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AA/US Merger Impact: Livery  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 30800 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Dear All,

in order to consolidate the AA/US merger threads (and after input from users, which we highly appreciate) the moderators decided to start separate threads each discussing one aspect of the AA/US merger and its impact to both the industry and the two airlines involved.

Please continue discussing this hot news in their individual official threads:

AA/US Merger Impact: Fleet
AA/US Merger Impact: Hubs
AA/US Merger Impact: Employees
AA/US Merger Impact: HQ
AA/US Merger Impact: Livery (THIS THREAD ONLY)
AA/US Merger Impact: Unions
AA/US Merger Impact: Routes
AA/US Merger Impact: Inflight Service

Enjoy & have a nice weekend!

The Airliners.net Moderator crew


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
203 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6431 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 30644 times:

Well AA wouldn't spend millions on creating a new livery, just to announce a week or so later that this US deal was going to affect the livery.. In some ways, I don't even know why it should be something to discuss. I would expect US to have no say in the livery of the merged airline and all their planes painted with the "Cubana"-esque tail.


It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinethorntot From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 30435 times:

I would suspect a new brand identity will be developed to reflect the combined carrier. This team would most likely be a combination of sub-AA and sub-US marketing managers. It will also give sub-AA the opportunity to "save-face" in burying the mis-guided recent livery change. "American Airways" will retain important aspects of both carriers' brand while presenting a new image to the public.


Work Hard. Fly Right. Fly United.
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 30250 times:

This is just my opinion of course, I have no direct knowledge, but wouldn't one tend to think that US Airways has already had some input on the livery and branding of American Airlines if the merger is indeed as close as it is suspected to be?

It makes absolutely no since to spend millions on rebranding and then do it all over again less than a month after the rebranding had begun.



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6220 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 30113 times:

Not to mention it would be a branding/marketing nightmare, the cubana/greyhound inspired livery is here to stay (at least for a couple of years). Maybe it will be as short lived as the Deltaflot colors.


Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3254 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 30130 times:

It would be astonishing if the new American branding was not designed for the new merged carrier. There's a lot goes on behind the scenes, a merger is a component part of the new American, it would be naive to believe that much of what American has been planning for the relaunch has been done in utter isolation from a future with US.

Changing the name to"American Airways" would have no effect on the new branding really.
"We'll take half of our name, half of your name." = American + Airways  


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 30061 times:

I prefer US Airways title font, hope they can adopt that, helvetica does not suit this new livery and American Airways sounds nice too.

[Edited 2013-02-08 05:01:15]

User currently offlinethorntot From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 30053 times:

One livery activity I'd like to see carried over to the combined carrier....retro jets!

Can't wait to see a A319 painted in retro AirCal, Reno, and TWA liveries just like the Allegheny, Piedmont, America West, and PSA jets at sub-US.

Wonder if they will use the double-globe, red-block, or final livery for the TWA retro-jet.

Wow, we're getting ahead of ourselves.  



Work Hard. Fly Right. Fly United.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 29944 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 5):
it would be naive to believe that much of what American has been planning for the relaunch has been done in utter isolation from a future with US.

Which could account for the vague timeline for updating non-hub airports with the new branding. The initial press releases talked about years to completely rebrand outstations, which some could take to mean that the door is open to change the branding yet again.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 29825 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
which some could take to mean that the door is open to change the branding yet again.

..."Introducing the new new American"...      



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 29666 times:

Quoting thorntot (Reply 2):
I would suspect a new brand identity will be developed to reflect the combined carrier.

The new AA tail logo in fact does have something of US Airways in it so the new livery definately is designed with the merger in mind.

A388


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 29647 times:

Quoting thorntot (Reply 7):
Wonder if they will use the double-globe, red-block, or final livery for the TWA retro-jet.

Maybe they would do both - they did the 2 different America West colors on the A319


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 29643 times:

Quoting thorntot (Reply 7):
One livery activity I'd like to see carried over to the combined carrier....retro jets!

I would love to see those stick around as well, I wanna see like a TWA one and a Trans Carribean and AirCal and Reno Air. That'd be awesome.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 29528 times:

With all the conflict with TWA employees AA has had in its past I would not expect to see a TWA retrojet anytime soon.

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 29253 times:

I am a firm believer that the AA livery was created with input from US. The introduction of the new livery this close to the expected announcement of the merger can't just be a coincidence.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 29200 times:

I hope that the name American together with the nice livery of US are kept - the Cubana/Austrian tail is a commercial suicide.

User currently offlinepiedmont727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 29033 times:

i think that the new livery was a well planned design by both US and manley american in secret preperaition for a merger and to all hating on the anerican livery i saw it in person and it surprisingly to me looks great (i didnt like it tell i saw it in person)

User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 28995 times:

Hopefully this is a graceful way for AA to develop a livery that isn't so dreadful.

It's a great way for them to tacitly acknowledge they screwed up and redo what they just unveiled.



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5237 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28929 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 4):
Maybe it will be as short lived as the Deltaflot colors.

The correct term is wavy gravy.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 5):
It would be astonishing if the new American branding was not designed for the new merged carrier. There's a lot goes on behind the scenes, a merger is a component part of the new American, it would be naive to believe that much of what American has been planning for the relaunch has been done in utter isolation from a future with US.

Changing the name to"American Airways" would have no effect on the new branding really.
"We'll take half of our name, half of your name." = American + Airways

First, AA started working on rebranding before the Chapter 11 filing. Media accounts say the rebranding discussions started, when AA put in the combined Airbus/Boeing narrowbody order. I wouldn't be surprised, if some memos about the possiblilty of a rebranding started to circulate, when AA finalized the first order for 773s in early 2011.

Second, I don't see American Airlines becoming American Airways. Remember that a lot of people, including myself, say US Air. My father-in-law calls it Useless Air. The name change to US Airways was something that Steve Wolf pushed, when the dark blue livery was introduced. He thought Air was a name for smaller, regional carriers, like Air Cal and Hughes Air West.

If you think about mergers of the past, one name disappears, including Pan Am/National, TWA/Republic, Delta/Western, Delta/Northwest, and American/TWA. Nothing survived from the acquired carrier, when US Air bought Piedmont and PSA. About the only instance of keeping something around from both carriers is the CO/UA merger, with the United name on the Continental livery.


User currently offlineRyefly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28832 times:

I think it would be nice if the US fleet was updated with the American titles for the time being, as seen in the middle, and the American fleet painted as seen as the plane in the foreground.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00015619

Once as US plane is due to be painted it would be updated to the silver scheme.

I would thonk this route would be a lot cheeper then to repaint both entire fleets including express, eagle, airport signage and everything else with the AA or US flag.


User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28757 times:

Dear God I hope they come up with a new combined livery. AA's new livery is by far the worst I have ever seen.

User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1577 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28755 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 5):
It would be astonishing if the new American branding was not designed for the new merged carrier. There's a lot goes on behind the scenes, a merger is a component part of the new American, it would be naive to believe that much of what American has been planning for the relaunch has been done in utter isolation from a future with US.

I agree that this is highly plausible, but I would just add that we shouldn't read too much into that. There is probably more general talk and sharing than there is specifics of every little detail. Now that said, if my reading of the tea leaves is correct, the AA branding is sure to stay and DP can't do anything about that. So, I'd bet the shared carrier livery will indeed be highly similar to the freshly revealed AA brand. I'd bet the biggest modification you might see if something like "Airways" in stead of "Airlines" if they go that as a minor bone to US, but that obviously won't be too big a re-branding problem in the scheme of the liveries and etc.


User currently offlinedtw757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28588 times:

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 21):
Dear God I hope they come up with a new combined livery. AA's new livery is by far the worst I have ever seen.

That's not going to happen. Millions have been spent coming up with the new American branding and millions more needs to be spent rebranding all of the cities. They aren't going to start from scratch now. Like it or not, the new American is here. If there is a merger, it will be American Airlines with the new branding.



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28404 times:
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Like I said in the other thread, I hope the livery is tweaked a little bit, only because AA degraded the American flag by taking the stars off of it. I honestly feel that it isn't right of them to do that escpecially when they are AMERICAN Airlines.


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2352 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28839 times:

What will the fate be of the US Airways retrojets, sport themed planes, and of course AA's retrojet? I would imagine the cancer awareness plane(s) would stick around for a bit..


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineaajfksjubklyn From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29405 times:

I did read that Horton called Parker the night before the logo was reavealed. Parker stated he was happy.
I dont suspect any USAIR references.....I can almost guarantee this.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29516 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 24):
only because AA degraded the American flag by taking the stars off of it. I honestly feel that it isn't right of them to do that escpecially when they are AMERICAN Airlines.

And how is that different from US (an abbreviation for the United States) Airways showing a generic pattern (w/no stars) of the American flag?

Quoting Ryefly (Reply 20):
I think it would be nice if the US fleet was updated with the American titles for the time being, as seen in the middle, and the American fleet painted as seen as the plane in the foreground.

I agree w/you regarding the first two 'interim' schemes. However, the foreground scheme should have an eagle on the tail.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineukoverlander From United Kingdom, joined May 2010, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 29538 times:

I doubt it will happen but it would be nice if at least they redesigned the tail logo for the new combined airline. The AA rebrand is one of the most hideous and gaudy abberations to be wheeled out in a long time, lacking in both taste and class. Very sad after the old AA livery which is an absolute classic.

User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 29535 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 27):
I did read that Horton called Parker the night before the logo was reavealed. Parker stated he was happy.
I dont suspect any USAIR references.....I can almost guarantee this.

Too add, Parker has also been vocal in the media that he was asked or given no opportunity for any imput on the new AA rebrand. To me that was interesting. It also was hint then that merger was on its way. That said supposedly Parker is going to be the head of new combined airline and w/ that statement out there I'd guess there is 50/50 chance of yet another rebrand (one can hope).


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29188 times:
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Given the raises and additional payouts that the employee groups are going to be getting if a merger goes through I don't see how it would make any sense for the new management group to spend additional money on another new livery so soon.

If the new management group decides to spend more money on this again I'd be a little worried - hopefully the Board would decide against this move.


User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29074 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 24):
because AA degraded the American flag by taking the stars off of it.

Not only that, but there are no blue stripes on the flag; only a blue background for the white stars.

