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When Will OS Replace The 767's And TK The 340's?  
User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10580 times:

I'm new to this forum, and this is my first post. Does anyone know when will Austrian replace their aging 767? When will Turkish replace their aging 340-300? I have flown on a brand new Turkish 330 from IAD to IST before, and the there's a significant difference in comfort between the new 330 and the old 340 now flying this route. Will Turkish ever switch to the 330 on this route?

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10560 times:

TK's 340s will be replaced by 333s and 77Ws in the next few years and by then I think the IST-IAD market will be mature enough to handle 777s especially if they build a better partnership with UA via IAD.


Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10541 times:

The TK A340 fleet has been shrinking slowly.
2 examples left the fleet in 2012 as leases ended and a 3rd example is for sale.

For IAD, the A330 operates the route regularly - for example of last 14 flights - 7 have been on the A333, while other 7 were A340.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10510 times:

LAXintl, where did you look up what planes operated the last 14 flights?

User currently offlinebgm From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10513 times:

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tk7

Pozdrav  


User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10441 times:

Pozdrav bgm   I don't think that website is accurate. It also shows TK7 being flown by A319, B737, etc.

User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10405 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 5):
I don't think that website is accurate

Blasphemy!  


Welcome to the forum.


On the topic of the OS 767s, I believe LH is waiting for an outcome of the practicability of 787 and/or A350 in regular service and then decide accordingly. Last I heard the 767s got new outfitting recently, so they are likely staying with the company for some more time.
Smart move by LH methinks, not to jump on the newest invention straight away. Let the competition test it out and choose the best afterwards.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10376 times:

Quoting skopsko (Thread starter):
Does anyone know when will Austrian replace their aging 767?

LH wants OS to return to profitability before they begin to order new Longhaul aircraft, and they are waiting to see how the 787 and A350 turn out.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):

On the topic of the OS 767s, I believe LH is waiting for an outcome of the practicability of 787 and/or A350 in regular service and then decide accordingly. Last I heard the 767s got new outfitting recently, so they are likely staying with the company for some more time.

  

And the new interiors are fantastic!


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10346 times:

788 is the smallest step from 763 so if size matters the A350 is a no go.

User currently onlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10203 times:

G'day

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):
Smart move by LH methinks, not to jump on the newest invention straight away. Let the competition test it out and choose the best afterwards

They jumped on the 747-8i straight away, in hindsight that may not have been their best bet though     

Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10134 times:

You can look at flights history at

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/T...8/history/20130209/0430Z/KIAD/LTBA

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10054 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 9):
They jumped on the 747-8i straight away, in hindsight that may not have been their best bet though
Hah I knew somebody would come up with this argument (or the A380 or 737classic), but the matter of the fact is that LH wanted these aircraft even before they were built, so they were actively working together with Airbus/Boeing at the time.
I don't think that is the case with the A350 and/or 787. Gotcha  

[Edited 2013-02-09 10:29:33]


// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9828 times:

Well, I've avoided flying OS to Vienna because of those old 767. I just don't think it's a comfortable ride. They may never be profitable unless they invest in a better product. The updated cabin, while improved, looks very retro. I loved the original A330 that OS used to fly to IAD. I don't understand why they sold those and kept the 767.

User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9792 times:

The 767 has one thing that it excels at, 2-3-2 SK used to have 767s and I loved them, such comfortable rides, compared to the old DC10s 2-5-2 as I managed to end up in the middle of the 5 twice and not knowing the 4 others persons.

2-3-2 is almost the best cross section you can have, anyone is just 1 or none seat from the aisle. 2-4-2 is ok too but still a lot more people to fight with at the baggage claim  


User currently offlineeisenbach From Austria, joined Mar 2001, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8993 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 12):
Well, I've avoided flying OS to Vienna because of those old 767. I just don't think it's a comfortable ride. They may never be profitable unless they invest in a better product. The updated cabin, while improved, looks very retro. I loved the original A330 that OS used to fly to IAD. I don't understand why they sold those and kept the 767.

Interesting question, thanks.

In my opinion the OS management in the past was very shortsighted, especially as (before LH came) the board was always politically selected. Insiders told me, that the OS A330/340s had a larger value on the market than their B767/777s at this time. As OS was always struggling with their finances, this was a quicker way for this management to earn money.

Sorry for no more details, I am writing from my phone, which is very annoying  



Do228, Saab340, Twin-Otter, C212, Fokker50, AN24, ATR42, ATR72, Dash8-400Q, MD90, MD83, EMB120, A300, A343, B721, B743,.
User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7141 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 12):
The 767 has one thing that it excels at, 2-3-2 SK used to have 767s and I loved them, such comfortable rides

I am in total agreement, down here in Australia I always try and fly the Qantas 767's domestically. They are a lovely ride, similarly AC still fly many many 767's internationally. Along with the 330 they are my favourite plane and I hope they keep flying for years


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6808 posts, RR: 77
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 12):
The updated cabin, while improved, looks very retro.

