircraft in the new scheme (which isn't that new anymore) have either been delivered in the scheme or delivered in all white (or GC suns scheme) during the transition.

Why isn't VA doing more about it. The old livery still makes VA appear as an LCC. This isn't just a new livery, it is a whole new identity as a whole different airline, I expected repaints to happen quite a bit faster.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12745 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 98):
Of all VA aircraft, the only ones I can think of that have been repainted are VH-VUF, VH-VUG and VH-VPH.

and also a 190 VH ZPQ. Repainted from the AFL livery.

[Edited 2013-02-17 22:03:26]


remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 100, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12503 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 98):
Hey, does anybody know the repaint schedule for Virgin? Are they just repainting during heavy maintenance?

777-300ER

VH-VPD
VH-VPH
VH-VOZ (work in progress)

737-700

VH-VBY

737-800 (AU)

VH-VOK
VH-VOQ
VH-VUF
VH-VUG
VH-VUY
VH-VUZ

737-800 (NZ)

ZK-PBA
ZK-PBB
ZK-PBF (Virgin Samoa)
ZK-PBJ

E190-100

VH-ZPQ
VH-ZPR
VH-ZPT

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 98):
Why isn't VA doing more about it. The old livery still makes VA appear as an LCC. This isn't just a new livery, it is a whole new identity as a whole different airline, I expected repaints to happen quite a bit faster.

Repaints require an Aircraft to be out of service for an extended period of time and it isn't always operationally possible and feasible (read cost prohibitive) to take them out one after the other for repaints.


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 101, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12529 times:

It appears Philippine Airlines may be about to announce their long-awaited flights to Brisbane, Darwin and Perth. There's reportedly been an ad running in local Filippino newspapers, with images of the three cities and directing readers to their website for more information.

As of 18FEB the ports are not showing within the PR booking engine.

[Edited 2013-02-18 01:46:32]

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 102, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12655 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 101):
It appears Philippine Airlines may be about to announce their long-awaited flights to Brisbane, Darwin and Perth. There's reportedly been an ad running in local Filippino newspapers, with images of the three cities and directing readers to their website for more information.


EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinevheca From Australia, joined May 2007, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 103, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12261 times:

Quoting TN486 (Reply 97):
I did a historical search on Flightradar24. Around about the time you mentioned traffic around MEL was pretty hectic. Flights going north were departing from runway 16, turning left and proceeding eastwards and about the midpoint between maffra and sale they were turning north heading for their destinations. Flights involved included VOS875, 873, 287, 347 and QF 458 (incidentally, this one went closest to Sale before turning north, so maybe this is the one you saw). The routing given these ac was quite unusual, and as you intimated, not a normal occurrence. Cheers.

Thank you, Sir.

Have been looking skyward since to see if patterns had returned to normal (and they have).

Cheers

Vheca



Types Flown on - 312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,742,743,74C,752,762,AB4,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11997 times:

Very interested to see the schedule for PR's new services!

User currently offlineQFBA From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11974 times:

Does anyone know any new routes VA have on the rador from Brisbane?

I was talking today to a rep who indicated they're about make an announcement and questioned if I knew.

Reason she asked is usually I question her about things I read on hear. It's killing me that I don't ow what she's talking about.

Her comment indicated new registrations?

Your helps really appreciated.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 106, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11930 times:

Singapore Airlines May 2013 Australia Service Reduction

As per 19FEB13 GDS timetable and inventory display, Singapore Airlines is reducing Australia operation during the month of May 2013, for 3-week period. Affected routes as follow.

Singapore – Brisbane 07MAY13 – 21MAY13 SQ255/256 reduced from daily to 6 weekly (Day x2), overall service reduced from 21 to 20 weekly
Singapore – Melbourne 07MAY13 – 26MAY13 SQ237/238 reduced from daily to 4 weekly (Day x123 from SIN, Day x234 from MEL), overall service reduced from 21 to 18 weekly
Singapore – Sydney 07MAY13 – 24MAY13 SQ241/242 reduced from daily to 5 weekly (Day x23), overall service reduced from 28 to 26 weekly. SQ241/242 also cancelled on 09MAY13

http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/19/sq-australia-may13/

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 107, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11709 times:

Quoting QFBA (Reply 105):

I think it will perhaps be the announcement of new ATR routes or increased frequencies on existing routes (Emerald, Rockhampton et al - Virgin Australia/Skywest is expected to have 12 ATRs come June 2013) and/or the introduction of A330s on Brisbane-Perth services (or making all weekday Sydney-Perth services A330s).

