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Female Passenger 'groped' By Drunk BA Captain  
User currently offlineGEsubsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 183 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19682 times:

Ummmm....what was this off duty idiot thinking of to grope a female passenger, in 1st Class, sitting right next to her husband? Couple that with the fact that he collapses right in front of the 1st class pax after being overheard to say "I want to r*&; the flight deck."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...y-tipsy-British-Airways-pilot.html

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 19603 times:
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If he did what they say he did, I hope he loses his job. Oh, and faces charges. Disgraceful.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19311 times:

Seems that he has issues. First he allegedly punches a steward on another flight (and had only just returned to duty from suspension) and now alleged sexual/ indecent assault. It's bad enough assaulting crew members but paying passengers too?

Question is, how did he get to consume so much? Was he drinking his won that he brought on board or was he being served by the cabin crew? If he was on his way to pick up another flight, would it not be a good idea to refrain from serving alcohol to repositioning crew? Or is there already such a policy in place?

I don't suppose that he will be flying for BA in future.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7062 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 19186 times:

The story doesn't add up. I thought that positioning crew were 'on duty'.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 2):
I don't suppose that he will be flying for BA in future.

If the story is as we read it, I would agree.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7102 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 19120 times:

And here comes the debate about sitting men next to women  
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
If he did what they say he did, I hope he loses his job. Oh, and faces charges. Disgraceful.

Yeah agreed.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
The story doesn't add up. I thought that positioning crew were 'on duty'.

If they were on duty, couldn't they be severely fined for unprofessional conduct?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18777 times:
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Quoting GEsubsea (Thread starter):

I don't think he was thinking due to the slcohol in his system. It does sound like thisnguy has a serious problem. Is it known if alcohol was involved in the previous incident as well?

Either way, the article states that he will not be wearing a BA uniform again.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinerobbb From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17857 times:

This guy should never have gotten away so lightly with his last misdemeanor.

If he did what is alledged then he needs the book thrown at him this time, however let's not take The Sun as a font of accurate news reporting.

[Edited 2013-02-04 03:33:17]

[Edited 2013-02-04 03:33:55]

User currently offlinenazgul From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2012, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17808 times:

If this story is indeed true, then it is equally as bad assaulting crew members as it is passengers. On another note, it is the sun so I say no more.

User currently offlinebongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17636 times:

It will be interesting to see what comes of this, and how the official story varies from the headlines in the Sum. The 1st point that comes to my mind is "tried to grope a passenger sitting right next to her husband" On BA 1st class, no one is sitting "right next to" anyone.

User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1153 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17361 times:

Not that it makes any difference to the events but the article actually states that he is a first officer, not a captain.

Might be worth changing the thread title?



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineb2319 From China, joined Jan 2013, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17322 times:

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 9):
Might be worth changing the thread title?

Sun (UK rag): Some unsubstantiated BA bollox?

SD


User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17213 times:

Quoting nazgul (Reply 7):
On another note, it is the sun so I say no more.

My thoughts exactly, and I've not seen it reported anywhere else.... yet.



chase the sun
User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16856 times:

I don't think he'll ever fly a BA or any other passenger flight again ...

User currently offlineGEsubsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16653 times:

Hmmm...not allowing me to update it, but duly noted that it is likely a 1st officer and not a Captain.

[Edited 2013-02-04 06:21:32]

User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 16147 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):

Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life. Fire him and he might commit suicide, who knows what made him to do that, please judge first the causes then the consequences. Think first of how to help people and why do they enter in patters of disturbing behaviour instead of punishing them. That's if you believe that every human being is good in essence. But if you don't, then you're automatically against democracy, cause how can you allow a mix of bad and good people to make sound decisions? Think about it.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15935 times:

Quoting robbb (Reply 6):
let's not take The Sun as a font of accurate news reporting.
Quoting nazgul (Reply 7):
it is the Sun so I say no more.
Quoting b2319 (Reply 10):
Sun (UK rag)

It seems that EVERY newspaper in the UK has people that think it's a 'rag'. Is there any newspaper in the UK that's respected?



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineEurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15630 times:

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life. Fire him and he might commit suicide, who knows what made him to do that, please judge first the causes then the consequences. Think first of how to help people and why do they enter in patters of disturbing behaviour instead of punishing them. That's if you believe that every human being is good in essence. But if you don't, then you're automatically against democracy, cause how can you allow a mix of bad and good people to make sound decisions? Think about it.

