JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1620 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4350 times:
About the only glimmer of good news to come out of Memphis recently, Southwest under their AirTran banner will add service from Memphis to Chicago, Orlando and Baltimore this summer - from the Memphis Commercial Appeal:
Southwest said in a release that it would operate twice a day service between Memphis and Chicago Midway and once a day to Orlando and Baltimore/Washington.
The flights are in addition to AirTran's five daily roundtrips between Memphis and Atlanta.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5297 posts, RR: 47 Reply 1, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4308 times:
Uh oh, cue the "Is FL/WN gonna make a hub out of MEM" threads...
I don't see a full blown hub, but I think there is room for some more service other than DL
QANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1801 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4213 times:
Great news. I wonder why MEM is one of the last FL stations to be converted over to WN? I can see WN having a 30-35 flt operation out of MEM.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
alggag From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4191 times:
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2): Great news. I wonder why MEM is one of the last FL stations to be converted over to WN? I can see WN having a 30-35 flt operation out of MEM.
Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4156 times:
Quoting alggag (Reply 3): Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights.
Been to MEM lately? WN can have as many gates as they like.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Tdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 306 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
Quoting alggag (Reply 3):
Don't they only have two gates to work with? That would only allow them to run about 20 flights
...and the airport has about 50 empty other gates! In all seriousness, it's just a matter of time before DL doesn't renew many of the A gates, particularly when the B construction is done. WN will be in there with its own metal before too long.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6867 posts, RR: 29 Reply 8, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4065 times:
Everyone keeps talking about WN growing MEM to a 30-40 flight/day operation, but was is the justification?
MEM doesn't appear to be anymore special than dozens of WN mid-sized markets that have less than 20 flights/day.
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4345 posts, RR: 20 Reply 9, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4049 times:
Back around the time SO & NC merged to make RC, the city greatly expanded MEM. Even with DL & RC in full swing there were tons of open gates. This must have been around 1977-78 or so. Everytime I have been through there since there have always been tons of gates open.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4009 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8): MEM doesn't appear to be anymore special than dozens of WN mid-sized markets that have less than 20 flights/day.
Please list the dozens of markets. You are far overestimating the number of WN stations in cities with comparable size and location to MEM that are that small. LBB, CRB and ALB aren't really peers.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
diverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 230 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3991 times:
Quoting Tdan (Reply 7): ...and the airport has about 50 empty other gates! In all seriousness, it's just a matter of time before DL doesn't renew many of the A gates, particularly when the B construction is done. WN will be in there with its own metal before too long.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6358 posts, RR: 34 Reply 12, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3972 times:
Quoting type-rated (Reply 9): Back around the time SO & NC merged to make RC, the city greatly expanded MEM. Even with DL & RC in full swing there were tons of open gates. This must have been around 1977-78 or so.
And the airport looks like it's still stuck in the 1970's. Gray brick, low ceilings, and narrow hallways. It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.
selmer40 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3697 times:
Quote: It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.
In the late 80s, before the improvements we have now, The Memphis NW/KL hub operated with large airplanes-at various times a 747, DC-10s, a 763, a MD-11, a A330, 753s, 752s, 722s, A320s as well as the mentioned DC9s and A319s. With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.
ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3995 posts, RR: 23 Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3613 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 13): So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.
It's broke? News to me. Of course we've only seen the soft/limited launch of it right now so its hard to really judge it until full roll out takes place.
Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1115 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3478 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 12): And the airport looks like it's still stuck in the 1970's. Gray brick, low ceilings, and narrow hallways. It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.
MEM is no worse than CLT in that regard. CLT does fine with what it has and so does MEM.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5297 posts, RR: 47 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2906 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 13): Since WN has no hubs? If 15 flights is a hub and that's the most they will have, I guess you can choose to call that a hub.
I don't want to be caught up in semantics... a "large operation" or a MDW or BWI or something is what I meant
JBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 783 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2242 times:
Good for MEM, but I would never expect a huge build up there. BNA is too close to build up MEM to a "hub".
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2186 times:
The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.
ATL, BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, DEN, LAS would allow for easy connectivity from the majority of the WN network.
I can see MEM being a 15-20 flight per day station, but nothing more.
bobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1360 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1946 times:
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21): The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.
ATL, BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, DEN, LAS would allow for easy connectivity from the majority of the WN network.
I can see MEM being a 15-20 flight per day station, but nothing more.
I mostly agree, but when DL finally pulls the plug on MEM, there will be someone who flies LAX. It might still be DL to enhance LAX hub or it might be WN.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6867 posts, RR: 29 Reply 23, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1923 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10): Please list the dozens of markets. You are far overestimating the number of WN stations in cities with comparable size and location to MEM that are that small. LBB, CRB and ALB aren't really peers.
