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Virgin America To Launch LAX-SJC  
User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8492 times:

Beginning May 1

"Virgin America announced Monday it will offer four daily flights from San Jose to Los Angeles beginning May 1. The airline plans to add 15 workers in San Jose."


http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...-america-begins-san-jose-l-flights

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTriple7Lr From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8361 times:

Didn't DL just announce this as well. Boy this is going to be on saturated market.

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8346 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Waiting for the posters who insist that AA will now drop LAX-SJC

User currently offlineairbusa322 From Australia, joined Apr 2009, 245 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8289 times:

I think VX will be out of money by then...

User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8266 times:

Quoting airbusa322 (Reply 3):
I think VX will be out of money by then...

What makes you hyink that? Do you have a link to verify their Q4 2012 numbers? I don't believe they have posted those public yet...  


User currently offlineDolphinAir747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8169 times:

Wow, looks like cheap fares will abound now....

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7034 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8162 times:

Since I doubt VX is retaliating against DL for adding LAX-SJC, I'm going to guess DL "got wind of it" and announced it first. I thought it was peculiar DL loaded it into OAG in the middle of the week last week. They nearly always load schedule changes over the weekend. It's as if they wanted to make sure it was announced and for sale as soon as possible.  

User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9287 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
Since I doubt VX is retaliating against DL for adding LAX-SJC, I'm going to guess DL "got wind of it" and announced it first. I thought it was peculiar DL loaded it into OAG in the middle of the week last week. They nearly always load schedule changes over the weekend. It's as if they wanted to make sure it was announced and for sale as soon as possible.

Just for the record, still no official PR from Delta yet.



yep.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 923 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7905 times:

LOL I just love VX's press release about this!!

"Award-Winning Airline brings New Jobs, Lower Fares and Much-Needed Flight Competition for South Bay Business Travelers"

As if VX needs another route that does poorly. Why David Cush hasn't been fired is beyond me. Their route planners again and again have shown that they haven't an original thought in their heads.


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 417 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7844 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 7):

Just for the record, still no official PR from Delta yet.

I was wondering why the article didn't mention DL also starting service Jun 1st in that sillicon paper i guess this is why??


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2926 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7602 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Seems VX is building up LAX a bit lately. Good for them and I hope they find great success.


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7556 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
LOL I just love VX's press release about this!!

"Award-Winning Airline brings New Jobs, Lower Fares and Much-Needed Flight Competition for South Bay Business Travelers"

As if VX needs another route that does poorly. Why David Cush hasn't been fired is beyond me. Their route planners again and again have shown that they haven't an original thought in their heads.

I have to agree. Why not look at some city pairs not served currently, or served poorly and go after that market. I would rather be the big fish in a small ocean than the small fish in the big ocean.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

4 mainline flights is gonna be tough but alot of companies in the bay area and LA love vigin america so i wouldnt say its one of their worst route selections. My brother in law flys LAX-SFO weekly for google and i bet alot of tech people like that will now as well. alot of people headed to silicon valley will like this flight its just be alot of seats for virgin to fill with Delta also entering the market

User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9287 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 9):
I was wondering why the article didn't mention DL also starting service Jun 1st in that sillicon paper i guess this is why??

Guess so.



yep.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7528 times:

and throw the codeshare announcement between AA and DL into the pot

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...ska-airlines-expand-150000083.html



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 923 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7453 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 15):
and throw the codeshare announcement between AA and DL into the pot

Know you meant AA and AS.    So we'll have AA, AS, UA, WN and now VX all fighting for customers on this route. WN alone has ten flights a day, AA six, AS three. What's four more?


User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7402 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
Why not look at some city pairs not served currently

From SFO/LAX??? I am pretty sure most would agree any city not served from SFO/LAX from VX that doesn't have 4+ carriers on the route already is just not qualified enough to be a VX future destination.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17328 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7386 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 17):

From SFO/LAX??? I am pretty sure most would agree any city not served from SFO/LAX from VX that doesn't have 4+ carriers on the route already is just not qualified enough to be a VX future destination.

   That is the sad reality



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32599 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7333 times:

Didn't Virgin America learn from SNASFO?


a.
User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4997 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 19):


Didn't Virgin America learn from SNASFO?

