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Delta Ending NRT-ICN  
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33272 posts, RR: 71
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13849 times:

Per GDS, looks like Delta is pulling the plug on Narita-Incheon service. Last flight operates 31-May-2013; zero'd out after that. Interesting move to no longer serve Seoul intra-Asia.

[Edited 2013-02-06 10:32:03]


a.
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13730 times:

What about DTW-ICN? Isn't that a flight on DL metal?

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13597 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Thread starter):

So much easier to outsource to KE. Great for everyone.....other than DL employees. (even though here any minute the normal crowd will be around to say how great it is.)

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 1):

yes.



yep.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13573 times:

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 1):

What about DTW-ICN? Isn't that a flight on DL metal?


Yep still on DL metal.

I think this route is served so much better with KE, especially with the A380



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17822 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13570 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
So much easier to outsource to KE.

KE may be better at flying the route, but more importantly, it can overfly the whole NRT hub in general.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13375 times:

When you think about the options for getting to ICN, you have to wonder who is using the current NRT-ICN service and who would be impacted by this change.

NRT-ICN enables one-connection access to all of DL's NRT flights from the US. Passengers to/from ATL, MSP, JFK, DTW can all easily connect over DTW on the DTW-ICN flight.

West coast gateways, with the exception of PDX have KE flights to ICN.

NRT-ICN is a 757 flight. DL doesn't care about local traffic on this route, that is not the purpose of any of the NRT interport flying.


User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9806 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13372 times:

There's a lot of competition on the route. You have HND-GMP taking the high yielding local traffic, which didn't use to exist. You have a lot of NRT-ICN traffic as well.

I am amazed that UA is still on the route. They don't have that many flights from NRT any more after ending all the China services from NRT. DL has a bigger presence in terms of numbers of flights. Also UA has OZ and NH to codeshare with.

It's a single 757 route up against a lot of heavy weight competition.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 13308 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
West coast gateways, with the exception of PDX have KE flights to ICN.

PDX passengers can do PDX-SEA-ICN on KE. KE code-shares with AS/QX for this purpose.


User currently offlineWidget1580 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 347 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12907 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5):
NRT-ICN enables one-connection access to all of DL's NRT flights from the US. Passengers to/from ATL, MSP, JFK, DTW can all easily connect over DTW on the DTW-ICN flight.

All of which, except MSP, have non-stop service to ICN which eliminates any need for a connection.



KLM | Journeys of Inspiration
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3258 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12895 times:

Quoting Widget1580 (Reply 8):
All of which, except MSP, have non-stop service to ICN which eliminates any need for a connection.

Isn't it speculated that KE may start MSP-ICN?


User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12725 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
So much easier to outsource to KE. Great for everyone.....other than DL employees. (even though here any minute the normal crowd will be around to say how great it is.)

Its far better for Delta employees if Delta would stop bleeding money on NRT-ICN and carry them on DTW-ICN instead. LIke most of the NRT-Asia flying, this one has sucked for years. There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.


User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12725 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9):
Isn't it speculated that KE may start MSP-ICN?

The rumor is out there, and internally rumors have been saying MSP may get another flight to Asia in 2014.
Obviously MSP-ICN is strongly tied to whatever may happen with a potential JV or closer partnership with KE.

Its not happening in 2013. Usually airlines don't start talking about new routes that are 12-18 months out, but in this case I think MSP-ICN is on the radar, albeit DL is already launching new routes to Asia from SEA this year and already committed to additional capacity. They don't want to add too much new capacity to quickly.


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12709 times:

Quite a surprise, though I expect to see more NRT cuts from DL going forward. Any chance they would start ICN from SEA and go head-to-head against KE?

User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1041 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12572 times:

Its also a route that is constantly delayed! I'm not sure I've seen that flight operate on time for more than 3 days in a row


xx
User currently onlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7767 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12095 times:

Quoting usxguy (Reply 13):
Its also a route that is constantly delayed! I'm not sure I've seen that flight operate on time for more than 3 days in a row

It is consistently delayed because the flight will wait for connecting passengers off of any of the flights from US-NRT. If flights from DTW, MSP, ATL, JFK, SFO, LAX, PDX, HNL are running behind they may hold the flight to accomodate connecting passengers.


User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11798 times:

A good move. I hate to see the US-based Airlines flying intra-Asia just because of world events 60+ years ago. I am sure they are just doing it from a profitability perspective but let's leave those routes to the Japanese and Korean airlines

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4515 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11617 times:

On the topic of DL's NRT based intra Asia flights, I believe that DL may relatively soon be flying NRT CGK. With Garuda's imminent Skyteam entrance, Indonesia's record economic growth and the total lack of US service from Indonesia, than would be a most logical move.