I e-mailed to AA my dislike of the new livery (the tail in particular) and received a form letter e-mail reply rather quickly, defending it. I think it's clear that a lot of people contacted AA and told them of their dislike of the new livery. Now, rather than losing face, maybe as has been said by others, they'll take the opportunity of the merger to say that they're going to tweak the livery to reflect the merger.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5237 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29083 times:

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 21):
Dear God I hope they come up with a new combined livery. AA's new livery is by far the worst I have ever seen.

Worse than Hughes Air West? That livery was solid lemon yellow with purple trim. The font was garish late 60s/early 70s. When the planes were dirty, they were even uglier.


User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29145 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 19):

Quoting chepos (Reply 4):
Maybe it will be as short lived as the Deltaflot colors.

The correct term is wavy gravy.

The official DL term was "Colors in Motion".

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 27):

I did read that Horton called Parker the night before the logo was reavealed. Parker stated he was happy.

Which makes me think that if Parker likes it and is in control of the new AA/US, the new AA identity will be the surviving one. Even if you hate the new AA livery, the ball's already in motion - why change it for the second time in less than six months?

As for AA's quote that it would take years to rebrand outstations: I think they may have had a merger in mind for the timeframe. First, they'll rebrand the hubs, then the larger outstations with both AA and US, then the US/US Express-only and smaller US/AA outstations. The smaller AA/Eagle-only outstations will probably be rebranded last. For example, Eagle-only FWA got a new ticket counter backdrop two days before AA filed for Chapter 11. And last I checked, UA still hasn't changed their FWA backdrop from the tulip to the globe.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1271 posts, RR: 8
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 28924 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 34):
Even if you hate the new AA livery, the ball's already in motion - why change it for the second time in less than six months?

Better to look silly for six weeks than for years on end. The new livery is a crime against graphic design, and a spectacular waste of resources on the part of existing AA management. It deserves the glue factory, and better to rectify the mistake than to persist with it to try and save face. What good is saving face if you're dressed in a clown suit?


User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 27669 times:

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 35):

Better to look silly for six weeks than for years on end

Agreed. Also only a few planes have been painted. And finally, remember the general public really doesn't care (like we do here)...so why not do it for aesthetic detail sake and peeps will forget this one within a week.

Also to those who cite costs, I think those include the roll of airport signage system wide (which really hasn't started so again there's time). To get a new livery and color scheme alone would be less than seven figures-I think they could afford that.


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 26896 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 27):

Parker never said he was " happy " . I for one think us management is not too fond f the scheme . Wether it will change remains to be seen .


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 26343 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 37):
Parker never said he was " happy " . I for one think us management is not too fond f the scheme . Wether it will change remains to be seen .

It was officially praised by US Airways.

Quote:
US Airways praised the "compelling result" of the redesign, as spokesman Ed Stewart put it.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 26489 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
Well AA wouldn't spend millions on creating a new livery, just to announce a week or so later that this US deal was going to affect the livery.. In some ways, I don't even know why it should be something to discuss. I would expect US to have no say in the livery of the merged airline and all their planes painted with the "Cubana"-esque tail.

  

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
I would suspect a new brand identity will be developed to reflect the combined carrier. This team would most likely be a combination of sub-AA and sub-US marketing managers. It will also give sub-AA the opportunity to "save-face" in burying the mis-guided recent livery change. "American Airways" will retain important aspects of both carriers' brand while presenting a new image to the public.

Official comments from AA, US, and Futurebrand dispute this. Take those however you want. The AA rebranding started before US was even a blip on the radar, and I believe that US had absolutely no say in AA's new branding. They're competitors. Like much of the media, you are assuming that US/AA are merging, which I believe is the wrong assumption.

Also, "American Airways" sounds terrible.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 19):
First, AA started working on rebranding before the Chapter 11 filing. Media accounts say the rebranding discussions started, when AA put in the combined Airbus/Boeing narrowbody order. I wouldn't be surprised, if some memos about the possiblilty of a rebranding started to circulate, when AA finalized the first order for 773s in early 2011.

Second, I don't see American Airlines becoming American Airways. Remember that a lot of people, including myself, say US Air. My father-in-law calls it Useless Air. The name change to US Airways was something that Steve Wolf pushed, when the dark blue livery was introduced. He thought Air was a name for smaller, regional carriers, like Air Cal and Hughes Air West.

If you think about mergers of the past, one name disappears, including Pan Am/National, TWA/Republic, Delta/Western, Delta/Northwest, and American/TWA. Nothing survived from the acquired carrier, when US Air bought Piedmont and PSA. About the only instance of keeping something around from both carriers is the CO/UA merger, with the United name on the Continental livery.

  

Quoting Ryefly (Reply 20):
I think it would be nice if the US fleet was updated with the American titles for the time being, as seen in the middle, and the American fleet painted as seen as the plane in the foreground.

Yuck.

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 23):
That's not going to happen. Millions have been spent coming up with the new American branding and millions more needs to be spent rebranding all of the cities. They aren't going to start from scratch now. Like it or not, the new American is here. If there is a merger, it will be American Airlines with the new branding.

  



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlineIndependence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 26136 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 27):
I did read that Horton called Parker the night before the logo was reavealed. Parker stated he was happy.

That is false. The reveal event was purely an AMR/AA production in which Horton stated twice that day that "US Airways had absolutely no part in the rebranding process."

So far, extremely few paperwork has been produced regarding logo and livery licensing agreements. AMR is slow to get this thing outside of the company and the odds of Parker being in-the-know before the reveal are virtually zero.



"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
User currently offlineYYZbound From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 26069 times:

Some of the responses on here have a wee too much estrogen....but I digress...

Complete side note...does anybody remember the very short-lived paint scheme USAir was going to adopt when they bought PSA, before the Piedmont merger? I believe there were two planes painted...a BAE-146 and a 737.

It consisted of a lot of busy stripes on the tail..varying shades of red...offset by grey and silver..

The new AA tail reminds me of it a bit


User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 26003 times:

Quoting thorntot (Reply 7):
One livery activity I'd like to see carried over to the combined carrier....retro jets!

Can't wait to see a A319 painted in retro AirCal, Reno, and TWA liveries just like the Allegheny, Piedmont, America West, and PSA jets at sub-US.

Wonder if they will use the double-globe, red-block, or final livery for the TWA retro-jet.



Would be great to see the QQ mountain tail fly again! As for TWA I think they would have enough 319s to paint retro colors of all three, just like they have two 319s wearing both HP schemes.



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 26130 times:

Quoting YYZbound (Reply 41):
Complete side note...does anybody remember the very short-lived paint scheme USAir was going to adopt when they bought PSA, before the Piedmont merger? I believe there were two planes painted...a BAE-146 and a 737.

I assume you are talking about this livery:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hans-Werner Klein



I have never read anything suggesting that that livery was anything more than experimental. They certainly didn't have a big public reveal of it. Experimental liveries were also a lot more common in the past. NW, AF, Pan Am, LH and others also had experimental liveries or two.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 25406 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 4):
Maybe it will be as short lived as the Deltaflot colors.

It still lasted longer than the livery it replaced......

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 5):
Changing the name to"American Airways" would have no effect on the new branding really.

American Airways is actually the original name for American Airlines. The name change to American Airlines was the result of the Air Mail Act of 1934 which barred any airline that had previously held air mail contracts (There was a big scandal in which air mail routes were given to airlines in a manner that was secretive and against government policy.) from obtaining any of the new air mail contracts. The solution that was a simple name change. For example, American Airways became American Airlines, United Air Lines became United Airlines, Northwest Airways became Northwest Airlines.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © RAScholefield Collection
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen




What would be a nice livery would be to take the US Airways livery and replace the flag motif on the tail with the AA eagle logo.

[Edited 2013-02-08 15:31:31]

User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1062 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 25110 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 43):
I have never read anything suggesting that that livery was anything more than experimental.

Right. The employee reaction was quite negative, both to this design, and to one applied to a DC-9, which had a tail much like a 'mohawk' haircut (it is almost impossible to find pics of that one). I think the idea was to create a 'California' theme, where US was expanding. I'm told that the designs were done at a very low cost (possibly free) by the design firm .... in hopes of getting the business. In the end, they went for the red/white/blue on polished aluminum.


User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24979 times:

A bunch of folks have suggested that AA be renamed American Airways if there is a merger. I wonder if that is possible based on the Air Mail Act of June 12, 1934 (known as the Black-McKellar bill). In response to the Postermaster Brown "spoils" conference the three airlines that had dominated the air mail industry were forbidden from having future airmail contracts. The three airlines (NW, TW, AA) responded by changing names.

American Airways, based on that legislation, was forbidden from having government contracts to transport mail and became American Airlines (and got new air mail contracts). It might be possible that based on the old legislation that AA can't return to the old name.

Here's a summary of the issue from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Mail_Scandal

BTW - this also contributed to the split of United from Boeing



I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24650 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):

I hope the tail is changed a bit. No matter what anybody says, I am astonished that AMERICAN Airlines butchered the American flag by taking the stars off of it. The stars are the most important part of the flag, and they removed them to put seemingly misplaced stripes.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24577 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 47):
I hope the tail is changed a bit. No matter what anybody says, I am astonished that AMERICAN Airlines butchered the American flag by taking the stars off of it. The stars are the most important part of the flag, and they removed them to put seemingly misplaced stripes.

You mean like how US doesn't include the stars (which makes this entire discussion hilarious, as nobody seems to have a problem with their logo)? Or how ATA didn't include stars in their logo clearly inspired by the American flag?


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1217 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24610 times:
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Quoting skipness1E (Reply 5):

The new branding is directly tied to the fact that the AIRBUS airplanes are not built with Matched ALCLAD aluminum skins which makes the current polished American airlines Livery impossible. Not to mention they ordered 200 A320 NEO ACFT? They Had to come up with a new Livery because they sure as Heck can't fly them UN-painted !!


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24464 times:

I do hope its something that justifies the notion of being a truly-American icon.

Even as a non-American I'd love to see something with a hint of patriotism like something inspired by the stars and stripes. That's what one would expect from AA or US

I sure hope they don't use the recently published new AA livery which was just aweful


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24391 times:
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Quoting Polot (Reply 48):

Yes, but we're talking about American Airlines. The airline that carries the "official" name of the country shouldn't butcher the flag if they have it on their planes. Plus, I can except if they did something like US Airways did, but at least US Airways kept it uniform. AA could have put stars on the flag, but they substituted stripes, for some reason.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24053 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 50):
Yes, but we're talking about American Airlines. The airline that carries the "official" name of the country shouldn't butcher the flag if they have it on their planes.