Could be a test to see if the VX model appeals to SJC travelers. SNA was a dead end for expansion, SJC is another matter. With a dearth of new VX capacity in the near future short haul ex-LAX will increase utilization. IF they get some positive income on the books and SJC does well, SJC could serve as a potential new base for VX.

Not holding my breath on that but we'll see....



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7241 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
As if VX needs another route that does poorly. Why David Cush hasn't been fired is beyond me. Their route planners again and again have shown that they haven't an original thought in their heads
Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 17):
From SFO/LAX??? I am pretty sure most would agree any city not served from SFO/LAX from VX that doesn't have 4+ carriers on the route already is just not qualified enough to be a VX future destination.

I was going to say the same thing. My theory is Cush waited for DL to announce the route, at which time it became VX's kind of market - WAY too much capacity and competition. So in he jumps! What a magnificent (and successful) strategy...
Quoting luv2fly (Reply 12):
Why not look at some city pairs not served currently, or served poorly and go after that market. I would rather be the big fish in a small ocean than the small fish in the big ocean

What a silly idea! You'd never make it in VX's management or route planning team!  

And I say again, good luck to all the VX investors.

bb


User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7223 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 19):
Didn't Virgin America learn from SNASFO?

That gets me wondering...I am interested in seeing the numbers for SFO-SAN. That route has been there forever and it must be working since they haven't eliminated it yet. So maybe SJC could work out in the future. I could see a daily SJC transcon working...


User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7163 times:

VX has a press release now on their website:
http://www.virginamerica.com/press-r...-from-san-jose-to-los-angeles.html

LAX - SJC 0700 0810
LAX - SJC 1255 1405
LAX - SJC 1655 1805
LAX - SJC 2045 2155



SJC - LAX 0635 0745
SJC - LAX 0855 1005
SJC - LAX 1450 1600
SJC - LAX 1850 2000


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7034 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7140 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 7):
Just for the record, still no official PR from Delta yet.
Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 9):
I was wondering why the article didn't mention DL also starting service Jun 1st in that sillicon paper i guess this is why??

OK, more evidence. GH just tossed this thing out in hopes of dissuading VX and it didn't work.

IMHO it's time for VX to lose Cush. I think he's had his chance there and it still isn't working any better. Possibly worse. It's a tough challenge, but I think the time has come for another leader to see if they can get to the next level of success. I think they might start by abandoning the exclusive focus on LAX/SFO. They need to pursue options anywhere they come. LAX and SFO are too limiting. LAX is a zoo with everybody in play there.

I still don't get where the planes for all these new routes are coming from. I thought VX deferred all deliveries.


User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
I still don't get where the planes for all these new routes are coming from. I thought VX deferred all deliveries.

If you recall sometime back I believe it was in NOV/DEC12 when VX cut down operations significantly. For example over the summer I believe VX was 5x daily on SEA-SFO, now on some days are down to as little as 2x. That's where the planes are coming from. SEA as a whole has taken a huge hit in schedule reduction from LAX as well

[Edited 2013-02-04 10:28:40]

User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

UA will likely be the first to pull the route. I'm curious if Horizon will stick on the route. AA is a maybe. Southwest isn't going anywhere.

Between DL and VX adding this route, no one will make money on it.

SJC-LAX is one of those fascinating routes with various equipment. You can choose a prop on Horizon's Q400, an all economy RJ on AA's CRJs/ERJs, a two class RJ with UA's CR7, an all economy mainline jet with Southwest's 737, and soon to be 2 class full service on VX's A320s.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7359 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 16):
Know you meant AA and AS.  

Thanks I did. That was one helluva typo, but if AA and DL did decide to codeshare....A.net would probably implode!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineOC2DC From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7546 times:

Why does VX insist on entering heavily saturated/competitive markets, especially when there are other markets that could be better served by them?

Clearly VX has done a great job going after AA customers at DFW. Perhaps they should try going after DL customers at ATL, DTW and maybe MSP. I don't see why SFO/LAX-ATL wouldn't work for them. Even better, why don't they try going after UA at IAH.

VX has a lot of potential, however, they definitely need new leadership to put them on the right track.

I would wish them good luck on this new route, but I doubt that will help them...



