Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Frontier Part 41  
User currently offlineiowaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 20547 times:

Due to length, please continue the discussion here.

Previous thread: New Frontier #40 (by iowaman Jan 1 2013 in Civil Aviation)

246 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 20465 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

TTN should be careful spending major money but they NEED to do something about the non-existent bathroom after security and the potential overcrowding when F9 launches non-FL (or LA). If one flight gets delayed and another group comes for their flight there is going to be no room. They need to bring a trailer in use that for baggage claim and use the baggage claim area for security (obviously putting up walls to make things secure then they can take the waiting area and turn it into one big area. Hopefully the engineer will have some plans.

Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5631 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20476 times:

Now that Siegel has kicked all of its remaining outstation workers to tbe curb... His next step is to slash throats in Denver. He is going for the pilots and flight attendants pay next. This mans history has repeated itself many times. He goes straight for the workers and drains them clean.

I wish the above and below wing employees had voted to be union. I know the anti union lovers will burn me for saying this..... But this is why it is so important for workers in the airlines to be union. Contracts help prevent Siegels of the world from just walking up and snatching your wallets out of your pocket.

I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1979 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20453 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 2):
Contracts help prevent Siegels of the world from just walking up and snatching your wallets out of your pocket.

What threshold of flights do you expect a ticket/baggage agent contract would have required to keep mainline employees? Even in the most pro-labor contract imaginable, I doubt most F9 stations would reach that level.

Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20410 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 2):
He is going for the pilots and flight attendants pay next.

If that was the plan, then why didn't Bryan Bedford do that in 2011 during the major restructure?

And...it would seem quite the revisionist history to blame him for everything that happened at US Airways. He told the employees exactly what needed to happen. Their costs, including labor, were absolutely out of control. They didn't like hearing that, and he left.

"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27672 posts, RR: 81
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 20253 times:

January traffic:


"For the month, Frontier’s load factor increased by 7 points from January 2012 to a new January record of 87%.

Frontier’s traffic decreased 11%, to 0.8 billion revenue passenger miles (RPMs) on a 16% decrease in capacity to 0.9 billion available seat miles (ASMs). Frontier Airlines served 0.8 million passengers in January."


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27672 posts, RR: 81
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 20216 times:

A good article on CVG:


"Can Frontier survive where others dared fly?

When Frontier Airlines launches operations at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport this spring, it will be the latest low-cost carrier to give it a go here.

So will a low-cost carrier work here this time?"

Delta has responded, it has matched fares. It was planning to use an A320 on the route for the summer anyway, but has brought forward the start of that to early May and will be flying daily instead of 6 x weekly.

But - so far - that's it and I think Frontier can live with that sort of response and should have been expecting at least that.


"Frontier ticket bookings on the CVG-to-Denver flight are “very strong, somewhat ahead of expectations,” airline spokeswoman Kate O’Malley said."


[Edited 2013-02-07 10:19:08]

aeternum nauta
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3202 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 20134 times:

Quoting Jerseyguy in previous thread:

For one thing TTN has twice the amount of people within a 35-40 minute drive.
Philadelphia and Newark are more crowded and delay prone than DEN.

[this regards my question about why TTN service should succeed while COS service did not]

I've seen that mentioned. I just found the FAA Regional Airspace Study, which delineates about 5 million in TTN's catchment of 9 counties. I can't find specifics, but I'm estimating the catchment for COS is something over 1 million. As far as catchments are concerned, an airport in less-dense Colorado should have a much larger catchment, with fewer airport choices. Trenton's designated catchment is generous, given some counties are closer to EWR or PHL. If I were similary generous about COS, I'd be able to include half of Denver's metro, so add another million, and another 200,000 for counties immediately south. Still, as you say, about half of TTNs.

True on the comparison to large, delay-prone airports. Another time factor is simple the big-airport time budget, needing more time to park and get through. Works for me, but not for passengers who would still elect to bypass the closer, more convenient airport.

Quoting FRNT787 from previous thread:

The market overlap is a huge part of it in my opinion. TTN by default is an improvement because it doesn't have it.

Are you saying TTN won't have market overlap with PHL or EWR (or even ABE)? Unless I'm reading it wrong, I disagree.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 20041 times:

F9 press release for the New England and mid Atlantic snow event this weekend. http://media.flyfrontier.com/article....cfm?article_id=5431&view_id=1290&

Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 999 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19979 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Frontier in CVG will probably get handled by DGS irregardless of Delta also flying to DEN on an A320.

User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 19857 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 7):
Are you saying TTN won't have market overlap with PHL or EWR (or even ABE)? Unless I'm reading it wrong, I disagree.

No. I am saying that it won't have the kind of overlap for F9 that COS did. Certainly the market there overlaps with PHL and EWR. F9 is able to serve those markets through TTN. COS, in my opinion, did not provide that oppurtunity. I do not deny market overlap, that's why ABE is going. I just see the impact of that overlap for F9 as different than COS

"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinen917me From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 19565 times:

Ok..have to chime in... on the outsourcing conference call it was brought up that 60% of the stations are outsourced... but what wasnt brought up was the fact that of those 60% how many are seasonal or less than daily? Yes.. it makes sense to outsource the seasonal/less than daily, but not your daily year round cities. That 60% sounds good until you break it down.

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 19537 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 7):
For one thing TTN has twice the amount of people within a 35-40 minute drive.
Philadelphia and Newark are more crowded and delay prone than DEN.