What would drive MEM to be any different than cities like:
BHM, LIT, SDF, or OKC.
Those markets are within about 15-20 flights per day on average (maybe up to 25 during peak days). They all are connected to the major WN connecting cities/focus cities/hubs-but-we-don't officially call them hubs markets
Anything beyond 15-20 flights requires going into more O&D focused routes when either a) WN is not a significant player or has limited resourced in some of the larger O&D markets (NYC, BOS, DCA) or b) routes are long-and-thin (LAX, SFO)
WN is not going to be flying routes like from MEM to places like SAT, MSP, PIT, ALB
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21): The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.
ATL, BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU, DEN, LAS would allow for easy connectivity from the majority of the WN network.
I can see MEM being a 15-20 flight per day station, but nothing more.
Exactly what I'm thinking. WN is going to focus on their focus cities from MEM. DL relies on RJs as it is even with the power of a connecting hub to make some of these routes and offers even less capacity per day than WN could if they operated just 1 737 on the route.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1912 times:
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 22): I mostly agree, but when DL finally pulls the plug on MEM, there will be someone who flies LAX. It might still be DL to enhance LAX hub or it might be WN.
I also think MEM will get a DAL flight or two once 2014 rolls around. There's a possibility, though I don't know how strong, that MEM will get connected to one or more of what I'll call "medium-sized medium-haul" stations. I'd put MSY, MCI, SAT, AUS and perhaps TPA in that category.
If we are talking about 8 to 12 destinations, that's probably closer to 30 flights than 15 to 20.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
CLT in a state of disaray? Poor, poor CLT and their complete lack of airline service, which has only about 600 daily US flights a day...
Altho, I do wonder if he's talking about the terminals versus the amount and quality of service...
You know what, he is:
Quoting Flaps (Reply 17): Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):And the airport looks like it's still stuck in the 1970's. Gray brick, low ceilings, and narrow hallways. It wouldn't work as a hub with many aircraft larger than a DC-9 or A319.
MEM is no worse than CLT in that regard. CLT does fine with what it has and so does MEM.
I know they added a new runway, or they're about to at least, but have they done any updates to their terminal space at CLT? If that's the case, then my sarcasm is out of line. My bad...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 26, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1858 times:
Quoting steeler83 (Reply 25): I know they added a new runway, or they're about to at least, but have they done any updates to their terminal space at CLT?
Well, D and the original part of E are only about 10 years old and IIRC B and C got facelifts around that time. Not brand new, to be sure, but certainly not 70s like MEM.
CLT and MEM are apples and oranges.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 27, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1689 times:
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 14): Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.
It's operated by FL.
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 16): Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
So whose metal is it? I hope it is WN metal unless the code share is truly fixed.
It's broke? News to me. Of course we've only seen the soft/limited launch of it right now so its hard to really judge it until full roll out takes place.
Well, this is a big deal then. MEM-MDW depends upon the code share. This is the first route they have announced in 18 months or so that expected code share to be functional. If they are now returning to scheduling as if there will be a code share (ATL-SDF expected a code share) then they must be very confident this time...or they are going to have more egg on their face...
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18): Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
Since WN has no hubs? If 15 flights is a hub and that's the most they will have, I guess you can choose to call that a hub.
I don't want to be caught up in semantics... a "large operation" or a MDW or BWI or something is what I meant
IMHO, if Delta closed the "hub" completely and had 20-23 flights per day, this is best case for MEM on WN and DL:
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 28, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1686 times:
This is far from scientific, but just as example of why MEM won't see anywhere close to the service it has now when DL closes up shop....
According to the latest numbers posted on faremeasure, MEM only has more than 100 PDEW to 22 cities. If/when the DL hub goes, MEM will realistically only be served from the major hub markets. MEM-LAX showed 234 daily passengers, which is probably enough for one nonstop on a 737 or A320 sized aircraft. That might be a market that DL would keep post hub closure, but who knows? I still don't see WN flying it. WN only serves cities nonstop from LAX east of (or on) the Mississippi River which have very strong O&D. 243 is a fair number, but it's nothing like what BNA, MDW, STL, ATL, BWI, MSY have...all cities flown by WN nonstop.
For comparison, I've posted the number of cities that see more than 100 PDEW from additional mid-sized metros.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6358 posts, RR: 34 Reply 29, posted (3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1514 times:
Quoting selmer40 (Reply 15): In the late 80s, before the improvements we have now, The Memphis NW/KL hub operated with large airplanes-at various times a 747, DC-10s, a 763, a MD-11, a A330, 753s, 752s, 722s, A320s as well as the mentioned DC9s and A319s. With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.
I doubt the MEM hub was using an A330, an MD-11, or a 753 in the late 1980s. The MEM hub was always heavily reliant on smaller regional aircraft.
