GEsubsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 173 posts, RR: 1 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18313 times:
Ummmm....what was this off duty idiot thinking of to grope a female passenger, in 1st Class, sitting right next to her husband? Couple that with the fact that he collapses right in front of the 1st class pax after being overheard to say "I want to r*&; the flight deck."
Quokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17942 times:
Seems that he has issues. First he allegedly punches a steward on another flight (and had only just returned to duty from suspension) and now alleged sexual/ indecent assault. It's bad enough assaulting crew members but paying passengers too?
Question is, how did he get to consume so much? Was he drinking his won that he brought on board or was he being served by the cabin crew? If he was on his way to pick up another flight, would it not be a good idea to refrain from serving alcohol to repositioning crew? Or is there already such a policy in place?
I don't suppose that he will be flying for BA in future.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 725 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17408 times:
I don't think he was thinking due to the slcohol in his system. It does sound like thisnguy has a serious problem. Is it known if alcohol was involved in the previous incident as well?
Either way, the article states that he will not be wearing a BA uniform again.
bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16267 times:
It will be interesting to see what comes of this, and how the official story varies from the headlines in the Sum. The 1st point that comes to my mind is "tried to grope a passenger sitting right next to her husband" On BA 1st class, no one is sitting "right next to" anyone.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15487 times:
I don't think he'll ever fly a BA or any other passenger flight again ...
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life. Fire him and he might commit suicide, who knows what made him to do that, please judge first the causes then the consequences. Think first of how to help people and why do they enter in patters of disturbing behaviour instead of punishing them. That's if you believe that every human being is good in essence. But if you don't, then you're automatically against democracy, cause how can you allow a mix of bad and good people to make sound decisions? Think about it.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
Eurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 14261 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14): Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life. Fire him and he might commit suicide, who knows what made him to do that, please judge first the causes then the consequences. Think first of how to help people and why do they enter in patters of disturbing behaviour instead of punishing them. That's if you believe that every human being is good in essence. But if you don't, then you're automatically against democracy, cause how can you allow a mix of bad and good people to make sound decisions? Think about it.
I'm sorry Tupolev160 but I can't agree with that; I think BA was very lenient in only suspending him after he assaulted a colleague (the suspension from which he had returned prior to this incident). In my company violence against another individual (be that customer, visitor or colleague) is gross misconduct which would always result in summary dismissal without notice or compensation; we would likely also report the employee to the police as a matter of good practice.
It would be nice to think that employees with serious personal issues could be "helped" in the manner that you describe, but the reality is that businesses who hope to make a profit need employees who work hard and behave according to the standards laid down for them; this guy seemingly couldn't do that and he has to take responsibility for his own actions.
If the reported events in this most recent case are true and BA follow their procedures correctly and find accordingly, then RussianJet is absolutely correct - dismissal is the least this guy deserves.
Eurohub
Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
Nothing to do with revenge. People have a right not to be exposed to sexual attacks and drunken behaviour on board aircraft. These things are bad enough on the ground, but actually arguably even worse when you're in a tube at 30,000ft. Further to that, professional crew members should be setting the highest example here, and that is why I said what I did. There is no excuse.
Redd From Poland, joined Jan 2013, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13461 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14): Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life
Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.
Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9079 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13261 times:
Quoting Redd (Reply 18): Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life
Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.
Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.
I totally disagree with both of you. If true, this drunken person represents an airline that flies all over the world which is not comparable to someone working in an office or a fixed place so to speak. Secondly and most importantly, we are talking about a pilot here who is a captain too!!! Don't tell me such a person should not be punished more than just a few vouchers.
ytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, RR: 23 Reply 20, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12913 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14): Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life.
Quoting Redd (Reply 18): Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things.
1) Sexual assualt is never tolerable. On the ground or in the air. And alcohol is never an excuse. I shudder to think that you folks think this is some remedial issue and that it can be somewhat understood because the individual was drunk.
If that was your wife or mother or sister, would you be as compassionate?
And what do you think would happen if this had been a passenger instead of a pilot?
2) Bad enough that it was a customer. Worse that it was a high value customer. Most F and J pax are often returning customers or very loyal customers who rack up points to upgrade. The last people any airline would want offended. If said passenger agrees to even fly BA again, just imagine how she would feel (along with her husband and all those other witnesses) at seeing him walk on to the flight deck.
If this incident is exactly as portrayed in the Sun (a big if), BA would be incredibly remiss if they didn't terminate his employment. And if they can't terminate, they should ensure he never comes within 100m of any paying customer ever again. He can be the highest paid dispatcher or flight planner. But he should never be onboard a BA jet again.
steve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12639 times:
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 15): It seems that EVERY newspaper in the UK has people that think it's a 'rag'. Is there any newspaper in the UK that's respected?
No, they are all *h*t.
On a serious note, as a broad rule of thumb, I would take as factually accurate something reported in the Financial Times, Times, Telegraph, Guardian or Independent. Albeit, still subject to (often significant) political bias.
The Mail, Express and Mirror are all tabloid junk. The Sun is a comic and The Star is good only for wiping your *** with. (And even then the newsprint will come off). I would not take something reported in any of these newspapers as being necessarily factually accurate.