I'm sorry Tupolev160 but I can't agree with that; I think BA was very lenient in only suspending him after he assaulted a colleague (the suspension from which he had returned prior to this incident). In my company violence against another individual (be that customer, visitor or colleague) is gross misconduct which would always result in summary dismissal without notice or compensation; we would likely also report the employee to the police as a matter of good practice.

It would be nice to think that employees with serious personal issues could be "helped" in the manner that you describe, but the reality is that businesses who hope to make a profit need employees who work hard and behave according to the standards laid down for them; this guy seemingly couldn't do that and he has to take responsibility for his own actions.

If the reported events in this most recent case are true and BA follow their procedures correctly and find accordingly, then RussianJet is absolutely correct - dismissal is the least this guy deserves.

Eurohub



Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15053 times:
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Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful?

Nothing to do with revenge. People have a right not to be exposed to sexual attacks and drunken behaviour on board aircraft. These things are bad enough on the ground, but actually arguably even worse when you're in a tube at 30,000ft. Further to that, professional crew members should be setting the highest example here, and that is why I said what I did. There is no excuse.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRedd From Poland, joined Jan 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14830 times:

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life

  

Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.

Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9688 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14630 times:

Quoting Redd (Reply 18):
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life



Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.

Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.

I totally disagree with both of you. If true, this drunken person represents an airline that flies all over the world which is not comparable to someone working in an office or a fixed place so to speak. Secondly and most importantly, we are talking about a pilot here who is a captain too!!! Don't tell me such a person should not be punished more than just a few vouchers.

A388


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1946 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14282 times:

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life.
Quoting Redd (Reply 18):
Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things.

1) Sexual assualt is never tolerable. On the ground or in the air. And alcohol is never an excuse. I shudder to think that you folks think this is some remedial issue and that it can be somewhat understood because the individual was drunk.

If that was your wife or mother or sister, would you be as compassionate?

And what do you think would happen if this had been a passenger instead of a pilot?

2) Bad enough that it was a customer. Worse that it was a high value customer. Most F and J pax are often returning customers or very loyal customers who rack up points to upgrade. The last people any airline would want offended. If said passenger agrees to even fly BA again, just imagine how she would feel (along with her husband and all those other witnesses) at seeing him walk on to the flight deck.

If this incident is exactly as portrayed in the Sun (a big if), BA would be incredibly remiss if they didn't terminate his employment. And if they can't terminate, they should ensure he never comes within 100m of any paying customer ever again. He can be the highest paid dispatcher or flight planner. But he should never be onboard a BA jet again.


User currently offlinesteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 14008 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 15):
It seems that EVERY newspaper in the UK has people that think it's a 'rag'. Is there any newspaper in the UK that's respected?

No, they are all *h*t.

On a serious note, as a broad rule of thumb, I would take as factually accurate something reported in the Financial Times, Times, Telegraph, Guardian or Independent. Albeit, still subject to (often significant) political bias.

The Mail, Express and Mirror are all tabloid junk. The Sun is a comic and The Star is good only for wiping your *** with. (And even then the newsprint will come off). I would not take something reported in any of these newspapers as being necessarily factually accurate.

Most of the stories from the British press on here - that I recall anyway - are from The Daily Mail, which has a rep for being reactionary right wing middle class junk obsessed with Princess Diana, house prices, illegal immigration and gay marriage. Hence why the Brits on here treat it with the contempt it deserves.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13932 times:

Obviously unacceptable behaviour.

As they were on duty (taking the story that it was as positioning crew, as truth) then they shouldn't have been drinking full stop on the aircraft and shouldn't have been served any alcohol by the crew - although I doubt it inconceivable the individual was served if the crew weren't aware they was positioning.

The reality is; they drunk on duty, on the way to fly back an aircraft (presumably within a day or two of the positioning flight)where they assumes responsibility for pasenger's safety - drink problem or not, it's not acceptable and should have recognised the signs and dealt with it appropriately.

I accept drink problems don't discriminate between highly paid professionals and those in unskilled low paid jobs, but a person in such a position is well aware of the basic facts around drink and unprofessional conduct - if the person in question was willing to get drunk as staff, on duty, in an aircraft - who's to say they also wouldn't take the right hand seat as the FO on the flight home, in a similar state....

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13748 times:

This is disgraceful but BA can't afford to train new pilots all the time. He'll probably be sent off to the map room for a couple of years and then back in the flightdeck after we've forgotten about this incident.

