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When Will OS Replace The 767's And TK The 340's?  
User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10788 times:

I'm new to this forum, and this is my first post. Does anyone know when will Austrian replace their aging 767? When will Turkish replace their aging 340-300? I have flown on a brand new Turkish 330 from IAD to IST before, and the there's a significant difference in comfort between the new 330 and the old 340 now flying this route. Will Turkish ever switch to the 330 on this route?

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1453 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10768 times:

TK's 340s will be replaced by 333s and 77Ws in the next few years and by then I think the IST-IAD market will be mature enough to handle 777s especially if they build a better partnership with UA via IAD.


Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10749 times:

The TK A340 fleet has been shrinking slowly.
2 examples left the fleet in 2012 as leases ended and a 3rd example is for sale.

For IAD, the A330 operates the route regularly - for example of last 14 flights - 7 have been on the A333, while other 7 were A340.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10718 times:

LAXintl, where did you look up what planes operated the last 14 flights?

User currently offlinebgm From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10721 times:

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tk7

Pozdrav  


User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10649 times:

Pozdrav bgm   I don't think that website is accurate. It also shows TK7 being flown by A319, B737, etc.

User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 833 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10613 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 5):
I don't think that website is accurate

Blasphemy!  


Welcome to the forum.


On the topic of the OS 767s, I believe LH is waiting for an outcome of the practicability of 787 and/or A350 in regular service and then decide accordingly. Last I heard the 767s got new outfitting recently, so they are likely staying with the company for some more time.
Smart move by LH methinks, not to jump on the newest invention straight away. Let the competition test it out and choose the best afterwards.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10584 times:

Quoting skopsko (Thread starter):
Does anyone know when will Austrian replace their aging 767?

LH wants OS to return to profitability before they begin to order new Longhaul aircraft, and they are waiting to see how the 787 and A350 turn out.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):

On the topic of the OS 767s, I believe LH is waiting for an outcome of the practicability of 787 and/or A350 in regular service and then decide accordingly. Last I heard the 767s got new outfitting recently, so they are likely staying with the company for some more time.

  

And the new interiors are fantastic!


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10554 times:

788 is the smallest step from 763 so if size matters the A350 is a no go.

User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10411 times:

G'day

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):
Smart move by LH methinks, not to jump on the newest invention straight away. Let the competition test it out and choose the best afterwards

They jumped on the 747-8i straight away, in hindsight that may not have been their best bet though     

Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10342 times:

You can look at flights history at

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/T...8/history/20130209/0430Z/KIAD/LTBA

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 833 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 10262 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 9):
They jumped on the 747-8i straight away, in hindsight that may not have been their best bet though
Hah I knew somebody would come up with this argument (or the A380 or 737classic), but the matter of the fact is that LH wanted these aircraft even before they were built, so they were actively working together with Airbus/Boeing at the time.
I don't think that is the case with the A350 and/or 787. Gotcha  

[Edited 2013-02-09 10:29:33]


// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10036 times:

Well, I've avoided flying OS to Vienna because of those old 767. I just don't think it's a comfortable ride. They may never be profitable unless they invest in a better product. The updated cabin, while improved, looks very retro. I loved the original A330 that OS used to fly to IAD. I don't understand why they sold those and kept the 767.

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10000 times:

The 767 has one thing that it excels at, 2-3-2 SK used to have 767s and I loved them, such comfortable rides, compared to the old DC10s 2-5-2 as I managed to end up in the middle of the 5 twice and not knowing the 4 others persons.

2-3-2 is almost the best cross section you can have, anyone is just 1 or none seat from the aisle. 2-4-2 is ok too but still a lot more people to fight with at the baggage claim  


User currently offlineeisenbach From Austria, joined Mar 2001, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9201 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 12):
Well, I've avoided flying OS to Vienna because of those old 767. I just don't think it's a comfortable ride. They may never be profitable unless they invest in a better product. The updated cabin, while improved, looks very retro. I loved the original A330 that OS used to fly to IAD. I don't understand why they sold those and kept the 767.

Interesting question, thanks.

In my opinion the OS management in the past was very shortsighted, especially as (before LH came) the board was always politically selected. Insiders told me, that the OS A330/340s had a larger value on the market than their B767/777s at this time. As OS was always struggling with their finances, this was a quicker way for this management to earn money.

Sorry for no more details, I am writing from my phone, which is very annoying  



Do228, Saab340, Twin-Otter, C212, Fokker50, AN24, ATR42, ATR72, Dash8-400Q, MD90, MD83, EMB120, A300, A343, B721, B743,.
User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7349 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 12):
The 767 has one thing that it excels at, 2-3-2 SK used to have 767s and I loved them, such comfortable rides

I am in total agreement, down here in Australia I always try and fly the Qantas 767's domestically. They are a lovely ride, similarly AC still fly many many 767's internationally. Along with the 330 they are my favourite plane and I hope they keep flying for years


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6945 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6788 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 12):
The updated cabin, while improved, looks very retro.

Which cabin are you talking about? The refurbished 767 cabin with new seats even includes 777-style bins.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently onlinea36001 From Australia, joined Sep 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6374 times:

Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 15):

Absolutely agree!! The 767 layout is IMO by far the most comfortable! And a great ride! Will miss them in the QF fleet once gone. I remember reading the OS Airbuses were leased and the 767's were owned or cheaper to lease so at the time it was farewell to the Airbuses. There was a thread ages ago about this but can't seem to pull it up, shame because it was a interesting read... 


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6346 times:

Quoting a36001 (Reply 17):
remember reading the OS Airbuses were leased and the 767's were owned or cheaper to lease so at the time it was farewell to the Airbuses.