Air Pacific

Airlineroute is reporting that Air Pacific, soon to be Fiji Airways is planning to introduce A330s on select Brisbane and Melbourne services over the coming months (i.e. temporary, at least initially). Furthermore, Sydney is expected to begin receiving its first A330 services from June (these appear to be permanent A330 services).

Brisbane will see up to 6 weekly A330 services during the period 21APR13 to 31JUL13, with the 747-400 also operating select services. Melbourne will see up to 2 weekly A330 services during the period 03AUG13 to 27AUG13.

Scoot

The Airline appears to be selling seat only fares from the Gold Coast and Sydney to Singapore for as low as $99 one way over the coming months.

Brisbane Airport - Shopping Experience Upgrade

Quote:
BAC calls for Expression of Interest for Duty Free Concession

12 February 2013

Brisbane Airport Corporation (BAC) is calling for Expressions of Interest (EOI) for a new seven year Duty Free contract at the International Terminal. The new Duty Free arrangements are part of a major redevelopment of the Brisbane International Terminal planned for the coming years.

Appropriately experienced Duty Free operators who wish to participate in the core Duty Free Request for Proposal process will be asked to qualify by providing the information requested in the EOI documentation.

Continues...

Article source

Some renders of the planned redevelopment - looks fantastic might I add and very Singapore-Changi-erish!






Images - Source

And the not so good news..

Quote:
Stand-off between Brisbane Airport owners and airlines threatens delays to new runway

BRISBANE Airport is set to halt work on a desperately needed new runway, creating further delays for frustrated passengers and jeopardising the state's economic growth.

The long-awaited $1.3 billion project is being held ransom in a stand-off between the airport's private owners and the airlines.

The parallel runway, which was due to be completed in 2020, is the intended long-term solution to growing flight congestion which made the airport the country's worst for arrival times in December.

Brisbane Airport Corporation, which rakes in $9 million a week in revenue but finished the last financial year $54 million in the red, wants airlines to fund a quarter of the runway cost through increased passenger charges over the eight-year development period. But they refuse.

No other airport has ever demanded upfront payment of new infrastructure over such a long period, with Perth Airport ditching its plan to pre-charge airlines for a third runway earlier this year.

The deadlock in Brisbane threatens to stall construction of the 3.3km runway.

About $50 million worth of first-phase site works, started last August, are due to be completed by the end of May.

Continues...

Article source

[Edited 2013-02-19 05:25:07]

User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 471 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11484 times:

Another AN 124F departed BNE again this morning.This is the 10th in the past 5 months .

Alliance Airlines next Fokker 70 VH-QQW has commenced it's delivery flight to Brissie.



tourismman
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 109, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11208 times:

Just an an observation - VH OJS (a 744) has just arrived at Avalon from Sydney - presume maintenance.


remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 110, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11123 times:

Air Canada - Future Australian Services

Quote:
Air Canada has warned Australia not to expect its new premium economy seats any time soon, as Brisbane emerged as the surprise next possible local port for the carrier.

-----

As it stands, Air Canada will receive around a dozen 787s within 12-24 months of the first delivery early next year. That will pave the way for route expansion which could involve another Australian city, he said.

While Melbourne has been described as the "natural" second local port, Morin flagged Brisbane as a possible superior option given the resources links between Queensland and Canada.

"Brisbane could be a really nice option for us," he said. "Mid to long term a second Australian destination is an absolute possibility."

Continues...


Travel Today - News Article


User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10854 times:

BAC's Managing director and CEO's retort today to the criticism they have faced over the funding for the new runway.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/o...model/story-e6frerc6-1226582239213


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 112, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10767 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 110):

Honestly, I'm not surprised. MEL definitely has more traffic right now, but - from my understanding - that is mostly outbound from Australia. Between inbound tourism and resources traffic BNE-YYC, I wouldn't fall over with shock if BNE came first.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 113, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10596 times:

Quoting Dan23 (Reply 62):
Does anyone here know the status of 744 VH-OJT?