The "official" name of the country is the United States of America. US Airways is just as close to the official name as American.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 50):
Plus, I can except if they did something like US Airways did, but at least US Airways kept it uniform.

What is that even suppose to mean?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24171 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 48):
The new branding is directly tied to the fact that the AIRBUS airplanes are not built with Matched ALCLAD aluminum skins which makes the current polished American airlines livery impossible.

Reminds me of AA's BAC-111s which had a section of fuselage skin over the wings that must have used a different alloy and even when polished never matched the rest of the fuselage. It's very obvious in most photos.


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User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23839 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 24):
No stars... And less stripes

The new AA tail only has 6 red stripes, whereas the actual flag has 7. This, to me, is even worse, because it's like they forgot to add the last stripe (and it even looks like there's plenty of room to add it!) Is there some obscure law or code that prohibits companies from using the complete, 50 start/13 stripe version of the US flag in a logo or branding like this?



Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23654 times:

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 53):
The new AA tail only has 6 red stripes, whereas the actual flag has 7. This, to me, is even worse, because it's like they forgot to add the last stripe (and it even looks like there's plenty of room to add it!)

I somewhat agree, but as mesaflyguy was trying to point out, and I was disputing was that US Airways has actually been "defacing" the American flag for quite some time now. And if you look closely, at least on the 737 that they painted already it almost looks like they thought about it, and then painted it over and looks discolored.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 54, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23084 times:
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Quoting Polot (Reply 51):

I should have worded that differently, by uniform, I meant that US Airways kept it looking like the flag, amd they kept it simple. The AA tail has too many color variations and overall just too much going on in it. Yes, US did change some details of the flag, but they left it recognizable. The AA tail IMHO looks like a livery created for a virtual airline on one of the ameteur design programs. The tail, again just IMHO, reminds me more if a creative logo with the colors of the American flag. It just doesn't do the flag the right justice.

Once again, this is all solely my opinion. You do not have to agree with me and I am not trying to force you to.

[Edited 2013-02-08 18:41:08]


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineidlewildchild From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 23085 times:

The AA new livery will hold and quickly be put on the US aircraft, and rightly so. If they're going to be 70% of the company, then so be it. Let's hope they quickly create a consistent brand and that the customer service for both entities quickly escalates...with AA returning to caring about customers and their staff!

User currently offlinepiedmont727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22598 times:

i saw a interesting comment on a different post that got me thinking has the merger been in a secret planning well at-least starting with the livery for the merger i mean i heard Horton say in a video if thy merge the new AA livery would stay and if u look at the tail the stripes design are actually similar in style if u exclude the blue on the american , if im far off sorry just something i noticed Also buy US stripes i mean the faded stripes in there
us airways tail by me
aa new livery please dont steal


User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 851 posts, RR: 3
Reply 57, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 22323 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 55):
US Airways kept it looking like the flag, amd they kept it simple. The AA tail has too many color variations and overall just too much going on in it. Yes, US did change some details of the flag, but they left it recognizable. The AA tail IMHO looks like a livery created for a virtual airline on one of the ameteur design programs. The tail, again just IMHO, reminds me more if a creative logo with the colors of the American flag. It just doesn't do the flag the right justice.

I agree. The AA tail is too busy. Something bold, sure. But this just doesnt do the trick. IMO.

JD CRP



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 58, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 21075 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 32):
Worse than Hughes Air West? That livery was solid lemon yellow with purple trim. The font was garish late 60s/early 70s. When the planes were dirty, they were even uglier.

Don't go talkin' smack about the top banana in the west!

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offline757gb From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 20554 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
The new AA tail logo in fact does have something of US Airways in it so the new livery definately is designed with the merger in mind.

  

Agreed. Like it or not, that's one of the first things that came to mind when I saw that tail.



God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 60, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20403 times:

Quoting piedmont727 (Reply 57):
i saw a interesting comment on a different post that got me thinking has the merger been in a secret planning well at-least starting with the livery for the merger i mean i heard Horton say in a video if thy merge the new AA livery would stay and if u look at the tail the stripes design are actually similar in style if u exclude the blue on the american , if im far off sorry just something i noticed Also buy US stripes i mean the faded stripes in there

Actualy the stripes come from their heritqge from America West

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...d=c22dd6dcc2d38e8c03591a9734f3d9c0

As you can see the shadowing, done to the lines; what US did was smooth them out.

I think that if you remember when AC tried to see if their was a way of saving money by only polishing their aircraft with the new tail was as ugly an aircraft can get, IMO.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinehOmsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 20051 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 55):
The AA tail has too many color variations and overall just too much going on in it. Yes, US did change some details of the flag, but they left it recognizable. The AA tail IMHO looks like a livery created for a virtual airline on one of the ameteur design programs. The tail, again just IMHO, reminds me more if a creative logo with the colors of the American flag. It just doesn't do the flag the right justice.

The AA tail looks to me like a Powerpoint background from the 90s, with the different shades of blue that blend from one to the other (and same with the red).



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinelostsound From Canada, joined May 2012, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 19885 times:

The new branding is brilliant in my opinion. And it most definitely is staying so settle down and get used to it people.


"Our hands are full, our lives are not"
User currently offlineflyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 19863 times:

So.. This may be a bit off topic. And I know I have been under a rock.. But do we actually have merger confirmation with US/AA?


"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlinesofianec From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 240 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 19904 times:

The new American livery is great. I love the tail. Love the font. US Airways is too corporate looking, too bland, much like the grey United. AA did a great job conceiving this livery. We should applaud them.


A350WARP
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 19841 times:

Quoting flyorski (Reply 64):
So.. This may be a bit off topic. And I know I have been under a rock.. But do we actually have merger confirmation with US/AA?

Officially, no. But news reports say that it is getting closer and closer to a reality.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineCF-CPI From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 1062 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 19575 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 61):
I think that if you remember when AC tried to see if their was a way of saving money by only polishing their aircraft with the new tail was as ugly an aircraft can get, IMO.

The first time I saw it, I thought "when are they going to finish painting it?" Thank god it only got applied to one 767. At least they could polish the aluminum - can you imagine how it would have looked on an Airbus?
 Wow!


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 67, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 19539 times:

I do not know about the merger, but I like the new design. One cannot miss it from any distance. It is noticed, and is that not the idea?


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 68, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 18263 times:

Hey Doug Parker... congratulations!... now, PLEASE change the tail !!

User currently offlinecageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 18239 times:

So I'm hoping I'll see the PSA A319 in SAN and the Air Cal A319 in SNA.

If only....


User currently offlineAirCalSNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 17772 times:

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 70):
So I'm hoping I'll see the PSA A319 in SAN and the Air Cal A319 in SNA.

If only....

Wow ... that would be great! I take it there isn't an AirCal A319 at the moment, but you're hoping there will be?


User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17747 times:

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 71):
I take it there isn't an AirCal A319 at the moment, but you're hoping there will be?

Exactly.

Maybe we'll even have a RenoAir A319, and a TransCaribbean A321, that would be cool IMO.



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4503 posts, RR: 15
Reply 72, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17706 times:

Well, the US livery with American titles certainly looks better than the American livery by itself. It's a shame that's not what's going to be kept.

But my main concern is for the retrojets. It's really nice have Piedmont and PSA planes flying around, and I sincerely doubt they'll be kept by the combined carrier. I hope I am wrong though. I hope Doug will allow them to continue to exist, alongside any AA retrojets that might be kept. Perhaps a petition could be in order?


User currently offlineatcanobbio From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 17880 times:

AA should have waited for the livery re-do and done something like this as their AA+US livery.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00015470.jpg


User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 74, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 17535 times:

Unfortunately its just been announced they are KEEPING the new livery.

Although these days airline CEOs say they are keeping a lot (aircraft orders, hubs, routes, etc) and never do, so perhaps to Parker its just a minor deet in the whole scale of things that he doesn't want to deal with today and its easier to just say that to the press then get news going on a rebranding aspect instead.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 17306 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 75):
Although these days airline CEOs say they are keeping a lot (aircraft orders, hubs, routes, etc) and never do, so perhaps to Parker its just a minor deet in the whole scale of things that he doesn't want to deal with today and its easier to just say that to the press then get news going on a rebranding aspect instead.

Or you know, they are going to keep it. CEOs say they are going to keep aircraft orders, hubs, routes, etc for political support from the communities and to show they are going to keep jobs (remember AA/US still has to be approved by the government). There is no value in announcing you are keeping the branding now they changing your mind a year later because you secretly always hated it and wanted to change it. If Parker hated it it would be changed before public announcement of the merger so that a uniformed new brand could be presented and AA and US could start to convert towards it over the course of the next few months.


User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 17133 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 73):
I hope I am wrong though. I hope Doug will allow them to continue to exist, alongside any AA retrojets that might be kept. Perhaps a petition could be in order?

I could see these retrojets:

PMUS
-US current livery with American fuselage titles (we may be seeing a lot of these for a short while, but this would be a permanent addition to the fleet)
-US 1989 livery with American fuselage titles (mica paint instead of polished aluminum like on original)
-Allegheny with American fuselage titles
-Piedmont with American fuselage titles
-HP original livery with American fuselage titles
-HP "Jurassic Park" livery with American fuselage titles
-PSA with American fuselage titles

PMAA
-1964-68 Astrojet livery (already in fleet)
-1968-2013 Massimo Vignelli livery (preferably on a plane that can be polished, though mica paint would also work)
-TWA 1960s double-globe with American fuselage titles
-TWA final livery with American fuselage titles
-Trans Caribbean with American fuselage titles
-AirCal rainbow with American fuselage titles
-Reno Air with American fuselage titles

Total of 7 heritage liveries each for US and AA; 14 total



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 77, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 17187 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 77):
-TWA 1960s double-globe with American fuselage titles
-TWA final livery with American fuselage titles

As I have mentioned in other threads, I would be surprised to see any TWA retrojets anytime soon considering how their employees got screwed (not completely AA's fault, the unions share a lot of the blame, but still).

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 77):
-Trans Caribbean with American fuselage titles

Trans Caribbean was such a small carrier absorbed so long ago I doubt we would see a retrojet for them (you never saw Doug Parker trot out a Mohawk retrojet).


User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 17111 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 78):
Trans Caribbean was such a small carrier absorbed so long ago I doubt we would see a retrojet for them (you never saw Doug Parker trot out a Mohawk retrojet).