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

Quoting OC2DC (Reply 28):
VX has a lot of potential, however, they definitely need new leadership to put them on the right track

Given their track record those are some highly competitive markets you mentioned so
Your suggestion of routes don't seem to differ from the leadership you question at VX  
They are already planning on taking on UA at EWR. I cant honestly say which airport is a bigger gorilla to tackle EWR/IAH....either way apparently we should expect hourly service backlash  


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7034 posts, RR: 13
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 25):
If you recall sometime back I believe it was in NOV/DEC12 when VX cut down operations significantly. For example over the summer I believe VX was 5x daily on SEA-SFO, now on some days are down to as little as 2x. That's where the planes are coming from. SEA as a whole has taken a huge hit in schedule reduction from LAX as well

OK, hadn't noticed that. Interesting.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 26):
AA is a maybe. Southwest isn't going anywhere.

I think AA won't let it go because of history in SJC. THey have held on to BNA-LAX/LGA for a long time.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 26):
Between DL and VX adding this route, no one will make money on it.

So true

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 26):
SJC-LAX is one of those fascinating routes with various equipment. You can choose a prop on Horizon's Q400, an all economy RJ on AA's CRJs/ERJs, a two class RJ with UA's CR7, an all economy mainline jet with Southwest's 737, and soon to be 2 class full service on VX's A320s.

The RJ guys will have the worst margin, but I guess they will lose the least $$$.

Quoting OC2DC (Reply 28):
Why does VX insist on entering heavily saturated/competitive markets, especially when there are other markets that could be better served by them?
Quoting OC2DC (Reply 28):
VX has a lot of potential, however, they definitely need new leadership to put them on the right track.
Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 29):
Your suggestion of routes don't seem to differ from the leadership you question at VX

I think with everybody pounding on AA, VX would be smart to go mess with them in MIA to high end Caribbean. Cush is just ignoring everything else in order to build their brand in LAX/SFO. I might be crazy, but I don't think VX can ever be much in LAX. They will never engender broad loyalty. The market is too splintered and the int'l routes are too important to the deep pocket customers. VX could be the 2nd guy in MIA. B6 killed MHT by going into BOS. VX should attempt that in MIA (FLL).


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7049 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 21):
That gets me wondering...I am interested in seeing the numbers for SFO-SAN. That route has been there forever and it must be working since they haven't eliminated it yet.

I would also love to see the numbers.

Virgin seems to be maintaining about 4-5 daily r/t in the market (no change since they started flying it in Feb of 2008) while of course adding no other routes. And what's really amazing is they only have 2 competitors -- WN and UA! (Seems kind of few by VX's standards!) However, it is a rather good-sized market with about 1,500PDEW so if VX isn't making a profit there, it would be pretty sad.

I do find it interesting that the last 2 additiions to the VX route map have been a bit unusual for the carrier: LAX-LAS and now LAX-SJC. A couple of new routes not involving SFO. A couple of new markets added from only LA. A couple of short hauls. Are these just "stocking-stuffers" -- something small to use some a/c time until something better comes along? Has the company "maxed out" at SFO? Could there be some other strategies emerging from VX that will (finally) change the look of the route map somewhat over the next year?

bb


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7020 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 29):
Your suggestion of routes don't seem to differ from the leadership you question at VX  
They are already planning on taking on UA at EWR. I cant honestly say which airport is a bigger gorilla to tackle EWR/IAH....either way apparently we should expect hourly service backlash  

I would band the EWR market into the general New York market (includes JFK) which is obviously high in competition (i.e. everybody and their mother flies form New York to LAX/SFO , AA, UA, B6, DL, VX). Clearly, they are going to be up for a big battle when they start that route.

LAX-IAH only has UA and MQ (and WN if you count HOU). There's also the new entrant, NK, but VX has a much bigger following at LAX and a better product than NK. I think VX would be a great alternative for many on both ends of the route.
SFO-IAH only has UA. Sure UA could retaliate with more frequency or cheaper fares, but how long will that last? Look at what AA did to VX when they entered the DFW-LAX/SFO market. AA gave away "customer appreciation" gift cards and cut fares to ridiculously low levels. That only lasted 2 months and VX been in the market for over 2 years now with some success. I think VX could make it work.

You have to remember that VX is the anti-legacy carrier. They do things differently and I think a lot of people that get irritated with the legacies will look for alternatives, thats where VX steps in.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineAS739BSI From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

VX needs to get into IAH, UA is vulnerable there and I think that market is ripe for the picking given SFO-IAH is a UA monopoly. With only RJ competition from LAX, it would be another good addition and to get at UA while they are still going through difficulties.