[this regards my question about why TTN service should succeed while COS service did not]

COS failed simply because airfares from DEN are so cheap, and significantly more destinations and frequencies are offered from there as well. The COS experiment was WestPac 2.0.

As for TTN, I think fares are already pretty low to Florida, especially from EWR. I think TTN will get more people from PHL than EWR. As for the non Florida cities, they chose destinations where there is no Low cost carrier service to/from PHL/EWR (save ATL) so the catchment area may be more balanced to both EWR and PHL.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27672 posts, RR: 81
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 19514 times:

Quoting n917me (Reply 11):
Ok..have to chime in... on the outsourcing conference call it was brought up that 60% of the stations are outsourced... but what wasnt brought up was the fact that of those 60% how many are seasonal or less than daily? Yes.. it makes sense to outsource the seasonal/less than daily, but not your daily year round cities. That 60% sounds good until you break it down.

I don't know why it doesn't make sense.

"Old" Frontier consistently lost money and despite the present profitability, Frontier's costs are still too high relative to its peer group - Allegiant and Spirit.


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 19353 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rampart (Reply 7):

I just read a February 3rd editorial by Robert Prunetti, CEO of the Mid-Jersey Chamber of Commerce and he said there are 4 million people within a 40 minute drive of TTN. There is only 3 million people in the combined Denver Metro area and the Colorado Springs metro area.

Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3236 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 19342 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 9):
Frontier in CVG will probably get handled by DGS irregardless of Delta also flying to DEN on an A320.

Doesn't matter.

United had the Frontier-OKC contract for part of 2012. Despite both having flights departing minutes apart to Denver. Guess it's not a conflict of interest.

Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 19203 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Has anyone else flown thru TTN? I am a bit anxious that once the new flights come in any delays could cause a bit of an issue with the overcrowding if people from more than one flight were to be in the airport before the gate area is expanded.

Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 18935 times:

DEN-FAI may see some additional people volume this year in that 2013 is the Centennial of the first mountain climbers to reach the south peak on Mt. McKinley (Denali) a.k.a.or the Great One in 1913.


The launch date for the trek up the mountain is scheduled for June 7. Historically tourism and mountain climbing enthusiast visit the park to monitor the climbers progress and cheer them on as the climbers trek the tallest mountain in North America.

Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2097 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 18917 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 9):
Frontier in CVG will probably get handled by DGS irregardless of Delta also flying to DEN on an A320.

Frontier in CVG is handled by mainline DL, not DGS.

Good goes around!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 10269 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 18880 times:

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 18):

Being handled by Delta is a very odd choice. Perhaps there was no other option. General rule is never to be handled by a nonstop competitor.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27672 posts, RR: 81
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 18794 times:

Connecting dots - DEN-GSO - 3 x weekly.


Frontier Announces Nonstop Seasonal Service Between Denver and Greensboro Beginning May 1"


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 18772 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Connecting dots - DEN-GSO - 3 x weekly.

I like it, that makes sense. Two in a row. GSO is a big enough area to make that work, whether or not they market it properly is on them. RDU has N/S to DEN on WN I believe, so F9 setting up in GSO replicates what they've done in CLE and CVG.

If/when WN adds CLT-DEN, I'm interested to see what F9's response will be.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 18732 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Connecting dots - DEN-GSO - 3 x weekly.

There used to be a Carolina thread here, but haven't seen this pop up for a while. I would think that the AA/US merger would have a lot going on in that.

And going further here, there were a few posters on this Carolina thread that have been predicting this DEN-GSO route for about the last 4-5 years.......... and it looks as though they are finally correct with this. So............. where's the gloating? (  )

Anyways..... I personally think that this is a good route, especially for the folks around GSO. And even though GSO is sorta between RDU and CLT, I also personally think that the folks around there will be happy with F9 here, and this is a route that will grow as well with time.

Good luck to F9 and GSO............ and now time to impress that old saying of "use it or lose it."


[Edited 2013-02-11 10:06:21]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 27672 posts, RR: 81
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 18707 times:

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 18):
Frontier in CVG is handled by mainline DL, not DGS.
Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
Being handled by Delta is a very odd choice.

As I suggested in another thread - Frontier's relationship with Delta "may" have changed. Others disagreed, of course.

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 21):
If/when WN adds CLT-DEN, I'm interested to see what F9's response will be.

I doubt that Frontier would respond to that, at least not directly. Silent Siegel's MO is to make whatever Southwest does - as far as is possible - irrelevant to what Frontier does.


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1338 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 18687 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 23):
As I suggested in another thread - Frontier's relationship with Delta "may" have changed. Others disagreed, of course.

Well, at the very least Republic's relationship with Delta certainly seems to have strengthened.

At the end of 2009, RAH operated 40 aircraft for DL. 24 E145s and 16 E175.

The next change was 2011, when they added 14 E170s to the total contract.

By the end of 2012, There was an addition of 7 E145s.

This year: RAH has agreed to provide two additional E145s through April. In April, they will add 8 more aircraft to the DL Chautauqua contract, and extend the contract on the aircraft added last year through the first half of 2014.

At the end of this year, RAH will operate 30 E Jets and 41 E145s.

