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JFK Terminal 4 Phase II Expansion Approved  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14580 times:

The Port Authority yesterday approved phase II of the Terminal 4 expansion. Phase II will add 11 regional jet gates to the end of concourse B, the concourse DL is currently expanding. There were renderings previously released back when the project was first announced showing the Phase II expansion. It also officially eliminates the walkway from T-4 to T-2, the justification being that with the Regional operation moving to T-4 they would no longer be the need for the walkway. T-3 is going to be torn down, no change, and T-2 will carry on with a new shuttle bus connecting T-2 to T-4 airside.

http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-info...n/pdf/board_minutes_feb_6_2013.pdf


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 14532 times:

Shocked.

Obviously Delta had some obligations to meet that were in limbo when they scrapped the connector...so they just went ahead with phase 2 of 3 of moving all its operations to T4, thus relieving them of the connector obligaton.

Phase 3...the extension of Concourse A to accomodate DLs non RJ domestic operation is still a few years away.

But as we saw in the original drawing, there is a plan...and Delta, JFKIAT, and the PANYNJ seem to be seeing it out.


Same Docket: On another note, several years ago they discussed a ramp from the Palisades to the Lower Level of the George Washington Bridge. Quite a shame they are rebuilding a flawed ramp design.


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 14523 times:



User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14271 times:
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That'll be quite a walk if you're connecting from T2 to a regional flight in T4...

Is the connector between the terminals airside or landside?

TIS



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User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14229 times:

The connector you see in the rendering is the one that was cancelled. Shuttle buses will be used for T4-T2 connections (airside).

[Edited 2013-02-07 06:10:18]

User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4020 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13996 times:

Is there going to be a bus from T4 check-in to the new regional gates? It is a 0.75 mile walk.


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User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13950 times:

Will T2 be used for certain flights, eg, transcon, ATL?

Is the eventual plan for DL to take over all of T4 and move T4 Concourse A airlines into an expanded T1 (ie, eventual demolition of T2 also)?


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13913 times:

To answer both your questions...yes and yes.

I guess from this..T2 will revert to all mainline domestic.

With the RJs moving to T4 DL will actually gain 3 mainline gates at T2.


User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

I see DL moving out of T2 and it being demolished to make room for an expanded T1. Hate to see T3 go, but looking at the pic I see why.

User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6779 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13798 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 6):
Is the eventual plan for DL to take over all of T4 and move T4 Concourse A airlines into an expanded T1 (ie, eventual demolition of T2 also)?

IMO the true ultimate plan is for DL to buy B6 and connect Terminals 4 & 5.


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13786 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 6):
Will T2 be used for certain flights, eg, transcon, ATL?

Probably mainline domestic, but I would guess not transcon, now that they are starting to use international aircraft (767s and 757s with Business Elite) to LAX and SFO. I'd expect those flights to be at T4, but who knows.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13583 times:
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Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 10):
but I would guess not transcon

You are correct, all of DL's JFK - LAX, SFO, SEA transcon flights will be departing from T4.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1757

This is great news, glad to see the port authority and DL moving onto phase II so quickly. Its going to cost DL $175mil for 11 RJ gates and a bus station, not a bad amount of money for preferential use of the gates and the ease of connections to the rest of international operation DL will be running out of T4.

Does anybody know the timeline for the completion of phase II?

[Edited 2013-02-07 08:26:45]

[Edited 2013-02-07 08:28:55]

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4914 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13554 times:
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Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 11):
for 9 RJ gates

Believe it will be 11 gates.


User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13512 times:
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Quoting panamair (Reply 12):

Thank you for the correction, for some reason I had 9 stuck in my head.

Are 11 gates going to be enough for the entire RJ operation? I counted 17 RJ stands at the end of T2 currently available for use.


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13478 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 11):
You are correct, all of DL's JFK - LAX, SFO, SEA transcon flights will be departing from T4.

Thanks for the confirmation--didn't realize that had been announced officially.

Quoting william (Reply 8):
I see DL moving out of T2 and it being demolished to make room for an expanded T1. Hate to see T3 go, but looking at the pic I see why.