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 21): The only other cities that could realistically be added from MEM are HOU, DEN, and maybe LAS.
I think DAL-MEM is a lock post-2014. I don't think MEM-PHX is beyond the realm of possibility, either.
flyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1617 posts, RR: 9 Reply 30, posted (3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1485 times:
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 28): This is far from scientific, but just as example of why MEM won't see anywhere close to the service it has now when DL closes up shop....
While indicative, there's definitely a level of stimulation in various markets which would occur with the introduction of lower fares. There's a good reason that MEM and CVG are only showing about half the number of markets with 100+ PDEW than even some smaller cities: Having among the highest if not THE highest airfares in the country.
FlyPeoria From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1362 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 29): Quoting selmer40 (Reply 15):
In the late 80s, before the improvements we have now, The Memphis NW/KL hub operated with large airplanes-at various times a 747, DC-10s, a 763, a MD-11, a A330, 753s, 752s, 722s, A320s as well as the mentioned DC9s and A319s. With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.
I doubt the MEM hub was using an A330, an MD-11, or a 753 in the late 1980s. The MEM hub was always heavily reliant on smaller regional aircraft.
Well..."in the late 1980s," the A330 had yet to make its first flight. Same with the MD-11 and 757-300 but NW did use a 747-200 on a MEM-MSP roundtrip in 1987. I think they used DC-10s there as well.
JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1620 posts, RR: 3 Reply 32, posted (3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1260 times:
Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 31): I think they used DC-10s there as well.
They did. Almost immediately after the RC/NW merger NW started bringing in DC-10s on the DTW route. I believe there are photos in the database of Northwest Orient-schemed DC-10s at MEM during that time period.
skycub From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 276 posts, RR: 1 Reply 33, posted (3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1208 times:
Quoting selmer40 (Reply 15): With five banks of flights and about 225 departures a day most of the airport's gates were well used.
When were there ever FIVE banks of flights a day in MEM? I am asking that honestly.....I always thought the NW MEM hub existed, mostly, of a three bank operation.
I see a lot of times where there were three, MAYBE four, flights a day to each destination.... but other than flights to some Airlink cities and other hub cities... I don't see where any destinations ever really had more than (usually) three or (occasionally) four flights a day....
While I agree with the number of flights... I am not sure about the number of banks.
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6867 posts, RR: 29 Reply 34, posted (3 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1100 times:
MEM was historically a 3 bank hub that relied heavily on DC-9, 727, and turborprop aircraft. As 727s were phased out the A320 took its place. MEM got ARJs then got a heavy influx of CRJ aircraft to replace DC-9s & turboprops and/or add additional frequency.
MEM got a 4th bank that added an additional round of evening departures in about 2000, but it was then cut post-9/11. The 4th bank returned again for another brief period in about 2003-2004.
MEM never saw a significant amount of widebody (or even 757s) for that matter. MEM never saw more than 2-3 widebodies per day, and maybe about 5-10 757s at is peak. Yes AMS was operated by KLM MD-11, NW DC-10, NW/DL A330, and NW/DL 767. DTW & MSP saw DC-10 and 757 equipment on some flights throughout the day. Outside of those SEA & MCO saw 757 service:
selmer40 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (3 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 951 times:
Quote: Quoting skycub (reply 33)
When were there ever FIVE banks of flights a day in MEM?
My timetables for July 1986 and July 1987 show a fifth bank at 10 PM. A few exanples of departure times in the July 1987
timetable are-- to BHM 9.10a 12.45p 4.20p 8.00p 10.45p -- to DTW 8.55a 12.40p 4.15p 8.20p 10.40p --FSM 9.00a 12.35p 3.50p 8.15p 10.50p --to GLH 9.20a 12.50a 4.20p 8.20p 10.55p -- to HSV 9.10a 12.45p 4.20p 8.00p 10.45p --MSP 9.15a two flights 12.40p two flights 3.55p two flights 8.10p 10.45p --to MCO 8.55a 12.30p 4.15p 8.15p 10.40p --to TUP 6.20a 9.10a12.30p 3.55p 8.15p 1045p.........All of this is history. Returning to the now, the morning paper today says Southwest, with the new flights, may qualify for $375K from the airport competing service fund. Considering how Delta reacted in the ATL-COU market (pulling out) when American got funds, how will Delta react in MEM if Southwest gets funds?
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21229 posts, RR: 19 Reply 36, posted (3 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 879 times:
Quoting selmer40 (Reply 35): Considering how Delta reacted in the ATL-COU market (pulling out) when American got funds, how will Delta react in MEM if Southwest gets funds?
Apples and oranges (I feel like I've said that a lot in this thread). DL doesn't give a rip about COU. At least for now, DL is the carrier of choice for MEM locals.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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