User currently offlinehoons90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3077 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11455 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

The end of an era. Northwest started Tokyo-Seoul in 1947.

I flew the route in June 2010, Delta had good service.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11185 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):

If anything, you are predictable.
We are gaining SEA-PVG SEA-HND and your crying that we are loosing this
flight. Look at the big picture. As Jet stated,

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
ts far better for Delta employees if Delta would stop bleeding money on NRT-ICN and carry them on DTW-ICN instead. LIke most of the NRT-Asia flying, this one has sucked for years. There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11968 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11125 times:

Frankly, it was only a matter of time. Given the realities of DL's NRT hub, and the huge KE presence in this market, there was no need for DL to continue flying NRT-ICN. There are some Asia markets - and ICN is one of them - where I think it makes better strategic sense for DL to focus flying on nonstops from U.S. hubs rather than routes through the NRT hub.

User currently onlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 665 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10919 times:

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 12):
Any chance they would start ICN from SEA and go head-to-head against KE?

I would say very likely. Then DL won't miss those between west coast to ICN (assume DTW-ICN covers south/mid/east coast). DL and KE are not JV yet and in last month, DL announced a plan for adding second nonstop ICN-US by 2014. (Link: http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.c...s/article/article.aspx?aid=2963574 although some other Korean articles specifically mentioned 2014.)

KE's NRT-ICN cannot replace DL's flight, because the last one leaves NRT too early, at 5pm (for connections to the last flight bank at ICN, around 9pm).

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
There's a lot of competition on the route. You have HND-GMP taking the high yielding local traffic, which didn't use to exist.

From late March, open sky between Narita-Korea will be finally in effect. KE is already planning to add one more daily flight (to 5 daily from ICN), and many LCCs will follow. In the meantime, HND-GMP covers lots of high yield traffic. According to one link,
http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...annibalisation-from-new-lccs-90656
HND-GMP capacity is now pretty much close to NRT-ICN, although the open sky (which is only to NRT) will wide the gap.

DL has been on a heavy discount event on ICN-NRT, total 200USD for a roundtrip. UA is doing the same event.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10878 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2):
So much easier to outsource to KE. Great for everyone.....other than DL employees.

How is this bad for the employees?

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
Its far better for Delta employees if Delta would stop bleeding money on NRT-ICN and carry them on DTW-ICN instead. LIke most of the NRT-Asia flying, this one has sucked for years. There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.

        



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9213 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10):
There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.

.....Just like ATL-ICN wasn't outsourced by KE. Maybe this time KE would directly replace the capacity though.  
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 18):

If anything, you are predictable.
We are gaining SEA-PVG SEA-HND and your crying that we are loosing this
flight. Look at the big picture. As Jet stated,

How about you tell me how much you have gained over the Atlantic over the last two years....Oh sh*t....Capacity is down what 20-30%?
You look at the big picture, Delta is still getting smaller and smaller. That is going to end up bad for employees. (it already is bad if you want to move up in the company, which is damn near impossible.) If it wasn't for the 717s coming in they would probably be talking about the "f" word again.



yep.
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9091 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
How about you tell me how much you have gained over the Atlantic over the last two years....Oh sh*t....Capacity is down what 20-30%?

what does europe have to do with this? This is about intra asian routes. All airlines have cut capacity to Europe.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
You look at the big picture, Delta is still getting smaller and smaller.

How are they getting smaller?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
That is going to end up bad for employees. (it already is bad if you want to move up in the company, which is damn near impossible.)

I beg to differ...



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10645 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9071 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
You look at the big picture, Delta is still getting smaller and smaller. That is going to end up bad for employees.

And the profits go higher and higher. What's worse for employees.......reducing capacity and raising profits or putting that capacity back on, flying the a/c 2/3 full and losing money on them? Then what happens with the employees. Once the economy improves (someday?) here and in Europe, they may indeed increase capacity, but not now.......it would be just plain foolish.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22):
(it already is bad if you want to move up in the company, which is damn near impossible.)