True, but that single small purchase was the start of AA's dominance in the Caribbean.

Quoting Polot (Reply 78):
As I have mentioned in other threads, I would be surprised to see any TWA retrojets anytime soon considering how their employees got screwed (not completely AA's fault, the unions share a lot of the blame, but still).

Every now and then, you'll run into TWA licensed merchandise like T-shirts and coffee mugs at places like Target. The licensor for these TWA logo items is none other than AMR, and many of these items also have (had?) the AA with scissor eagle design in the copyright area (i.e. T-shirt tag).

[Edited 2013-02-14 16:22:29]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineIFlyTWA From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 16975 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 77):
-TWA 1960s double-globe with American fuselage titles
-TWA final livery with American fuselage titles

I really would like to see this happen. I know plenty of ex-TWA employees at AA would like to see this as well.



"To express the excitement of travel" - Eero Saarinen
User currently offlinecageyjames From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 16561 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 77):
As I have mentioned in other threads, I would be surprised to see any TWA retrojets anytime soon considering how their employees got screwed (not completely AA's fault, the unions share a lot of the blame, but still).

I think when US released the retrojets for old USAir airlines, it did a lot for morale. Even if there are wounds, the fact TW is part of the AA "family" is a huge legacy. I'm not sure we'll see Reno Air or other type livery, but TWA would clearly be added. AirCal might be added if just to show the commitment to LAX region. I'm not sure that is needed with the others.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 81, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16462 times:

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 73):
AA should have waited for the livery re-do and done something like this as their AA+US livery.

OMG!! That is ugly. What are you working in the US post office?



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16189 times:

I think there is still time to change the livery for the merged entity... AND... I think this one by Anthony Harding is the best. I wonder how much they would have to pay him for it.



User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 83, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15636 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 81):

Why? that livery is spot on for a merged look.


User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 84, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days ago) and read 15653 times:

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 73):

Nice.. I would have loved these  

But, I have t admit that even though the tail is not my favorite by far, it has been growing up on me...

By the way, have you guys seen this video? http://youtu.be/nJPTtIOAls4



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15242 times:

New livery may not last long .
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rways-livery-to-be-decided-382391/


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 86, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15123 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 85):
New livery may not last long .

Good! The more I see that tail, the dumber it looks.

Nice quote: "Henry Harteveldt, a travel industry analyst at Hudson Crossing, said on Twitter that it looks like 'the spawn of a three-way between a regional airline, a 1970s charter airline, and a third-world airline' while others said that they liked the look."



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineblueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14983 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 13):
With all the conflict with TWA employees AA has had in its past I would not expect to see a TWA retrojet anytime soon.

i hope its there last one in my opinion i think that was the best or the double red line one



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 14950 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 86):
Good! The more I see that tail, the dumber it looks.

Nice quote: "Henry Harteveldt, a travel industry analyst at Hudson Crossing, said on Twitter that it looks like 'the spawn of a three-way between a regional airline, a 1970s charter airline, and a third-world airline' while others said that they liked the look."

But also note the following:

"At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier."

I think the livery stays because it is the cheapest option.

Quoting questions (Reply 82):
I think there is still time to change the livery for the merged entity... AND... I think this one by Anthony Harding is the best. I wonder how much they would have to pay him for it.

This one is absolutely awful.


User currently offlineblueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 14866 times:

Just saw a youtube video i think the new livery is the new livery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68xF-j9h6us



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineDCA2011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14701 times:

Quoting blueman87 (Reply 89):
Just saw a youtube video i think the new livery is the new livery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68xF-j9h6us

Seems like they took heavy cues from the Atlanta Anthem ad that Delta had around the time of the NW merger. Its as if they had the same storyboard almost.

http://youtu.be/ZCvE6YbVGzA


EDIT: I just watched the two ads at the same time and muted the new American ad while playing the Delta audio. The Delta audio lines up almost perfectly with the scenes from the AA video. Try it and see, its pretty interesting to watch!

[Edited 2013-02-16 19:35:12]


Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 91, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 14634 times:

Quoting DCA2011 (Reply 90):
Seems like they took heavy cues from the Atlanta Anthem ad that Delta had around the time of the NW merger. Its as if they had the same storyboard almost.

That is from when they rebranded, about a year before the NW merger. But yeah, when I first saw the AA video I was reminded about the beginning of this one (although after the opening imagery they move in completely different directions).


User currently offlineMat1776 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 14568 times:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 88):
But also note the following:

"At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier."

I think the livery stays because it is the cheapest option.

It may be cheaper to keep the current US livery and slap the American Airlines title on it. They may save money by having to repaint just the AA planes.

I cannot get used to the new American tail. Besides looking like a product of a design team of 8-year-old kids, the jarring combination of patterns and shades of colours makes me physically ill. albeit mildly.


User currently offlineAllegiantFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14462 times:

i think it would be a cool idea for the new AA (when its finally merged) to have special Liveries for each state,You know being American and all.

User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14459 times:

How about a special livery called Greed -- on one side all the dollars pilfered from employees; on the other side all the money paid out in executive compensation

[Edited 2013-02-16 21:42:08]

User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14535 times:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 88):
This one is absolutely awful.


I agree.


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3629 posts, RR: 12
Reply 96, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14338 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 85):
New livery may not last long .

Wishful thinking by an obviously biased writer who, at the end of his post, specifically quotes one more or less random guy on twitter who hates the look (though identified with the important-sounding "industry analyst" tag), then dismissively adds "while others said that they liked the look" without a quote.

The important part that it sounds like you didn't read is this:

At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier.

There will be no redesign of the livery. This is the livery, and it is time for people to get used to it, whether you like it or not. You don't have to like it, but rehashing the same criticisms over and over as if your opinion on the subject is going to change anything is just not going to help anyone or anything.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 97, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14351 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 96):

  

I really doubt this livery is gonna change. I guess all the people who hate it here just cant accept change...



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 98, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14051 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 97):
I really doubt this livery is gonna change. I guess all the people who hate it here just cant accept change.

I can accept change. I cannot accept bad decisions. If Parker wants to succeed, he is going to have to clean house at AMR corporate HQ and bring in a lot of new blood.


User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 99, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13976 times:

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 98):
I can accept change. I cannot accept bad decisions.

Funny how every change somebody disagrees with is a "bad decision" or a "step in the wrong direction".
Personally, I dislike the new Germanwings livery, because it's the blandest possible re-hash of the brand that you could imagine. I still wouldn't go so far as calling it a "bad decision", because I don't think it is going to have a material impact on operating economics.
Contrary to what who dislike it want to make it appear, the fact that there are people - here as well as (or even particularly) outside aviation enthusiast circles - that do seem to like the new livery suggests that AA's new livery is not unanimously seen as a "bad decision".
May I remind people how much dislike the previous livery got when it was first introduced because it was so crass compared to other liveries of the day. And see how long that one lasted. I'm not necessarily saying that the new AA look is also going to be around for 40+ years, but pointing out that judging the longevity of a livery (which eventually doesn't really influence operating economics) by first responses from a very small circle of people with a level of interest in aviation that the general (travelling) public doesn't share may not give you a very accurate picture.

Also, consider that even in the video introducing the new livery and general corporate identity, Horton mentioned ongoing merger talks. So I'd be pretty sure that the new CI and livery weren't introduced without a minimum level of coordination with US Airways' management.

Furthermore, if Parker is indeed such a shrewd businessman, he'll take into account the money that was already spent on the livery/CI and its introduction in the media and ads. And as he'll agree that going forward AA needs a new identity anyway, he won't see much reason for spending similar amounts again on re-doing the same job again. Which would include another repainting of all AA jets that undergo repainting between now and Q3 (when the merger is expected to be finalised), plus a repaint of all new 737s, 777s and A319s that will be delivered in the same timeframe. In any case, the best they could do would be going from one livery that some people don't like to another livery that roughly the same amount of people (although not necessarily the exact same people) will dislike.
So overall, I expect the post-merger AA livery to be very much the same as the newly introduced AA livery, maybe plus some very minor details that can be taken care of by the use of decals. I could for instance see them going with a representation of all the airline predecessors to the merged AA somewhere on the fuselage, like US already does:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tilthouse/2302903959/
For AA, that could be AL, PS, Piedmont, US, HP, TW, QQ and OC.
(Now, how to fit all of them into a discrete display is another matter   )

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 98):
If Parker wants to succeed, he is going to have to clean house at AMR corporate HQ and bring in a lot of new blood.

Sounds like a good idea, but the livery has nothing to do with that.

[Edited 2013-02-17 08:46:52]


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User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 100, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13868 times:

Quoting blueman87 (Reply 89):
Just saw a youtube video i think the new livery is the new livery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68xF-...9h6us

True - the way the two old AA and US logos merged to become the new AA logo very much suggests that the new AA CI was designed to be the post-merger CI as well. Which makes sense considering that neither the merger talks nor the corporate identity and livery discussions and decisions happened overnight. Also, as I said I'm sure that something as substantial as a planned total identity overhaul for AA would have been discussed during the merger negotiations as well.



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User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 101, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13796 times:

The new carrier will absolutely carry AA's new livery, as awful as it is. I don't even understand how this could be up for discussion?


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineMat1776 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13818 times:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 99):
Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 98):
If Parker wants to succeed, he is going to have to clean house at AMR corporate HQ and bring in a lot of new blood.

Sounds like a good idea, but the livery has nothing to do with that.

One school of thought holds that the management team that, at least partially, was responsible for getting the company into bankruptcy in the first place, is not the best management team to decide on the re-branding out of the bankruptcy.

I presume that AAplat4life's point was that the competency of the re-branding effort was a result of the management team that needed "house cleaned".

In other words, would you trust all of the judgement of the management team that needed "house cleaned"?


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 103, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13752 times:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 100):
Which makes sense considering that neither the merger talks nor the corporate identity and livery discussions and decisions happened overnight. Also, as I said I'm sure that something as substantial as a planned total identity overhaul for AA would have been discussed during the merger negotiations as well.

Which makes you wonder if there was a timing glitch. Said another way, the announcement of the merger and new identity were to coincide but for some reason the talks were held up and AMR had to go ahead with rolling out the new identity then announcing the merger.