I agree, that would make sense in the long term. The expanded T1 could then accommodate some of the international airlines displaced from T4.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13479 times:

Rather than keep T2, why doesn't DL add another "finger" off of T4 concourse B (in the direction of where T2/3 are now)? Seems that having everything in one, state of the art terminal is preferable to two terminals connected by a bus. Would simplify connections and give everyone an equally good experience.

User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13442 times:

Quoting rwsea (Reply 15):
Seems that having everything in one, state of the art terminal is preferable to two terminals connected by a bus. Would simplify connections and give everyone an equally good experience.

Absolutely, and I think DL consolidating in T4 is definitely where things are headed--it just can't happen overnight. Phase II, moving the RJ gates to T4, is another good step in the right direction. Phase III, with the expansion of Concourse A, will allow DL to leave T2.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1082 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13413 times:

How long does this make Concourse B? Will it be as long as Concourse D in Miami?

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4914 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13360 times:
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Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 13):
Thank you for the correction, for some reason I had 9 stuck in my head

You were probably thinking of the 9 gates that have been added to Concourse B as part of the Phase 1 expansion (opening in May)!


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12789 times:

Theoretically could all of SkyTeam fit in a phase 3 Terminal 4 and anyone one left be regulated to
Terminal 1 and 2 ? If so, what are the chances Delta/Sky Team just utilize Term 4?


User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12771 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 13):
Are 11 gates going to be enough for the entire RJ operation? I counted 17 RJ stands at the end of T2 currently available for use.

I was wondering that too. I believe Gate 23/25 at T2 has 17 RJ stands as you say, plus Gate 18 in the T3 saucer is used for RJs.

However, I bet 11 gates at the new T4 extension is sufficient because:

1) RJ operations are down substantially at JFK following the LGA ramp-up. I don't have the exact numbers, but DL pulled down JFK RJ flying as it ramped up the LGA schedule. So they don't need as many JFK RJ gates as they did at their peak. I don't think they're using all the RJ stands now even at peak times.

2) I've always noticed RJs sitting on the T2 stands for a long time, whether as spares or to allow better scheduling to optimize connectivity. Worse case scenario, spares and planes with an extended sit could move off the gate to a nearby hardstand.


User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12698 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 17):
How long does this make Concourse B? Will it be as long as Concourse D in Miami?

Headhouse to the end of the RJ extension will be right around 0.5 mi.

I think Concourse D in MIA is closer to a mile.


User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12703 times:

Looking at all those Sky Team Airlines at T1 such as Korean Air, Aero Mexico, Aeroflot, Alitalia and Air France these should eventually move to T4 and SWISS and Singapore Airlines should move to T1. As on other airports also at JFK the Terminals should start ot be organized on Alliance level.

User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12517 times:

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 22):

AF and KE are part of the T1 group that owns T1, don't expect them to move any time soon (LH and JL are the other two airlines that are part of the group).


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5295 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11269 times:

I'm surprised by this news. I thought that the original estimates didn't have go-ahead on phase II until near the end of this decade.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 5):
Is there going to be a bus from T4 check-in to the new regional gates? It is a 0.75 mile walk.

I don't think that they ever mentioned a bus service to the regional gates, just the bus connecting T2 and T4. I'd wager that unless the elites in New York pitch a fit, they won't and will just make everyone walk/use the moving walkways.

Quoting rwsea (Reply 15):
Rather than keep T2, why doesn't DL add another "finger" off of T4 concourse B (in the direction of where T2/3 are now)? Seems that having everything in one, state of the art terminal is preferable to two terminals connected by a bus. Would simplify connections and give everyone an equally good experience.

I don't know if you remember, but that was the original intent way back when DL first discussed a new JFK terminal pre-9/11. T3 and T2 were going to be torn down to make way for an additional concourse off of T4. I suppose it's always possible for them to revisit that idea, but I doubt that would happen in the near future.



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User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9507 posts, RR: 14
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11135 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 19):

will also depend on how big T4A is and if they could get all the other T4 carriers out.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 17):
Will it be as long as Concourse D in Miami?

I think that is a bit longer. Also pretty sure the Delta terminal at DTW is longer(but does have a tram.)