She is about to head across the Pacific as the QF11 which was rescheduled as a 18:30 departure...

http://fr24.com/QFA11

EK413

[Edited 2013-02-21 00:13:11]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinevhqpa From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1478 posts, RR: 1
Reply 114, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10389 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 110):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 112):

It's also notable that the current bilateral agreement between Australia and Canada restricts the designated Canadian airline to Sydney and one additional port. Unless the bilateral is changed should Canada choose Brisbane as their additional port they can't also serve Melbourne unless they nominate Melbourne in favour of Brisbane. Similarly the designated Australian airline is restricted to Vancouver and one additional port.

The Bilateral can be read here link



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 115, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10374 times:

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 114):
It's also notable that the current bilateral agreement between Australia and Canada restricts the designated Canadian airline to Sydney and one additional port.

True, BUT Australia COULD allow extra bilateral flights to a third city. Cue the Victorian & Queensland pollies.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10250 times:

Interesting to see that now QF is reducing PER-SIN to daily, JQ/3K is increasing their daily PER-SIN with a variation of 11-13 weekly services from April.

3K133 SIN0210 – 0730PER 320 x37
3K131 SIN1750 – 2310PER 320 D

3K132 PER0005 – 0535SIN 320 D
3K134 PER0810 – 1345SIN 320 x37

01APR13 – 04MAY13 12 weekly (3K133/134 on Day x37)
24JUN13 – 31JUL13 13 weekly (3K133/134 on Day x7)
02AUG13 – 16SEP13 11 weekly (3K133/134 on Day x247)
17SEP13 – 26OCT13 13 weekly (3K133/134 on Day x7)

Source


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 117, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9952 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I have a couple of questions about the Qantas/Emirates code share, both stemming from the list in this link. They may have been asked and answered here, but I may not have been paying attention:

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/22/qfek-s13codeshare-update2/

The list of codeshare cities seems quite extensive already, but I am interested that Dubai stopovers are not allowed for some European cities - AMS, LYS, MXP, NCE, CGD and FCO - at least according to this list.

I assume it has to do with the European bilaterals, but I thought Qantas had rights to some of them - FCO, eg and AMS. Or is it an Emirates/Dubai thing?

I'm slightly surprised that some of the second tier cities are on the list - but others are not. AMM is included, but BEY is not. Any clues as to when (and if) they might kick in, or is the next batch dependant on the ACCC?

Or am I being (a) impatient or (b) unrealistic?

TIA

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-21 20:55:08]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 118, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9931 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 117):
I assume it has to do with the European bilaterals, but I thought Qantas had rights to some of them - FCO, eg and AMS. Or is it an Emirates/Dubai thing?

Mariner
I think this means stopover ie a stop of more than 24 hours, are not allowed. I think you can do a same day connection to those cities, otherwise why would they be in the list at all?
As to why such a restriction my guess is it is to do with the Australia/European country bi-lateral. Some of them were very specific about what stopovers were allowed, while some were very general.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 119, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9916 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 115):
True, BUT Australia COULD allow extra bilateral flights to a third city. Cue the Victorian & Queensland pollies.

LOL can you imagine Qantas letting them get away with that? If the Canadians want access beyond the current treaty, they'll have to trade for it. Cue a QF demand for YVR and YYZ access via Los Angeles, which they currently are not allowed to fly through as a stopover point, and you'll have a dead negotiation.

Quoting mariner (Reply 117):
Or am I being (a) impatient or (b) unrealistic?

I think you're also being a tad impatient. There are still plenty of timetable amendments and loads to be done to fully implement the alliance. Some of these probably won't be completed until after the ACCC has finalised their decision in late March.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 120, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9796 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 119):
I think you're also being a tad impatient. There are still plenty of timetable amendments and loads to be done to fully implement the alliance. Some of these probably won't be completed until after the ACCC has finalised their decision in late March.