Parker obviously new about the new branding work. The degree to which he agreed to it is unknown. If he didn't like what he saw I doubt he would have said anything too strongly because he was focused on the bigger picture -- getting the deal done. Now that he's in control and with a handful of planes painted he has a small window to modify the livery -- e.g., replace the stylized USA flag on the tail with the new flight symbol.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 104, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13745 times:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 88):
I think the livery stays because it is the cheapest option.

Cheaper how? If AA has to paint the fleet anyhow, the new scheme can't be any cheaper than just staying with the US scheme, with the American title. Then the cost of repainting the US fleet is saved, aside from adding "American" to the side. The AA fleet can just be repainted as scheduled maintenance or per the rebrand timeline.

There may be slight cost differences in the US vs AA scheme, but can't guess as to more or less.

Quoting Mat1776 (Reply 92):

It may be cheaper to keep the current US livery and slap the American Airlines title on it.

     



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 105, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13579 times:

Quoting Mat1776 (Reply 102):
One school of thought holds that the management team that, at least partially, was responsible for getting the company into bankruptcy in the first place, is not the best management team to decide on the re-branding out of the bankruptcy.

Firstly, if you think that the management team aren't fit to decide on a cosmetic aspect like a rebrand, why do you think they'd be fit to make a much more far-reaching decision like whether or not to merge with US?
Secondly, it seems to me that Horton did what he could do in those couple of years that he was CEO; he placed the biggest airplane order in history (a much-needed one for AA, given its huge fleet of fuel-guzzling MD-80s), got quite significant concessions from both OEMs on the deal and its financing, finally had AA swallow its pride and enter chapter 11, which enabled necessary new agreements with staff, suppliers and creditors - and he finally paved the way for the merger with US. Sounds alright to me, to be honest, without ever having been a huge fan of AA to begin with.
Thirdly, please keep some perspective: The AA re-branding itself won universal praise, even on a.net (and it wasn't designed by Horton personally, but by the same studio that designed BA's current livery). It's the tail that people on a.net tend to get their knickers in a twist about and are looking for any excuse to get rid of. I understand that aesthetical likes and dislikes can get people really worked up, but trying to paint the tail as a major management screw-up is maybe stretching things a bit far.
Now, if there had been wide-ranging discussions in the non-aviation media about how the tail was distasteful, etc., that would be different. However, the media (and the public) in general seem to have moved on quite quickly. The stance seems to be "It's a new look, let's see what's behind it and whether they live up to the promise of 'A New American'". It's only in aviation forums (particularly a.net - airliners.de's forum has a much more positive attitude to the new look) and aviation media outlets like Flight Global, Scott Hamilton's column, ATW, Aviation Week, etc. that people have a hard time getting over the shock.
Personally, I think this is a good shock, by the way, as it is such a drastic departure from what AA looked like before - and that departure was certainly needed in public opinion which held AA and its looks in much lower regard than the average a.net user.

Quoting questions (Reply 103):
Which makes you wonder if there was a timing glitch. Said another way, the announcement of the merger and new identity were to coincide but for some reason the talks were held up and AMR had to go ahead with rolling out the new identity then announcing the merger.

Parker obviously new about the new branding work. The degree to which he agreed to it is unknown. If he didn't like what he saw I doubt he would have said anything too strongly because he was focused on the bigger picture

I'm pretty sure if there had been any major objections to the new CI and livery, these would have been discussed and been part of the merger discussions, considering that any change post-merger would mean additional cost for the carrier. Particularly if - as you suggest - the original idea was to introduce the livery and CI at the same time as announcing the merger.
Never mind that from an image-perspective, they'd still be better off keeping what they have instead of making a big announcement of "The New American" in the lead-up of the merger, then using the new branding as a differentiator of old AA/old US and new AA, and then changing it again within half a year.
In short, I cannot see them drastically changing their livery (which I like) any more than I can see Germanwings or Finnair change their new liveries (which I hate).

Quoting questions (Reply 103):
Now that he's in control and with a handful of planes painted he has a small window to modify the livery

Don't forget he's not in control yet. The merger is only expected to be completed in Q3 2013.
As I pointed out above, until then, a few dozen existing planes in the fleet as well as a few dozen more newly-delivered 737s, 777s, A319s and A321s will be wearing the new livery. I read somewhere (can't find the source at the moment) that AA want to get about 90 planes painted by the end of 2013. They're also expecting to take delivery of 60 new planes from Airbus and Boeing. So midway through Q3 we're no longer talking about "a handful" of planes any more, but at least 100 new and re-painted planes.

Surely, Parker is going to be part of all important decisions regarding AA/US from here on - but as I said above, I would expect him to have been in the know about any such imprtant decisions (such as the rebrand) in the last few months anyway.

Quoting questions (Reply 103):
-- e.g., replace the stylized USA flag on the tail with the new flight symbol.

A popular suggestion, but I have to admit that all the renditions I've seen of this so far looked stupefyingly boring in my opinion.



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User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 106, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13523 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 104):
Cheaper how? If AA has to paint the fleet anyhow, the new scheme can't be any cheaper than just staying with the US scheme, with the American title. Then the cost of repainting the US fleet is saved, aside from adding "American" to the side. The AA fleet can just be repainted as scheduled maintenance or per the rebrand timeline.

Cheaper in the following ways:
1) Money already spent on the new branding itself.
2) Money already spent on advertising and publicity surrounding the new branding/livery introduction.
3) Money already spent on promoting the new look in the merger announcement publicity (websites, press releases, etc.), thus reinforcing the public profile of the new livery and look.
4) Money that will continue to be spent between now and Q3 on advertising that will use the new look.
5) The fact that the branding itself got a lot of praise - the only part of it that came under criticism (in relatively small circles) was the design on the horizontal stabiliser. Why pay for it and then scrap it - least of all in favour of the US branding? Sounds like utter madness to me.
6) The fact that by the time the merger is completed (i.e. by the time Parker officially takes the helm), there are going to be 100-odd planes in the new AA livery.
7) Everything I said above about planes also applies to the design of check-in counters, departure lounges, etc.
8) They use a "The New American" claim they introduced with the new livery, which coincided with progress on firming orders and reporting a Q4 2012 net profit; they then announced a merger with PR re-using the "New American" claim and stating "US and AA will become AA" and emphasising how the combined entity is basically going to be something new altogether. Now, to go from that to just slapping the US paintjob on AA's planes would not only mean an incredible waste of money, it would also be a much, much bigger PR and image disaster than a tail design disliked by some people on a.net could ever be. And yes, that does matter when considering rebrands. You can only do major rebrands and brand claims every so often if you don't want to water down their effect.
9) The fact that slapping the US paintjob onto AA planes will still not solve the basic dilemma: There will always be people that are going to hate the particular design choice they're making. Slapping the US paintjob (which is also not universally liked) onto AA's planes and calling it "American Airlines" not only looks terribly cheap, but is likely to be even more controversial than the new AA tail currently is. (Imagine you're working for a company that just introduced a new branding that you're not totally happy about - and then your company merges with a much smaller competitor and yet your company is forced to use the smaller company's branding.)

It's been said before in the threads about the new livery itself, but I really think it's time to move on and cope with the fact that some like the new livery, some don't. As is the case with pretty much every other airline livery out there.



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User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 107, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13294 times:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 105):
Quoting questions (Reply 103): -- e.g., replace the stylized USA flag on the tail with the new flight symbol.
A popular suggestion, but I have to admit that all the renditions I've seen of this so far looked stupefyingly boring in my opinion.

Not that bad.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00015567


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 108, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13001 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 107):
Not that bad.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...15567

That works too!!


User currently offlineatcanobbio From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13007 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 107):

this livery is not bad.

But how other have mentioned, at first, I wasn't sure what to think of the new AA livery, especially the tail, but the more pics i see of it, the more I'm starting to like it. I just like how the tail really pops compared to others. It's a head turner i think.

I'm sure some people will never be happy with it since the change was very dramatic and many people thought the new livery was going to be a modernization of the old livery. You can't please everyone, right?

lastly, I have to give AA props for really going of the box with the livery. I wish LH, AF, and other euro airlines would follow suit. The euro-white schemes are really REALLY boring. The only euro-white scheme I like at the moment is VS's livery, only because they use metallic red and it looks great when the sun hits it.

these are my two cents.


User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 110, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12700 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 107):
Not that bad

Sorry to disappoint, but that's one of the renditions I meant. It gives you what is basically a blue tail with no additional design features. The stylised eagle wouldn't stand out much - white/silver/grey on a grey fuselage - and then below it follows a bit of red that looks like an afterthought (mostly hidden by the aircraft's own shadow while on the ground).
All of that takes away from the effect of the logo IMHO, which on its own looks nicely balanced. When applied to the tail like this, it's extremely imbalanced to the point where its character is heavily altered.

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 109):
lastly, I have to give AA props for really going of the box with the livery. I wish LH, AF, and other euro airlines would follow suit. The euro-white schemes are really REALLY boring.

  



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19712 posts, RR: 58
Reply 111, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12663 times:

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 109):
lastly, I have to give AA props for really going of the box with the livery. I wish LH, AF, and other euro airlines would follow suit. The euro-white schemes are really REALLY boring.

How is this any different from the SR EuroWhite scheme? National flag on the tail, name in billboard. Only difference is grey for white and the presence of a corporate logo.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © J.Laporte



I don't have to like it, but I guess I have to get used to it. In all probability, it will be around for some time. And not only that, but after the whole Ron Allen thing at DL, we learned to be careful what we wished for. We wished Ron Allen to go away and got DeltaFlot, instead. That wasn't what we'd had in mind.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 112, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 12560 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 111):
How is this any different from the SR EuroWhite scheme? National flag on the tail, name in billboard. Only difference is grey for white and the presence of a corporate logo.

I don't have to like it, but I guess I have to get used to it. In all probability, it will be around for some time. And not only that, but after the whole Ron Allen thing at DL, we learned to be careful what we wished for. We wished Ron Allen to go away and got DeltaFlot, instead. That wasn't what we'd had in mind.

Or this...



