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AS Announces Proposed Schedule PAE-Paine Field  
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska...nes-takes-next-step-190000599.html


AS filed required paperwork with the FAA should they start service from PAE....Paine Field...better known as the airport about 30 miles north of SEA where the B747, 777, 767 and 787 are built. It's a suprisingly aggresive schedule....probably a little over the top so some other airline (G4?) doesn't get any big ideas.

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2986 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

In the linked article:

"That said, if one or more other airlines begin operations at Paine Field, we would commence service alongside these carriers. Submitting a schedule with the FAA along with a request for authorization to serve Paine is a necessary step in the process.:

To me this seems like a preemptive strike, but with no intention of really wanting to start that service. The other carrier is obviously G4.

I would like to see AS start at least some QX flights from PAE to PDX and maybe SJC or GEG. I think there's some market from the north end of the Puget Sound, but south of the main BLI cachement area.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5572 times:

Interesting move. I continue to believe that Spirit is looking at PAE, along of course with BLI, as their possible entry point into the Puget Sound region. And It certainly is no surprise to see AAG ready and willing to jump on this... as needed.

This will be fastinating to watch unfold over the next year or 2.

bb


User currently offlineRaddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5553 times:
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WN might be looking at PAE as well. The costs in SEA are very expensive to operate, so if WN can lower costs and have a few flights a day to let's say LAS, DEN, PHX, and maybe a MDW flight.

I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs! They would love a non-stop flight to each factory. But I know it won't happen. I can only keep dreaming! haha


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2986 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs!

I always think this is kind of a fallacy (no offense). Just because a given company has facilities in given cities, doesn't mean there's a market for a daily non-stop flight. Other posters have said this before. Company XYZ has a factory in Istanbul and headquarters in Houston so therefore UA should start a IAH-IST flight, for example.

How many Boeing daily fly between Everett and Charleston? Enough to fill a 738 everyday? Probably not.


User currently onlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 672 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
I always think this is kind of a fallacy (no offense). Just because a given company has facilities in given cities, doesn't mean there's a market for a daily non-stop flight. Other posters have said this before. Company XYZ has a factory in Istanbul and headquarters in Houston so therefore UA should start a IAH-IST flight, for example.

Back when Boeing was bigger in ICT, an airline - maybe AS or perhaps Vanguard, flew SEA-ICT.

It didn't do very well at all.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1023 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
Back when Boeing was bigger in ICT, an airline - maybe AS or perhaps Vanguard, flew SEA-ICT.

It didn't do very well at all.

I think it was TW.


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5300 times:
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That is correct. It was TWA that flew a trip 5x/week between SEA-ICT.
I think it shows how much AAG wants to serve PAE lol. Only if anyone else starts PAE flights do they feel the need to also join in.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2986 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5285 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 6):
Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
Back when Boeing was bigger in ICT, an airline - maybe AS or perhaps Vanguard, flew SEA-ICT.

It didn't do very well at all.

I think it was TW.

TW with an MD-80. AS and I think WN do SEA-STL and AS/OO does SEA-LGB which connect Boeing facilities, but I'm sure Boeing business travel is only a small daily percentage.

Like I said, I do think there's some limited market for PAE-PDX and maybe a few places like SFO/SJC and GEG. Some of us would much prefer to fly out of the nearest local airport like PAE, SNA, SJC, etc than spend awhile driving and sitting in traffic to get to a farther away major airport.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2986 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5244 times:

Here's the AS new release:

http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20130207_104647.asp

Interestingly, the initial schedule is almost identical to though out of BLI (except QX to PDX instead of SEA, obviously, and splitting HNL and OGG with one airplane - 3x and 4x a week). Then it would add 1 daily LAX and a split frequency to SAN and PHX (4x and 3x).


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs!

How many Boeing execs fly commercial do you think? Maybe some lesser folks with the company would be able to make use of a commercial flight -- and there would never be a nonstop from PAE to CHS anyway -- but I doubt it would be any execs.

And I'm sure a nonstop from PAE to Chicago would also not be used by execs at Boeing either...

bb


User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
WN might be looking at PAE as well. The costs in SEA are very expensive to operate, so if WN can lower costs and have a few flights a day to let's say LAS, DEN, PHX, and maybe a MDW flight.

I would love to see a non-stop from PAE to CHS for all the Boeing execs!

Boeing execs on WN that is funny and it will never happen. I'm sure they will keep flying on the corporate jet the service has to be better.  