Hopefully the decision is made in early March as opposed to late March therefore allowing QF/EK to make the necessary adjustments to the timetable...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 121, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9772 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 119):
LOL can you imagine Qantas letting them get away with that?

sorry Sydscott, despite what many people think the days when QF effectively controlled this are long gone. Yes they have influence, the Federal Treasury department has more and other agencies & pollies also have influence. You only have to look at the fact that EK has rights to Australia. They have these rights because the Treasury depart (which includes the ACCC) wanted more competition, there is absolutely no bi-lateral reason to allow EK access to the Australian market.
Not saying it would happen with Canada, but it could.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 122, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9768 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 119):
Cue a QF demand for YVR and YYZ access via Los Angeles, which they currently are not allowed to fly through as a stopover point, and you'll have a dead negotiation.

But - and let's be realistic here - would QF actually fly LAX-YYZ?

I credit the Government to see straight through such a request, and consider the economic benefit of greater access to Canada over the wishes of a toddler throwing a tantrum



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 123, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9705 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting gemuser (Reply 118):
I think this means stopover ie a stop of more than 24 hours, are not allowed. I think you can do a same day connection to those cities, otherwise why would they be in the list at all?

Oh, sure - I assumed you can make a straight connection at DXB.

I'm still scratching my head a wee bit about this and now see that I left CAI off that list - no vacation in DXB if you're flying to Egypt.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 119):
I think you're also being a tad impatient. There are still plenty of timetable amendments and loads to be done to fully implement the alliance.

A bitty impatient, sure. But it is also an attempt to look for any intellectual underpinnings of this - if there are any - or if it is simple scheduling pragmatism.

The Lebanese community in Australia (100,000 plus) is much larger than the Jordanian community (5000 or so), so theoretically, BEY should be on the list before AMM.

Since it isn't I assume it is just schedule pragmatism. And since the website freaks out if I try for SYD-AMM but allows SYD-BEY I guess there's some way to go.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 124, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9427 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 117):
The list of codeshare cities seems quite extensive already, but I am interested that Dubai stopovers are not allowed for some European cities - AMS, LYS, MXP, NCE, CGD and FCO - at least according to this list.

another one I haven't seen on the list which EK does fly to is Malta. Despite its small size I would have thought QF would have put a code share on the flight.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 125, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 9291 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 124):
another one I haven't seen on the list which EK does fly to is Malta. Despite its small size I would have thought QF would have put a code share on the flight.

Am I correct in recalling that QF itself flew to Malta for a brief period way, way back?



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5718 posts, RR: 6
Reply 126, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9127 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 125):
Am I correct in recalling that QF itself flew to Malta for a brief period way, way back?

I don't think so, at least as a scheduled service, but migrant charters on behalf of the Dept of Immigration ring a bell, certainly from Italy so maybe Malta as well. I know QF had approval for a 210 (or there about) interior for thier B707-338Cs specifically for immigration charters. I don't know if it was ever fitted.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 127, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9083 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 121):
sorry Sydscott, despite what many people think the days when QF effectively controlled this are long gone

Not really. I suggest you look at what has happened between Hong Kong and Australia as a template for what Australia will ask for. Essentially CX & Hong Kong Airlines want more Australia frequencies because they're almost at their cap. Australia said sure, but we want more beyond rights. The Hong Kong Government hasn't said no, but they haven't said yes either. So negotiations have stalled.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 121):
You only have to look at the fact that EK has rights to Australia. They have these rights because the Treasury depart (which includes the ACCC) wanted more competition, there is absolutely no bi-lateral reason to allow EK access to the Australian market.

EK has plenty of rights to Australia because, while initially they opposed them, when QF had a crack at Air New Zealand a few years ago, the ACCC and the Government in general was concerned about the Tasman. Cue EK who wanted access to the market and QF had their problem solved. Alas the NZ/QF deal didn't go through. The real question is what will happen when the UAE, Qater etc want more frequencies than what they currently have especially when you consider the current usage of rights from the Australian side.

Trust me, if Air Canada wants access to a port they don't currently have access to, or more frequencies than they currently are allowed, the Australian Government will demand expanded rights in return. There will be a trade or there won't be a deal.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 122):
But - and let's be realistic here - would QF actually fly LAX-YYZ?