User currently offlineatcanobbio From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12369 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 111):

IMO, I don't think you cannot compare metallic grey vs regular white paint. The cool thing about metallic paints is that the color looks different if it's sunny or cloudy, which in turn creates a cool effect. On the other hand, white paint looks white whether is sunny or cloudy outside, there's no change, making it fairly...boring.


again, this is my opinion. how you said you don't have to like it. Maybe you'll really get used to it in a year or ten  


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 114, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12248 times:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 110):

Sorry to disappoint, but that's one of the renditions I meant. It gives you what is basically a blue tail with no additional design features. The stylised eagle wouldn't stand out much - white/silver/grey on a grey fuselage - and then below it follows a bit of red that looks like an afterthought (mostly hidden by the aircraft's own shadow while on the ground).
All of that takes away from the effect of the logo IMHO, which on its own looks nicely balanced. When applied to the tail like this, it's extremely imbalanced to the point where its character is heavily altered.

If you play around with the colours and shades you can get that Anthony Harding livery look, the blue goes dark, the fuselage gets two shades of grey the darker ones making the eagle really stand out, maybe the engine go blue too.

The Swiss livery is really boring, I would have liked them to have the NWA silver livery, exact same stlying too just put swiss flag cross on tail not the current thinner one, and Swiss on fuselage in thicker font,, with an appropriatelt resized Swiss flag next to it, maybe even as small as the red pointer on the NWA livery just to add that flash of colour onto the fuselage.

[Edited 2013-02-18 22:05:24]

User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 28
Reply 115, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12270 times:

Parker has not confirmed that the new AA livery will stay or go. The fact that he did not answer a direct question is clear enough to me that nothing is for sure here. The merger will require a branding that Parker will ultimately decide. If Parker chooses a new livery, I hope he brings back the eagle, and expands the heritage planes.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12178 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 115):
Parker has not confirmed that the new AA livery will stay or go.

My take on this is that advertising including the new "livery" that AA presented to us is just the discussion that they wanted to start.

Whether it is good or bad, the real purpose of advertising to to get your name out in front of your competitors...and they certainly accomplished that.

Now it remains to be seen if this results in more or less bookings. If more it will stay, if less it may go.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 117, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12131 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 115):
Parker has not confirmed that the new AA livery will stay or go. The fact that he did not answer a direct question is clear enough to me that nothing is for sure here.

If you were Parker, would you want "Horton's Tail" as the mark of the airline you're rebuilding?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days ago) and read 11882 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 117):
If you were Parker, would you want "Horton's Tail" as the mark of the airline you're rebuilding?

If you were Parker, would you want to pay to have a new livery designed when Horton already has?



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineaajfksjubklyn From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 119, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11626 times:

Horton called Parker the day before the logo was released. Parker said he liked it. This was in endless articles online and in the Dallas Morning News. Why is there even a discussion about this?

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 120, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11558 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 118):
If you were Parker, would you want to pay to have a new livery designed when Horton already has?

If I was the CEO, yeah, I'd probably have the tail re-worked seeing how it wasn't widely received well, and it being a reminder of the previous administration. But that's just my personal opinion, since you asked. YMMV



International Homo of Mystery
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11445 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 120):

If I was the CEO, yeah, I'd probably have the tail re-worked seeing how it wasn't widely received well

I think you need to look beyond A.net...



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 122, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11452 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 118):
If you were Parker, would you want to pay to have a new livery designed when Horton already has?

Should make note that the newer US Airways scheme (post-HP merger) was designed in house and not by a third party.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 123, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11344 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 121):
I think you need to look beyond A.net...

I have. I don't want to rehash the whole episode, but there are many sources around the web and in print stating that the tail isn't all that well-liked. Some like it, some don't!

I was asked for my opinion, what I would do, and answered it. Doesn't have to be the same opinion others hold.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 124, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11274 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 123):
I have. I don't want to rehash the whole episode, but there are many sources around the web and in print stating that the tail isn't all that well-liked. Some like it, some don't!

Sure you have... I did as well, but I guess what I saw and what you saw was different...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 123):

I was asked for my opinion, what I would do, and answered it. Doesn't have to be the same opinion others hold.

And you gave your opinion, I was only commenting on the "not well received part"



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 125, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11289 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 124):
I was only commenting on the "not well received part"

I don't know what part of that you missed outside of a.net then. Just one of many examples:

American Airlines gets new livery for no apparent reason ... and it's pretty hideous



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinecactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2448 posts, RR: 30
Reply 126, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11216 times:

I'm obviously in the minority here but I rather like the tail, the more I look at it the more it grows on me.

The only quibble I have with it is that there's only 12 white-grey and red stripes and really should be 13....



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlinesurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11336 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 125):
I don't know what part of that you missed outside of a.net then. Just one of many examples:American Airlines gets new livery for no apparent reason ... and it's pretty hideous

He says the logo looks like "an eagle's beak poking through a shower curtain." Pretty funny.

[Edited 2013-02-19 13:02:23]

User currently offlineMat1776 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11331 times:

I must admit that the new AA tail is not boring.
I personally think it is just as hip, distinctive, modern, and tasteful as this plaid "leisure suit" from the rocking 70s.
http://img2.etsystatic.com/000/0/5724144/il_fullxfull.274289042.jpg

To each his own.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 129, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11318 times:

Quoting cactus739 (Reply 126):
The only quibble I have with it is that there's only 12 white-grey and red stripes and really should be 13....

In many parts of the world 13 is considered an unluckly number (e.g. seat rows numbered 13 on many airlines, especially outside North America, and many hotels skipping 13 in floor numbers).

Reminds me of SN (Brussels Airlines) when they launched their new livery around 2005 with 13 dots on the tail that formed the letter "b" for Brussels. The got quite a bit of feedback that the 13 dots was bad luck and they quickly changd it to add a 14th dot.

Original (13 dots)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Giovanni Verbeeck



Revised, same aircraft (14 dots)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages



User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11354 posts, RR: 52
Reply 130, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11105 times:

Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 127):
He says the logo looks like "an eagle's beak poking through a shower curtain." Pretty funny.

THIS is the winning line: "Colgan had sex with CSA and Cubana on a Greyhound bus in the same weekend and got pregnant. We know Colgan is the mother but we can’t tell who the father is. Nor do we care because the baby is still ugly either way."



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11010 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 120):
If I was the CEO, yeah, I'd probably have the tail re-worked seeing how it wasn't widely received well, and it being a reminder of the previous administration.

Fair enough, I personally wouldn't want to go through having to re-design a livery that was paid for and that an incoming fleet of planes is already going to have applied to it. Maybe its just me that sees it that way. But wouldn't it really confuse the non-aviation-enthusiast public having three current liveries for one airline?



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineYYZbound From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

People hated the Delta livery when it first came out as well...I might add A.netters were quite nasty about it...

...didn't seem to affect the airline's performance


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 133, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10982 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 131):
But wouldn't it really confuse the non-aviation-enthusiast public having three current liveries for one airline?

Delta had three different liveries going at once, at that was for quite some time. The Ron Allen livery, introduced in 1997, didn't get completely painted over until 2008, while Deltaflot was introduced in 2001, I think it was, even while there were still planes flying around in the original widget livery until 2004-2005(?). I'm sure someone will correct for the exact dates if I got them a bit off.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 134, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10844 times:

Take the blue/red thing with the beak like bit. Turn it left about 90 degrees.

Now you have a shark fin moving forward through blue water and trailing blood.

Am I the only one that had this thought?



I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10722 times:

Quoting cactus739 (Reply 126):
The only quibble I have with it is that there's only 12 white-grey and red stripes and really should be 13....

And, don't forget that there are no blue stripes on the flag; blue is the background for the 50 stars. The stars are not represented at all on the tail. So much for the Stars and Stripes.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 136, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10662 times:

They said they were not going to change the original post-merger United scheme - yet they ended up changing that awful font.


User currently offlineantoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1572 posts, RR: 4
Reply 137, posted (1 year 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

Quoting YYZbound (Reply 132):
People hated the Delta livery when it first came out as well...

I didn't like it then. It's grown on me, but it's still a LONG way from my favorite now... I hate the tail because of the tip of the widget is snipped... The tail of the aircraft is the ONLY place in DL's branding where both ends of the widget are cropped. They should have placed and sized it so that they tip of the widget was at the forward edge of the tail and only the back end was cropped off. It would look better and be more consistent with their signage.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 135):
And, don't forget that there are no blue stripes on the flag; blue is the background for the 50 stars. The stars are not represented at all on the tail. So much for the Stars and Stripes.

I, personally, would be very happy if they simply made the blue a solid field, without the white stripes through it.

Quoting ADent (Reply 136):
They said they were not going to change the original post-merger United scheme - yet they ended up changing that awful font.

That font is quite nice... when it says "Continental". it just doesn't work for United because of 2 things: the U and the fact that United has had a sans-serif font for ages. It's the kind of small tweak that can make or break any livery, and yet it's still small enough for them to say "See, we said we were keeping this livery and we did."



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 1
Reply 138, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9967 times:

Quoting aajfksjubklyn (Reply 119):

Parker never said he liked it .


User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10040 times:

I was in Toulouse last monday (feb 18) and I noticed an A320 on the flight line. (the far right of the three planes) It's tail was painted in the present US coulours, while in contrare of the other AC on the flightline the hull was not painted. Could it be this AC will be painted in the new AA scheme?.
Sorry for the bad quality of pic and for having no clues of the regi.
Finkenwerder 18-02-2013



"The world is just a click away!"
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 140, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10004 times:

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 139):
I was in Toulouse last monday (feb 18) and I noticed an A320 on the flight line. (the far right of the three planes) It's tail was painted in the present US coulours, while in contrare of the other AC on the flightline the hull was not painted. Could it be this AC will be painted in the new AA scheme?.

Airbus painting the tail before the fuselage is very common:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent



None of US's planes will be delivered in the new scheme until the merger is actually approved by the authorities, so they don't have to repaint it if the merger falls through.


User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9570 times:

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 139):
Toulouse la

oops to late to edit .... it was Finkenwerder of course



"The world is just a click away!"
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 142, posted (1 year 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 9457 times:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 99):
Furthermore, if Parker is indeed such a shrewd businessman, he'll take into account the money that was already spent on the livery/CI and its introduction in the media and ads.

Yeah but as any shrewd businessman knows, it's a sunk cost and can't be recovered.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 99):
And as he'll agree that going forward AA needs a new identity anyway, he won't see much reason for spending similar amounts again on re-doing the same job again.

Unless it's a dud, and he feels that it is a net negative for the company.

And dismissing it as just aviation fanboy/girl-ism is pretty nonsensical - if branding didn't matter, we'd just fly around all-white tubes with the airline's name on the front. Wait a sec... Finnair.... hrmmmmm!