Thankfully T4 is getting moving walkways which help. (much like CVG)

Quoting OA412 (Reply 24):
I don't know if you remember, but that was the original intent way back when DL first discussed a new JFK terminal pre-9/11. T3 and T2 were going to be torn down to make way for an additional concourse off of T4. I suppose it's always possible for them to revisit that idea, but I doubt that would happen in the near future.

close.
The JFK-2000 plan was for T4B to be expanded and some how 10 gates to be added to T2.....no idea how that was gong to work out.



yep.
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11148 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 24):
I don't know if you remember, but that was the original intent way back when DL first discussed a new JFK terminal pre-9/11. T3 and T2 were going to be torn down to make way for an additional concourse off of T4.

I don't remember this. Do you have a photo or link to the plan? This is the one I have from the Leo Mullin days.



User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 24):
I don't think that they ever mentioned a bus service to the regional gates, just the bus connecting T2 and T4. I'd wager that unless the elites in New York pitch a fit, they won't and will just make everyone walk/use the moving walkways.

I agree. Those regional flights carry more connecting traffic than O&D. Most NY pax (especially elites) going to any of those regional destinations will use LGA. So between that, and the relatively small capacity of the RJs, I would imagine the number of passengers who need to walk all the way from check-in to the end of the concourse is fairly small, and compared to other major hub airports it's really not so far anyway.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineZBA2CGX From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 24):
I don't know if you remember, but that was the original intent way back when DL first discussed a new JFK terminal pre-9/11. T3 and T2 were going to be torn down to make way for an additional concourse off of T4. I suppose it's always possible for them to revisit that idea, but I doubt that would happen in the near future.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 25):
The JFK-2000 plan was for T4B to be expanded and some how 10 gates to be added to T2.....no idea how that was gong to work out.

Does anyone have pictures or layouts of how the extension off of T4 into the former T2 space was suppose to look like?

Quoting questions (Reply 26):
I don't remember this. Do you have a photo or link to the plan? This is the one I have from the Leo Mullin days.

thanks, probably would have had difficulty with pushback for those jets on the end of T4B into the taxi way.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10052 times:

Actually, that one you have there was a better, more expensive job.

Notice the headhouse was actually extended to accomodate thousands of new passengers a day

When they re announced this plan, I immediately noticed, the head house would not be extended at all.

Small expansions of baggage processing areas, etc.

But that is all ground level stuff. The expensive stuff...with glass walls and soaring ceilings will not be touched. Instead, they took away the club area for security and build within existing walls


User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Notice the headhouse was actually extended to accomodate thousands of new passengers a day

When they re announced this plan, I immediately noticed, the head house would not be extended at all.

Small expansions of baggage processing areas, etc.

But that is all ground level stuff. The expensive stuff...with glass walls and soaring ceilings will not be touched. Instead, they took away the club area for security and build within existing walls

I think the headhouse structure itself is plenty big. They did make several critical, expensive improvements:

- Building an expanded, centralized security checkpoint that involved adding a floor over part of the shopping mall. I'm not positive, but to my naked eye it looks like the new checkpoint will be the biggest at JFK, bigger than T8 and T5.

- Building an in-line bag screening system to improve traffic flow, processing time, and finally get rid of the CTX machines piling up in the lobby

- Adding a new domestic baggage claim hall, since T4 will now be getting more domestic traffic than anticipated when first designed

With that, I think the headhouse itself is in good shape for the traffic it will see. The ticketing hall is already enormous, as is the shopping mall.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4281 posts, RR: 6
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

Are the RJ gates going to be capable of segregating passengers so arrival could be routed into the FIS? I ask this because DL is launching YQB in May, and YQB does not have a US preclear facility.

User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9092 times:

What I don't understand from where will the extra space be taken for imigration counters and baggage belts?

User currently offlinephatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8630 times:

Quoting bizjet (Reply 20):
I was wondering that too. I believe Gate 23/25 at T2 has 17 RJ stands as you say, plus Gate 18 in the T3 saucer is used for RJs.

Gate 19 in T2, the main gate to catch the airside buses to T3/T4, also doubles as a bus gate for hardstand RJ flights during the evening rush.