To be honest, it's beside the point whether or not QF or VA use the rights. But it's about having access to them in future if they wanted to.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 122):
I credit the Government to see straight through such a request, and consider the economic benefit of greater access to Canada over the wishes of a toddler throwing a tantrum

Again, the entire history of Australia's recent air rights negotiations has always been about liberalisation of markets and beyond rights. I don't see any reason why the Government should, or would, change that policy in this case. It's not about having an airline actually use the rights, it's about quid pro quo. If you, Canada, want more rights for Air Canada then what are you going to give Australia that QF and VA can use? If the answer is nothing, then I'd fully expect our Government to say no. The Canada/Australia bilateral is extremely restrictive in frequencies and ports so any deal which leads to liberalisation should be embraced but it needs to work for both parties, not just for one.


User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9020 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 127):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 122):
But - and let's be realistic here - would QF actually fly LAX-YYZ?

To be honest, it's beside the point whether or not QF or VA use the rights. But it's about having access to them in future if they wanted to.

Sounds like a deal that the Canadians couldn't say no to though - they get what they want in exchange for something we don't really want, but might want in the future. Possibly.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 129, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8979 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 122):
But - and let's be realistic here - would QF actually fly LAX-YYZ?

As a non-stop? I can't imagine it would be a huge market.

We know they had the bright idea to fly it through LAX - as YYZ-LAX-SYD - using a broadminded assessment of the Open Skies agreement between Canada and the US. That got stomped on - (hellooooo, Qantas?).

Air NZ's attempt to tie up with Air Canada on SYD-YYC - not so very long ago - was stomped on, too. I thought the ACCC was a bit precious about that, but I assume that Qantas was in the thinking.

It may no longer be that if Qantas sneezes Canberra catches a cold, but however objective they may now claim to be, I think there is still True Blue Aussie blood beating in the bureaucratic heart.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 130, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

I just landed in SYD on QF865 after a 3 hour delay.
2 things that caught my attention when we landed.

1. There are 2 UA 747s parked overnight. One was parked in a maintenance hanger and the other over on the remote stands. Anyone know what has caused this?

2. I noticed in one of the maintenance hangers that there was a QF 737 with large titles painted on the side reading "Bring it on" And what I thought to be boxing gloves on the Roo. I haven't heard anything about it. Any further info?

Cheers.



Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 929 posts, RR: 2
Reply 131, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8614 times:

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 130):
. There are 2 UA 747s parked overnight. One was parked in a maintenance hanger and the other over on the remote stands. Anyone know what has caused this?

Flt 840 arrived from MEL at 1435. It was due to dep for LAX at around 1600, however it was cancelled. That was the one, I suspect, that was in maint when you arrived.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 132, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8438 times:

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 130):
1. There are 2 UA 747s parked overnight. One was parked in a maintenance hanger and the other over on the remote stands. Anyone know what has caused this?

Just another day & another UA flight cancellation... A UA flight was cancelled on Friday too...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 133, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 129):
We know they had the bright idea to fly it through LAX - as YYZ-LAX-SYD - using a broadminded assessment of the Open Skies agreement between Canada and the US. That got stomped on - (hellooooo, Qantas?).

That got stomped on because LAX isn't a stopover point in the Canada/Australia bilateral, it's only SFO or HNL that is. Once AC figured out they could use the 77L to go from YVR direct, the whole thing was dropped anyway.

Quoting mariner (Reply 129):
Air NZ's attempt to tie up with Air Canada on SYD-YYC - not so very long ago - was stomped on, too. I thought the ACCC was a bit precious about that, but I assume that Qantas was in the thinking.

That was one where I think NZ and AC should have taken the ACCC to court to get a ruling in their favour. Fundamentally there is not much difference between an arrangement between AC & NZ to what currently exists between QF & SA to JNB. It could have been the form of the proposal that the ACCC objected to but I still think they should have pursued it more rigorously.


User currently offlineflylonghaul From Australia, joined Feb 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8211 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 132):

So then I'm guessing that the cancelled UA flight from Friday is still sitting in SYD then.
That would answer why there were 2 aircraft overnighting.



Flying for Pleasure
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 133):
That got stomped on because LAX isn't a stopover point in the Canada/Australia bilateral, it's only SFO or HNL that is. Once AC figured out they could use the 77L to go from YVR direct, the whole thing was dropped anyway.