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 143, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 9195 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 142):
Quoting anfromme (Reply 99):
And as he'll agree that going forward AA needs a new identity anyway, he won't see much reason for spending similar amounts again on re-doing the same job again.

Unless it's a dud, and he feels that it is a net negative for the company.

...which it wasn't. The re-brand has been pretty much praised all around, from passengers to branding professionals, the only area of criticism has been of the tail in certain small circles, otherwise the re-brand has been a success.


User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 101):
The new carrier will absolutely carry AA's new livery, as awful as it is. I don't even understand how this could be up for discussion?
Quoting questions (Reply 103):
Parker obviously new about the new branding work. The degree to which he agreed to it is unknown.
Quoting F9animal (Reply 115):
Parker has not confirmed that the new AA livery will stay or go. The fact that he did not answer a direct question is clear enough to me that nothing is for sure here. The merger will require a branding that Parker will ultimately decide. If Parker chooses a new livery, I hope he brings back the eagle, and expands the heritage planes.

F9animal is right, when asked Parker seemed very disinterested in confirming that the new AA livery would be the livery for the combined airline. He went on to say, "I wasn't involved in the design, you have done some good work, but I don't have an opinion on the livery itself." He did go on to say that Tom would be busy painting lots of airplanes before the merger closes so it will have to be delt with. His body language tells me that he doesn't like it and he has his own idea of what it should be, but until he is in charge, he isn't going to worry about it.

N737AA


User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 145, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 9216 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
...which it wasn't. The re-brand has been pretty much praised all around, from passengers to branding professionals, the only area of criticism has been of the tail in certain small circles, otherwise the re-brand has been a success.

  
Couldn't agree more. Given this, I definitely don't see management (old or new) spending any time, money and effort on getting a new tail design and repainting what by Q3 is going to be around 90 - 100 repainted and newly delivered planes. (Which also means that the new tail is going to be pretty common by then in terms of customer visibility.)

N737AA, you stated in another thread:

Quoting N737AA:
He did say that it would be a hard decision since many planes would be wearing it by the time the deal closes and he takes over.

As I already wrote in that thread:
In my experience, management-speak "it would be a hard decision" means "not going to happen".



Flown on: A300B4, A310-200/-300, A319, A320-100/-200, A321-200, A330-200, A340-500/-600, A380-800, An-24, An-26, ATR42,
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 146, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 9160 times:

Quoting atcanobbio (Reply 73):
AA should have waited for the livery re-do and done something like this as their AA+US livery.

Love it!

Quoting 777way (Reply 107):
Not that bad.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00015567

This works well, too!!!

Quoting anfromme (Reply 105):
I understand that aesthetical likes and dislikes can get people really worked up, but trying to paint the tail as a major management screw-up is maybe stretching things a bit far.

It is an utter management screw-up. The new design is, as Mike Boyd claims, professionally irresponsible. The airline will be spending MILLIONS on this ugly paint scheme and will still layoff hundreds of employees. The thought makes me sick.

Quoting N737AA (Reply 144):
His body language tells me that he doesn't like it and he has his own idea of what it should be, but until he is in charge, he isn't going to worry about it.

So help me God. I really, REALLY hope Parker does something about this disAAster and fixes it before it is too late.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 147, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 9101 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 146):
Quoting anfromme (Reply 105):
I understand that aesthetical likes and dislikes can get people really worked up, but trying to paint the tail as a major management screw-up is maybe stretching things a bit far.

It is an utter management screw-up. The new design is, as Mike Boyd claims, professionally irresponsible. The airline will be spending MILLIONS on this ugly paint scheme and will still layoff hundreds of employees. The thought makes me sick.

Again, ugly to you perhaps, but the reception of the re-brand has been overwhelmingly positive.


User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 28
Reply 148, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 9131 times:

I can promise Parker and team had spent time studying a merger livery way before this paint job was applied. As a betting man, I am going to put my dollar on a new refreshing paint job that will be much more eye catching. And I hope that the Eagle makes a rapid return.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 149, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 9119 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 146):
The new design is, as Mike Boyd claims, professionally irresponsible.

Ironically, that sort of statement coming from an aviation analyst (unless you refer to the basketball player or the Denver-based drummer of the same name), seems in itself to be professionally irresponsible to me.
Clearly somebody trying to leverage his job to push something that really only concerns his own personal taste. Boyd is an aviation analyst (and/or basketball player and/or drummer), not a design/marketing professional. So what exactly is his qualification for making such a statement?
At that, he's also the only business analyst that the new AA design is "professionally irresponsible" - if he really did make that statement. I could also not find any design professionals who would agree with Boyd. Massimo Vignelli, the guy that designed the previous livery (minus the eagle, which he still thinks should not have been added) was critical of the new design - but he's not exactly unbiased.
On the other hand, Mark Kingsley, who has - uhm - some background in brand design (e.g. as lead creative for major accounts with the Landor Associates design studio) has pretty much nothing but praise for the new AA look.

You may not agree with Kingsley (or, in my case, Vignelli), but this - along with the other positive responses here and elsewhere - clearly shows that the new design isn't a clear-cut "awful idea, no buts about it". It divides opinion, but it's clearly not "irresponsible" any more than, say, the new Germanwings, Iberia or any other livery is "irresponsible". No matter how much I personally dislike a particular livery.

Scott Hamilton (the aviation analyst, not the figure skater) is also not a huge fan of the tail, but he always makes clear that that's his own taste. He'd never stoop so low as to use his standing as an analyst to try and push his own personal taste; i.e. he'd never claim that the design would have any effect on AA's chances of succes and its bottom line (which is basically what Boyd is implying).

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 146):
It is an utter management screw-up. The new design is, as Mike Boyd claims, professionally irresponsible. The airline will be spending MILLIONS on this ugly paint scheme and will still layoff hundreds of employees. The thought makes me sick.

Well, you're definitely proving my point here:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 105):
I understand that aesthetical likes and dislikes can get people really worked up,

I may add: So worked up that people tend to lose any sense of perspective.



Flown on: A300B4, A310-200/-300, A319, A320-100/-200, A321-200, A330-200, A340-500/-600, A380-800, An-24, An-26, ATR42,
User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 150, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 9162 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 148):
As a betting man, I am going to put my dollar on a new refreshing paint job that will be much more eye catching.

[i]More[i/] eye-catching that than bright red-blue-white tail that some people already think is standing out too much? Doesn't sound like such a great idea.
Anyway, I'll firmly place my $ (or even a full €) on "There will not be any drastic change to the livery once the merger is complete."  

Now, probably time to talk about something else in the meantime...  



Flown on: A300B4, A310-200/-300, A319, A320-100/-200, A321-200, A330-200, A340-500/-600, A380-800, An-24, An-26, ATR42,
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2659 posts, RR: 4
Reply 151, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 9083 times:

Personally, I think livery will remain as it is. American is a stronger brand name than US Airways. The new airline will be "American Airlines". So the livery will remain unchanged. I'm pretty sure they had the merger in mind when coming up with this re-brand.


arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 152, posted (1 year 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 9208 times:

While some have commented regarding the future of US' current heritage schemes (and whether more will be added); nobody has yet commented on whether US' NFL schemes (Eagles, Steelers, Panthers) will continue (w/American titles en lieu of US Airways titles) or not.

Yes, I realize that answer may be subject to whether AA (under Parker) will continue w/those sponsorships; but it's still worth throwing out there.

If AA continues such sponsorships and paints a plane in a Dallas Cowboys scheme and parks it next to the Philadlephia Eagles' scheme A319 at eitehr PHL or DFW; that plane scheme rivalry could equal that of the Bud Bowl



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 1
Reply 153, posted (1 year 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 9136 times:

A new weekly employee publication on the US side of things called " Arrivals " debuted yesterday the 20th. It will give weekly updates on the merger front . There is also a Q&A section along with it . This question was asked and answered .

Q. What will happen to the American Airlines and
US Airways branding and livery?
A . American Airlines is one of the most iconic brands in
the world, and we are excited to operate under that globally recognized brand name. More specific branding and livery decisions will be made in due course as we move forward in the integration-planning process .


Take it how you wish but I think the current New AA livery will be short lived..


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 4
Reply 154, posted (1 year 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 9056 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
The re-brand has been pretty much praised all around, from passengers to branding professionals,
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 147):
but the reception of the re-brand has been overwhelmingly positive.

Can you quantify this? At best I've seen "mixed" reviews and a split between opinions of the logo (not bad) and the livery (quite bad).


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 155, posted (1 year 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 8997 times:
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Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 154):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):The re-brand has been pretty much praised all around, from passengers to branding professionals,Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 147):but the reception of the re-brand has been overwhelmingly positive.Can you quantify this? At best I've seen "mixed" reviews and a split between opinions of the logo (not bad) and the livery (quite bad).

Great point; so far most responses I've seen have been either indifferent or overwhelmingly negative. Very few positive responses.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 156, posted (1 year 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 9038 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 154):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
The re-brand has been pretty much praised all around, from passengers to branding professionals,
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 147):
but the reception of the re-brand has been overwhelmingly positive.

Can you quantify this? At best I've seen "mixed" reviews and a split between opinions of the logo (not bad) and the livery (quite bad).

Quantify? No. Unless there's been a comprehensive poll of the new brand that I'm unaware of, but there indicators one can refer to as well as going off of mainstream branding and industry sources instead of us nostalgic aviation nut jobs who would just as soon love AA to still be flying the 727, let alone be re-branded (no offense intended of course   ), it's been a success.

http://simpliflying.com/2013/a-stati...t-of-american-airlines-rebranding/

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1671677/...itself-and-america-along-with-it#1

http://www.underconsideration.com/br...ind_of_american_exceptionalism.php

EDIT:
Pay particular attention to the first link, it's an excellent analysis of the social media impact of the new branding...and the closest we'll really get to a quantifiable poll. It's an excellence source as it not only documents the activity regarding the brand, but important indicators such as "fans" and "subscribers".

[Edited 2013-02-21 14:20:06]

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 157, posted (1 year 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8907 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
I prefer US Airways title font, hope they can adopt that, helvetica does not suit this new livery and American Airways sounds nice too.