"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
25 Post contains images point2point : Maybe it will end up DL as being some party in this anticipated F9 divestiture?
26 Post contains images rampart : No, WestPac 1.0 was a longer experiment. And it caved due to competition from and lure of... Frontier. I still maintain it might have persisted if it
27 kcrwflyer : That why they're leaving DAY and CAK?
28 Post contains images mariner : It isn't always what it seems. Both the moves consolidate Frontier operations - and connect the dots. They have to have aircraft at both CLE and CVG
29 Post contains links uncgso : Good news! this has been a long time coming...now cmon Triad, support it!! also looks like PTAA want F9 to eventually open a focus city at GSO ... an
30 planesarecool : There are 3 Frontier A319s outside the Aeroturbine hangar in Goodyear, the most recent of which arrived today. Are these being parted out/scrapped?
31 smoot4208 : I wouldn't be at all surprised to see DEN-COU as well. That would round out the MCO routes with all of them being connected to DEN. I don't count SHD
32 Post contains images mariner : I wouldn't fall over in shock to see DEN-COU. As to SHD, well - maybe. But the airport guy was right, the loads have been very good. I think there's
33 n7371f : At least one of them is going back. I believe 2 319's are going back in these upcoming months. A used 319 from China just arrived in GYR as a replace
34 GentFromAlaska : Of course they would but as a business are you going to run or hide from your potential foes. On the marketing side there are several ways to make JN
35 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : It appears a several more airports are RNP capable since the last time I looked. Courtesy Honeywell http://www.mygdc.com/attachment/cpsf...AR_Deep_Di
36 kcrwflyer : So by reacting to Southwest, they have positioned themselves to not have to react to Southwest anymore. Clever. What does good mean? Numbers please if
37 Post contains links mariner : If you count CAK to CLE and DAY to CVG as a reaction to Southwest then - yes. I guess. I note that even with the presence of Airtran on DEN-CAK for h
38 Post contains links smoot4208 : http://www.farebuzz.com/blog/post/20...onal-airport-to-orlando-route.aspx Kate O' Malley states that there was a huge lack of demand on the route. Air
39 mariner : She said a wee bit more than that: "Kate O’Malley, spokeswomen for Frontier Airlines said that Frontier airline flight between Shenandoah Valley an
40 kcrwflyer : Agreed. Which is why I don't understand how a 2x daily station that was strong for years suddenly isn't as good as 4x weekly to CLE. I'd have to call
41 mariner : It's a process, a quite complex and really quite sophisticated dance. It began when Silent Siegel took over a year ago and an essential part of the r
42 GentFromAlaska : "said that Frontier airline flights between Shenandoah Valley and Orlando will be discontinued during the summer season". If you are familiar with th
43 smoot4208 : It was telling that when the service started, they had already made the decision to only guarantee service until April while COU never had an end dat
44 GentFromAlaska : In economics it is generally understood as two for the price of one. Several carriers still think quite highly of tag markets and they do seem to wor
45 smoot4208 : Where domestically is this the case? In Alaska it might work simply because people don't have a choice. They'd be stupid to not allow connections in
46 kcrwflyer : Those guys don't even know what an airplane is. I understand your perspective, but when you're talking about flights, there is a cost to intentionall
47 GentFromAlaska : Tag has two meanings in my mind; one stop with no change of aircraft and or one or more flights meet at a micro hub (for lack of a better term) which
48 GentFromAlaska : I saw one episode where one of Appalachia's finest suspected a pilot-less plane or ATF drone flying above his his hooch! I originally thought he may
49 PlanesNTrains : I think the difference, as you suggest, is that MDW might offer limited connections. It's also "midway" between TTN and DEN, which is another way to
50 PacificF27 : JNO-BLI and beyond does sound interesting, however, I suspect SEA is the destination of choice (necessity?) for Juneau residents. The question is-- Ho
51 Post contains images mariner : Pizzaz? LOL. There are a few. When they first announced DEN-CUN it had pizzaz, it got everyone's attention, and DEN-ANC and DEN-SJO. DEN-PUJ has it,
52 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : And potentially on the Fort Dodge, Iowa route. There seems to be a flight deck routing fetish for that routing which makes it a favorite east to west
53 smoot4208 : If you're worried about an AS response, then BLI-JNU would elicit one much quicker than DEN-JNU. How did AS respond when F9 started DEN-ANC/FAI? To m
54 PlanesNTrains : I believe that when F9 announced DEN-ANC, AS then announced it as well. It's been around ever since from what I can tell. -Dave
55 smoot4208 : Sorry memory lapse there. ANC is also a hub for AS though. FAI isn't, and there was no reaction to DEN-FAI. You could be right in that they may react
56 GentFromAlaska : I'm not so sure about that If it were PAE or BFI-JNU I might agree. In a ULCC model F9 in my mind could sell the JNU-BLI roudtrip fare for $400.00 ro
57 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I've found what could be another niche market for F9; larger than SHD and closer to COU which according to what I'm reading offers considerably more F
58 Post contains images jerseyguy : Of course and they could call it "Princeton/French Lick, IN" (Princeton, IN is nearby)
59 klwright69 : To discuss catchment area, we should look a little closer. Very few people I know in DEN ever use Colorado Springs airport. People in this forum who
60 GentFromAlaska : I'm not sure how to read this. Possibly some additional retaliation by DL against F9 for CVG. DL is adding seasonal Saturday non-stop service from AT
61 mariner : i wouldn't read any more into it that what it is - Delta sorting out its summer schedule. MSO is only a Saturday flight, and retaliation is when Delt
62 rampart : True, now. And they're not twin cities, but for airports, obviously DEN is just as good as COS for the Coloradospringers, so de facto twin for them.