SYD-SFO-YYZ isn't a huge deviation from SYD-LAX-YYZ. Only 12nm is the difference great circle. I'm sure the reason they didn't fly this is because of a lack of demand vs just flying on AA LAX-YYZ or with AC. Yes, there is also connections from BNE and MEL, but still, there needs to be enough demand.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 136, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8155 times:

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 134):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 132):

So then I'm guessing that the cancelled UA flight from Friday is still sitting in SYD then.
That would answer why there were 2 aircraft overnighting.

Certainly would answer the question... Guess who picked up the loyal UA passengers... QF  

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8137 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 135):
SYD-SFO-YYZ isn't a huge deviation from SYD-LAX-YYZ. Only 12nm is the difference great circle. I'm sure the reason they didn't fly this is because of a lack of demand

The bilateral only allows SFO/HNL as a connection to Canada. AC has rights to SYD via SFO/HNL.



John@SFO
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 138, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8078 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 135):
Only 12nm is the difference great circle. I'm sure the reason they didn't fly this is because of a lack of demand vs just flying on AA LAX-YYZ or with AC.

At one point QF wanted to use LAX as a stopover point into Canada. The Canadians said no because the treaty says SFO or HNL. (Hence QF doing SYD-SFO-YVR for a few years) Then AC wanted to do YYZ-LAX-SYD because of the ability to pick up some pax at LAX and compete against what was then a duopoly. The Australian side said no because the treaty diesn't include LAX. So AC did YVR-SYD direct instead and the issue stalled from there.

Again, if the Canadians approach Australia because AC wants more rights, you can expect Australia to ask for LAX to be included as a stopover point in the treaty and for increased rights for Australian carriers. Neither of the carriers will immediately use those rights, and why would AC want to compete with UA on LAX-SYD, but having the option for both sides would be nice.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 139, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7991 times:

Anyone able to tell me how much time I should give myself for a connecting flight from JFK to IAH...
I'm flying QF107 LAX to JFK & since the 2 carriers don't operate from the same terminals I wanna give myself time to get to my connecting flight without the need to put on my running shoes...
I never flown to the states therefore any details would be appreciated...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2084 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7853 times:

JFK? Allow plenty of time- 2 hours at least.

My only comment (not that I should judge) is LAX-JFK-IAH is not the greatest idea- a lot of unnecessary travelling/backtracking. I would have bought a LAX-IAH/HOU ticket instead.


User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7814 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 138):
why would AC want to compete with UA on LAX-SYD

Perhaps because they believe they could make money on it? Just because there is another *A carrier on the route doesn't mean they aren't allowed to compete directly with them on the route.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 138):
(Hence QF doing SYD-SFO-YVR for a few years)

SFO was the most logical point to operate that tag on from. Far closer to YVR than LAX.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 142, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 140):

JFK? Allow plenty of time- 2 hours at least.

My only comment (not that I should judge) is LAX-JFK-IAH is not the greatest idea- a lot of unnecessary travelling/backtracking. I would have bought a LAX-IAH/HOU ticket instead.

Cheers...

I know my routing involves backtracking but its by choice as I want to fly QF... My connecting flight in JFK is on DL...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 143, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7312 times:

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 130):
2. I noticed in one of the maintenance hangers that there was a QF 737 with large titles painted on the side reading "Bring it on" And what I thought to be boxing gloves on the Roo. I haven't heard anything about it. Any further info?

This would answer your question concerning the QF B738 VH-VXG in the hangers sporting the "Bring it On" banner...

http://www.rugby.com.au/News/NewsArt...d/1699/ArticleID/8467/Default.aspx

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151496573920731&set=a.10151496573555731.540277.20262130730&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151496573555731.540277.20262130730&type=1

EK413

[Edited 2013-02-24 23:50:05]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 144, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7252 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 140):
JFK? Allow plenty of time- 2 hours at least.

If you are connecting QF-DL then I would allow at least 3 hours. QF won't through check you luggage, so you will have to pick it up and change terminals. That could easily take an hour. That leaves you two, which at JFK in the evening could well be cutting it fine!

Hopefully everything will be fine, but when things go wrong at JFK then they go wrong on a truly epic scale!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 145, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 144):

The QF107 arrives into JFK 1635 & my connecting flight DL4127 departs 1955... I have a gutt feeling I'm really pushing it...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 146, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7125 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 145):
I have a gutt feeling I'm really pushing it...

At 3h20 you should be OK.

