mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11775 times:
Per GDS, looks like Delta is pulling the plug on Narita-Incheon service. Last flight operates 31-May-2013; zero'd out after that. Interesting move to no longer serve Seoul intra-Asia.
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8589 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11522 times:
So much easier to outsource to KE. Great for everyone.....other than DL employees. (even though here any minute the normal crowd will be around to say how great it is.)
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15729 posts, RR: 48 Reply 4, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11495 times:
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6872 posts, RR: 29 Reply 5, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11298 times:
When you think about the options for getting to ICN, you have to wonder who is using the current NRT-ICN service and who would be impacted by this change.
NRT-ICN enables one-connection access to all of DL's NRT flights from the US. Passengers to/from ATL, MSP, JFK, DTW can all easily connect over DTW on the DTW-ICN flight.
West coast gateways, with the exception of PDX have KE flights to ICN.
NRT-ICN is a 757 flight. DL doesn't care about local traffic on this route, that is not the purpose of any of the NRT interport flying.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8745 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11297 times:
There's a lot of competition on the route. You have HND-GMP taking the high yielding local traffic, which didn't use to exist. You have a lot of NRT-ICN traffic as well.
I am amazed that UA is still on the route. They don't have that many flights from NRT any more after ending all the China services from NRT. DL has a bigger presence in terms of numbers of flights. Also UA has OZ and NH to codeshare with.
It's a single 757 route up against a lot of heavy weight competition.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Widget1580 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 338 posts, RR: 16 Reply 8, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10832 times:
Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 5): NRT-ICN enables one-connection access to all of DL's NRT flights from the US. Passengers to/from ATL, MSP, JFK, DTW can all easily connect over DTW on the DTW-ICN flight.
All of which, except MSP, have non-stop service to ICN which eliminates any need for a connection.
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2903 posts, RR: 28 Reply 10, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10651 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2): So much easier to outsource to KE. Great for everyone.....other than DL employees. (even though here any minute the normal crowd will be around to say how great it is.)
Its far better for Delta employees if Delta would stop bleeding money on NRT-ICN and carry them on DTW-ICN instead. LIke most of the NRT-Asia flying, this one has sucked for years. There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6872 posts, RR: 29 Reply 11, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10651 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9): Isn't it speculated that KE may start MSP-ICN?
The rumor is out there, and internally rumors have been saying MSP may get another flight to Asia in 2014.
Obviously MSP-ICN is strongly tied to whatever may happen with a potential JV or closer partnership with KE.
Its not happening in 2013. Usually airlines don't start talking about new routes that are 12-18 months out, but in this case I think MSP-ICN is on the radar, albeit DL is already launching new routes to Asia from SEA this year and already committed to additional capacity. They don't want to add too much new capacity to quickly.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6872 posts, RR: 29 Reply 14, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10020 times:
Quoting usxguy (Reply 13): Its also a route that is constantly delayed! I'm not sure I've seen that flight operate on time for more than 3 days in a row
It is consistently delayed because the flight will wait for connecting passengers off of any of the flights from US-NRT. If flights from DTW, MSP, ATL, JFK, SFO, LAX, PDX, HNL are running behind they may hold the flight to accomodate connecting passengers.
nrt1011 From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 100 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9722 times:
A good move. I hate to see the US-based Airlines flying intra-Asia just because of world events 60+ years ago. I am sure they are just doing it from a profitability perspective but let's leave those routes to the Japanese and Korean airlines
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9542 times:
On the topic of DL's NRT based intra Asia flights, I believe that DL may relatively soon be flying NRT CGK. With Garuda's imminent Skyteam entrance, Indonesia's record economic growth and the total lack of US service from Indonesia, than would be a most logical move.
cokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1092 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9111 times:
If anything, you are predictable.
We are gaining SEA-PVG SEA-HND and your crying that we are loosing this
flight. Look at the big picture. As Jet stated,
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10): ts far better for Delta employees if Delta would stop bleeding money on NRT-ICN and carry them on DTW-ICN instead. LIke most of the NRT-Asia flying, this one has sucked for years. There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.
commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 19, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9051 times:
Frankly, it was only a matter of time. Given the realities of DL's NRT hub, and the huge KE presence in this market, there was no need for DL to continue flying NRT-ICN. There are some Asia markets - and ICN is one of them - where I think it makes better strategic sense for DL to focus flying on nonstops from U.S. hubs rather than routes through the NRT hub.
HeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 521 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8845 times:
Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 12): Any chance they would start ICN from SEA and go head-to-head against KE?
I would say very likely. Then DL won't miss those between west coast to ICN (assume DTW-ICN covers south/mid/east coast). DL and KE are not JV yet and in last month, DL announced a plan for adding second nonstop ICN-US by 2014. (Link: http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.c...s/article/article.aspx?aid=2963574 although some other Korean articles specifically mentioned 2014.)
KE's NRT-ICN cannot replace DL's flight, because the last one leaves NRT too early, at 5pm (for connections to the last flight bank at ICN, around 9pm).
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6): There's a lot of competition on the route. You have HND-GMP taking the high yielding local traffic, which didn't use to exist.
From late March, open sky between Narita-Korea will be finally in effect. KE is already planning to add one more daily flight (to 5 daily from ICN), and many LCCs will follow. In the meantime, HND-GMP covers lots of high yield traffic. According to one link, http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...annibalisation-from-new-lccs-90656
HND-GMP capacity is now pretty much close to NRT-ICN, although the open sky (which is only to NRT) will wide the gap.
DL has been on a heavy discount event on ICN-NRT, total 200USD for a roundtrip. UA is doing the same event.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 703 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8804 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 2): So much easier to outsource to KE. Great for everyone.....other than DL employees.
How is this bad for the employees?
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10): Its far better for Delta employees if Delta would stop bleeding money on NRT-ICN and carry them on DTW-ICN instead. LIke most of the NRT-Asia flying, this one has sucked for years. There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
Deltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8589 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7139 times:
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 10): There is no revenue sharing with KE, so it isn't being "outsourced" it is being abandoned.
.....Just like ATL-ICN wasn't outsourced by KE. Maybe this time KE would directly replace the capacity though.
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 18):
If anything, you are predictable.
We are gaining SEA-PVG SEA-HND and your crying that we are loosing this
flight. Look at the big picture. As Jet stated,
How about you tell me how much you have gained over the Atlantic over the last two years....Oh sh*t....Capacity is down what 20-30%?
You look at the big picture, Delta is still getting smaller and smaller. That is going to end up bad for employees. (it already is bad if you want to move up in the company, which is damn near impossible.) If it wasn't for the 717s coming in they would probably be talking about the "f" word again.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 703 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7017 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): How about you tell me how much you have gained over the Atlantic over the last two years....Oh sh*t....Capacity is down what 20-30%?
what does europe have to do with this? This is about intra asian routes. All airlines have cut capacity to Europe.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): You look at the big picture, Delta is still getting smaller and smaller.
How are they getting smaller?
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): That is going to end up bad for employees. (it already is bad if you want to move up in the company, which is damn near impossible.)
I beg to differ...
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9193 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6997 times:
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): You look at the big picture, Delta is still getting smaller and smaller. That is going to end up bad for employees.
And the profits go higher and higher. What's worse for employees.......reducing capacity and raising profits or putting that capacity back on, flying the a/c 2/3 full and losing money on them? Then what happens with the employees. Once the economy improves (someday?) here and in Europe, they may indeed increase capacity, but not now.......it would be just plain foolish.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): (it already is bad if you want to move up in the company, which is damn near impossible.)
Be patient, if you are able. You haven't been there all that long. If you want it (and if your attitude improves) it will come.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 jetlanta: Once again, you have no idea what you were talking about. KE flew ATL-ICN way before DL ever did. DL added its own service. It sucked for many reason
26 context: I'm hoping they don't. Let's not forget that OZ is offering 5/weekly service on an A333 so adding another service might make this a junk-yield route.
27 LAXintl: I'd like to finally see a Delta/Korean JV. DL/KE could do very much together across the Pacific and make better use of flowing traffic over the the st
28 mayor: I keep seeing and hearing rumors of it, but that's about all.
29 rwsea: I think the future of DL's interport service lies in two types of destinations: those with bad yields that can't support a nonstop from the US (i.e.