63 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I suppose I'm reading between the lines. I'm curious what "Beyond Bellingham" might mean. http://www.flyfrontier.com/Home/spec...cals/denver-bellingha
64 kingcavalier : Gent - I believe the Beyond is simple marketing since F9 markets BLI as Bellingham/Vancouver. It is so much cheaper to fly into BLI and drive across t
65 uncgso : hey all ... first off i will assume GSO-MCO has worked as well as planned or DEN would not have been announced ... considering this, and if GSO-DEN do
66 MSYtristar : I'd like to just say that I probably overreacted some last week when talking about the pending outsourcing. For the vast majority of my career, I've b
67 GentFromAlaska : Very well said! At the end of the day F9 is just another "Thing with Wings" I think many of us who have hung around here across the years generally f
68 Post contains links mariner : Or not, as the case may be. New summer service to EUG and FAT - both 3 x weekly. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fronti...nstop-denver-eugene-170000446
69 smoot4208 : MCO-COU/GSO/OMA end in early May now. Not sure if those are seasonal cuts or permanently cut
70 mariner : I don't think anyone is sure, except maybe at Frontier. The most interesting change, to me, is the addition of a frequency DEN-CVG. It was announced
71 GentFromAlaska : I wasn't to too far off with my RDM guess. The DEN-EUG service will compete with Sky-west DEN-EUG service offered on a CR7. Surprisingly EUG receives
72 mariner : FAT is indeed a redo, and interesting because of that. It lasted for a couple of years or less and the problem was not summer, when it did fine but -
73 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : STS seems like it would be a niche airport. I think back to the time I spent in Petaluma flying in an out of OAK and SFO. I suppose Napa Valley would
74 GentFromAlaska : Correction Ozark offered service whose IATA code was OZ.
75 n7371f : Seriously, at what point does the heat start focusing on Daniel Shurz and his planning group on Tower Road. These route selections are becoming a wild
76 Post contains links smoot4208 : I wouldn't get your hopes up for any more point-to-point routes to MCO. Especially not from from small airports. SHD didn't pan out, and now this: ht
77 mariner : For the summer, yes. But are OMA and MSN permanently dropped? Winter really crushed them. They did okay in summer. Apart from the newly announced cit
78 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I'm not sure I would call CKV small. The population is north of 133,000 using the 2010 census data. It isn't NYC but it isn't SHD or COU either. CKV
79 Post contains links mariner : The issue which has been much discussed here - COS following a line of other focus cities - has made it to the general media: http://www.usatoday.com/
80 enilria : I guess if you can keep profitability while shrinking 25% per year and continuously laying off employees then that's some kind of accomplishment. Exc
81 mariner : Given where they were - I think so. Indeed, that's quite right. That's why I added the fleet news. The restructure is an ongoing process, it isn't ov
82 n7371f : History is pretty clear on companies that try to shrink to profitability. Heck look at Frontier's predecessor, it tried to shrink & retreat at St
83 mariner : I can only point you to the published numbers. mariner[Edited 2013-02-19 18:56:50]
84 mcg : I see ATL-MSO as simply an extension of the ATL-BZN service DL has operated for a number of years. Presumably the BZN service has been successful, th
85 freakyrat : Frontier needs to spend money on advertising in its new markets. It's like they do not want to give markets time to develop. While I was in my origina
86 rampart : OK, but so did UA and CO retreat at DEN. CO completely pulled their hub. Went through a couple bankrupties, lived on to merge with UA. UA has shrunk
87 IllinoisMan : Maybe TTN will be their saving grace, but with the track record of F9, highly unlikely. I foresee an inevitable merger with B6 or NK given that their
88 PlanesNTrains : History is pretty clear on companies that don't adapt. Do you prefer they go on a diet or go to their Alamo? Years ago Conrail (railroad) was oversiz
89 Post contains links mariner : The published numbers: In Q1 2012, the quarter that Siegel started, Frontier lost $21 million: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...by-frontier-airl
90 antoniemey : They were losing money battling it out for market share... They tried a different tactic, it didn't work, another airline bought them out... then tha
91 Post contains links n7371f : Nice press for Frontier in the hometown paper this morning. http://www.denverpost.com/business/c...tomers-orlando-flight-cancellation
92 Post contains images point2point : How ironic that as F9 started shrinking, and then having all of these route changes left and right...... they start reporting quarterly profits......
93 GentFromAlaska : Yes, and MSO must be working because DL already flies MSP-MSO. And yet we continue to see quarter over quarter and year over year profits at AS. ANC
94 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : F9 Winter weather travel advisory for several airports in the nations heartland http://media.flyfrontier.com/article....cfm?article_id=5436&view_i
95 mariner : Siegel is correcting oen of the biggest mistakes Frontier made - back before Southwest ever came to DEN. When oil first hit $30 a barrel (I kid you n
96 Post contains links and images point2point : DEN-BLI is returning on May 17th, and this season for now will have 4 weekly flights. Maybe at some point, BLI will be more than seasonal, and possibl
97 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : Here is F9 press release http://media.flyfrontier.com/article....cfm?article_id=5437&view_id=1290& Additionally, Frontier will be resuming se
98 F9animal : The latest interesting news just came via a dickie bird. Frontier Customer Service and Ramp are showing interest in organizing a union. This does not
99 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : If I'm reading it correctly it looks like F9 is flying two daily flights on those four days for a total of eight weekly round trips I'm happy to see