Your best bet is to get the AirTrain from Terminal 7 to Terminal 2/3. It runs about every 5 minutes off the top of my head, and is free between the terminals. I hate to state the obvious but make sure you are on the right train! If you get it wrong you will have a nice long ride to Howard Beach or Jamaica Subway stations, and while I don't want to insult your intelligence there were a lot of people confused about which train they should be on when I was there in December.

Assuming that this is a non-issue then you will make the transfer to 2/3 relatively easily. That could be when the fun begins... Just to give you an example, when I was at EWR last (I know, different airport, but still NYC, and JFK is - frankly - worse) I got to the airport 1h10m before my flight due to a mix-up getting to the airport. As QFF I get AA "Priority AAcess" (yes, they do spell it with two As!) - First Class check-in and priority security screening. Without that there is absolutely no way in hell that I would have ever made my flight. The line for economy check-in was pretty horrendous (note that this is only the line to use a self-serve machine) and as for the queue for security...

On the same day my girlfriend flew out of JFK (on DL, so same terminal) and her airport experience was even worse: the baggage system was down so they were literally carrying cases from the ticketing couter down stairs to be sorted. Now, anywhere else in the world you would shrug that and say you got a bad day. A cynical New Yorker accustomed to the delights of JFK/EWR/LGA on the other hand will wonder what it will be next time.

Please understand that I'm not trying to scare you, as I said at the outset you should be fine. Nontheless it is worth being aware that things may well not go smoothly.

[Edited 2013-02-25 01:38:17]


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently onlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 147, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7119 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 142):
I know my routing involves backtracking but its by choice as I want to fly QF

Could you have done SYD-DFW and then done a land transfer to IAH/Houston (if you wanted to fly QF)? Or was the LAX-JFK-IAH option still cheaper?



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 148, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7028 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 146):

Thanks for scaring the crap outta me! Lol 
Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 147):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 142):
I know my routing involves backtracking but its by choice as I want to fly QF

Could you have done SYD-DFW and then done a land transfer to IAH/Houston (if you wanted to fly QF)? Or was the LAX-JFK-IAH option still cheaper?

It came down to class I wanted to travel... J/C from SYD-LAX-JFK...

To go via DFW it would've meant Y/C from DFW to IAH... Plus I wanna experience the A380 on the return leg 

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently onlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6845 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 148):
To go via DFW it would've meant Y/C from DFW to IAH... Plus I wanna experience the A380 on the return leg

Gotcha, if you're flying J instead of Y, then understand the routing. Plus you're getting more airlines/airline types into your itinerary which I understand as well  

I once flew to Tanzania (Kilimanjaro) using the following routing: SYD-HKG-DXB-ADD-MBA-JRO, there were other more direct (albeit a little bit more expensive routings) but chose the one which gave me three different airlines and 2 new airports, Typical A.nutter eh  



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 150, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 6726 times:

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 149):
I once flew to Tanzania (Kilimanjaro) using the following routing: SYD-HKG-DXB-ADD-MBA-JRO, there were other more direct (albeit a little bit more expensive routings) but chose the one which gave me three different airlines and 2 new airports, Typical A.nutter eh

You hit the nail in the head... It's just another day in an A.netters world...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 689 posts, RR: 2
Reply 151, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Virgin Australia has just announced it will introduce the A330 on Brisbane-Perth flights from May, with double daily weekday services (0845 and 2015 departures ex-Brisbane).

Furthermore, the Airline has announced it will start 3 daily weekday services to Moranbah from Brisbane from April and will also start Brisbane-Bundaberg services once daily from May. All services will be operated by ATRs.

Interestingly, Virgin Australia has announced it will offer a complimentary food and beverage service on flights over 2hrs 45mins from April and expects to have Wireless IFE rolled out on 80 aircraft by the end of 2013.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 152, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6620 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 151):
3 daily weekday services to Moranbah from Brisbane from April

Interesting route choice, clearly to do with mining. I was thinking that 3x daily sounded quite a high frequency, but then I saw that QF operate up to 10 flights per day on BNE-MOV!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 471 posts, RR: 1
Reply 153, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6507 times:

They now have to wait till the Transport authority deregulates Roma and there will be at least 2-3 flights a day on this route as well for Virgin.


tourismman