Most of the stories from the British press on here - that I recall anyway - are from The Daily Mail, which has a rep for being reactionary right wing middle class junk obsessed with Princess Diana, house prices, illegal immigration and gay marriage. Hence why the Brits on here treat it with the contempt it deserves.
eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12563 times:
Obviously unacceptable behaviour.
As they were on duty (taking the story that it was as positioning crew, as truth) then they shouldn't have been drinking full stop on the aircraft and shouldn't have been served any alcohol by the crew - although I doubt it inconceivable the individual was served if the crew weren't aware they was positioning.
The reality is; they drunk on duty, on the way to fly back an aircraft (presumably within a day or two of the positioning flight)where they assumes responsibility for pasenger's safety - drink problem or not, it's not acceptable and should have recognised the signs and dealt with it appropriately.
I accept drink problems don't discriminate between highly paid professionals and those in unskilled low paid jobs, but a person in such a position is well aware of the basic facts around drink and unprofessional conduct - if the person in question was willing to get drunk as staff, on duty, in an aircraft - who's to say they also wouldn't take the right hand seat as the FO on the flight home, in a similar state....
Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3514 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12379 times:
This is disgraceful but BA can't afford to train new pilots all the time. He'll probably be sent off to the map room for a couple of years and then back in the flightdeck after we've forgotten about this incident.
When you think of it BA run like a truely Christian inspired company. You can do no wrong and what wrong you do will eventually be forgotten. Maybe that's the way it should be. He has a wife and kids to support I'm guessing, and these are hard times.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
RussianJet From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6296 posts, RR: 23 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12339 times:
Quoting Redd (Reply 18): Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.
It can. On the other hand, being drunk or having a drink problem is not an excuse for committing crimes any more than a junkie who goes out robbing to fund his habit.
Quoting Redd (Reply 18): Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.
That much seems true.
Quoting A388 (Reply 19): Don't tell me such a person should not be punished more than just a few vouchers.
I can't believe than anyone seriously thinks that is adequate redress for the victim of unprovoked indecent assault. Incredible.
✈ Don't like it? That's just your tough chuff. ✈
25 rwy04lga: And you know that...how? From experience? Just playing with you. Thanks for the info.
26 A388: Yes, I agree. This person should be severely punished as in firing the person. A388
27 BestWestern: The passenger manifest is clear on who is on staff travel, and purpose of journey. The first cabin is has a CSD to look after precious few people. Th
28 YYZYYT: Tupoleve and Redd, I agree with you in principal that alcoholism should be identified, and treated (and it certainly sounds like a problem with this
29 ytz: The real twist is whether the passenger presses charges. What's the sentence for such an assault in the UK?
30 ytz: Are you suggesting then, that BA can afford the liability from any lawsuits that could arise from such an incident? Imagine this happened on a US bou
31 Dogbreath: What is disturbing here, is that a lot of the posters on this thread are acting as judge, jury and executioner, without any facts, from the alleged vi
32 RussianJet: Well, that wouldn't be me, as I took the time to specifically qualify my comments right at the start with the words 'If he did what they say he did'.
33 ytz: Nonsense. There is nothing wrong with discussing the consequences of the story as provided. If the facts change, so can opinions. Personally, I find
34 cubastar: Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 22): The reality is; they drunk on duty, on the way to fly back an aircraft (presumably within a day or two of the positi
35 Drmlnr1: He should not have been served alcohol since he was on his way to work. If he does fly for ba again it would be after going through rehab, classes, an
36 ytz: Or jail or court supervised probation. Everybody seems to be focusing on the drinking and not on the fact that he allegedly sexually assaulted a pass
37 Drmlnr1: He will have to issue an apology, and more than likely serve some time in Scotland Yard. WW won't be happy to read this.
38 longhauler: Clearly he was not "going to work" on arrival, after an LHR-NRT flight. He would have had suitable crew rest. But it comes down to the policy of the
39 RussianJet: You think he should work at the Metropolitan Police HQ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_Yard
40 usdcaguy: If I were to pay what it takes to fly BA First without using miles, I would want a pilot to be on board just to grab my t*ts and make me squeal. I wou
41 gihanjaya380: Hi everyone, WOW. This guy is a disgrace to pilots and passengers. Imagine loosing revenue, from first class passenger, due to this kind of behavior b
42 LTBEWR: BA may be able to apply it's own discipline, and apparently did so in the assault this guy allegedly committed at a prior time, but I would assume tha
43 tonystan: BW, it's all true I'm afraid. There is a lot more to the story and BA management are as at much fault as the person involved. Alas I can't go into mo
44 tonystan: BAs policy on crew drinking when positioning is simple. You are not to drink prior to reporting for the positioning sector just I case you are suddenl
45 RussianJet: If he is proven to have done it, you mean?
46 Dogbreath: The only 'truth' exposed in this newspaper article is that BA operate flights between the UK and Japan. (I can vouch for that as I've flown with BA i
47 FlyDeltaJets: In a technical sense yes, generally most airlines if not all do not allow consumption of alcohol in uniform. I don't know if this applies. The articl
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 173 posts, 
From Kazakhstan, joined Jul 2007, 6296 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6439 posts, 
From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4981 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2012, 46 posts, 
From China, joined Jan 2013, 83 posts, 
From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 318 posts, 
From Poland, joined Jan 2013, 61 posts, 
From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9079 posts, 
From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1444 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