100 stlgph : You left out the best part of the press release. "On a separate note, as part of the schedule extension Frontier will increase its fee for a third ch
101 GentFromAlaska : Was the baggage increase in the F9 press release I honestly didn't see it. I was more tuned in on the flying side of things. I'm also disappointed wi
102 Post contains images mariner : As an old union man, I can only applaud the move. But it's a wee bitty late in the day, perhaps. It always intrigues me when people dump on the airli
103 GentFromAlaska : Outside of somebody relocating to a new city or job or a business traveler carrying professional-books-papers-and-equipment; who in their right mind
104 jerseyguy : United charges $100 Delta and USAirways Charges $125 American charges $150 Jetblue charges $75. Southwest (Home of the first 2 bags free) charges $75
105 n7371f : Exactly. Frontier has totally found their niche. Adding and dropping markets left and right, often on a whim.
106 n7371f : Yeah that was me. It's an ex-China Eastern A319 built in June 2002. Leased from CIT. I hope the interior is refreshed well enough to look better than
107 Post contains links mariner : Indeed. MSN 1786. Some of us are having a debate about what will be on the tail. I - of course and as usual - am hoping for Enrique, the frog to come
108 Post contains images point2point : The drop part is what is important...... if there isn't any $$$$ showing up, do what you have to do....... In the meantime, F9 has DEN, the cash cow
109 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : http://bbjtoday.com/blog/frontier-ai...-for-bellingham-denver-route/21505 Flight schedule "Denver-to-Bellingham (beginning May 17), flights depart at
110 Buddys747 : I wonder if DEN-MDT is staying past fall? The F9 press release didn' t mention DEN- MDT in it's summer seasonal routes that was released on the 20th.
111 Post contains links and images point2point : A couple of new items out about F9. The first here is from CAPA, which usually rehashes a lot of the stuff we already know, albeit with somewhat more
112 kcrwflyer : Yeah... they seem to think (or are pretending) the service will return. G4 and NK have been far less sporadic in what they've added and dropped. I do
113 PlanesNTrains : It's a much closer comparison than UA or DL, don't you think? And F9 is in a transition mode vs those two that have been doing what they're doing for
114 smoot4208 : I believe seasonally as of now. SHD is seasonally cut as well. It's anyone's guess if they return. Because they already serve MSN/OMA I could see tho
115 kcrwflyer : Is Disney world not busiest June - September? I guess it makes sense to run MCO when they do if that's the only time they don't have better places to
116 mariner : Well, well, whatever the bins are like on N954FR, summer's coming and I believe there might be a bit of aircraft porn at Frontier. SHD was always out
117 jerseyguy : I've been reading this and other boards for awhile now but I don't believe I've ever seen the term "Aircraft Porn" used. What the F (pardon the pun)
118 mariner : Sexy? A turn-on? For a lot of people in my business, Oscar night is star porn and a film festival is movie porn. I guess it'll leak out soon enough b
119 jerseyguy : Sorry, as a Pharm Tech in a hospital we don't have any "porn". Nothing sexy about new drugs that come to market. The only thing sexy in this industry
120 Post contains images point2point : The Denver area is under siege with another one of its winter snowstorms. Up to a foot of snow is forecast - 5 inches already on the ground - and some
121 mariner : Speaking of DEN - do you know how many of the airlines (at DEN) have introduced baggage self-tagging yet? TIA mariner
122 Post contains images point2point : I don't think that any carrier here is doing this yet. And isn't this something that's just really in its baby steps? I see that NZ has these on flig
123 Post contains links mariner : At AKL, Air NZ is moving to fully automation - I haven't used the counter for two years going to Australia - and I believe Hawaiian is going the same
124 GentFromAlaska : Oh boy more self serve. You almost have to wonder if self tagging is a first attempt by the airlines to reduce or even waive any or all liability for
125 Joeljack : The OMA-MCO flight times was awful this year! My cousin takes his entire family of 5 to Disney every year via F9 and talking with him at Christmas, h
126 smoot4208 : According to Airfleets.net, F9 took delivery of N718AT and N786AT on 2/8/13, and 2/15/13. Both leased from GECAS. I'm not sure when they'll actually s
127 slcdeltarumd11 : Wind is what usually kills Denver.....it's so flat out by the airport it can create blizzard conditions with very little snow. The wind is what you ne
128 slcdeltarumd11 : at least united and southwest can fly you to other cities to connect to Palm Spring lets just say if you are on frontier you are the mercy of when sea
129 n7371f : N786AT is a Boeing 727-214(F) former owned by ASTAR Air Cargo
130 smoot4208 : The two are formerly B-2226 and B-2227 of China Eastern Airlines. It showed them as having temporary registrations of N718/786. I assume F9 will rena
131 slcdeltarumd11 : Cancelled flights for Sunday, Feb. 24, 2013: Flight 071: Cancun (CUN) to Denver (DEN) Flight 100: Denver (DEN) to Minneapolis (MSP) Flight 115: Minnea
132 gustywinds : Can anyone confirm WN or UA's cancellations in DEN yesterday? All things considered, I don't think F9's cancellations were that bad. A friend at WN sa
133 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : Looks like F9 is parting ways with Expedia Travel http://media.flyfrontier.com/article....cfm?article_id=5439&view_id=1290& For several years
134 enilria : That's a big deal. I'll tell you why. In DEN F9 has tended to have good penetration for F9.com, but in spokes it has been very poor and they have com
135 Post contains links mariner : This appears to be an extension of the move that was signalled back in September last year: http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...iers-who-book-else
136 slcdeltarumd11 : Yeah but WN and UA have tons of other hubs to re-route those people thru. Frontier has zero options to re route the passengers thru. Frontier has a d