When you think of it BA run like a truely Christian inspired company. You can do no wrong and what wrong you do will eventually be forgotten. Maybe that's the way it should be. He has a wife and kids to support I'm guessing, and these are hard times.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13708 times:
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Quoting Redd (Reply 18):
Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.

It can. On the other hand, being drunk or having a drink problem is not an excuse for committing crimes any more than a junkie who goes out robbing to fund his habit.

Quoting Redd (Reply 18):
Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.

That much seems true.

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):
Don't tell me such a person should not be punished more than just a few vouchers.

I can't believe than anyone seriously thinks that is adequate redress for the victim of unprovoked indecent assault. Incredible.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13745 times:

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 21):
The Star is good only for wiping your *** with. (And even then the newsprint will come off)

And you know that...how? From experience? Just playing with you. Thanks for the info.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9688 posts, RR: 11
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13632 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Quoting A388 (Reply 19):
Don't tell me such a person should not be punished more than just a few vouchers.


I can't believe than anyone seriously thinks that is adequate redress for the victim of unprovoked indecent assault. Incredible.

Yes, I agree. This person should be severely punished as in firing the person.

A388


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7062 posts, RR: 57
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13437 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 22):
I doubt it inconceivable the individual was served if the crew weren't aware they was positioning.

The passenger manifest is clear on who is on staff travel, and purpose of journey. The first cabin is has a CSD to look after precious few people.

This story doesn't fully add up.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13234 times:

Quoting Redd (Reply 18):
Alcohol can make decent people do some pretty fu*ked up things. I've seen this happen time and time again in my life, he should apologize and maybe some compensation vouchers should be given to the couple but I don't see the need for anymore.

Seems like the captain might have an alcohol problem and maybe should get some help with it.

Tupoleve and Redd,

I agree with you in principal that alcoholism should be identified, and treated (and it certainly sounds like a problem with this pilot). I also agree with you that "midemeanors" (a word someoner else used above) might be excused, if they were the result of alcoholism, and the employee given a second chance... but if the story happened as reported (to be clear, I am skeptical too), this employee crossed the line in a number of ways:

1. Drinking to the point of drunkenness on a repositionuing flight? Whether technically "on duty" or off, that alone is a stunning judgement failure. Air crew and alcohol must not mix, and must not be seen to be mixing.

2. The prior attack and this assault are also harder to justify / foregive, as they are violent crimes against other persons. These are no mere "misdemeanors".

3. The fact that he was just coming off suspension from one offence, when he allowed 1 and 2 to occur, also calls into question his ability to learn from mistakes and correct his conduct.

As I said, I am usually in favour with your approach, but in this case BA has a valid concern that this individual can not be trusted with the massive repsonsibility that is piloting passengers in an aircraft; and personal responsibnility must have some meaning. I would go as far as to say that BA has no choice at all.

[Edited 2013-02-04 09:18:48]

User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1946 posts, RR: 24
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12236 times:

The real twist is whether the passenger presses charges. What's the sentence for such an assault in the UK?

User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1946 posts, RR: 24
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11658 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 23):
This is disgraceful but BA can't afford to train new pilots all the time.

Are you suggesting then, that BA can afford the liability from any lawsuits that could arise from such an incident?

Imagine this happened on a US bound flight.

Or perhaps BA can afford to pay him for the weeks or months he could get in prison for such an incident in another jurisdiction. (I don't know if there is any jail time for groping in the UK....here in Canada...it's definitely a possibility taking into account recent violent history).

I would think that the cost of retraining would be smaller than the potential liabilities this individual could rack up.


User currently offlineDogbreath From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11534 times:

What is disturbing here, is that a lot of the posters on this thread are acting as judge, jury and executioner, without any facts, from the alleged victim and the duty FO involved. If you're taking your 'facts' from a UK paper then shame on you all. If 20% of the crap written in the UK papers (especially the Sun) is based on any real fact, then I'd be surprised.


Truth, Honour, Loyalty
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11299 times:
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Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 31):
What is disturbing here, is that a lot of the posters on this thread are acting as judge, jury and executioner,

Well, that wouldn't be me, as I took the time to specifically qualify my comments right at the start with the words 'If he did what they say he did'. Discussing hypotheticals is not acting as judge, jury OR executioner.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1946 posts, RR: 24
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11040 times:

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 31):
What is disturbing here, is that a lot of the posters on this thread are acting as judge, jury and executioner, without any facts, from the alleged victim and the duty FO involved. If you're taking your 'facts' from a UK paper then shame on you all. If 20% of the crap written in the UK papers (especially the Sun) is based on any real fact, then I'd be surprised.