Which cabin are you talking about? The refurbished 767 cabin with new seats even includes 777-style bins.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlinea36001 From Australia, joined Sep 2012, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6166 times:

Quoting nrt1011 (Reply 15):

Absolutely agree!! The 767 layout is IMO by far the most comfortable! And a great ride! Will miss them in the QF fleet once gone. I remember reading the OS Airbuses were leased and the 767's were owned or cheaper to lease so at the time it was farewell to the Airbuses. There was a thread ages ago about this but can't seem to pull it up, shame because it was a interesting read... 


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6138 times:

Quoting a36001 (Reply 17):
remember reading the OS Airbuses were leased and the 767's were owned or cheaper to lease so at the time it was farewell to the Airbuses.

The OS Airbus 340s/330s were leased, but the 767 and 777s were inherited from Lauda when OS bought them in the early 2000s.


User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4891 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
Which cabin are you talking about? The refurbished 767 cabin with new seats even includes 777-style bins.

The last time a flew on OS 767 was about 1.5 years ago. The cabin looked updated but very retro and basic. The PTVs and the programming were also pretty basic.


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4852 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 19):
The last time a flew on OS 767 was about 1.5 years ago. The cabin looked updated but very retro and basic. The PTVs and the programming were also pretty basic.

No, that is the original Cabin.

What we're talking about is a completely new cabin with new seats, AVOD, pivot bins, etc.

To most people it should be like flying on a brand new plane.


User currently offlinePanAmPaul From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 20):
What we're talking about is a completely new cabin with new seats, AVOD, pivot bins, etc.

To most people it should be like flying on a brand new plane.

With the investment in the new interiors, I think OS plans to keep the current planes around for a while longer.


User currently offlinenrt1011 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

LH ran their 747's up to 120,000 hours. Just shows what you can do with good maintenance. I wonder what the target is with 767's, I know they are an AC workhorse and again hope they have many more years in them.

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4787 times:

I have read once that OS might get some more 777s ? Is this still on the table ?

LH will place an order for long haul aircraft this year and this will probably also affect LX and OS. For now they decided to do the same as Condor did, improve the cabin and add winglets to fly the aircraft for another couple of years till the next generation of aircraft is available.

LH seems to have an interesting strategy with their older aircraft, on the one hand sell a few aircraft as long as you get some money for them (e.g. the A340s they have sold to the German goverment or the ones that have now ended up in Iran) but with most of their fleet fly them as long as possible (737s, 747s)



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4528 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 23):
I have read once that OS might get some more 777s ? Is this still on the table ?

I haven't heard anything to the contrary - if they make the black numbers, they are supposed to get four more 777-200ERs (IIRC the plan was two in 2014, one in '15, and one in '16, but that might have changed).



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 24):
I haven't heard anything to the contrary - if they make the black numbers, they are supposed to get four more 777-200ERs (IIRC the plan was two in 2014, one in '15, and one in '16, but that might have changed).

The December issue of AERO Intl features a little article stating that due to low morale, a lot of 777 pilots left OS for BOX. Are they short of crew on the type now, or better; won't they be with more 772s to come?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineDouglasyxz From Germany, joined Jan 2013, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 25):

The decision is not about crew-shortage or not, it is just about financial situation at OS. This has been stated quite a couple of times by top LH executives.

Joe Moser, Chief Pilot of Aerologic, recently stated they have a lot of potential aplicants for their 777 freighters. Thus, shouldn't be a decision making point to LH/OS fleet-planning.

I just wonder why a 20 year old 763 (OE-LAX) is being equipped with new seats in business and eco.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

The 789 would be a good 772 and 763 replacement in one body? A little less seats than a 772 but with the same range and more capacity then the 763.

User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4566 times:

Was very surprised to see OS brought up! The refurbished 767 is beautiful. No need for replacement. I suggest you take a more recent peak at the aircraft. I would post some pics but I'm on my iPhone and its a pain.

User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

Quoting Douglasyxz (Reply 26):
I just wonder why a 20 year old 763 (OE-LAX) is being equipped with new seats in business and eco.

They are well maintained and paid for. They still do a good job hauling people from VIE to their destinations. With the refurbishment, the hard product is on par as well. You can pay for a lot of fuel until you have paid off the 130 to 200 million dollars for a new-built Boeing 787 or Airbus A350!



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1789 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting Douglasyxz (Reply 26):
I just wonder why a 20 year old 763 (OE-LAX) is being equipped with new seats in business and eco.