The OS Airbus 340s/330s were leased, but the 767 and 777s were inherited from Lauda when OS bought them in the early 2000s.


User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
Which cabin are you talking about? The refurbished 767 cabin with new seats even includes 777-style bins.

The last time a flew on OS 767 was about 1.5 years ago. The cabin looked updated but very retro and basic. The PTVs and the programming were also pretty basic.


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 19):
The last time a flew on OS 767 was about 1.5 years ago. The cabin looked updated but very retro and basic. The PTVs and the programming were also pretty basic.

No, that is the original Cabin.

What we're talking about is a completely new cabin with new seats, AVOD, pivot bins, etc.

To most people it should be like flying on a brand new plane.


User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 20):
What we're talking about is a completely new cabin with new seats, AVOD, pivot bins, etc.

To most people it should be like flying on a brand new plane.

With the investment in the new interiors, I think OS plans to keep the current planes around for a while longer.


User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

LH ran their 747's up to 120,000 hours. Just shows what you can do with good maintenance. I wonder what the target is with 767's, I know they are an AC workhorse and again hope they have many more years in them.

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4995 times:

I have read once that OS might get some more 777s ? Is this still on the table ?

LH will place an order for long haul aircraft this year and this will probably also affect LX and OS. For now they decided to do the same as Condor did, improve the cabin and add winglets to fly the aircraft for another couple of years till the next generation of aircraft is available.

LH seems to have an interesting strategy with their older aircraft, on the one hand sell a few aircraft as long as you get some money for them (e.g. the A340s they have sold to the German goverment or the ones that have now ended up in Iran) but with most of their fleet fly them as long as possible (737s, 747s)



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 23):
I have read once that OS might get some more 777s ? Is this still on the table ?

I haven't heard anything to the contrary - if they make the black numbers, they are supposed to get four more 777-200ERs (IIRC the plan was two in 2014, one in '15, and one in '16, but that might have changed).



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
25 Semaex : The December issue of AERO Intl features a little article stating that due to low morale, a lot of 777 pilots left OS for BOX. Are they short of crew
26 Douglasyxz : The decision is not about crew-shortage or not, it is just about financial situation at OS. This has been stated quite a couple of times by top LH ex
27 sweair : The 789 would be a good 772 and 763 replacement in one body? A little less seats than a 772 but with the same range and more capacity then the 763.
28 toobz : Was very surprised to see OS brought up! The refurbished 767 is beautiful. No need for replacement. I suggest you take a more recent peak at the aircr
29 AustrianZRH : They are well maintained and paid for. They still do a good job hauling people from VIE to their destinations. With the refurbishment, the hard produ
30 SpaceshipDC10 : Well, if OS target is to be back in the black before getting any new aircraft, then they better invest in what they have to remain attractive to payi
31 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G'day I guess the days when you could get a 787 for 130 million $ are likely a thing of the past Cheers Peter
32 SEPilot : Might this be a result of their being burned by committing to the A346 before giving the 77W a chance, and regretting it afterwards? Even though the
33 AustrianZRH : Well, a Boeing 787-8 lists at 206.6 million dollars, so when you work with an estimated discount of 35% (I went with a.net wisdom here), you are at a
34 Post contains images Semaex : I think this question deserves a thread for itself - if there isn't yet one out there - but I believe LH had their reasons to opt for the A346. Let's
35 Douglasyxz : Folks, let's get back to the main topic of this thread instead of doing speculation about LH and their 346. That's another issue. My thoughts about ne
36 skopsko : Can anyone post photos of the new refurbished OS 767 cabin? When will all OS 767 be refurbished?
37 sweair : Actually I could see a combo of 788 and 789 for OS, the 788 replacing the 763er and the 7889 replacing the 772, a little less capacity but a lot more
38 Post contains images a3xx900 : Thanks, I was gonna ask
39 Post contains images ETinCaribe : I was curious so looked it up. Of the 6x 767s at OS, 3 are over 20 yrs old, and the other three are 12/13/14 years old. So how long does OS plan on k
40 Post contains links LOWS : New Business: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7QuC5_dvfo I can't find the new economy, but the basic thing is the complete new package from Heath with
41 Douglasyxz : The business seats and the 2-1-2 configuration is similar to LX's fleet. I've been on their 340 a couple of times and really like config and seats in
42 LOWS : Apparently, most decisions for OS are being made at FRA these days, not in VIE. I can hardly blame them...
43 SpaceshipDC10 : Actually, it happens at CGN.[Edited 2013-02-14 03:17:18]
44 Semaex : And they sure are made for the better. Any gamble on when OS is going black again? My bet is on FY2015.
45 Post contains links AustrianZRH : 767: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/02/ga...efit-of-the-boeing-767-in-shannon/ 777: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/01/ga...rsion-of-the-boeing-777-in-
46 a3xx900 : Great links, thank you!
47 SEPilot : In discussing the issue of LH delaying the decision until both the A350 and 787 are in service it is relevant to discuss LH's decisions in the past.
48 ETinCaribe : Thanks, very nice indeed. Well done OS!!!
49 skopsko : The new cabins are really nice, but how about upgrading the engines? The newer engine models are much less noisy than what's on the OS 767 right now,
50 columba : According the chief 747 pilot of LH, LH will order new long haul planes third quarter of this year. I doubt they wait as long as both the 787 and A35
51 Semaex : Thank you big time for the links! Just one question: Is there really no First on OS longhaul??
52 AustrianZRH : No, two-class only. I'm not even sure if the 77W was already offered when they first ordered the A346, but the miraculous performance was surely not
53 SEPilot : I'm quite sure that LH knew that Boeing was going to do the 77W, even if it was not yet officially for sale. Airlines and aircraft manufacturers comm
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