User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8475 times:

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 33):
Gate 19 in T2, the main gate to catch the airside buses to T3/T4, also doubles as a bus gate for hardstand RJ flights during the evening rush.

Where are the RJ hardstands located?


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Will phase one T4 changes open at one time in May or will it open in phases? For example will updates to the lobby, check-in, security be completed prior to the concourse extension and new Sky Club?

User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7781 times:
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Quoting bizjet (Reply 34):

Look at the picture in reply 2, in the upper left corner you can see T1 and T2. At the end of T2 you can see the RJ stands.


User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7757 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 36):
Look at the picture in reply 2, in the upper left corner you can see T1 and T2. At the end of T2 you can see the RJ stands.

Sorry for being unclear. Yes, those are the RJ hardstands accessible by walkways from Gates 23 / 25.

The above poster was talking about using a bus in peak times from gate 19 to a remotely parked RJ. My question is where are the a/c parked that require taking a bus from gate 19.


User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7625 times:
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Quoting bizjet (Reply 37):

I believe he is taking about the RJ hard stands on the corner of T3 and taxiway LL.


User currently onlinekaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 26):

Hey!!!!!

Where did you get that?

I made that plan on photoshop about 3 years ago.

That is my concept. Long before anything by Delta was put out.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7243 times:

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 39):
Hey!!!!!

Where did you get that?

I made that plan on photoshop about 3 years ago.

That is my concept. Long before anything by Delta was put out.

I thought that was the plan from Delta's October 2000 announcement. Apologies to all for the bad info.

Does anyone have the photo that shows the plan for Delta's Leo Mullin-era $1.6B JFK expansion announced in October 2000? Highlights:
- T2 - 10 additional gates
- T3 - demolish
- T4 - 1.5M sq feet of additional space; 26 additional gates; separate arrivals hall; T2-T4 connector with moving sidewalks


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7199 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 40):
Does anyone have the photo that shows the plan for Delta's Leo Mullin-era $1.6B JFK expansion announced in October 2000? Highlights:

I used to have the New York Times Article cut out that had a rendering. If you look it must be online somewhere.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4914 posts, RR: 25
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7187 times:
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Official press release about the new T4 extension Phase II:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...ines-port-authority-160000145.html


User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7143 times:

It mentions the addition of dual taxiways, I thought JFK had dual taxiways already.

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5295 posts, RR: 25
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 26):

I believe that's one that someone on this site designed as a possibility. The Leo Mullin plan had T2 being expanded a bit to a sort of modified L-shaped design, and a brand new concourse extension off of T4, not a lengthening of the existing concourse.

Quoting ZBA2CGX (Reply 28):

Unfortunately I do not. As STT mentioned, the NYT had an article with a picture, but I haven't seen that in years. I'm sure it's floating around somewhere on the internet.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10476 posts, RR: 14
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6926 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 2):

Ok.....from this rendering, which includes the addition of phase II, I assume that the longer concourse on T-4 is Concourse "A"? Except for the flights out of T-2, will DL be operating out of Concourse "B" of T-4, at all? Seems like DL could move their ops in T-2 to this concourse and whoever is displaced could move to T-2, but maybe that's too simplistic.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 45):

Ok.....from this rendering, which includes the addition of phase II, I assume that the longer concourse on T-4 is Concourse "A"? Except for the flights out of T-2, will DL be operating out of Concourse "B" of T-4, at all? Seems like DL could move their ops in T-2 to this concourse and whoever is displaced could move to T-2, but maybe that's too simplistic.

No, the concourses are other way around. The newly expanded one (on the left in the rendering posted by cokepopper in reply #2), which will have the new RJ concourse at the end in Phase II, is Concourse B. Concourse A is the one on the right, and currently only exists up to the "dogleg" in the rendering. Phase III would be the addition of the new sections shown in the rendering.

DL will initially only be operating out of Concourse B, not Concourse A. And three gates in Concourse B will still be shared with other airlines. The problem with your idea, which might work from a capacity perspective, is that almost all of the airlines using T4 are international, but T2 does not have customs/immigration.