Be patient, if you are able. You haven't been there all that long. If you want it (and if your attitude improves) it will come.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 jetlanta : Once again, you have no idea what you were talking about. KE flew ATL-ICN way before DL ever did. DL added its own service. It sucked for many reason
26 context : I'm hoping they don't. Let's not forget that OZ is offering 5/weekly service on an A333 so adding another service might make this a junk-yield route.
27 LAXintl : I'd like to finally see a Delta/Korean JV. DL/KE could do very much together across the Pacific and make better use of flowing traffic over the the st
28 mayor : I keep seeing and hearing rumors of it, but that's about all.
29 rwsea : I think the future of DL's interport service lies in two types of destinations: those with bad yields that can't support a nonstop from the US (i.e.
30 usdcaguy : Quite a surprise, though I expect to see more NRT cuts from DL going forward. I think what you're saying makes sense, but it's hard to determine wheth
31 davescj : I agree. I would like to see the JV. I think even a limited JV would make the most biz sense. Now the ICN has the non stops, it makes no sense to fly
32 Post contains images cokepopper : I don't think you'll ever "get it". SMH You knew all about the cyclical nature of this industry before you said YES. The company is doing well, there
33 huaiwei : 100% agree on this one. We cry out in despair each time Asian-based airlines try to fly fifth-freedom on long, thin routes which are difficult to fly
34 Cubsrule : As far as the US is concerned, yes. I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by "handed." Surely, you aren't arguing that Japan should prohibit fi
35 panamair : Sure, JL used to fly JFK-GRU and full traffic rights between the two points.
36 unityofsaints : Please elaborate. Was it the Americans helping the region get back on its feet or military interests?
37 HeeseokKoo : I searched articles but not too much information. It seems Northwest launched many Asian routes on July, 1947, and one of them was 3 weekly DC-4 flig
38 rwsea : Pretty much. The US is quite liberal with fifth freedom flying. Several Asian carriers fly or have flown routes to GRU from LAX/JFK/etc. (including J
39 mah4546 : Japanese airlines can fly from the U.S. to any third country. The only roadblock is whether or not that third country will give them the traffic righ
40 davescj : The margins might be made up by caring a mix of pax on-going from the US and Japanese pax. In theory, I suppose, even pax going ICN-NRT- MNL/TPE for
41 cyberual : That's why it was mentioned in another post that DL is closing its SEL regional f/a based as there are no intra Asian cities out of SEL these crew can
42 SurfandSnow : Hardly surprising. The yields on this must have been terrible, so much so that NH has also decided to end it. Taking ground transportation and flight
43 LAXintl : For UA, I dont think so at the moment. First the flight ops with ANA as part of the JV, but UA really needs the capacity from ICN. The SFO-ICN is oft
44 AirAfreak : I wonder if DL would consider flying NRT/HND to GMP. I've flown DTW-ICN in BizElite and really enjoyed the service, especially the meals. The Korean M
45 LAXintl : Over time I suspect they will follow the UA lead and further reduce intra-Asia flying. But lets look at what they have now (I used June 2013 schedule
46 Viscount724 : Why do you consider those beach market flights by DL (and UA) any less valuable than their many other beach market flights from the mainland U.S.? Th
47 Post contains images commavia : I generally agree with all of your assessment. I have been arguing for years that DL's long-term prospects at NRT are going to likely end up looking
48 LAXintl : They are incredibly competitive markets that are sold in bulk by Japanese tour operators. US carriers like DL are disadvantaged growingly in this typ
49 toobz : Commavia..honestly I don't know the yields but PDX-NRT-PDX does very well load wise. Flown it many times and barely got on. Been left behind in Tokyo
50 adamh8297 : ROR is not the easiest nor the cheapest to get to. Its not that competitive when you only have Air Mike with the only true daily service to Palau. DL
51 PHX787 : Alright i'm going to go through these and use what I know about Japanese markets and Delta to see what I can come up with: Agreed. A 777 from SEA can
52 LAXintl : Yes never quite put a finger on it why DL (and NW) have been so troubled in HKG. I could see how a smaller market like Singapore be a challenge for D
53 Post contains links PHX787 : That doesn't seem economical at all to me..... if they needed access back to the states couldn't they do a NRT-GUM-HNL routing with pax on board? htt
54 jetlanta : In actuality, the Japan-Beach markets are some of the best international markets in the system. This exactly WHY Delta keeps them when it seems like
55 deltairlines : So much so that I wouldn't be shocked to see the ICN slot at Narita be used to add another frequency to one of these beach markets.
56 SR117 : The super strong yen had some say in the good performance of the Japan-Guam/Honolulu flights. Let's hope the weaker yen doesn't hurt them too much. M
57 adamh8297 : ANC?
58 PHX787 : Was it a 757? I thought it was a 330 from NRT to ICN. DL doesn't have a flight from NRT to ANC so I'm assuming that's the ferry route back to the sta
59 steex : It has been a 757 for a while now, but had been a 330 previously. I flew ICN-NRT on the 757 a few months ago, don't think I'll have another chance to
60 hoons90 : When NW was operating it: 747-200 up until early 2003 747-400 for the remainder of 2003 DC-10-30 for the first half of 2004 A330-200 from August 2004
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