Nonsense. There is nothing wrong with discussing the consequences of the story as provided. If the facts change, so can opinions.

Personally, I find it disturbing that there are members here willing to dismiss a possible complaint of sexual assault so easily (automatically not true because it's an unreliable paper?) and others who will excuse it as drunkeness or some deep personal issue that deserves sympathy. That kind of mentality didn't work for the Catholic Church. And it shouldn't work for any business, let alone one as large and prestigious as BA.


User currently offlinecubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 406 posts, RR: 5
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9582 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 22):
The reality is; they drunk on duty, on the way to fly back an aircraft (presumably within a day or two of the positioning flight)where they assumes responsibility for pasenger's safety - drink problem or not, it's not acceptable and should have recognised the signs and dealt with it appropriately.

First off, I have no knowledge of BA's rules and regulations (nor any of the other European countries,
EU or not) about drinking while deadheading (possibly a more frequently used word here in the US than in other countries).

However, there are definitely time limits in place about the use of any alcohol before flying as an active crew member. Unless there are rules of which I am not aware, I think that at least some airlines do allow the consumption of alcohol when deadheading either to or from an active flight while NOT in uniform or serving as an ACTIVE crew member. Considering that this individual was evidently on an international flight to eventually fly as active crew back to the UK or some other destination, I do suspect that adequate rest time at a layover hotel would have been scheduled in advance prior to his being used as an active crew member on the return flight.

Such use of alcohol (wine with a meal, or a cocktail prior to dinner) would probably not be prohibited. However, there is quite a difference between inconspicuous, discrete use of a drink or two and what this first officer allegedly had, would have nothing in common.

If the story has any truth, then this incident and the previous one where he supposedly hit a flight attendant should definitely call for more than just a suspension.

Just the opinion of an oldtimer..


User currently offlineDrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

He should not have been served alcohol since he was on his way to work. If he does fly for ba again it would be after going through rehab, classes, and a suspension or probation.


Flying is relaxing!
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1946 posts, RR: 24
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6547 times:

Quoting Drmlnr1 (Reply 35):
He should not have been served alcohol since he was on his way to work. If he does fly for ba again it would be after going through rehab, classes, and a suspension or probation.

Or jail or court supervised probation.

Everybody seems to be focusing on the drinking and not on the fact that he allegedly sexually assaulted a passenger. That's a much bigger concern than his drinking problem.

Being drunk as a skunk in front of the pax with a potty mouth might well have been excusable (though extremely embarrassing for BA). Groping a passenger though goes beyond embarrassment for the airline.


User currently offlineDrmlnr1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6379 times:

He will have to issue an apology, and more than likely serve some time in Scotland Yard. WW won't be happy to read this.


Flying is relaxing!
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4876 posts, RR: 43
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Quoting Drmlnr1 (Reply 35):
He should not have been served alcohol since he was on his way to work. If he does fly for ba again it would be after going through rehab, classes, and a suspension or probation.

Clearly he was not "going to work" on arrival, after an LHR-NRT flight. He would have had suitable crew rest. But it comes down to the policy of the airline with respect to alcohol consumption when positioning as a passenger. Most airlines allow it, but to the same moderation as consuming alcohol when on a layover and never contravening air regs.

However, my airline's policy is that if you are to consume alcohol when positioning, you are not in any way supposed to be identifiable as an employee regardless of how much you drink. Even though you know you are positioning to a crew rest, and the airline knows that ... a passenger watching you does not. My own personal choice is never to drink alcohol when positioning, even though it is allowed.

I actually feel sorry for this poor sod. Alcoholism is a disease, and it appears to have bettered him. It sounds like he was given his "one chance", re-instated, and will likely get fired this time. With regard to alcoholism, most airlines are very empathetic, but still only give "one chance".

But, like some forms of Cancer and Heart Disease, one can not fly when the disease "wins".

With regard to the alleged sexual abuse, that is left up to the courts, and of course .... alcoholism is not an excuse, just a reason.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5953 times:
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Quoting Drmlnr1 (Reply 37):
serve some time in Scotland Yard

You think he should work at the Metropolitan Police HQ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_Yard



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4820 times:

If I were to pay what it takes to fly BA First without using miles, I would want a pilot to be on board just to grab my t*ts and make me squeal. I would want it to be THAT phenomenal...