User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6743 times:

I don't suppose they would consider serving LAX/SFO-RDU? RDU is home to the Research Triangle Park...may be some high yielding passengers flying between RDU and the West Coast, no? Granted, US already flies SFO-RDU plus DL and AA have introduced LAX-RDU.

BNA? STL? MCI? AUS?


User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
I think AA won't let it go because of history in SJC.

Actually, given what AA's history at SJC is (buying AirCal and it's SJC hub, gutting the hub like a fish, then doing the exact same thing with Reno Air), I would argue that invoking AA's history at SJC suggests the opposite. AA barely even has a token presence at SJC at this point, and I don't see them hesitating to cut it further if the financial conditions warrant it.

And, as someone who used to fly SJC-LAX on a monthly basis, and as someone who likes to see competition/options, I'm happy to read both VX's and DL's intentions to start the route (although DL hasn't announced it formally yet). Hopefully everyone succeeds while keeping fares from going through the roof...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24798 posts, RR: 46
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
As if VX needs another route that does poorly.

Why would it do poorly?

LA basin - Bay area is one of the worlds busiest markets.

Clearly there folks on boths ends of California that would happily take advantage of the new opportunity.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
Why David Cush hasn't been fired is beyond me.

Obviously the owners/investors support him. That's what matters, not the A.net peanut gallery.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
Their route planners again and again have shown that they haven't an original thought in their heads.

Going for a large and popular market is a failure in your mind?

Companies survey travelers, and corporate clients. I suspect LAX-SJC came near the top of VX customer wish list as with recent LAX-LAS

Anyhow - for the record SJC airport themselves considers Los Angeles an "underserved" market and has air service incentive package available for new carrier.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 10):
Seems VX is building up LAX a bit lately. Good for them and I hope they find great success.

They have lots of room for growth facility wise.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 19):
Could be a test to see if the VX model appeals to SJC travelers.

I am sure VX already has a following from SJC already on its existing network.

Also I am sure the airports new air service incentive package helps with the decision.
Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 21):
That gets me wondering...I am interested in seeing the numbers for SFO-SAN. That route has been there forever and it must be working since they haven't eliminated it yet.

DOT for 12mos ended Sept.

Airline / Load Factor / Market share / Yield cents
UA - 76% - 36% - 26.2
VX - 77% - 21% - 24.9
WN - 79% - 32% - 23.1

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
LAX and SFO are too limiting. LAX is a zoo with everybody in play there.

They are large markets. Airlines (as with most business) go where the people are.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
UA will likely be the first to pull the route.

   UA with its SFO buildup and pull down at OAK/SJC has clearly signaled the secondary station can be sacrificed.

Quoting OC2DC (Reply 27):
Why does VX insist on entering heavily saturated/competitive markets

Like mentioned previously LAX-SJC is a good sized market. Almost 4,600 people seek to fly between the South Bay to LA Basin daily.

I'm sure VX flyers on both ends would appreciate the flight.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 30):
I do find it interesting that the last 2 additiions to the VX route map have been a bit unusual for the carrier: LAX-LAS and now LAX-SJC. A couple of new routes not involving SFO.

LAX-LAS was simply to compliment the long existing SFO-LAS flight and was long overdue.

LAX-SJC is a bit like SFO-SAN - a major market from your hub



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 21):
I could see a daily SJC transcon working...

And I've "seen" that possibility for 5 years out of SAN with Virgin. Advice: don't hold your breath Socal'!  
Quoting warden145 (Reply 35):
Hopefully everyone succeeds while keeping fares from going through the roof...
AS, AA, UA, VX, DL, and WN -- that's an awful lot of everyone to succeed... The DOT reports in Table 1A for 2Q12 that LAX-SJC had a total of 1720 O&D pax per day which equals 860 PDEW. There are certainly some connecting pax on the route but still... Five cx sharing maybe 1000 PDEW?

bb

[Edited 2013-02-04 18:10:03]

User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
Airline / Load Factor / Market share / Yield cents
UA - 76% - 36% - 26.2
VX - 77% - 21% - 24.9
WN - 79% - 32% - 23.1

Thank you for that  
After a quick check at all 3 airline websites I found exactly what I figured. All 3 are charging the same price basically every day ~$160 each way. I don't know how to interpret these numbers to the fact that VX only has 3 flights a day to UA and WN who have 8 each. VX seems to be making more money per flight than WN?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24798 posts, RR: 46
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 37):
AS, AA, UA, VX and WN -- that's an awful lot of everyone to succeed... The DOT reports in Table 1A for 2Q12 that LAX-SJC had a total of 1720 O&D pax per day which equals 860 PDEW. There are certainly some connecting pax on the route but still... Five cx sharing maybe 1000 PDEW?