30 usdcaguy: Quite a surprise, though I expect to see more NRT cuts from DL going forward. I think what you're saying makes sense, but it's hard to determine wheth
31 davescj: I agree. I would like to see the JV. I think even a limited JV would make the most biz sense. Now the ICN has the non stops, it makes no sense to fly
32 cokepopper: I don't think you'll ever "get it". SMH You knew all about the cyclical nature of this industry before you said YES. The company is doing well, there
33 huaiwei: 100% agree on this one. We cry out in despair each time Asian-based airlines try to fly fifth-freedom on long, thin routes which are difficult to fly
34 Cubsrule: As far as the US is concerned, yes. I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by "handed." Surely, you aren't arguing that Japan should prohibit fi
35 panamair: Sure, JL used to fly JFK-GRU and full traffic rights between the two points.
36 unityofsaints: Please elaborate. Was it the Americans helping the region get back on its feet or military interests?
37 HeeseokKoo: I searched articles but not too much information. It seems Northwest launched many Asian routes on July, 1947, and one of them was 3 weekly DC-4 flig
38 rwsea: Pretty much. The US is quite liberal with fifth freedom flying. Several Asian carriers fly or have flown routes to GRU from LAX/JFK/etc. (including J
39 mah4546: Japanese airlines can fly from the U.S. to any third country. The only roadblock is whether or not that third country will give them the traffic righ
40 davescj: The margins might be made up by caring a mix of pax on-going from the US and Japanese pax. In theory, I suppose, even pax going ICN-NRT- MNL/TPE for
41 cyberual: That's why it was mentioned in another post that DL is closing its SEL regional f/a based as there are no intra Asian cities out of SEL these crew can
42 SurfandSnow: Hardly surprising. The yields on this must have been terrible, so much so that NH has also decided to end it. Taking ground transportation and flight
43 LAXintl: For UA, I dont think so at the moment. First the flight ops with ANA as part of the JV, but UA really needs the capacity from ICN. The SFO-ICN is oft
44 AirAfreak: I wonder if DL would consider flying NRT/HND to GMP. I've flown DTW-ICN in BizElite and really enjoyed the service, especially the meals. The Korean M
45 LAXintl: Over time I suspect they will follow the UA lead and further reduce intra-Asia flying. But lets look at what they have now (I used June 2013 schedule
46 Viscount724: Why do you consider those beach market flights by DL (and UA) any less valuable than their many other beach market flights from the mainland U.S.? Th
47 commavia: I generally agree with all of your assessment. I have been arguing for years that DL's long-term prospects at NRT are going to likely end up looking
48 LAXintl: They are incredibly competitive markets that are sold in bulk by Japanese tour operators. US carriers like DL are disadvantaged growingly in this typ
49 toobz: Commavia..honestly I don't know the yields but PDX-NRT-PDX does very well load wise. Flown it many times and barely got on. Been left behind in Tokyo
50 adamh8297: ROR is not the easiest nor the cheapest to get to. Its not that competitive when you only have Air Mike with the only true daily service to Palau. DL
51 PHX787: Alright i'm going to go through these and use what I know about Japanese markets and Delta to see what I can come up with: Agreed. A 777 from SEA can
52 LAXintl: Yes never quite put a finger on it why DL (and NW) have been so troubled in HKG. I could see how a smaller market like Singapore be a challenge for D
53 PHX787: That doesn't seem economical at all to me..... if they needed access back to the states couldn't they do a NRT-GUM-HNL routing with pax on board? htt
54 jetlanta: In actuality, the Japan-Beach markets are some of the best international markets in the system. This exactly WHY Delta keeps them when it seems like
55 deltairlines: So much so that I wouldn't be shocked to see the ICN slot at Narita be used to add another frequency to one of these beach markets.
56 SR117: The super strong yen had some say in the good performance of the Japan-Guam/Honolulu flights. Let's hope the weaker yen doesn't hurt them too much. M
58 PHX787: Was it a 757? I thought it was a 330 from NRT to ICN. DL doesn't have a flight from NRT to ANC so I'm assuming that's the ferry route back to the sta
59 steex: It has been a 757 for a while now, but had been a 330 previously. I flew ICN-NRT on the 757 a few months ago, don't think I'll have another chance to
60 hoons90: When NW was operating it: 747-200 up until early 2003 747-400 for the remainder of 2003 DC-10-30 for the first half of 2004 A330-200 from August 2004
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