137 JA : Frontier used supplemental lift from charter carriers to get their network back in order after the major storm last year. I don't think Frontier passe
138 Post contains links mariner : Now that was a storm, and in summer, too. It was the hail that did the damage, as in the second photo here: http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/07/1...s-
139 kingcavalier : Well, yea, that was the point of the post. WN and UA will cancel a DEN flight so it doesn't affect their other hubs. F9 will not do that unless they
140 enilria : In summation of my earlier comments. If it isn't clear enough already, everybody should expect that F9 will pretty soon exclusively be operating in m
141 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : Actually WN uses one OTA which I'm aware of. It is only available to those affiliated with the military and solely for leisure travel meaning active
142 kcrwflyer : Why would they fly HTS-MCO on top of G4 when CRW-MCO has no competition? Although I'm sure you were just making an example.
143 Post contains images mariner : Welcome to the new Frontier. I've been talking about this restructure for months - a year - and it isn't over yet. It's different. It isn't "old" Fro
144 n7371f : Southwest made their fares and schedules available on Galileo few years back.
145 ADent : WN is available for corporate travel for some - we used to use Travelocity and they showed up like the other airlines.
146 smoot4208 : You're nuts if you think they'll stop serving places like MDW, LAX, LAS, SFO, etc,,,,they will be reducing frequency for sure though. EUG and FAT are
147 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : F9 may also want to consider advertising on the http://www.bonnaroo.com/ URL which is the annual four day outdoor venue held in Manchester, TN every J
148 freakyrat : A thing I noticed when I flew from DEN-SBN-DEN on Frontier last month was that on Expedia when you pulled up the seat map for the flights on Expedia t
149 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I've always been weary of those 2 or 3 seats left at this price" you see on some travel URL. Some will argue they are accurate as the data is supplie
150 LAXintl : Kinda funny with F9 ending sales on Expedia. Spirit just did the opposite. At their earnings call they made mention of their new relationship with Exp
151 n7371f : My understanding of the situation, and it could be inaccurate, is Frontier doesn't necessarily want to pull its flights from Expedia - it's the issue
152 mariner : The contract with Expedia was up and Frontier couldn't get a deal that it liked. No doors have been closed, Frontier hasn't ruled out going back to E
153 enilria : Exactly As you said yourself, those are Apple ferry flights effectively. I'm not nuts. I'm surprised they are still in MDW with Apple forcing them in
154 PlanesNTrains : I'm hoping that someone can prove that wrong. Not sure if they will, or who it will be if they do, but I hope someone does. -Dave
155 mariner : Odd then that they are increasing DEN-CVG frequency before it even starts - as you very well know from the OAG thread - from 6 x to 7 x (weekly). All
156 Post contains links mariner : Frontier reports $29.6 million net income for full year 2012: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/republ...s-reports-quarterly-005300006.html "Frontier Segm
157 F9animal : I just heard that F9 filed for bankruptcy. Anyone have any info? This came from a good source, but dont see any news.
158 enilria : I don't know if you read the release, but the numbers don't add up. From the commentary Fixed Fee 2012 Pre-Tax Income $69.5m Frontier 2012 Pre-Tax In
159 slcdeltarumd11 : I agree that really seems like the struggle right now for long term survivial. Especially with only one hub and nowhere to reroute in times of bad we
160 mariner : I'll leave you to argue the toss with the analysts. Let me fall over in surprise. They're calling it profit - but have already said they are still ca
161 F9animal : I have searched everywhere, and cant find anything to confirm the bankruptcy rumor. I also heard F9 is ending interline agreements with UA as well. I
162 slcdeltarumd11 : Maybe just moving towards a more ULCC and less luggage transfers future?
163 LAXintl : Profit is a profit, so good for them, but if they want to be a ULCC they need to work on beating cost down further. Even with higher capacity aircraft
164 F9animal : slcdeltarumd11... I am using a smart phone, and cant use the quote feature for some reason. I think it would be a huge mistake to do away with all int
165 smoot4208 : ORD or MDW...you know what I meant. Simply put, they won't stop flying to Chicago I was referring to NK. (in general, not from a specific city) I was
166 mariner : Indeed, which is why the restructure is ongoing, the job isn't finished. The outstation ground staff outsourcing, as one example, which according to
167 Post contains links airlinewatcher1 : Denver has been and will continue to be crucial for F9's survival. So the hub-and-spoke model will more or less have to stay. Mike Boyd stated: "You c
168 Post contains images point2point : Many thanks for posting this. Finally, both Boyd and Siegel are on the right track with the obvious, and are expressing so many of the very thoughts
169 Post contains links mariner : Everyone says "sale" - I'm not sure why. BB said "separation." I suppose you could argue that Rupert Murdoch "sold" News Corporation - and he did sel
170 enilria : It's clearly going to be the latter. So, we agree. The company is operating profitable, but Net negative. AMR was operating profitable when they file
171 enilria : Bryan Bedford LIVE on the quarterly call: "We are expecting a direction on the sale of Frontier in the next month and a transaction would be closed by
172 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : I believe this is a further breakdown and or detail of the RJET conference call; courtesy CNBC.com http://www.cnbc.com/id/100503721
173 stlgph : Republic's 10 E-190's ... 5 will stay at Frontier, 5 will go to charter work. Frontier decision in the next month, could close by end of 2nd qtr. AMR
174 antoniemey : That one's true, though UA's memo seemed to indicate it was UA's idea, but these things tend to be that way...