Why? They will not spend more money on rebranding a rebrand. That is just a waste of money of which Doug Parker has never been known for.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 85):
New livery may not last long .
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rways-livery-to-be-decided-382391/

This is a quote from an article posted above:

At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier

The above may indicate that the new livery is here to stay.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 158, posted (1 year 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 9022 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 157):
Quoting etops1 (Reply 85):
New livery may not last long .
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rways-livery-to-be-decided-382391/

This is a quote from an article posted above:

At US Airways Parker has been known as a cost-conscious executive, not spending, for example, on advertising because the return did not justify the expense, and is unlikely to take on any additional costs that do not have an evident revenue benefit at the merged carrier

The above may indicate that the new livery is here to stay.

  

I also found this quote from Parker from this USA Today article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...rlines-to-unveil-new-look/1841591/

"We applaud our friends at American as the new brand elements and livery mark the culmination of a significant amount of work and coordination, and clearly those efforts have produced a compelling result."

Parker seems to me like the kind of guy who's content on letting the "nerds" take care of all the artsy brand stuff while leaving the actual running of the airline to him.


User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 159, posted (1 year 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8912 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 154):
Can you quantify this? At best I've seen "mixed" reviews and a split between opinions of the logo (not bad) and the livery (quite bad).

Can you quantify that yourself? With something other than opinions voiced in a.net threads, that is?
Seems like selective perception on your part, to be honest. There are certainly more opinions out there than the "Logo is not bad, tail is terrible" opinion that you imply is the only split of opinion there is.
You'll be surprised to find that even in this thread - as well as the preceding and related ones on a.net - and also in other aviation enthusiast forums there are quite a few people that think the branding and the livery are great.
Check this out - although be warned that the first thing you'll see is a 767-300 freshly painted in the new colours:
http://www.wings900.com/vb/spotting/...-aa-767-new-livery-roswell-nm.html

Everybody outside the aviation enthusiast community that I've heard commenting on the livery said they quite liked it. Anecdotal evidence, yes, but so is what you've said.
Also refer to my previous post:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 149):
Mark Kingsley, who has - uhm - some background in brand design (e.g. as lead creative for major accounts with the Landor Associates design studio) has pretty much nothing but praise for the new AA look.

Then, there's an op-ed piece on creativereview.co.uk, the website for monthly commercial art and design magazine Creative Review. In it, the magazine's editor, Patrick Burgoyne, writes (some members better brace themselves now):

Quote:
The highlight for me is the tail livery. [...] it looks really beautiful and indisputably American.

There's another few design professionals quoted by Forbes.
Nik Hafermaas, who chairs the Graphic Design Department at Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, California:

Quote:
So, is it good or not? “Overall,” Hafermaas said, “I really applaud the bold step forward for a corporation of that exposure and that tradition.”

Kim Erwin, Assistant Professor, IIT Institute of Design, in Chicago:

Quote:
The effect is modern and dignified and strikes a nice balance between history and the new century.

Yes, they also have Kevin Gatta, Professor of Graduate Communications & Package Design at Brooklyn’s Pratt Institute, whose first complaint was why the "silver bird" look had to go. We all know the answer to that one. He thinks the livery would look better without the logo and the tail. Make of that what you will. A grey plane with the dark-grey word "American" on it for example.
In any case - my point being that there is some substance to flyguy89's claim that "the reception of the re-brand has been overwhelmingly positive." None of those that like the new livery claimed that everybody liked it; contrary to some here that hate the livery and who want to create the impression that everybody hates it.

In that sense, a.net may be a bit like Fox News or MSNBC; it keeps you in an information bubble. If you only read a.net, you really are surprised to find that everybody else does not hate AA's new livery and branding.

In any case, that Forbes article I quoted makes two points that I think are important.
Firstly:

Quote:
Everyone, it seems, has an opinion on the redesign of American Airlines’ logo and livery, announced last week. In casual conversation, I’ve heard “love it,” “hate it” and everything in between.

That in itself is of a value that should not be underestimated. There's a reporter that actually heard people talk about AA in casual conversation. And not in the context of Chapter 11. As I said, I found the same thing (with less difference in opinion, but that's besides the point) - people talking about the airline. The new branding creates some awareness, in an easily accessible way, and it clearly distinguishes itself from the previous image anybody may have had of AA. You don't have to know what Chapter 11 is to be able to causally converse about the new livery.

Secondly:

Quote:
“What will be vastly more important than the paint on their tailpipe will be the experiences of customers, crew and partners of American Airlines,” says Erwin. All this money and effort spent on the redesign “is likely to inflame customers and crew who are expected to endure a painfully bad service model inside those newly decked out planes. Let’s hope the identity is the launch of something bigger and more ambitious.”

The radical new livery is a clear sign of a "new" American (as the tagline AA uses in advertising of the new branding and the merger says). That livery and the new branding allow them to reset the relationship with their customers, which certainly hasn't been a happy one in recent years. But in a year's time, it won't matter whether the tail has one or two gradients to many for some people's taste. What will matter is whether AA delivers on the new Corporate Identity's promise of providing a new customer experience and acting like a different airline than before. I.e. what you see and feel when you're checking in, boarding your flight - and when you're on board.
Those aspects are what AA should focus on now if they want to succeed in the future - not yet another redesign, which would surely prompt customer and analyst comments like "Seems they have enough money after all if they can afford two redesigns and plane repaints within a year", while it would really give them very little. Other than a new mix of people loving/hating the new-new livery or tail design on a.net.



Flown on: A300B4, A310-200/-300, A319, A320-100/-200, A321-200, A330-200, A340-500/-600, A380-800, An-24, An-26, ATR42,
User currently offlineanfromme From Ireland, joined Feb 2012, 451 posts, RR: 11
Reply 160, posted (1 year 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 8835 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 158):
"We applaud our friends at American as the new brand elements and livery mark the culmination of a significant amount of work and coordination, and clearly those efforts have produced a compelling result."

Thanks for that quote.
If somebody "applauds" the new livery and brand, and calls them "compelling" it's hard to see that same person nixing them six months later at significant expense.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 156):

http://simpliflying.com/2013/a-stati...t-of-american-airlines-rebranding/

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1671677/...itself-and-america-along-with-it#1

http://www.underconsideration.com/br...ind_of_american_exceptionalism.php

EDIT:
Pay particular attention to the first link, it's an excellent analysis of the social media impact of the new branding...and the closest we'll really get to a quantifiable poll. It's an excellence source as it not only documents the activity regarding the brand, but important indicators such as "fans" and "subscribers".

Thanks for those links. Interesting reading. Also demonstrates that the branding and related social media interactions were clearly not done by amateurs. (I knew they weren't, but some members here would want you to believe that the whole thing was amateurish, even a "major management screw-up".)

They've got people's attention now - don't waste that by doing another rebrand or livery change to little effect. People have seen you can pull that sort of trick already; it gets old quite quickly. What about something a bit more substantial, now? Like WiFi on flights, a free bottle of champagne for one person on 10 randomly selected flighty every day... you know, something to capture people's imagination, engages them and makes them more likely to choose American Airlines for their next trip.

[Edited 2013-02-21 15:32:08]


Flown on: A300B4, A310-200/-300, A319, A320-100/-200, A321-200, A330-200, A340-500/-600, A380-800, An-24, An-26, ATR42,
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 161, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8285 times:

To throw some more fuel on the fire today...comments from Parker regarding the livery.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11858...-merger-tip-to-us-airways-ceo.html

Quote:
Parker also said that no decision has been made on the livery for the new airline. In January, American unveiled new livery after two years of development.

"Most of our customers don't care what the outside of the airplane looks like," Parker said. "It doesn't affect their purchase decisions. (But) it's really important to employees, who care a lot about it, and I care about that."

"We'll take some time and talk to people and put that on the list of a number of things we have to figure out," he said.

Sounds like the livery is completely up for grabs still. The fairly blank canvas of the new AA scheme will allow them to tweak it pretty easily. I think the logo and text font stay the same, but the rest might get revisited. Especially if he is going to take employee feelings into consideration. This also pretty much guarantees, in my opinion, that we'll see the heritage logo get and update and more heritage aircraft appear.

Keep in mind, US Airways developed the latest livery in house...no reason they won't do it again.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 162, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

To say that customers dont care about what the plane looks like from the outside is rubbish. Thats its not decisive when buying a ticket, sure thats obvious, but thats not the same as saying they dont care.

The new livery is simple enough to be changed quickly without a full repaint. I do expect some tweaks, and maybe a slightly different tail, but largely it´ll be the new AA livery. US Airways does not possess a true traditional look that would make it important to take over into a postmerger-CI. They always had some stripes, yes, but that can already be found on the AA livery.


User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 163, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8124 times:

From some the comments I have read from employees, they are not feeling the tail, and some have stated the silver paint is not metallic enough. Now how widespread are those feelings are up to debate. I just do not get the base gray/pseudo silver paint that suppose to reflect AA's iconic metallic look. They should have went more silver like the Jetstar paint.

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot..._id+desc&page_limit=15&thumbnails=

Notice how the Jetstar paint do not seem to fade with age, like the mica based NWA paint (similar to AA) did .


User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5054 posts, RR: 28
Reply 164, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

I just want the Eagle back! Paint the plane orange for all I care! Put a big fat eagle on the fuselage!  

And please, pretty pretty please!! Keep the heritage planes, and grow them to include AA's past!!!!!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 165, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7923 times:

Quoting anfromme (Reply 149):
Ironically, that sort of statement coming from an aviation analyst (unless you refer to the basketball player or the Denver-based drummer of the same name), seems in itself to be professionally irresponsible to me.

He's entitled to his opinions and doesn't have to always play by the rules. It always amuses me how people seem to be more sensitive towards his reactions on certain topics rather than towards the actual topic at hand. People can say what they want, but, quite frankly, 99% of the time Boyd's predictions are spot-on. I think this, in turn, harbors further resentment among the apologists who simply cannot embrace his expertise at face value.

More often than not, in the airline industry, the less popular people with the crazy ideas often wind up on top.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 149):
Clearly somebody trying to leverage his job to push something that really only concerns his own personal taste. Boyd is an aviation analyst (and/or basketball player and/or drummer), not a design/marketing professional. So what exactly is his qualification for making such a statement?

He's not trying to leverage his job. You don't have to be a design/marketing professional, as you claim, to note that the new livery is sloppy and underwhelming. There literally is ZERO logical thought process behind how the ideas came together, and he's entitled to call American out on it.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 149):
At that, he's also the only business analyst that the new AA design is "professionally irresponsible" - if he really did make that statement. I could also not find any design professionals who would agree with Boyd. Massi