Per SJC Airport, the true daily demand was more like 4,592 between South Bay and LA Basin. (I believe they used 2011 figures)

There is a lot of spill of traffic using other airports and hence why SJC has an incentive program in place for new LAX flight and has designated it to be an "underserved" market.

I have no doubt the market can be stimulated by new service, question is how much of this native market that SJC identified would migrate back to using SJC versus continuing to drive to SFO/OAK with the added choice to LA basin.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6044 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 38):
I don't know how to interpret these numbers to the fact that VX only has 3 flights a day to UA and WN who have 8 each.

More accurately, Virgin has been running ~4/5 flights/day most of the time lately; WN is consistently at 9/day. UA varies by day, week and month (?) but my best estimate (guess) would be ~8/9 per day.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39):
Per SJC Airport, the true daily demand was more like 4,592 between South Bay and LA Basin. (I believe they used 2011 figures.)

And that may be but I'd sure love to see how they came up with that number. (I would bet they have some SFO-departing pax in there that are believed to actually be from the South Bay.) Ah, leakage and statistics!
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39):
There is a lot of spill of traffic using other airports and hence why SJC has an incentive program in place for new LAX flight and has designated it to be an "underserved" market.

I guess SJC got their wish! (Must be one hell of an incentive package...) Intriguing that they felt that 4 cx -- UA, AA, AS and WN -- all flying to LAX airport -- created an "underserved" market! It will be very interesting to see how all the combatants work through this.

bb


User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 633 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

Quoting OC2DC (Reply 27):
Why does VX insist on entering heavily saturated/competitive markets, especially when there are other markets that could be better served by them?

Yeah, and why San José of all places? Fly to something like Montréal instead, where current fares are high and nonstop options are scant from Calif. It seems they are just entering an already-well-served blood bath on the LAX-SJC route.... I still don't understand why they didn't try to build up their Toronto service before they so quickly pulled it.


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4385 times:
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You cannot fault Virgin for pulling out of Toronto. The problem of flying to Canada is the cost of doing business. The high airport fees and ticket taxes make the cost of a ticket expensive. This is why Allegiant is having so much success in flying from Grand Forks, ND and Plattsburgh, NY.

User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4147 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Also I am sure the airports new air service incentive package helps with the decision.

The incentive for new service SJC-LAX is a one year waiver on fees. A focus city would provide additional support beyond that, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I would think the DL Connection service would qualify for the fee waiver as well.

http://www.flysanjose.com/fl/busines...evelopment+|+Air+Service+Incentive

David


User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9287 posts, RR: 14
Reply 43, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
So we'll have AA, AS, UA, WN and now VX all fighting for customers on this route

and Delta

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):

OK, more evidence. GH just tossed this thing out in hopes of dissuading VX and it didn't work.

not at all. They have been looking to replace the capacity they lost when they dumped the MQ codeshare on intra-cali routes. Do not be surprised(as i said in the other thread) to see LAX-FAT/MRY/SBA come at some point.
I do think this was rushed up because of VX though.

Quoting OC2DC (Reply 27):
I don't see why SFO/LAX-ATL wouldn't work for them. Even better

because Delta will do a major capacity dump.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):

There is a lot of spill of traffic using other airports and hence why SJC has an incentive program in place for new LAX flight and has designated it to be an "underserved" market.

So Delta will also be able to use this? or is it just for new carriers to SJC?



yep.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3960 times:
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Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 32):
VX needs to get into IAH,

VX needs to get into ATL because of the film and entertainment industry. Lots of Zombies will want to fly VX


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 417 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 44):

VX needs to get into ATL because of the film and entertainment industry. Lots of Zombies will want to fly VX

Haha they would lose even more money!! UA couldnt make it happen from LAX,so i don't think it would be a good idea for VX to go into a hub like ATL....


User currently offlineaajfksjubklyn From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 901 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 4):
What makes you hyink that? Do you have a link to verify their Q4 2012 numbers? I don't believe they have posted those public yet...