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9497 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

The proposed routes show that they are going after Allegiant. If AS really wanted to develop PAE, they'd fly to destinations in top demand like LAX, SFO and ANC. However they are more interested in fighting off Allegiant to LAS, OGG and HNL. LAX, SAN and PHX are also proposed, which just happen to be the same routes that Allegiant serves from BLI.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinepanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
This will be fastinating to watch unfold over the next year or 2.

   I'm most surprised to not see some Bay Area flights in the proposed mix, be they SFO, SJC or even OAK.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
Paine Field...better known as the airport about 30 miles north of SEA

I think PAE makes sense it roughly splits the difference between SEA and the Seattle city center. which would take some stress of I-5 and highway 99 around the airport. Seattle held the 7th out of 10 spot in traffic sprawl in 2012 http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/22/...e-10-worst-u-s-cities-for-traffic/

Quoting Raddek (Reply 3):
WN might be looking at PAE as well.

You can't help but think this because WN tried very hard to begin flights at BFI several years ago. I also think F9 is a potential tenant at PAE l. F9 does extremely well in SEA. Because Costco and Microsoft headquarters are north and west of the Seattle city center I suspect these companies would welcome PAE service when traffic enters the equation.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport. And for those of you that know Seattle traffic, driving through the bottleneck of central Seattle is a major pain at all hours of the day. I loved the logic of the previous poster...this could potentially reduce traffic through the city should PAE grow into a decent-sized operation. Heck, in ten years it could very well be a smaller version of SNA or MDW. Of course the NIMBYS will hate that....except when they don't have to drive to SeaTac for their flight to OGG.  

User currently offlineprost From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 910 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 14):
Because Costco and Microsoft headquarters are north and west of the Seattle city center I suspect these companies would welcome PAE service when traffic enters the equation.

They are due east of Seattle city center. And taking I-405 to Everett is no great shakes, either.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24858 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4706 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 15):
I think flights out of PAE would do very well....you have probably 1 million people living within 20-30 minutes of the airport. And for those of you that know Seattle traffic, driving through the bottleneck of central Seattle is a major pain at all hours of the day.

Much like Vancouver where Abbotsford airport (YXX), about 40 miles east of YVR, serves a similar role. WestJet has several daily flights YXX-YYC and YXX-YEG, and a couple of small local carriers operate to Victoria and Nanaimo. There must be several hundred thousand people who live closer to YXX than YVR, and traffic between the eastern suburbs and YVR airport can be slow.


User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4555 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
How many Boeing execs fly commercial do you think? Maybe some lesser folks with the company would be able to make use of a commercial flight -- and there would never be a nonstop from PAE to CHS anyway -- but I doubt it would be any execs.

There are only a handful of Boeing executives that don't fly commercial. In the Seattle area, the head of BCA is probably the only executive that has access to the corporate fleet - other executives will fly commercially (in first class, of course).


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4548 times:

A change back from's September statement that they were no longer interested.
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201...terested-in-Paine-Field-flights%0A

This announcement is also a change from the previous talk of having QX running up to 140 weekly flights to PDX and GEG. Now, more routes, larger equipment, fewer weekly flights.

My guess is someone like Allegiant is seriously showing interested in starting service, maybe discussions about planning for a terminal building have sparked this announcement.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineRaddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4419 times:
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Well CHS also has an up and coming cruise ship port there now a days. Cruises would attract people from the greater Seattle area and maybe even from up north in Canada. I am not saying that the Boeing would fill it with their business travels but Snohomish county has 400.000 + population. So I really can it supporting some WN flights. But like I said, the CHS would just be a dream. I did however make a few valid points on why something would work if they ever did go for a shot in the dark.  

User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1168 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Quoting Raddek (Reply 20):
Well CHS also has an up and coming cruise ship port there now a days. Cruises would attract people from the greater Seattle area and maybe even from up north in Canada. I am not saying that the Boeing would fill it with their business travels but Snohomish county has 400.000 + population. So I really can it supporting some WN flights. But like I said, the CHS would just be a dream. I did however make a few valid points on why something would work if they ever did go for a shot in the dark.

A daily (or even just several days a week) SEA-CHS flight couldn't probably fill up a CRJ. The CHS cruise port only hosts one regular cruise ship, with a couple others calling on an occasional and seasonal basis. Boeing may send some folks back and forth but I highly doubt the numbers are anywhere near what are suggested by some here. There is pretty limited traffic between the two cities.


User currently offlinersmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4047 times:

This is never going to happen. It is a tool to make ensure that the Port of Seattle doesn't raise their gate fees at SEA. This is economic driven politics.

That also was what WN did as well when they said they were going to BFI.

Bookmark this post and in five years you will see my words are true.

Reality is Snohomish County is not going to fund a capital bond project to build a suitable terminal, I don't see it, they are struggling financially.

