katanapilot From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 163 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4206 times:
I was randomly scanning FlightRadar24 and noticed that C-FIUJ is about land in Ottawa from Toronto...a 777-200LR. Is this true? I've never seen a 777 in Ottawa, what could be the occasion? Not exactly exploiting the range of the aircraft :p
Wingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4126 times:
Interesting. FlightAware shows it and the returning flight (ACA469) as the normal A319, but Air Canada (.com) shows both segments with the 77L. Either somebody keyed it in wrong, or perhaps they are indeed subbing the flight with the 777, as there have been a lot of cancellations today YYZ-YOW-YYZ.
Any spotters should take a look and see what is on Gate 15 for AC469, ETD 21:15.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 3, posted (3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3519 times:
YYZ is a mess today, and there are a lot of cancellations.
I am not surprised to see high capacity wide-bodies on short routes to carry stranded passengers with cancellations ... when reduced slots are available.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
KFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1208 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3481 times:
Usually FR24 rarely gets the info wrong, as it only picks up ADS-B or FAA data - whereas FlightAware also takes info from schedules. Hence, I presume that this has to be correct.
The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 7, posted (3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2463 times:
Quoting rampbro (Reply 6):
That's the way to do it! My friends always ask what I'm doing with it open but cool things like this are the reason why!
I do the something similar sometimes. I open up a 7 page scan of the position of every AC aircraft. When I click on the symbol, I can see passenger loads, how many have checked in, delays, look at the flight plan, etc etc etc. Coffee in hand it is like looking at a huge working model.
Absolutely none of my friends understand this, yet I bet everyone on this site would!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
Boeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1769 posts, RR: 25 Reply 8, posted (3 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2280 times:
Well, AC uses the 763 on the route quite frequently, so a 77L isn't completely insane. I agree with the others - it's probably a substitution due to the weather.
They've definitely come to Ottawa before due to diversions.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1967 times:
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 8): Well, AC uses the 763 on the route quite frequently,
very common, especially on weekends. I've seen the 77L subbed on YYZ-YOW a few times in the last year or two as well.
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 8): They've definitely come to Ottawa before due to diversions.
YOW is the official alternate airport for YYZ bound flights (even the EK's A380). YHM is simply too close to YYZ and is often affected by the same weather system as YYZ, making it a marginal alternate at best.
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
zbbylw From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1922 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1727 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9): YOW is the official alternate airport for YYZ bound flights (even the EK's A380). YHM is simply too close to YYZ and is often affected by the same weather system as YYZ, making it a marginal alternate at best.
Sure about that? YHM seems to be the alternate of choice if the weather is good enough in YHM but not good enough to go contact (no alternate IFR).
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 11, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1686 times:
Quoting zbbylw (Reply 10): Sure about that? YHM seems to be the alternate of choice if the weather is good enough in YHM but not good enough to go contact (no alternate IFR).
YHM, (and IAG and BUF) are common alternates for YYZ, as you state. YOW (or YUL) are only used if there is a high likelihood of diverting.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
A346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1198 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1686 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9): YOW is the official alternate airport for YYZ bound flights (even the EK's A380). YHM is simply too close to YYZ and is often affected by the same weather system as YYZ, making it a marginal alternate at best.
"Official" alternate? It may be the standard alternate for a lot of airlines but it will vary by day and by airline.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 13, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1618 times:
Quote: Sure about that? YHM seems to be the alternate of choice if the weather is good enough in YHM but not good enough to go contact (no alternate IFR).
AC will use YOW as the alternate the majority of the time, as they already have the staff in place to assist passengers in the likelihood that they have to disembark, and also relief crews in case pilots or f/a's max out.
YHM does not have AC service. So it's just common sense that AC will choose YOW over YHM most of the time, fuel and weather permitting, of course.
That's a good chunk of YYZ traffic right there choosing YOW.
Most international carriers (non U.S) will also choose YOW. pure geography. When the weather is coming in (usually from the west and is over YYZ, and probably over YHM as well) they have nowhere else to go but YOW or YUL which are still in the clear.
yes, Transborder airlines will go back to the states, namely BUF. Its cheaper than YOW and they also have staff there to assist passengers in the event they have to disembark, because most feeders already serve BUF.
Just like those headed to YUL or YQB will often choose BTV as the alternate. They can very easily land at, say.... PBG, it's probably cheaper. But they dont because most of them already serve BTV and its less complicated (fuel contracts, staff, avlb of pilots...etc)
Canadian operators or intl carriers from Europe or Asia often choose YOW, pure and simple. (always weather and fuel permitting, of course)
When YUL is weathered out, and YMX is still avlb, AC and Jazz can very easily land there, refuel, and do the short hop to YUL when it opens up, yet i've never seen them there. They always come to YOW or go to YYZ, for the very same reasons mentioned above.
Thenoflyzone
[Edited 2013-02-10 14:04:17]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 14, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1450 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13): AC will use YOW as the alternate the majority of the time
I would say less than 5% of the time, and only if there is a possibility it will be needed.
YHM and BUF are the most common, and they are referred to as a "technical alternate". Namely, YYZ weather is not good enough for No Alternate IFR, so an alternate must be carried, but likely not needed. No sense carrying fuel for YOW when it wont be used.
And yes, every now and then one of our ships end up in YHM and BUF. There are already contracts in place so it really is nothing more than just getting refueled, filing a new flight plan ...and off you go!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1322 times:
Quoting longhauler (Reply 14): YYZ weather is not good enough for No Alternate IFR, so an alternate must be carried, but likely not needed. No sense carrying fuel for YOW when it wont be used.
if the weather at YYZ demands an alternate, isn't YHM often affected by the same weather system, deeming it useless?
I understand using YHM and BUF as paper alternates...but as you said, that's just what they are and you seldom need to use them.
thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
longhauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 16, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1263 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15): if the weather at YYZ demands an alternate, isn't YHM often affected by the same weather system, deeming it useless?
Not necessarily.
The requirements for No Alternate IFR are pretty restrictive. Without going into too much detail, it has to be better than VFR (by a wide margin), with a lot of other restrictions. So the weather can be fine, but still No Alternate IFR is not authorized. In a case like that, YHM, or BUF would be fine as a technical alternate.
If the weather was such that there was some doubt about making it into YYZ, then YOW, (or YUL if YOW was not legal) are usually used, for the reasons you state.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21465 posts, RR: 24 Reply 17, posted (3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 950 times:
YOW had another slightly more exotic 777 last Friday when a PIA 777-200LR en route from Islamabad (ISB) to YYZ diverted to YOW due to the YYZ weather/snow chaos on Friday. Following from Transport Canada occurrence reports.
The Pakistan International Airlines Boeing 777-200LR (operating as flight PIA781) was on a scheduled IFR flight from Islamabad, Pakistan (OPRN) to Toronto (CYYZ). PIA781 elected to divert to their alternate airport Ottawa (CYOW) due to weather and anticipated delays at their original destination CYYZ.
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