User currently offlinegihanjaya380 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4461 times:
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Hi everyone,

WOW. This guy is a disgrace to pilots and passengers. Imagine loosing revenue, from first class passenger, due to this kind of behavior by a captain. If he was a trouble maker before, why on earth did BA return him to fly. He should have been demoted or fired.

Gihan


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

BA may be able to apply it's own discipline, and apparently did so in the assault this guy allegedly committed at a prior time, but I would assume that he would have access to government labor/labour protection agencies and hearing policies if a firing could be a result. I hope the union keeps their nose out except to for minimal help to protect his legitment legal rights but that's it.

I suspect some deal will be done to remove him from the front seats, suspension requiring a visit to an alcohol rehab and mental health counseling with a good review before any return to work, but likely not in the air. I also bet he loses his flying benefits for years. Probably BA will revise it's drink polices as to 'deadheading' staff on their flights or anyone else's.


User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 43, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 27):



BW, it's all true I'm afraid. There is a lot more to the story and BA management are as at much fault as the person involved. Alas I can't go into more detail but this story has become a major issue between the cabin crew and flight crew community showing shocking evidence of double standards!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

BAs policy on crew drinking when positioning is simple.

You are not to drink prior to reporting for the positioning sector just I case you are suddenly require to operate however once onboard you are permitted as long as (usual policy on alcohol applies now) your duty is within 8 hours with minimal consumption between 12 and 8 hours prior to a duty. I forget exactly how much alcohol is allowed to be in your system at report time but it is very minimal!!!!

So in a nutshell, this FO could drink on the flight as it was to NRT (one of BAs longest flights) and when he arrived there he would have had 24 hours or so to recover!



My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 45, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3775 times:
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Quoting gihanjaya380 (Reply 43):
WOW. This guy is a disgrace to pilots and passengers. Imagine loosing revenue, from first class passenger, due to this kind of behavior by a captain. If he was a trouble maker before, why on earth did BA return him to fly. He should have been demoted or fired.

If he is proven to have done it, you mean?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDogbreath From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Quoting tonystan (Reply 43):
it's all true I'm afraid.

The only 'truth' exposed in this newspaper article is that BA operate flights between the UK and Japan. (I can vouch for that as I've flown with BA in that route many, many times). Without any fact, evidence and real victim/s then this piece is pure fiction (until proven). Not one name is mentioned, or anything to fill the gaping holes in this story. As has already been pointed out, no-one sits side by side in First Class. If the alleged FO was to molest a wife, and scream obscenities, what did the husband do? I'm sure a large number of husbands (including me) would beat the abuser senseless and end up being arrested for GBH of a crewmember on landing. Yet this story would have us believe the husband wasn't even involved. Sorry doesn't add up. Did the wife (and husband) have the offender arrested on landing? No info, doesn't add up. Was the PIC informed of this incident? Did he intervene and have the offender arrested? As a Captain myself, if I was informed that a passenger (whether he was a crewmember or not) had molested and acted is such a way as was reported then I'd have the Police meet the aircraft to have the offender removed for questioning. No info, doesn't make sense. Said offender bashing on the flight deck door and yelling obscenities in front of stunned passengers. Yet none of these so called witnesses can provide first hand statements that this actually occurred. Doesn't add up. Surely the Sun, if they had any real evidence to the story would post these facts. All they have is an anonymous BA insider statement (so read between the lines - fiction!!).

BA management at fault, double standards by management. Let me guess a BA cabin crew union's (BASSA) dream come true. No evidence, no facts to support the story, please prove me wrong.



Truth, Honour, Loyalty
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2673 times:
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Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
The story doesn't add up. I thought that positioning crew were 'on duty'.

In a technical sense yes, generally most airlines if not all do not allow consumption of alcohol in uniform. I don't know if this applies. The article doesn't state.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 14):
Why are you all so revengeful? We all have ups and downs in life. Fire him and he might commit suicide, who knows what made him to do that, please judge first the causes then the consequences.

As a representative of British Airways, a person that just came off of a serious disciplinary action. It just seems the logical next step in the chain of disciplinary actions. It's not being revengeful. It's enforcing standards for your employees to follow.



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
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