[Edited 2013-02-07 22:49:18]


Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
That is correct. It was TWA that flew a trip 5x/week between SEA-ICT.
I think it shows how much AAG wants to serve PAE lol. Only if anyone else starts PAE flights do they feel the need to also join in.

I believe it all comes down to SEA being the center of their universe, and any diversity into BFI, PAE, etc would not only dilute their passenger base raising costs at SEA directly, but it would also allow other carriers avoid SEA entirely and start service that otherwise would have either gone to SEA or been by default on other carriers at SEA.

It's all about SEA imho.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

The Port of Seattle, operator of SeaTac Airport, has no say as to what happens in Snohomish County where PAE is located. This all very preliminary but they actually might want to provide facilities...or will lease land for airlines to build their own. AS has built and owns its own terminals throughout the state of Alaska so they're no stranger to building their own facilities if needed.

25 rsmith6621a : And where do they get the $$ to build there own terminals? With the five year outlook it would have to be modular offices, there will not be enough r
26 Post contains links FATFlyer : Modular is exactly what PAE has planned. The environmental analysis docs described a roughly 30,000 sq ft addition to the existing building off 100th
27 GentFromAlaska : Yes they are. Kirkland is slightly more east and north as I recall. An Aussie moment I suppose.
28 Roseflyer : SEA/PAE-CHS is never going to happen. Look how many years it took for AS to fly SEA-STL after AA dropped the route? But Boeing does have quite a bit
29 canoecarrier : I agree. Possibly even a Spokane flight. But, as you say I'd be amazed if it wasn't heavily west coast route based. I'm not sure I agree that it will
30 Post contains images point2point : Having been into the Seattle area several times, all I can remember of it is that its a city with about 4M people and one freeway. This city to me see
31 Post contains images Raddek : Then it needs to be a Boeing WN Cattle Car. PAE-LGB-ICT-STL-CHS. Stop off at all the points and pick up the folks! hahaha
32 BoeingGuy : Kirkland is west and north of the Microsoft campus, which is on the southwest side of Redmond. Kirkland is pretty much directly west of all of Redmon
33 Roseflyer : Parts of SEA are busier at 11pm than 4pm. SEA has the typical west coast traffic pattern. Departures are busy from 6am until 2pm. Then it is dead qui
34 bobloblaw : They are offering the best destinations to start. Hawaii and LAS. PDX for connections.
35 canoecarrier : To be fair, there really are 2 freeways. I typically take Hwy 99 to SEA other than I-5. But, both can get very congested during the rush hour. Going
36 Post contains images point2point : Okay, t/y for this, as I guess my observation is basically correct here. And maybe I'm thinking of 4 pm at a lot of other airports, but as you state,
37 prost : Hey Canoecarrier. Your supervisor at NW must have been angry with you if you were working NW flights at the N satellite. NW was a S satellite carrier.
38 HiFlyerAS : AS has the money to build a golden palace if they wanted...building a small terminal at PAE would not be a problem. Will never happen....although the
39 rsmith6621a : TOLL IT that will pay for it ..... need to get there fast you will pay for it like they do in and around Orlando.. Maybe people in Seattle need to ex
40 canoecarrier : I stand corrected. I've worked N and S satellite and the B gates. It's been a while.
41 bobloblaw : Actually Eastern ran a flight like that during the Apollo Program. MLB-MCO-HSV-STL-SEA on a 727-100. MLB was dropped and the origin became MCO
42 Roseflyer : If you are from around Seattle, you know the challenges of geography. Where are you going to build another freeway? There are two freeways, and they
43 Post contains links BE77 : Anything north of Seattle by default becomes another option for YVR, especially for OGG, HNL, LAS, LAX destinations or connections, due to the typical
44 Gunsontheroof : More than likely. That being said, commercial service at PAE is going to happen someday one way or another and you can bet AS will be there counterin
45 hatbutton : It's a poker game, but not with POS. It's with Allegiant. AS does not want to go to PAE. The only reason anyone is talking about service there is bec
46 rsmith6621a : ANYHOW.... If PAE wants to be a intermediate airport to SEA then they need top make the investment into a formal terminal facility.A Modular will not
47 Roseflyer : Well I think Allegiant would be willing to start service out of a shack. Some of the airports they serve are nothing more than a temporary shack.
48 Post contains images point2point : I stated that the Seattle area needs another freeway. I didn't state that it was getting one. I think that we can all agree that just because there i
49 PlanesNTrains : Exactly. It's the same as BLI. Alaska would likely not be doing BLI-Hawaii were it not for Allegiant, let alone BLI-LAS. Or the whole BFI saga brough
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