Well, if OS target is to be back in the black before getting any new aircraft, then they better invest in what they have to remain attractive to paying passengers. Passengers don't know the aircraft is 20 y/o. What matters to them is security, comfort and service. If the aircraft is well maintained, there won't be any problems.



KEEP LOOKING UP as in Space Fan News
User currently onlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 797 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

G'day

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 29):
ou can pay for a lot of fuel until you have paid off the 130 to 200 million dollars for a new-built Boeing 787 or Airbus A350!

I guess the days when you could get a 787 for 130 million $ are likely a thing of the past       


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):
On the topic of the OS 767s, I believe LH is waiting for an outcome of the practicability of 787 and/or A350 in regular service and then decide accordingly.

Might this be a result of their being burned by committing to the A346 before giving the 77W a chance, and regretting it afterwards? Even though the manufacturers have gotten better at predicting performance, there is nothing like seeing how the plane actually performs-they can still surprise.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 31):
I guess the days when you could get a 787 for 130 million $ are likely a thing of the past

Well, a Boeing 787-8 lists at 206.6 million dollars, so when you work with an estimated discount of 35% (I went with a.net wisdom here), you are at approximately 134 million $.

[Edited 2013-02-12 10:56:29]


WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 32):
Might this be a result of their being burned by committing to the A346 before giving the 77W a chance, and regretting it afterwards? Even though the manufacturers have gotten better at predicting performance, there is nothing like seeing how the plane actually performs-they can still surprise.

I think this question deserves a thread for itself - if there isn't yet one out there - but I believe LH had their reasons to opt for the A346. Let's face it: It's a real workhorse, brings in huge loads of money and it does actually have its benifits compared to a 777 (not wanting to hijack this thread with details). All in all, it's a good plane for LH, and if it weren't, then why keep ordering A330s and 748s instead of the 777?
Who knows, maybe their LCAG 77Fs prove to be such good players in the game that they decide to order the 77X sooner than later. Time will tell.

I am very convinced that when it comes to sound, viable, long-term decisions, LH is one of the top players in the world. So I would be the last person to call them foolish not to have made up their mind on the 787/A350 yet.

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 33):
Well, a Boeing 787-8 lists at 206.6 million dollars, so when you work with an estimated discount of 35% (I went with a.net wisdom here), you are at approximately 134 million $.

Hahaha spoken like a true pilot. Use your thumb times pi, and you'll have the answer   



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineDouglasyxz From Germany, joined Jan 2013, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Folks, let's get back to the main topic of this thread instead of doing speculation about LH and their 346. That's another issue.

My thoughts about new seats for an old workhorse doesn't mean I've got a problem flying in an old plane, not at all. It does indeed indicate that OS's 763ER will keep on flying for a couple of years. And this is what this thread is about, replacement or not. The refurbishment of 763 goes along with LH's principle of flying its aircraft until worn out or no more suitable for the network.

To me the answer is obvious: The 763ER will remain for the time being and in a few years 777 fleet will see a little increase - if OS turns back into black. I can see LH waiting for real performance figures of 787 and 350 and then decide which way to go.


User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

Can anyone post photos of the new refurbished OS 767 cabin?

When will all OS 767 be refurbished?


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

Actually I could see a combo of 788 and 789 for OS, the 788 replacing the 763er and the 7889 replacing the 772, a little less capacity but a lot more efficiency.

User currently offlinea3xx900 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

Quoting skopsko (Reply 36):
Can anyone post photos of the new refurbished OS 767 cabin?

When will all OS 767 be refurbished?

Thanks, I was gonna ask   



Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 21):
With the investment in the new interiors, I think OS plans to keep the current planes around for a while longer.

I was curious so looked it up. Of the 6x 767s at OS, 3 are over 20 yrs old, and the other three are 12/13/14 years old. So how long does OS plan on keeping those birds for? Esp. L/N 393, 448 and 467. I would think refurb costs are non trivial, but I guess, as some have pointed out, if you ain't gonna get new planes and you want to stay competitive, you have to invest in better products.


Quoting skopsko (Reply 36):
Can anyone post photos of the new refurbished OS 767 cabin?

+1
Now, I am curious  


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

New Business:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7QuC5_dvfo

I can't find the new economy, but the basic thing is the complete new package from Heath with new walls, pivot bins, carpet and seats, and AVOD throughout.


User currently offlineDouglasyxz From Germany, joined Jan 2013, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

The business seats and the 2-1-2 configuration is similar to LX's fleet. I've been on their 340 a couple of times and really like config and seats in particular. Almost same equipment LH is introducing now on their 748.
With the experience of new interior not too many passengers will bother aircraft's age.


Can anyone give us an indication how competitive those comparatively old 767 are against current types?


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

Quoting Douglasyxz (Reply 41):
similar to LX's fleet

Apparently, most decisions for OS are being made at FRA these days, not in VIE.

I can hardly blame them...