175 gustywinds : Just because UA canceled their interline agreement with F9 does not mean F9 will not be in the hub business. F9 will connect to F9. F9's interline ag
176 LAXintl : Yes increasing density might be well worth a look again. With very high LF, going up closer to the FAA limits like Spirit might be good. I realize F9
177 stlgph : funny you should say. Republic looking to add 6 seats to Airbus jets.
178 mariner : Not really. See my several mentions of the Neo order - I'll use that as the example. The progress payments on the Neo might normally be made out of c
179 kingcavalier : I wish F9 had 4-8 Big Front Seats. I've always thought F9 could retain the same total number of seats on board by squeezing the back more. I hear the
180 mariner : It's the word BB used the day he announced the "separation" - two years ago - and so far, this process is playing almost exactly as he said it would.
181 enilria : I don't understand why forcing more miles to expire by reducing the validity timeframe to 18 months decreases F9's revenue (Non-GAAP) by $10 million?
182 stlgph : read every forthcoming press release carefully. even if it's a wrap around of new services, or service additions, there may/most likely be text burie
183 mariner : Nope. As on the cc, 4 x E190's will be scheduled at Frontier through the summer, which is what they said on the last guidance and will stay at least
184 gustywinds : But that might have been a slip. He also used the word 'separation' in the Q & A. He goes into great detail about the separation. He says the ter
185 gustywinds : Someone asked about the E190s on the call and Bedford clearly said the intention is to sell the remaining E190s.
186 mariner : Yes, he did. But he also said there were variables as to how this could be achieved and he suggested the possibility of an expanded Caesar's contract
187 stlgph : 10 remain. 5 will go to charter, 5 will go to Frontier. it's on the Bloomberg.
188 enilria : We used to debate over whether BB is telling the truth. Now we debate over whether he really meant what he said because sale doesn't mean "to sell".
189 stlgph : are you on there? i can screen shot headlines if you ever want them. was a busy screen during the conference call.
190 IllinoisMan : If F9 wants to have people us their site they should improve it so it doesn't work like a bunch of high school kids programmed it. I fly 30 times a y
191 Post contains links and images GentFromAlaska : I believe so. I was under the impression five were staying the RJET to do some ACY contract casino flying amongst other things. It may be other Embra
192 FRNT787 : What does CPA's for E175s and E145 have to do with E190s?
193 mariner : The moment people that others are "not truthful" because it doesn't suit what they want to believe, I lose interest. As I've said, several times and
194 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I didn't listen to the conference call, but on the surface I'd think people bringing forward their use of FF miles to avoid losing them prematurely w
195 Post contains links airlinewatcher1 : Something to watch for: Frontier Airlines' fate may be settled by end of March http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...-airlines-fate-may-be-settled.ht
196 n7371f : Love the back-forth between the two main pundits on here...one see's nothing but roses no matter what F9 does; the other nothing positive. Truth is pr
197 Post contains links rampart : So inflight service, fares, number of flights, cities offered, cute (or annoying) animals on the tails, that doesn't influence you, but the gauntlet
198 IllinoisMan : I just do not like F9's website. In addition to using Kayak, I am also a loyal Expedia customer. That way I can take care of my trip in one fell swoo
199 smoot4208 : Oh please, you've hated F9 ever since they started downsizing MKE (possibly even before?). After that you just kept piling up reasons/excuses as to w
200 rampart : And, in my opinion, I hate using Expedia. I may use it to search flights (but Kayak or ITC is better). I never use it to book travel, I've been burne
201 enilria : Clearly they did not intend to keep the E190s at F9. If that is now the case I doubt it is a result of route planning decisions and more a result of
202 Jerseyguy : Might the e190 be appropriate for Trenton maybe? Would the e190 make it to Denver??
203 GentFromAlaska : With all due respect I think the senior leadership team finally came to their frickin senses. I suspect the balance sheet told them they have too muc
204 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I agree. Well, that would be something changing. It seemed pretty clear that the E190's were leaving and now some appear to be staying, however tempo
205 mariner : It's difficult when people say it's in Bloomberg but don't give a link. I don't know what was said on Bloomberg. On the cc, they are stated as being
206 GentFromAlaska : Those are the five E190's at Republic; not the five at F9 correct? Pardon the pun but I'm trying to put some seperation between the two entitites . T
207 Post contains links mariner : There are 5 x E190's (Republic) doing casino charter work. There are 5 x E190's (Republic) pro-rate flying at Frontier. On the cc, BB said: He does n
208 kingcavalier : The plan had the E190s sticking around until September. 2 are based in DEN and 2 are based in the east to run DCA-MCI, etc. 1 E190 is a spare. If they
209 mariner : The point is that it may change, be delayed by a month or three, and for a desirable reason. The overall fleet plan for the year has changed in the l
210 antoniemey : There's a major difference between 4 (or 11) planes of a type being operated uneconomically with nothing else like it anywhere in the fleet and 10 pl
211 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : My apology for any duplication. I did not see a URL posted to the conference call but may have missed it. If someone wants to listen to the recorded
212 freakyrat : Just a little but of statistical information from the SBN website from December 2012. Frontier deplaned 1729 passengers in SBN from DEN and boarded 20
213 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : Does anybody have any idea how the potential segregation of F9 from RJET might deal with the eighty aircraft NEO order 60 A320 and 20 A319 announced i