However, if/when Concourse A is expanded, then DL should be able to consolidate all of its ops at T4. I suppose another possibility would be if T8 were expanded to its original plan, allowing BA to move in and free up space at T7 for some of the airlines currently using T4.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10476 posts, RR: 14
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6869 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 46):

Ok....thanks for the clarification. I guess I'm used to a more logical designation of the concourses, i.e. first one you come to would be "A", next "B", etc., much as is done at SLC, ORD, MEM, ATL, etc.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17544 posts, RR: 46
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6762 times:

Billions dropped on JFK and a zillion shuttle busses. Ooook. I understand they're making lemonade out of lemons but that was the best solution?


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User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6711 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 47):

Ok....thanks for the clarification. I guess I'm used to a more logical designation of the concourses, i.e. first one you come to would be "A", next "B", etc., much as is done at SLC, ORD, MEM, ATL, etc.

That's pretty much how it is for passengers using T4--after checking in, the A concourse is to your left and the B concourse is to your right. Like reading a book--seems fairly logical to me.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 48):
Billions dropped on JFK and a zillion shuttle busses. Ooook. I understand they're making lemonade out of lemons but that was the best solution?

Not that many people will ever need to take a shuttle bus in this arrangement. Any NY originating pax will go directly to T4 or T2, either depending on their destination or by checking online. It's just for pax transferring between international and domestic flights. In a couple of years when the RJ concourse opens it will be even fewer. Building a very long walkway as a short-term solution would be pretty wasteful--and not necessarily more user-friendly than a shuttle bus that runs back and forth every few minutes.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6587 times:
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For all those complaining that concourse B was narrow, the extension will be 20 feet wider then the original part of the concourse. This I'm sure will help with the larger crowds that concourse B will experience.

User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6486 times:

My questions, unanswered by the press release:

1) When will the new RJ addition of Concourse B open?

2) Will it be ground-level or at the same height as the rest of the concourse? The original rendering suggests ground level, but the press release's mention that the gates will be designed with the flexibility for mainline aircraft makes me think otherwise. Of course, mainline a/c could still board from a ground-level facility.

3) Why build a new bus facility by Gate 20 when one currently exists on the other side, gate 23 I think. I suppose the ride will be a little shorter, but it seems unnecessary.


User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10476 posts, RR: 14
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 49):
That's pretty much how it is for passengers using T4--after checking in, the A concourse is to your left and the B concourse is to your right. Like reading a book--seems fairly logical to me.

Well, sure......for people that are used to using T-4 at JFK or those that originate there.......then there are those of us that aren't familiar with the layout........hence, the query.....  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10476 posts, RR: 14
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6427 times:

Ok......here's the rendering after Phase II without any improvements done to Concourse "A"........So, in what phase is the extension done on A?




http://archpaper.com/uploads/JFK_Terminal4_Tomorrow.jpg







Ok.....now that I look at this, is this phase II?? If so, where are the regional gates?

[Edited 2013-02-11 16:58:59]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1398 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
Ok.....now that I look at this, is this phase II?? If so, where are the regional gates?

That is phase 1 minus the walkway.

[Edited 2013-02-11 17:01:20]


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User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3298 posts, RR: 35
Reply 55, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 48):
Billions dropped on JFK and a zillion shuttle busses. Ooook. I understand they're making lemonade out of lemons but that was the best solution?

The money saved on not building the bridge was used to help pay for Phase 2. Like others have said, there won't be a ton of connecting folks between T2 & T4. But for those who do, they'll get a straight shot across the tarmac and a comfortable and sizable lounge to wait in (if necessary). If you think about it, this isn't like the situation at many foreign hubs where paxs are bussed to the plane. In those cases, there is a lot of waiting for the bus and waiting while on the bus. In this case, these things will be running continuously. Since there won't be any obstructions once T3 is demolished, its probably going to be similar to catching a train between concourses in ATL in terms of convenience.

My understanding is that the bridge was not only very expensive (over $75M) but also logistically very difficult. People were going to be bussed until T3 was demolished and the connector could be built regardless. So it just didn't make much sense. By that time, Phase 3 might already be underway.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 56, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6066 times:

Here it is.