Apparently, and this was from a VX employee, they couldnt pay their employees on time last week.


User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 43):
They have been looking to replace the capacity they lost when they dumped the MQ codeshare on intra-cali routes. Do not be surprised(as i said in the other thread) to see LAX-FAT/MRY/SBA come at some point.
I do think this was rushed up because of VX though.

Does anybody know why the codeshares were dumped? It now seems possible that they were dumped to make room for some of the new routes out of LAX.

With Delta having dropped SLC-SBA and SLC-MRY in previous years, I would be surprised to see those stations resurrected out of LAX. Though certainly LAX-SBA is a quick turn.

But then I think most folks here have not been expecting the buildup out of LAX that is taking place for the Widget. Me, I'd like to see them go for LAX-SMX.  

David


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24798 posts, RR: 46
Reply 48, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 46):
Apparently, and this was from a VX employee, they couldnt pay their employees on time last week.

And did anyone bother to read the letter the company put out to employees?

The payroll vendor ADP messed up, there was an issue with bonus and 401k payments and result ADP failed to make the direct deposit and instead issued folks paper checks on the same day.

The company/ADP is paying for any overdraft or late payment issues employees experienced.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 46):
Apparently, and this was from a VX employee, they couldnt pay their employees on time last week.

well...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 48):
And did anyone bother to read the letter the company put out to employees?

I also read it only had to do with the Pilots and Inflight though that is not from a VX employee or reliable source so correct me if I am wrong. I know a couple of Guest Service VX employees and I heard no complaints. This could have happened last year and most people would speculate the same thing as you are now. This could have happened to AA or F9 and people would think that and all I have to say to it is again ....

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 4):
o you have a link to verify their Q4 2012 numbers? I don't believe they have posted those public yet...


[Edited 2013-02-05 10:08:37]

User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 43):
Quoting OC2DC (Reply 27):
I don't see why SFO/LAX-ATL wouldn't work for them. Even better

because Delta will do a major capacity dump.

I don't think more capacity/frequency is what a disgruntled DL customer out of ATL is looking for. People want choices/alternatives to the norm. VX can be a viable alternative to DL on LAX/SFO-ATL flights.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 50):
People want choices/alternatives to the norm.

With VX fleet of only 52 aircraft I dont see how they could possible have frequency to generate traffic away from Delta...
I cant see VX being able to support more than 2 flights/day to SFO/LAX respectively which DL would totally blow away with low fares and frequency...It would be YYZ/Air Canada all over again.

I am not saying never I just cant see them being able to fly it right now...profitably


User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 52, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 51):
Quoting oc2dc (Reply 50):
People want choices/alternatives to the norm.

With VX fleet of only 52 aircraft I dont see how they could possible have frequency to generate traffic away from Delta...
I cant see VX being able to support more than 2 flights/day to SFO/LAX respectively which DL would totally blow away with low fares and frequency...It would be YYZ/Air Canada all over again.

I am not saying never I just cant see them being able to fly it right now...profitably

it would be a similar encore situation like our B6 vs DL on LA area - ATL all over again circa May '03-Nov '03. DL basically tripled their frequencies to all LA area airport and their typical SkyMiles bonus. our B6 loads were great (mainly cause it was summer time) but yields weren't great. we close up shop and a cpl months later opened up BOS.


User currently offlinePHLwok From United States of America, joined May 2007, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Like mentioned previously LAX-SJC is a good sized market. Almost 4,600 people seek to fly between the South Bay to LA Basin daily.

I'm sure VX flyers on both ends would appreciate the flight.

I'm surprised they didn't add this route a while ago. As they want to hub in LAX and SFO, this kind of high volume intra-California route seems like one that should have existed since early on to shore up demand and market share for VX in the state. Is LAX the top destination from SJC?


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17328 posts, RR: 46
Reply 54, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 50):

I don't think more capacity/frequency is what a disgruntled DL customer out of ATL is looking for. People want choices/alternatives to the norm. VX can be a viable alternative to DL on LAX/SFO-ATL flights.

People want a lot of things. Just about the only thing that they'll pay extra for, however, is schedule and network, which VX does not have. Even on the product side, DL has a competitive front and back cabin product on many of their transcons, but regardless no one is really paying VX extra for their admittedly top notch product. So that leaves WN/FL for that disgruntled ATL customer, who still would have VX beat on network and schedule....