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1789 posts, RR: 3
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Quoting Douglasyxz (Reply 42):
Apparently, most decisions for OS are being made at FRA

Actually, it happens at CGN.

[Edited 2013-02-14 03:17:18]


KEEP LOOKING UP as in Space Fan News
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 42):
Apparently, most decisions for OS are being made at FRA these days, not in VIE.
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 43):
Actually, it happens at CGN.

And they sure are made for the better. Any gamble on when OS is going black again? My bet is on FY2015.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

767: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/02/ga...efit-of-the-boeing-767-in-shannon/

777: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/01/ga...rsion-of-the-boeing-777-in-vienna/

Cabin pictures at the bottom of both sites!

Quoting skopsko (Reply 36):
When will all OS 767 be refurbished?

It was planned to have them refitted by May, but the FAA is requesting more than anticipated paperwork, so the 767 should be ready by September and the 777 by June.



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinea3xx900 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 45):
767: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/02/ga...efit-of-the-boeing-767-in-shannon/

777: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/01/ga...rsion-of-the-boeing-777-in-vienna/

Cabin pictures at the bottom of both sites!

Great links, thank you!



Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 34):
I think this question deserves a thread for itself - if there isn't yet one out there - but I believe LH had their reasons to opt for the A346. Let's face it: It's a real workhorse, brings in huge loads of money and it does actually have its benifits compared to a 777 (not wanting to hijack this thread with details). All in all, it's a good plane for LH, and if it weren't, then why keep ordering A330s and 748s instead of the 777?

In discussing the issue of LH delaying the decision until both the A350 and 787 are in service it is relevant to discuss LH's decisions in the past. I believe that they ordered the A346 because they already had the A343's and at the time it looked as though there would not be a lot of difference in performance between the A346 and the 77W. When the 77W actually entered service it proved to be much better than anyone expected, including Boeing, and hence it appears that LH might have regretted ordering the A346 so soon. But I fully understand why they did not order the 77W at all; they still need to get the return on investment for their A346's, and it costs a lot of money to add another type to the fleet. With this in mind, it makes complete sense to me that they will wait to get actual in-service figures for both the 787 and A350 before making a decision between them.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2730 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 40):
New Business:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7QuC..._dvfo
Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 45):
767: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/02/ga...efit-of-the-boeing-767-in-shannon/

777: http://www.red-blog.at/en/2013/01/ga...rsion-of-the-boeing-777-in-vienna/

Cabin pictures at the bottom of both sites!

Thanks, very nice indeed. Well done OS!!!


User currently offlineskopsko From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

The new cabins are really nice, but how about upgrading the engines? The newer engine models are much less noisy than what's on the OS 767 right now, and I imagine more efficient.

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 47):
In discussing the issue of LH delaying the decision until both the A350 and 787

According the chief 747 pilot of LH, LH will order new long haul planes third quarter of this year. I doubt they wait as long as both the 787 and A350 are in service. I think they got a pretty good idea how the 787-8 performs right now and how the 787-9 and -10 will perform. They fly the 747-8I right now which has similar engines and know how they perform as well.

The A350 has not flown yet but I believe they are in talks with Airbus and RR and now a lot of data as well. Nevertheless I believe LH has its mind set on the 787-10 as they have stated interested in that aircraft a couple of times and history shows that once LH has set its mind on an aircraft they will order it.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 46):

Thank you big time for the links!

Just one question: Is there really no First on OS longhaul??



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 51):
Just one question: Is there really no First on OS longhaul??

No, two-class only.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 47):
I believe that they ordered the A346 because they already had the A343's and at the time it looked as though there would not be a lot of difference in performance between the A346 and the 77W.

I'm not even sure if the 77W was already offered when they first ordered the A346, but the miraculous performance was surely not anticipated.



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6910 posts, RR: 46
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 50):
The A350 has not flown yet but I believe they are in talks with Airbus and RR and now a lot of data as well. Nevertheless I believe LH has its mind set on the 787-10 as they have stated interested in that aircraft a couple of times and history shows that once LH has set its mind on an aircraft they will order it.
Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 52):

I'm not even sure if the 77W was already offered when they first ordered the A346, but the miraculous performance was surely not anticipated.

I'm quite sure that LH knew that Boeing was going to do the 77W, even if it was not yet officially for sale. Airlines and aircraft manufacturers communicate all the time, and the manufacturers let the airlines know what is in the pipeline long before it is public knowledge. The point you make is the same I have been making is that the 77W surprised everybody by its superb performance. And this is why I believe LH might want to wait until the A350 is actually flying before making a decision between them; who knows, the A350 may repeat history. But maybe LH is sure enough that it won't happen again, and the 787-10 has no counterpart in the A350 line. I am merely speculating based on what I know and what I would do in the circumstances.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
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