User currently offlinebizjet From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6020 times:

Very interesting! Only took 15 years to get it done...

(Also interesting that the T5 and T8 projects have come and gone since then.)


User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10476 posts, RR: 14
Reply 58, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5912 times:

Quoting bizjet (Reply 57):
(Also interesting that the T5 and T8 projects have come and gone since then.)

As has Leo and his gang.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4914 posts, RR: 25
Reply 59, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5827 times:
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Quoting bizjet (Reply 51):
1) When will the new RJ addition of Concourse B open?

Scheduled for Summer 2015.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 60, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Going back in time there's also another rendering I had cut out of the New York Times that was of the original T-5 plan, it's the same one that was built but it had a second concourse for UA and TWA. This was before TWA was acquired by AA and before B6 got huge at JFK.


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User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 61, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 60):
Going back in time there's also another rendering I had cut out of the New York Times that was of the original T-5 plan, it's the same one that was built but it had a second concourse for UA and TWA. This was before TWA was acquired by AA and before B6 got huge at JFK.

I would love to see that if you have it.

That second concourse will finally be built out with B6s T5i.

Amazing how far the facility will go into the T6 site


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 62, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 52):
Well, sure......for people that are used to using T-4 at JFK or those that originate there.......then there are those of us that aren't familiar with the layout........hence, the query.....

It's a fair question--didn't mean to sound snarky!

Quoting mayor (Reply 53):
Ok......here's the rendering after Phase II without any improvements done to Concourse "A"........So, in what phase is the extension done on A?

That rendering is only Phase I. Except for the long, narrow walkway to T2, which as noted above will no longer be built at all, this is what T4 will look like in just a couple of months--it's almost done.

Phase II is the RJ extension to Concourse B, which you can see on the left hand side of cokepopper's rendering in reply #2. This has now been approved and is apparently scheduled to open in summer 2015.

Phase III is the 10-gate extension to Concourse A, which you can see at the lower right hand side of cokepopper's rendering. This has not been approved yet.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4914 posts, RR: 25
Reply 63, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5396 times:
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Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 46):
And three gates in Concourse B will still be shared with other airlines.

Do you know which three will not be Delta-exclusive gates? Also, do you know the carriers that will be using these three? Today's Concourse B non-Skyteam airlines include Swiss (probably the largest user left), Aer Lingus (will move to T5 soon), Transaero, Etihad, El Al, and Pakistan....I assume most of these (including LX) will stay...


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 64, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 63):
Do you know which three will not be Delta-exclusive gates?

Sorry, I don't, but I would assume some or all of the ones currently there, as you mentioned. KL also uses the B gates for their 2 daily flights, but that actually works well for Skyteam connections. There may be some space on Concourse A now that LA has moved to T8, and maybe one or two of the others can move elsewhere--for example, it might make sense for EY to move into T8 as well.

Incidentally, tthe only place I've heard of the three shared gates was on this FlyerTalk thread the other day--which would normally not be the most reliable source but in this case came from the Delta rep on the board: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...miles/1437405-jfk-t4-phase-ii.html (see reply #5).



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5105 times:

Just to help everyone visualize what Phase II will really look like (as currently envisioned, without the connector to T2), Delta has posted a new rendering: http://delta.thedigitalcenter.com/as.../29317-jfk-with-phase-ii-expansion


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5700 posts, RR: 24
Reply 66, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5106 times:

God damn...this is good news, one step closer to destroying the god-awful WorldPort eyesore brick by pigeon poop soaked brick...I cant wait till I actually enjoy connecting through JFK again.


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User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 66):
brick by pigeon poop soaked brick

LOL. I've always thought there's something poetic about an airport terminal infested by birds. Unhygienic perhaps, but still poetic.  



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4953 times:
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Quoting panamair (Reply 59):

I wonder why its going to take them two years to build 75,000 square feet when it took them about the same amount of time to build 500,000 square feet for phase I? Is there going to be a stop in conduction while they tear down T3?


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3508 posts, RR: 5
Reply 69, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Money. They're phasing it out slowly.

They can build as fast or slow as they want


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