214 F9animal : Dickie birds are chirping. Sounds like previous rumours I mentioned are getting stronger. I hope it is wrong, but I have a bad feeling.
215 Post contains links mariner : Not to carve anything in granite, Gent, but the intention is that the Neo's go to Frontier. Airbus doesn't start delivering Neo's until 2015. I don't
216 GentFromAlaska : Correction (New Engine Option) Most of the RJET/F9 conference call I listened too was positive and upbeat. If the rumor is what I think it is; the co
217 mariner : I would be mildly surprised if the suitor were any other airline - although I guess it is possible. I think it is more likely to involve one of the f
218 JA : Prior warning is not always given for these things.
219 GentFromAlaska : The biz media as recently as Friday was reporting Warren Buffet (The Oracle of Omaha) is shopping investments. In the transportation component; Mr. B
220 GentFromAlaska : It appears WN is ka-bashing their non-stop flights between SEA and ATL, BNA, STL effective Sept 29. Because SEA is one of F9 stronger markets I wonder
221 alphascan : "If a capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk back in the early 1900s, he should have shot Orville Wright. He would have saved his progeny money. Bu
222 Post contains links and images mcg : No MSO http://missoulian.com/news/local/fro...8-8534-11e2-b330-001a4bcf887a.html
223 n7371f : Regarding the bankruptcy rumor, I haven't heard it...but doesn't mean it's not a possibility. Look, as Doug Parker at America West and now US Airways
224 dlx737200 : I am curious for more information about this. I don't regularly follow these Frontier threads but a friend from OMA this morning told me that all F9
225 N80NA : Does anyone know if Frontier will still be taking delivery of the 2 ex-China Eastern A319s ? I believe they are currently registered N718CT and N786CT
226 slcdeltarumd11 : Just got an email from Southwest offering me acomped elite status for frontier elite flyers. Absolutley not. Alaska nor Delta nor southwest would let
227 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : On the heels of the parting of ways with Orbitz.com F9 most recent $49 fare sale is getting some play on Travelocity.com http://www.travelocity.com/c/
228 n7371f : And that right there tells me Southwest continues to struggle for the foot-hold it wants versus Frontier in Denver. Southwest wouldn't do something l
229 GentFromAlaska : I'm not sure how AS fits into the equation with one or two flights a day to both from SEA to ATL and STL; nothing to BNA yet. It looks like F9 has pu
230 floridaflyboy : It will be over 700 effected employees and they expect to complete the transition by the end of the year.
231 F9animal : Employees laid off will get a whole 6 months of travel benefits. Kind of a slap in the face if you ask me. Most airlines offer at least a year. Most e
232 Post contains images LAXintl : And have DEN contracted out rather quickly Remember company said it was reviewing what to do with DEN. If employees want to slash their own throats,
233 Post contains images point2point : Hopefully, local politicos will get off their duffs, and pass some sort of legislation that will allow F9 some sort of tax and other breaks if they s
234 slcdeltarumd11 : I think quite the opposite. Carriers are focusing on a few cities and less point to point especially the legacis but even WN. WN has focused on a few
235 kingcavalier : F9animal - DS addressed the high DOT complaints for January in a recent letter to staff - "The Department of Transportation (DOT) recently reported co
236 Post contains images jerseyguy : If they are disapointed with their job conditions then the door is that way. Don't let it hit you on the way out. Also
237 F9animal : Jerseyguy. When the company slashes fellow coworkers throats, and spits on long time workers... The best option is to organize against it. The leaders
238 F9animal : And the employees in DEN should not have to fear the leadership threats of outsourcing DEN. If the workers unionize, F9 will face big obstacles to out
239 LAXintl : Obviously you clearly dislike the actions of what management has done, however seems to an outsider that they have taken a loss making bankrupt enter
240 Post contains images Buddys747 : Right there is what is wrong with america today. I guess rather than fight to keep your job and stand up for yourself after working years over end to
241 GentFromAlaska : In this day and age I would think YouTube and Facebook would have to play a big part in it. In the words of wisdom department; any comments should be
242 Post contains images point2point : Yes, social media is gaining more and more in how things get done this day and age, although personally I'm not one to go in front of any camera here
243 Post contains links freakyrat : Here is a link to an article about F9 from today's South Bend Tribune. http://www.southbendtribune.com/busi...connected-20130317,0,5495948.story
244 GentFromAlaska : F9 needs to dedicate some time and fix the email interface as it relates to accessibility to their web URL. I wanted to check a few fares I saw in the
245 PlanesNTrains : Total sidenote, and not an anti-F9 thing, but would the NEO and CSeries orders/delivery positions that Republic holds be an enticement for someone as
246 floridaflyboy : As of right now, the C-Series order is intended to separate with the Republic side, not Frontier. However, I'm not sure that at the right price, BB w
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Frontier/Republic Thread Part 36 posted Wed Jul 18 2012 01:03:48 by SA7700
New Frontier/Republic Part 28 posted Thu Oct 20 2011 11:54:12 by SA7700
New Frontier/Republic Part 27 posted Sat Sep 24 2011 15:24:41 by LipeGIG
New Frontier #40 posted Tue Jan 1 2013 10:08:13 by iowaman
New Frontier #39 posted Fri Oct 12 2012 10:59:59 by mariner
2 New Frontier Destinations COU & SHD posted Thu Aug 16 2012 10:31:16 by wepaman
New Frontier/Republic #35 posted Thu Apr 19 2012 17:28:52 by FRNT787
New Frontier/Republic #34 posted Mon Mar 12 2012 10:50:11 by point2point
New Frontier/Republic #33 posted Thu Feb 16 2012 11:46:43 by bjorn14
New Frontier/Republic #32 posted Wed Feb 8 2012 05:31:25 by bjorn14