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9287 posts, RR: 14
Reply 55, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2972 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 50):
VX can be a viable alternative to DL on LAX/SFO-ATL flights.

Right just like United was.   (and they have a much, much, much better network on the LAX/SFO end)

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 50):
I don't think more capacity/frequency is what a disgruntled DL customer out of ATL is looking for.

No, but they will look for near free fares. (or just keep flying FL/WN)

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 51):
I cant see VX being able to support more than 2 flights/day to SFO/LAX respectively which DL would totally blow away with low fares and frequency...It would be YYZ/Air Canada all over again.

This. Delta would very likely add a few flights to LAX and upgrade most of the metal to widebodys. This would cause super low fairs and it would simply be who is going to lose money the longest.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 52):
t would be a similar encore situation like our B6 vs DL on LA area - ATL all over again circa May '03-Nov '03. DL basically tripled their frequencies to all LA area airport and their typical SkyMiles bonus. our B6 loads were great (mainly cause it was summer time) but yields weren't great. we close up shop and a cpl months later opened up BOS.

and i would expect most of the same thing. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a 747 on LAX if that happened.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54):
Just about the only thing that they'll pay extra for, however, is schedule and network, which VX does not have.

IT would be so nice if people around here would just figure this out arleady.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 54):
So that leaves WN/FL for that disgruntled ATL customer, who still would have VX beat on network and schedule....

this.



yep.
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

I would imagine they will be looking at SMF-LAX next.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17328 posts, RR: 46
Reply 57, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 56):
I would imagine they will be looking at SMF-LAX next.

Before or after they have a huge blowout with Richard Branson celebrating one billion down the drain? 



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12860 posts, RR: 100
Reply 58, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2853 times:
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This is an interesting choice as noted. I'm trying to figure out the payoff. Is this to push B6 out of the bay area market by serving more destinations? Let's pretend there is a good strategic reason for this move. Someone please clue me into the game theory being applied! For otherwise, I just do not get this route choice.


Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
So we'll have AA, AS, UA, WN and now VX all fighting for customers on this route. WN alone has ten flights a day, AA six, AS three. What's four more?

And possibly DL?!? I think VX could do well against all 'big legacy' (DL, AA, UA, and US). But WN and AS?!?

I'm being lazy. Does anyone have a comparison of their CASM on a similar length route?

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 16):
From SFO/LAX??? I am pretty sure most would agree any city not served from SFO/LAX from VX that doesn't have 4+ carriers on the route already is just not qualified enough to be a VX future destination.

   You came so close to making me wear my beverage...

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
IMHO it's time for VX to lose Cush.

This will be the year he must prove himself. Seriously. VX must start breaking even in 2013 or Cush is going to have to go.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 26):
if AA and DL did decide to codeshare....A.net would probably implode!

Let the Skyteam-OneWorld merger threads begin!     
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 55):
This would cause super low fairs and it would simply be who is going to lose money the longest.

VX has proven themselves superior at that game.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 57):
efore or after they have a huge blowout with Richard Branson celebrating one billion down the drain? 

I would be focusing on the two hot dames under his shoulders!! 

Bring it on!!!   


User currently onlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9287 posts, RR: 14
Reply 60, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 58):
VX has proven themselves superior at that game.

They haven't played against Delta yet.



yep.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 61, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 56):
I would imagine they will be looking at SMF-LAX next.

I still think that somebody (QX, AS, or VX) should start SJC-SNA. So now SJC-LAX will have 6 carriers, yet SW has a monopoly on SJC-SNA.


User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2528 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 61):
SW has a monopoly on SJC-SNA.

It is what it is...

Remember VX's SFO-SNA?


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 63, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 61):
still think that somebody (QX, AS, or VX) should start SJC-SNA. So now SJC-LAX will have 6 carriers, yet SW has a monopoly on SJC-SNA.

Same could be said (and has been) about SAN-SJC... And there are no slots to worry about in SAN, and VX has not already started and dropped service at SAN, and AS is in a bit of a growth phase in SAN now.)

But apparently SJC has offered incentives (and maybe even subsidies?) for service to LAX; it appears they'e gotten their wish! Now it will be fun to watch what happens in the market.

bb


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 64, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 62):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 61):
SW has a monopoly on SJC-SNA.

It is what it is...

Remember VX's SFO-SNA?

I wasn't necessarily suggesting that VX is the best choice for a second carrier on SJC-SNA. I would think that QX or even AS mainline would be the best choice. Yes, I know that AS dropped OAK-SNA, but I think SJC-SNA is a more viable market due to tech traffic and AS is building a better presence in SJC.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 65, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

Their marketing is piss poor on this one...

"Subject: Geek out with new flights from San Jose to L.A."

And in the body of the email (it's HTML so can't post it), they say "geek out" twice more. Not everyone who works in tech likes to be called a geek, and certainly the "hip" crowd who prefers VX and works in tech would not think of themselves as geeks. They aren't all Big Bang Theory types.

My wife works in middle tier web, and she's neither hip nor geek (barely knows the difference between star wars and star trek and has no opinion on JJ Abrams for chisakes), but the VX customers she works with (those who are hip techies) wouldn't respond to being called geeks positively. And the geeks she works with wouldn't care about flying VX, but would rather choose the cheapest flight no matter who it's on.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 65):
And the geeks she works with wouldn't care about flying VX, but would rather choose the cheapest flight no matter who it's on.

And I am sure they will fly VX if the fare is right regardless if they resent being called geeks or not. I don't think VX is using that little slogan to attract guest. Its just them showing how they are different in their own way. Now you can geek out in a Newark state of mind  


User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 67, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Is "geek out" really any different (read: worse) than the "nerd-bird" moniker attached to the likes of SJC-AUS routes? I don't think it will make or break the service; I think it's just part of VX marketing trying to be cool. It cetainly doesn't appeal to me but then I'm    and certainly not in the target market for Virgin!

bb


User currently offlineFreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

I can't really see how this is going to be a moneymaker. It will probably be gone in six months.

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 69, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 66):
And I am sure they will fly VX if the fare is right regardless if they resent being called geeks or not.

The geeks don't resent it. You obviously didn't get my point, but that's fine.
I'm just speaking from direct experience with the types who this flight is marketed to. My wife has worked for MySpace, Earthlink and now another web company, and there are three types who work in these places: geeks, hipsters, and shy/nerd people. In general. The geeks won't be offended, but also tend to be the cheapest people on earth and are not the market VX is really going to be coveting. The hipsters are very image conscious and you don't want to insult them if you want their business. The shy/nerd types don't tend to covet flash or bling and who do NOT like to be called geeks.

So my point was that the marketing here is all wrong. They are mocking their own target market. I guess they could be more insulting and just say "finally, an airline for virgins."

Why not something like "Finally, service to San Jose that doesn't suck." Or if you want to be insider, "say goodbye to moo!"

Quoting SANFan (Reply 67):
Is "geek out" really any different (read: worse) than the "nerd-bird" moniker attached to the likes of SJC-AUS routes? I don't think it will make or break the service; I think it's just part of VX marketing trying to be cool.

I don't believe that a valid defense for stupidity is "they are trying to be cool."

Anyway, I fly this route sometimes, I was interested in this new option, I was sent this email from VX, it rubbed me the wrong way.

[Edited 2013-02-06 15:45:45]


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinecofannyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 69):
I'm just speaking from direct experience with the types who this flight is marketed to. My wife has worked for MySpace, Earthlink and now another web company, and there are three types who work in these places: geeks, hipsters, and shy/nerd people. In general. The geeks won't be offended, but also tend to be the cheapest people on earth and are not the market VX is really going to be coveting. The hipsters are very image conscious and you don't want to insult them if you want their business. The shy/nerd types don't tend to covet flash or bling and who do NOT like to be called geeks.

I tend to think this is making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm also work for a web company, am 30 years old and I guess I fall into your hipster group (though if you want to talk about potential to insult... distil distinct personalities into three groups). I hardly found the e-mail insulting, I take no offensive to using the word "geek" to refer to people in the tech industry of which I'm a part, nor will I not fly VX as a result. My girlfriend (also in the VX demographic) laughed at the e-mail and suggested her girlfriends try it for a bachelorette party...if the price is right.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 69):
I don't believe that a valid defense for stupidity is "they are trying to be cool."

Anyway, I fly this route sometimes, I was interested in this new option, I was sent this email from VX, it rubbed me the wrong way.

I neither found it stupid nor did it rub me the wrong way...


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